Thread: Need a crash course to captaining at 75. For skirmish raid specificly.

Ok just gotten my captain to 75. My gear are good but i need a tutorial on what my roles in the skirmish raid. I usually start the fight by summoning my crit 75 banner. Then i run through my dps routine, shout, pressing attack and elendil. If anytime a rallying cry is up or warcry is up it get it up. Put some dps has blade brother, start will strength of will and to arms and inspire.

Problem is both my 2 initial raid feel like i'm hitting a brick wall. I did not have this problem with my champ. it use to be for me is to target the assist. zing zing and things go dead. Now i felt so useless, do i have to hang back and let other dps for me and just keep word of courage on ppl getting hit?. Or should i charge and do more dps, i prefer more healing and it traited for healing usually.

Please any experienced captain, i really like to bring my best to a raid and it felt that i'm doing something wrong here. Any input is really helpfull since the character guide are all outdated and old now.

for skirms i usualy go 5red 2blue, buff and kill, rc and wc whenever i can, bbrother and then just dps target.
traited red i can almost keep my group at full power, heals when they are needed.
you are not on a champ, your dps isnt the best, but ive seen people asking for dps, preferably cappy.
banner depends on group, hunter/champ group is war banner no doubt, if you got group full of squishies hope banner.

and remember to stop for a smoke before running of to the next point

You enhance the DPS.

Unless you're using Revealing mark, you need

Telling mark legacy
To-arms Duration.

You hit to-arms when you need it, sometimes there is no need to spam. Nasty LT out? To-arms it at the right time. (people need to wind up, target the LT etc) The captain is effective with co-ordination.

IF you're vocal, SAY "to-arms" so that your fellowship knows when to hit harder. Let people know what they are getting from you.

Then of course, you need heal and keep everyone healthy. And off-load stress from healers.

Can't really think of anything else outside these basics. I find the best captains knows the timings of how things work, so I don't miss an oathbreakers or I don't run out of power etc.

Sounds to me like you are doing it right. Prioritize buffing, DPS when you can, and hang back and heal when the healers are having trouble keeping up. There are a few additional things you can do to make things easier overall.

Bulk up your defensive stats and then off-tank or kite lieutenants, especially the Leadfoot Brutes. Those things are deadly but slow, and you can kite them all day with noble mark. Blood-rook is another good one to separate from the trash mobs and kite around.

Look out for fears and clear them with Muster courage, particularly when the main healer gets silenced. I have MC traited down to 24 seconds for this reason.

Hit In Harms Way just before the Frigid Squalls die. That will negate its AoE death explosion to your half of the raid.

I Skraid with 2 yellow traits so that I can always have a mark on the DPS target. It makes a difference. That also means that kick starts a CJ 10% of the time, and I have mine traited for a 30 second cooldown. Now, a 10% chance at a CJ every 30 seconds is nothing to rely on, but I have saved a raid with it.



I run 4 red, 2 yellow, one blue (Now for Wrath). That gives me the best of the benefits from 2 trait lines and I still restore a lot of power. It does mean my outgoing heals are reduced some and the healers have to work a little harder. But with close to 25% crit rate, I get off a lot of rallying cries regardless and healing has not been a problem. That also gives me room to trait Oathbreakers to take down the nasty LT's quickly.

Yeah, your most important job is keeping fellowship buffs up. You need fellowship-brother slotted. Keep War Cry going as soon as it cools down, keep Strength of Will up, and use To Arms as needed. And definitely keep your mark (Revealing or Telling) on the assist target.

Keeping Inspire and Rallying Cry ticking away constantly in the background will really make life easier for your healers, because they can focus much more on the tank.

As for WoC, I wouldn't use it on the tank(s) at all. You have to trust your healers to do their job. But if you see a non-tank pull aggro and start to go down, heal them up and (if they're squishy) pull the mob off. Having you to handle accidental pulls and help with AoE healing will make things go much smoother.

No matter what role you fill, you should always be in melee range DPS-ing. Captains can take quite a lot of punishment, and still do good DPS. All of your support jobs can be done just as well from the front lines as from the back, and many of your best skills are melee only. You have no inductions, high defenses, and almost entirely melee skills. No reason whatsoever to hang back.

Originally Posted by Philosomanic

As for WoC, I wouldn't use it on the tank(s) at all. You have to trust your healers to do their job. But if you see a non-tank pull aggro and start to go down, heal them up and (if they're squishy) pull the mob off. Having you to handle accidental pulls and help with AoE healing will make things go much smoother.

Um, no.

Sometimes we need to help heal the main tank as well. If the tank goes down, and you didn't throw a heal on it, then you just failed at what you're there to help with. It's part of the life of being an off healer.

when rally cry lights up, click it.

im an expert capn!


edit: but not an expert reader... seems you picked up on this subtle part of capn'in' already. mah bad.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Um, no.

Sometimes we need to help heal the main tank as well. If the tank goes down, and you didn't throw a heal on it, then you just failed at what you're there to help with. It's part of the life of being an off healer.

Yep. Helping ensure that tank and healer don't die is a high priority Captain task. Rezing them in particular when they do die is likewise a high priority task. Keeping DPS types who don't manage aggro well from dying is is also a task, but rather a lower priority one...

As to what to run, I run 5r 2b if I have faith in the healer's ability to do the job with lesser help from me. 5b 2r if there is not enough healing horsepower...

Originally Posted by faernnaoloth

Ok just gotten my captain to 75. My gear are good but i need a tutorial on what my roles in the skirmish raid. I usually start the fight by summoning my crit 75 banner. Then i run through my dps routine, shout, pressing attack and elendil. If anytime a rallying cry is up or warcry is up it get it up. Put some dps has blade brother, start will strength of will and to arms and inspire.

Problem is both my 2 initial raid feel like i'm hitting a brick wall. I did not have this problem with my champ. it use to be for me is to target the assist. zing zing and things go dead. Now i felt so useless, do i have to hang back and let other dps for me and just keep word of courage on ppl getting hit?. Or should i charge and do more dps, i prefer more healing and it traited for healing usually.

Please any experienced captain, i really like to bring my best to a raid and it felt that i'm doing something wrong here. Any input is really helpfull since the character guide are all outdated and old now.

Well I'm not sure what kind of Captain you are, as you didnt' specilfy - but if you are traited Hands of Healing this is what I believe your role should be.

1. Always keep your buffs up. If they wear during the raid, take the time to recast them. Use your Herald of Hope during mobile skirmishes to keep everyone's morale topped off. If you are in a stand-still skirmish you can fall back to your banner for some nice self-buffs on the side.

2. Shield Brother your tank and keep your HoTs up all the time. Your tank should always have Strenght of Will, Words of Courage and Inspire buffs on. Always.

3. Help your group kill stuff. Although the previous mentioned buffs are your priority, once they are taken care of you should deffinitely get in on the action and start using your damage rotations. Just remember you are a support class - and should be doing a mix of everything. That is the key to an effective Captain. You aren't there to fullfill any singular role, as doing so will just make you a lesser version of another, thus gimping your group instead of improving it.

4. Always use rally cry after something dies. It grants a nice AoE heal combined with a handy power restore (Now for Wrath is a must have trait) - so it is always useful no matter the situation.

5. The other stuff is situational. Remove fears when you can. If you trait Shield of the Dunedain (a very nice skill) don't forget to use it if someone gets in trouble. It can save a potential wipe. Same with In Harm's Way - and don't be afraid to throw out a few extra Words of Courage to someone if they look like they are about to die. Also dont' forget to use withdrawal if your heals draw you un-wanted aggro. It can be a life saver. Same with Make Haste - don't be afraid to toot your horn and haul ###

Also don't forget to raise people when they die, unless they are problem players - like DPS with #### defense that don't know how to avoid drawing threat all the time ect... If that's the case probably best just to leave them dead until the fight is over, as they will just distract you from more important matters and would only die again if they got a raise anyhow. (This is true of a lot of hunters - who for some reason think they are tanks) Sometimes being a leader means knowing when to cut off an arm to save the body.

If you aren't a Hands of Healing Captain though, probably just wanna ignore all of this.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

....

2. Shield Brother your tank and keep your HoTs up all the time. Your tank should always have Strenght of Will, Words of Courage and Inspire buffs on. Always.

....

I got to disagree here.

Shield Brothering the tank is not always the best move. If the tank is a Warden or Champ, then yes, use Shield Brother on them. They need the defensive help. (I usual give them the parry buff as well, unless they complain about it. Then after they die and come back I rebuff them with the parry buff. )

But if I have a decent Guardian tanking, then I put Blade Brother on a Champ, Burglar, or Hunter. The increased DPS means faster mob deaths, more rallying cries, more healing from Revealing Mark, etc., and life is good.

sorry, The Captain is too versatile for me to tell you exactly what to do.

I do urge you to forget about your champ's DPS, your Captain will never come close even if we live to see the Dagor Dagorath. Focus on it and it will just frustrate you till you quit.

Most of the advise above is fairly sound, but as a rule of thumb:

look at your group
spot the weakness
fill the gap

that in short is what it is all about.

Lots of squishies? help with offtanking
Weak tank/healer, help with healing.
lack of DPS or nothing better to do? buff DPS


And don't be afraid to retrait if the group seems to need it.

I'm not sure why I'm such a busy captain in skirmishes...maybe I'm doing it wrong. *shrug*

Pre-battle: buff, buff, buff...ALL of them, soldiers and pets too.

During battles...check for where to put marks. It may not be best to put telling on the focus-fire mob. You might want to put Revealing on a lieutenant that has been pulled aside so the off tank doesn't need tending, or perhaps *you* are the off tank and you want to keep something on you with Noble Mark.

Watch for mobs breaking free and hitting main healers, and pull those off and pull them back to the melee piles for tanks or champs to pick up. If ranged mobs are doing too much damage, get their aggro and either line of sight them in or go out and keep them busy.

Spot heal where you can, especially the healers. They forget to heal themselves.

Watch folks for curable debuffs and call them out. Not everyone pays attention to know that they have a wound that is making healers work too hard, or something that has a timer running with a bad end effect. Plus, you'll see those fears and there is nothing so lovely as watching up to 5 fear debuffs go poof as you wave your arm.

Keep your shield brother skills working to best advantage. Use the melee heal skills.

One thing you can really help with is keeping an eye on any NPC's the group is guarding or escorting. They are pretty tough, and they don't often need a main healer's attention, especially if you keep WoC running pretty well on them. However, if they get in trouble, point it out to the main healers so the NPC can get topped off.

Put a quick Words of Courage on the healers just before mobs come in, then stand next to the tank. You should pull most stuff that would normally target a lighter armoured healer, and you can get them rounded up for the tank to collect. If lore-masters or hunters are rooting or trapping mobs, throw Words of Courage on the LRM or hunter as they do the trap/root--that should pull the attention from any mobs not caught, and get the trapped/rooted mobs attention off the other players so when the traps/roots break the lighter armoured character doesn't get mobbed.

If you are up doing melee, get BEHIND the mobs as much as possible. Take as little damage as you can so your morale pool is there for healing if you need it. Help out by reminding others to get behind the mobs.

Think as to whether or not to use your rezzes--t's not automatic. While in general the group will want to try and rez folks to keep them from getting the skirmish mark penalty, sometimes it's better to wait for the group to be out of combat and let someone with an on-demand rez bring folks up and save the combat rezzes for boss fights. Talk to your group about how rezzes will be handled prior to starting.

Remember to re-buff rezzed folks asap.

If your group is doing a skirmish where everyone needs to move to different points, use "Make Haste" to get folks to the rally point faster.

Honestly, I feel like skirmishes are busier for a captain than "normal" raids.

Originally Posted by SGWB

I got to disagree here.

Shield Brothering the tank is not always the best move. If the tank is a Warden or Champ, then yes, use Shield Brother on them. They need the defensive help. (I usual give them the parry buff as well, unless they complain about it. Then after they die and come back I rebuff them with the parry buff. )

But if I have a decent Guardian tanking, then I put Blade Brother on a Champ, Burglar, or Hunter. The increased DPS means faster mob deaths, more rallying cries, more healing from Revealing Mark, etc., and life is good.

My post was made in reference to Hands of Healing Captains only, and a Healing captain in my opinion has no business using Blade Brother on a champion and causing the tank to struggle more than he/she should be having to. So no it doesn't make life good. All it does is make the tank take more damage, need more healing, putting more pressure on the group as a whole all for a little bit more damage.

There is no point in becoming a Hands of Healing Captain if you aren't going to use your HoTs and Heals. It's just sensless, so I disagree with your disagreement

Originally Posted by Jeremi

My post was made in reference to Hands of Healing Captains only, and a Healing captain in my opinion has no business using Blade Brother on a champion and causing the tank to struggle more than he/she should be having to. So no it doesn't make life good. All it does is make the tank take more damage, need more healing, putting more pressure on the group as a whole all for a little bit more damage.

There is no point in becoming a Hands of Healing Captain if you aren't going to use your HoTs and Heals. It's just sensless, so I disagree with your disagreement

If I'm not the tank myself, my default for all existing content is blade brother (with fellowship brother of course), regardless of how I'm personally traited, so I'm with SWGB. IF the tank is having trouble, sure, +20% incoming healing is huge, and I'd switch to SB. But, well, the tank isn't usually having trouble, particularly in T1 skirmish raids. The extra direct DPS (from to arms/SOW(BB)) is good, as is the power over time. Things dying faster is rather like damage prevented, so think of it as healing At the very least, you should be doing blade brother through the trash pulls, and use Shield Brother for the boss only. As a compromise, you could target blade brother at the tank rather than at a champ, which helps the tanks DPS(and hence aggro), and gives him the full HOT and POT...

In the new release 5 Isengard instances that may change of course. May need to go all out to keep tank up, and Shield Brother seems like the way to go.

OP, sounds like you're doing it right. You're a support class so your main contributions are going to be indirect. Since you were a champion, when looking at DPS don't measure your Captain's worth by the damage your halberd deals, but by that value + the extra damage everybody else's weapons deal because of you. Your heals and other buffs are very important, but it sounds like you've got that down.


To the disagreement in the last few replies:

"Mo' DPS i-i-is mo' betta'!" as I whimsically imagine Bobby Boucher Jr. said.

Definitely, when you don't need extra healing, when the tank is always being topped off by the main healer, there's no reason to spend your buffs on upping his healing when they could be funneled into something you can't have too much of, like group DPS.

Having said that, I think I can see what Jeremi is saying--that a Hands of Healing captain should be using one of the brother skills that helps the tank stay alive. If you chose Hands of Healing because the tank was going to need some more heals (thats why I choose HoH), you're probably going to need to put Shield brother or something on the tank too. I'm all about extra healing when it's needed and I try, and maybe Jeremi tries, to choose HoH when its going to be needed.

Just a query for folks replying...don't you all find that there are about a gajillion herbalists along on these ventures? I'm finding that HoH is rarely needed. There was this one time we had no main healers, just me as a captain, and I went HoH--however, with all the little herbalists, we did a pretty good job of keeping folks alive (although we stayed away from things like some of the Mirkwood skirmishes, etc.). I primarily looked for someone taking spike damage and then hit Words of Courage and/or Shield of the Dunedain. Otherwise, I was able to get in the mosh pit and have fun.

I just mention it in case the OP wants to get out of HoH--it may help you feel more productive to try a different trait line. *Needing* to run HoH in skirmishes should be a situational.

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

If I'm not the tank myself, my default for all existing content is blade brother (with fellowship brother of course), regardless of how I'm personally traited, so I'm with SWGB. IF the tank is having trouble, sure, +20% incoming healing is huge, and I'd switch to SB. But, well, the tank isn't usually having trouble, particularly in T1 skirmish raids. The extra direct DPS (from to arms/SOW(BB)) is good, as is the power over time. Things dying faster is rather like damage prevented, so think of it as healing At the very least, you should be doing blade brother through the trash pulls, and use Shield Brother for the boss only. As a compromise, you could target blade brother at the tank rather than at a champ, which helps the tanks DPS(and hence aggro), and gives him the full HOT and POT...

In the new release 5 Isengard instances that may change of course. May need to go all out to keep tank up, and Shield Brother seems like the way to go.

Not in my opinion.

When in a raid environment you should be utilizing your strengths, not letting them go to waste. Hands of Healing Captains should never use blade brother in a raid in my opinion. If you want to use Blade Brother and not not keep your HoTs and heals going then you should silmply retrait to Lead the Charge, else you are basically wasting a lot of your character's potential.

Besides, so what if the tank doesn't need the extra healing. If anything it will allow the ministrel to go into war speech - and that will probably add more DPS to the group than you choosing to use Blade Brother instead of what you're actually good at, heals.

Bottom line is this. HoH Captains are Healers. That is what they are good at. Being a HoH Captain and not using your heals makes no sense on it's face. If you wanna focus on DPS and use Blade Brother go Lead the Charge. That should just be common sense. Just because we are a support class doesn't mean we don't still have a focused role that our traits and legacies should reflect in the way we play.

But again, this is my opinion. If you wanna roll a Healing Captain but focus on DPS - be my guest. It makes no sense to me, but it's your captain

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Not in my opinion.

When in a raid environment you should be utilizing your strengths, not letting them go to waste. Hands of Healing Captains should never use blade brother in a raid in my opinion. If you want to use Blade Brother and not not keep your HoTs and heals going then you should silmply retrait to Lead the Charge, else you are basically wasting a lot of your character's potential.

But again, this is my opinion. If you wanna roll a Healing Captain but focus on DPS - be my guest. It makes no sense to me, but it's your captain

The skirmish raids I've been have all been kin runs, and all literally face-rolls. They are only "raids" in that 12 folks are along. Perhaps your experience with T1 skirmish raids has been different? I've never seen a hint of real peril in them. Under those circumstances, traiting HoH, unless you are main healing, is, IMHO, an utter waste. Shield Brother is likewise wasteful. Traiting LtC and going Blade Brother is the way to go. Now if you have a really soft tank and inadequate healing along, sure, I can see it. But haven't seen that yet in the skirmish raids I've participated in.

Furthermore, even if my Captain is main healing and traited HoH, which I've done for GB-Thadur, I use blade brother for all trash, because, well, it is pretty easy stuff and there is no point. Until the final boss, Shield Brother is vast overkill.

I don't know what "roll a Healing Captain" means, but I prefer to trait my Captain and use my skills as circumstances dictate. And when things are going along easily, Blade Brother >>>>> Shield Brother.

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

The skirmish raids I've been have all been kin runs, and all literally face-rolls. They are only "raids" in that 12 folks are along. Perhaps your experience with T1 skirmish raids has been different? I've never seen a hint of real peril in them. Under those circumstances, traiting HoH, unless you are main healing, is, IMHO, an utter waste. Shield Brother is likewise wasteful. Traiting LtC and going Blade Brother is the way to go. Now if you have a really soft tank and inadequate healing along, sure, I can see it. But haven't seen that yet in the skirmish raids I've participated in.

Furthermore, even if my Captain is main healing and traited HoH, which I've done for GB-Thadur, I use blade brother for all trash, because, well, it is pretty easy stuff and there is no point. Until the final boss, Shield Brother is vast overkill.

I don't know what "roll a Healing Captain" means, but I prefer to trait my Captain and use my skills as circumstances dictate. And when things are going along easily, Blade Brother >>>>> Shield Brother.

Well I disagree, but no use in my continuing to argue about it. If you wanna trait HoH and use Blade Brother and concentrate on DPS be my guest. I think it's dumb, but you can play your captain as you like. I certainly don't have a monopoly on Captains and just cause I don't agree with something doens't mean you can't or shouldn't do it

I don't quite understand the argument. When I run a skirmish with my captain, I am healing all the time, no matter what build I'm in or what x-brother skill I'm using. If I'm in HoH, and have someone blade-brothered, I'm still going to use Words of Courage, Rallying Cry, Valiant Strike, and Inspire (all of which are boosted by those HoH traits). Blade Brother makes enemies die faster, leading to more Rallying Cries, and a shorter Valiant Strike Cooldown.

On the other hand, if you're in a situation where you want to handle more of the main healing duties, why not shield-brother the tank? There are a ton of ways for a captain to get the job done.

The main advantage to running with a LtC build is that I personally do more dps, but I'd probably use the same general healing strategy.

Originally Posted by Lupini

Just a query for folks replying...don't you all find that there are about a gajillion herbalists along on these ventures? I'm finding that HoH is rarely needed. There was this one time we had no main healers, just me as a captain, and I went HoH--however, with all the little herbalists, we did a pretty good job of keeping folks alive (although we stayed away from things like some of the Mirkwood skirmishes, etc.). I primarily looked for someone taking spike damage and then hit Words of Courage and/or Shield of the Dunedain. Otherwise, I was able to get in the mosh pit and have fun.

I just mention it in case the OP wants to get out of HoH--it may help you feel more productive to try a different trait line. *Needing* to run HoH in skirmishes should be a situational.

I feel the same way. I was doing battle in the tower with only 1 hearler, an RK, besides my self. He got locked out on the final fight so I healed it myself with a dps cappy and no one died. Not sure how many herbalists we had but it was a sinch.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

. If anything it will allow the ministrel to go into war speech

*Mini's switching between heals and war speech...
My memory is kind of vague on that but didn't they discourage flipping between heals and dps in some way, cd, transition time, etc. I remember that being an OP issue in the moors a year ago that I though was delt with. Any mini's over here can jog my memory? Doesn't really matter, just bothers me I can't remember.

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

I don't quite understand the argument. When I run a skirmish with my captain, I am healing all the time, no matter what build I'm in or what x-brother skill I'm using. If I'm in HoH, and have someone blade-brothered, I'm still going to use Words of Courage, Rallying Cry, Valiant Strike, and Inspire (all of which are boosted by those HoH traits). Blade Brother makes enemies die faster, leading to more Rallying Cries, and a shorter Valiant Strike Cooldown.

On the other hand, if you're in a situation where you want to handle more of the main healing duties, why not shield-brother the tank? There are a ton of ways for a captain to get the job done.

The main advantage to running with a LtC build is that I personally do more dps, but I'd probably use the same general healing strategy.

My point is you are severely gimping your healing by using Blade Brother.

I have done extensive tests on this and Shield Brother is by far the most effective tool we have for healing. Hands down.

Not only do you lose acces to your most effective HoT, Inspire - but your tank loses extra defensive bonuses and a 20% increase to overall healing on him. I don't know why this is a difficult argument to grasp. It's pretty clear and extremely easy to understand.

Using Blade Brother as a HoH Captain gimps your healing, weakens your tank - and just clashes overall with the trait line. You can get away with it on easier tier1 content perhaps and not notice much of a difference, but if you are doing the more difficult stuff your tank absolutely will notice a difference and it will cause him to struggle far more than he/she should be having too.

I also doubt using blade brother on someone as a HoH Captain will causes things to die so much faster and make Rally Cries so much more abundant. This seems a very dubious claim at best.

My point is simple. You are most effective as a HoH Captain when you are using Shield Brother. If you want to use Blade Brother it makes much more sense to simply play Lead The Charge and put DPS support as you focus, rather Healing.

Originally Posted by Armitas

*Mini's switching between heals and war speech...
My memory is kind of vague on that but didn't they discourage flipping between heals and dps in some way, cd, transition time, etc. I remember that being an OP issue in the moors a year ago that I though was delt with. Any mini's over here can jog my memory? Doesn't really matter, just bothers me I can't remember.

Nah

Many times when I do dungeons with friends the Ministrel simply goes into War Speech and concentrates on DPS then switches back to healing on the more difficult boss encounters. It's very simple to do and as I pointed out in my earlier posts, would add more to the DPS of your group to have you simply handle the healing on the tank during easy phases and the Mini go into warspeech than the buffs from your Blade Brother would supply to another player.

Despite the argument in the previous posts regarding shield or blade brother that is one thing I think you should always do as a cappy. Watch the stats and watch the other players. At level 75 you have the option to either assist the tank, assist the dps or assist the healer. If your tank is doing just fine but you notice your healer or your group is having power issues, then switch to that role. If power and health is fine, then blade brother whoever you think is doing the most dps and finish that raid faster.

As a cappy, your role is a dynamic one... Meet the need whatever it is, no matter how you are traited. This seems especially true for skirmish raids where more so than other raids you might be required to off-tank and off-heal as needed depending on the spawned mob or Lt.

M.

Originally Posted by Meagh

Despite the argument in the previous posts regarding shield or blade brother that is one thing I think you should always do as a cappy. Watch the stats and watch the other players. At level 75 you have the option to either assist the tank, assist the dps or assist the healer. If your tank is doing just fine but you notice your healer or your group is having power issues, then switch to that role. If power and health is fine, then blade brother whoever you think is doing the most dps and finish that raid faster.

As a cappy, your role is a dynamic one... Meet the need whatever it is, no matter how you are traited. This seems especially true for skirmish raids where more so than other raids you might be required to off-tank and off-heal as needed depending on the spawned mob or Lt.

M.

I disagree. I believe you should stay focused on your stength, and that will "meet the need whatever it is" better than giving up your strength to focus on a lesser ability you are not traited or legacied for.

True, Captains do support a group in many different ways - but in my mind that should never compromise your main support focus. Asking a HoH captain for example to go tank something because the raid needs an off-tank isn't going to improve your group at all. The only thing that will happen is the HoH Captain will get his ### kicked and the raid will lose out on a lot of good healing. It would be much more intelligent to ask someone else to off-tank and let the HoH captain HEAL the off-tank.

As I said earlier, maybe on easy stuff you can get away with this "just do everything as needed approach" with a Captain, but on the more difficult stuff, not going to work. You will need to specialize, gear and trait accordingly to master your particular area of support.

Now I know there is this growing belief among Captains these days that rapid Brother Skill swapping is somehow very dynamic to use your word and the new key to success - but I find it only mildly effective in a very few situations - and always with substantial risks. I'm just not impressed with it as a strategy. But then again this is just my opinion

Most of the time, if there's a problem in skirm raids it's because of some OP lieutenant.

Like those stupid flames that charge up and explode, one-shotting all your healers. Or the hawk-eyed harrier who just randomly shoots at #### and if she happens to shoot healers too much they'll eat it.

To that end I do recommend blade bro and popping war-cry with time of need if it's not up... Burn that sucker DOWN.

Only time I really worry about shield bro is when you have a poor tank who's trying to pick up every mob and lieutenant and is just sitting there getting whacked instead of kiting. Most of the time I don't feel like the tanks take toooo much damage.

Although to be fair if you have a warden or champ trying to tank yea i'd probably use shield bro... Unless it's a really good warden with like 16k HP.. Right now they seem to need it.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

....
As I said earlier, maybe on easy stuff you can get away with this "just do everything as needed approach" with a Captain, but on the more difficult stuff, not going to work. You will need to specialize, gear and trait accordingly to master your particular area of support.
....

I am not being sarcastic with this post.

I have looked at your my lotro page. I don't understand your build and why you are stressing will and fate so much. With only 838 might, your outgoing healing is probably pretty low. You mention in multiple threads about challenges that only an HoH captain traited this way or that can tackle. But I can't understand why you are built the way you are if you are stressing HoH so much..

I agree that for tough content that requires lots of off-healing you should gear and trait for it. Although, pugged skirmish raids, outside of the Icy Crevasse, just don't qualify as tough content in my opinion. So what tough content are you running that requires HoH?

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I disagree...As I said earlier, maybe on easy stuff you can get away with this "just do everything as needed approach" with a Captain, but on the more difficult stuff, not going to work. You will need to specialize, gear and trait accordingly to master your particular area of support.

You are welcome to disagree I do however agree with a bit of what you are saying... of course you need to specialize, gear and trait toward your particular area of support and of course i agree you should play toward your strengths. However, specializing and gearing for an expected role should not rule out the possibility to adapting toward a need. If you trait HoH, how useful are you going to be by casting song or shield brother if the minnie is keeping everyone near full health and not having problems? Better at that point to switch over to something useful instead of just making your HoTs go to waste. Also.. why can't you offtank and heal at the same time? Most of your heals are group-wide... not even traited for tanking I have 15% parry and better mitigations than most...

In the end, no matter how you are traited you're adding nothing toward your group by not using your abilities where they are needed. Surely you don't cast revealing mark at every target? Use your skills based on the situation on the ground...This is good advice for all content.. 'easy' and difficult (though there is little of that atm). - M.

ps ... Further, i'd even argue that if you're traited HoH, to play toward your strengths, you should shouldn't be using shield brother... you should use song brother to buff your own heals since u get the full benefit by traiting your legendary trait. this is probably another discussion though...

Originally Posted by SGWB

I am not being sarcastic with this post.

I have looked at your my lotro page. I don't understand your build and why you are stressing will and fate so much. With only 838 might, your outgoing healing is probably pretty low. You mention in multiple threads about challenges that only an HoH captain traited this way or that can tackle. But I can't understand why you are built the way you are if you are stressing HoH so much..

I agree that for tough content that requires lots of off-healing you should gear and trait for it. Although, pugged skirmish raids, outside of the Icy Crevasse, just don't qualify as tough content in my opinion. So what tough content are you running that requires HoH?

I don't stress will, nor is it one of my highest stats.

Fate is good because it increases your critical raiting and gives you ICPR and ICMR. It was one of our main stats before RoI, and remains so IMHO. I've done mutliple tests on this subject and my HoH Captain always performs much better with a healthy mix of Fate and Might than he does when I just focus on Might.

Yes, the extra offense and outgoing healing a might-heavy build gives is nice - but it doesn't make up for you what you lose in Crit and ICPR in my opinion, which is arguable more powerful for your heals in the long run.

When I say tougher content, I am most usually referring to healing tier3 content, such as skirmishes and the like. I've managed to heal some tier II content, such as Halls of Night, Inn of the Forsaken ect... with all might builds - but it was noticably more difficult to do, where as when I did it in my current build it was much easier, for both me and the tank.

The problem with all might builds is you have to rely on using Song Brother to keep your power up, which gimps your healing significantly, putting a lot more stress on your tank. I'll admit losing the extra offense does suck, but in my mind - it's a needed sacrafice for healing captains if they want to be able to heal the hard stuff without running dry on power.

ps ... Further, i'd even argue that if you're traited HoH, to play toward your strengths, you should shouldn't be using shield brother... you should use song brother to buff your own heals since u get the full benefit by traiting your legendary trait. this is probably another discussion though...

This I disagree with more than anything else I've read.

While I won't argue Song Brother does give you more benefits as a Hands of Healing Captain, the skill itself actually weakens your healing, weakens the tank, and strips you of your most effective HoT. While it's a powerful skill to use for power - it pales in comparison to Shield Brother as a healing tool - so if you are trying to up your game as a healer, I would stay far far away from this skill.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I don't stress will, nor is it one of my highest stats.

Fate is good because it increases your critical raiting and gives you ICPR and ICMR. It was one of our main stats before RoI, and remains so IMHO. I've done mutliple tests on this subject and my HoH Captain always performs much better with a healthy mix of Fate and Might than he does when I just focus on Might.

Yes, the extra offense and outgoing healing a might-heavy build gives is nice - but it doesn't make up for you what you lose in Crit and ICPR in my opinion, which is arguable more powerful for your heals in the long run.

When I say tougher content, I am most usually referring to healing tier3 content, such as skirmishes and the like. I've managed to heal some tier II content, such as Halls of Night, Inn of the Forsaken ect... with all might builds - but it was noticably more difficult to do, where as when I did it in my current build it was much easier, for both me and the tank.

The problem with all might builds is you have to rely on using Song Brother to keep your power up, which gimps your healing significantly, putting a lot more stress on your tank. I'll admit losing the extra offense does suck, but in my mind - it's a needed sacrafice for healing captains if they want to be able to heal the hard stuff without running dry on power.

Blade Brother keeps your power up too. And we aren't talking about tough content, but Tier 1 skirmish raids. Most of them are easy. My raid wants one thing: MOAR dps! Use the Blade Brother buff when you're fighting trash.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

This I disagree with more than anything else I've read.

While I won't argue Song Brother does give you more benefits as a Hands of Healing Captain, the skill itself actually weakens your healing, weakens the tank, and strips you of your most effective HoT. While it's a powerful skill to use for power - it pales in comparison to Shield Brother as a healing tool - so if you are trying to up your game as a healer, I would stay far far away from this skill.

I agree. Shield Brother is the best for single target healing. I'd only use Song Brother for AoE heal situations.

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

Blade Brother keeps your power up too. And we aren't talking about tough content, but Tier 1 skirmish raids. Most of them are easy. My raid wants one thing: MOAR dps! Use the Blade Brother buff when you're fighting trash.

That's all good and fine. If you are doing something easy and want to maximize your dps so you can get it over with quickly as possible since survivial isn't an issue I can understand that point of view. But that brings me back to my earlier point. If you are going to use Blade Brother for more DPS, may as well just trait Lead the Charge so you can excel at it.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I don't stress will, nor is it one of my highest stats.

Fate is good because it increases your critical raiting and gives you ICPR and ICMR. It was one of our main stats before RoI, and remains so IMHO. I've done mutliple tests on this subject and my HoH Captain always performs much better with a healthy mix of Fate and Might than he does when I just focus on Might.

Yes, the extra offense and outgoing healing a might-heavy build gives is nice - but it doesn't make up for you what you lose in Crit and ICPR in my opinion, which is arguable more powerful for your heals in the long run.

When I say tougher content, I am most usually referring to healing tier3 content, such as skirmishes and the like. I've managed to heal some tier II content, such as Halls of Night, Inn of the Forsaken ect... with all might builds - but it was noticably more difficult to do, where as when I did it in my current build it was much easier, for both me and the tank.

The problem with all might builds is you have to rely on using Song Brother to keep your power up, which gimps your healing significantly, putting a lot more stress on your tank. I'll admit losing the extra offense does suck, but in my mind - it's a needed sacrafice for healing captains if they want to be able to heal the hard stuff without running dry on power.

I'll agree with you that stacking might at the expense of everything else is detrimental. If you look at my build You would see that I'm much more balanced that most end-game captains. But it seems like you are sacrificing a lot for raw fate when some ICPR bracelets and +crit earrings and relics can get you the same stats AND more might for outgoing healing.

Originally Posted by SGWB

I'll agree with you that stacking might at the expense of everything else is detrimental. If you look at my build You would see that I'm much more balanced that most end-game captains. But it seems like you are sacrificing a lot for raw fate when some ICPR bracelets and +crit earrings and relics can get you the same stats AND more might for outgoing healing.

I am doing it for the Crit also SGWB. I love my critical heals, so that is why you see me currently focusing on raw fate, because I get both ICPR and Critical Rating from it, though if you have some suggestions for some better earrings that would serve my cause better i'm all ears... or eyes I mean. I would love to upgrade them.

Right now I have no power issues, I have ICPR coming out the ### - but I am planning to update my relics very soon to increase my critical rating so I plan on losing a lot. I have all my tier 7s saved up, I just need the shards. So I'll be there soon. I also agree if ICPR is all you are after Fate is not the best option - but if you are after Crit and ICPR, as I am - raw Fate looks to be the way to go.

Something not mentioned so far is gear - I tend to run with my kinship and we have plenty of DPS. By running 4 pieces of the Helegrod epic set and Rallying Cry cool down legacy for the 6 sec RC I find that I am pumping out plenty of heals and power. Admittedly it is less per heal than my Lvl 75 Raid gear but popping out a RC basically every 6 seconds lets the healers go DPS during pretty much the entire skirmish and possibly, depending on how the group is doing, they can go all the way. They find that quite fun - which is the point after all.

I would definitely agree that in combat rez is important - sometimes things go wrong (AoE damage on people who are not ready for it, devastate on a random aggro etc...) that is something you can really do to help people out (saves them running back to the fight). Otherwise, it is all good. Just make sure you have a banner down - what ever you think you should be running, use it. If you are not running the Oathbreaker herald and have a banner traited, not having it planted is doing nobody any good

good luck!

Originally Posted by faernnaoloth

Ok just gotten my captain to 75. My gear are good but i need a tutorial on what my roles in the skirmish raid. I usually start the fight by summoning my crit 75 banner. Then i run through my dps routine, shout, pressing attack and elendil. If anytime a rallying cry is up or warcry is up it get it up. Put some dps has blade brother, start will strength of will and to arms and inspire.

Problem is both my 2 initial raid feel like i'm hitting a brick wall. I did not have this problem with my champ. it use to be for me is to target the assist. zing zing and things go dead. Now i felt so useless, do i have to hang back and let other dps for me and just keep word of courage on ppl getting hit?. Or should i charge and do more dps, i prefer more healing and it traited for healing usually.

Please any experienced captain, i really like to bring my best to a raid and it felt that i'm doing something wrong here. Any input is really helpfull since the character guide are all outdated and old now.

Originally Posted by Thoronthor

look at your group
spot the weakness
fill the gap

that in short is what it is all about.

total agree here