Thread: What Advanced means for you?

Our class is classified as advanced
What "Advanced" means to you?

For me means a think difficult to learn and difficult to handle, but that can reach a higher cap than the others.

LMs more difficult to learn and handle than other classes? Sure. Higher cap...?

And for you, what advanced means?

Require some brain matter to operate.

A class that is harder to learn how to play well but once learned is infinitely more satisfying that is how i understood the term advance when i choose the LM I also assumed that a advanced class would have many more skills to learn than a basic class and judging by my rather full quick slots i was not disappointed on that score

Originally Posted by Advanced

Our class is classified as advanced
What "Advanced" means to you?

For me means a think difficult to learn and difficult to handle, but that can reach a higher cap than the others.

LMs more difficult to learn and handle than other classes? Sure. Higher cap...?

And for you, what advanced means?

Agreed and agreed. This is why my LM is still my main. He can solo some stuff my other classes can only dream of.

A class that takes a little bit longer than the others for it to really start to shine.

Means you have to have moar then 1 braincell to play it badly. You need around 10 to play it decently, and 20 for uber leetness.

Originally Posted by treef

Means you have to have moar then 1 braincell to play it badly. You need around 10 to play it decently, and 20 for uber leetness.

qft


LM class needs a bit of an effort to learn and read up on the skills and all the techniques....it not about using a few skills.....its about a LOT more....it takes a good player to make a good LM.....

Mental check list as an LM in a fellowship in a fight:

- Who needs power?
- Is the minstrel lagging a little behind healing/ minstrel losing morale due to being attacked
- Weakness of enemy, which debuff to use. It used to be worse with 3 warding knowledge circles.
- Which pet to use
- Are the debuffs applied?
- Countdown till debuff wears off to apply
- Any incoming mobs, root
- Mezz mob with BF
- Check stun immunity rotation, who needs the buff applied
- Pet aggro, is it doing something it shouldn't
- Who has disease/wound debuff? (Lost temple is pain)
- Check moves and pray you dont go against a fire immune enemy, means we cant use half our damaging skills
- Damage

^ what I consider advanced. It's not just spamming buttons, you have to weigh in at the moment and decide right there and then what's the next course of action to take. The role of an LM is not straightforward. It's like being a chess master.

What does Class Difficulty: Advanced mean for me?

1) There are more tactics, responses, and strategies to use, and must use for success.
2) Your actions are not specialized into one or two specific tasks during a fight, but rather numerous and highly differing tasks that may or may not show up during a fight.
3) You can't bull through problems, but rather must out think them.
4) Many possible tactics are counter-intuitive to normal play-style.
5) Memorization of large numbers of skills and their results is a must.

There is nothing about the class being stronger then others, because its labeled as an Advanced Class. In fact, its likely that a good number of players will play it much less efficiently and thus being weaker then most other classes. I know that I don't take full advantage of what a LM can do, as I honestly forget certain tactics and skills when in a fight. Especially in MoNF mode, where I have a tendency to ignore our CC despite that only Blinding Flash is nerfed but not our Roots.

At the moment, I really hope the Devs are working on our Pet's Damage.

Originally Posted by Advanced

For me means a think difficult to learn and difficult to handle, but that can reach a higher cap than the others.

Don't be fooled guys. This is yet another thread by the OP pushing the agenda of the second half of this sentence. It is clear from previous form that it is his ONLY purpose in starting the thread.

Give it up, Advanced, it isn't going to happen. That may be your view of the class, but it isn't that of most of the players.

It certainly isn't the developers' view, and your constant disingenuous attempts to start "discussions" on the subject isn't going to change that.

imo, advanced means exactly one thing - it is a class that is difficult for new players to solo level up. It does not mean that the class is any more difficult to play well at end game and it certainly doesn't mean that it should be stronger than other classes.

I think people get a little bit of a big head about how "hard" LMs are to play at end game. sure, to play a LM well you need to do a lot of things. but that's true of any class. Take hunters, which are a "simple" class. They certainly are easier to solo than LMs because they've got bigger burst damage and can burn stuff down quickly in solo situations. But it's certainly NOT easy to play a hunter well at end game - i know, because i see a lot of bad hunters . To be able to sustain excellent damage while maintaining the correct balance of power and threat is not something a lot of people seem to be able to do. And then add potential support cc/poison curing roles on top of that.

Sure, there's a lot of different things a lore-master *can* do, but in most fights you aren't required to do most of those things. and most of them become second nature anyway. A good chunk of the time we'll be doing our super complicated DPS "rotation" of cycling between burning embers and staff strike.

Anyway, LMs certainly have a pretty unique role, and lots of different things to do but i don't think it's fundmentally more difficult to play well than other classes.

Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ

imo, advanced means exactly one thing - it is a class that is difficult for new players to solo level up. It does not mean that the class is any more difficult to play well at end game and it certainly doesn't mean that it should be stronger than other classes.

I think people get a little bit of a big head about how "hard" LMs are to play at end game. sure, to play a LM well you need to do a lot of things. but that's true of any class. Take hunters, which are a "simple" class. They certainly are easier to solo than LMs because they've got bigger burst damage and can burn stuff down quickly in solo situations. But it's certainly NOT easy to play a hunter well at end game - i know, because i see a lot of bad hunters . To be able to sustain excellent damage while maintaining the correct balance of power and threat is not something a lot of people seem to be able to do. And then add potential support cc/poison curing roles on top of that.

Sure, there's a lot of different things a lore-master *can* do, but in most fights you aren't required to do most of those things. and most of them become second nature anyway. A good chunk of the time we'll be doing our super complicated DPS "rotation" of cycling between burning embers and staff strike.

Anyway, LMs certainly have a pretty unique role, and lots of different things to do but i don't think it's fundmentally more difficult to play well than other classes.

Not sure if trolling...

I need to stop posting because people are hating me in a way that all my posts are "troll" and have been negative by the true trolls.

Please stay On topic.

And some forum administrator, please punish these "negative abusers".

We're 'Advanced' because there's a very specific set of skills that we must use at specific times to be functional in a group setting. This is why some of the dps classes are set as beginners; you can pretty much hit buttons and you'll be passable, just not at peak performance obviously.

That being said, playing an lm isn't hard. Being a passable lm is actually quite easy. Do your debuffs, keep your debuffs up, spot heal, throw in a bit of dps in between. A good lm however makes it his prerogative to get debuffs on as many targets as possible,cc on the fly, and add dps effectively without sacrificing your main function. But the same is pretty much true for all classes in this game.

It's all about effectiveness, and bringing your class to its full potential.

Originally Posted by JDCass

That being said, playing an lm isn't hard. Being a passable lm is actually quite easy. Do your debuffs, keep your debuffs up, spot heal, throw in a bit of dps in between. A good lm however makes it his prerogative to get debuffs on as many targets as possible,cc on the fly, and add dps effectively without sacrificing your main function. But the same is pretty much true for all classes in this game.

Well, I've seen plenty of LMs that are simply lost with the multitude of abilities the class has, and sit in the group doing limited damage, commanding their pet and sometimes using the (wrong) debuffs while refusing to trait anything but KoA.


I'd say the class is labelled "advanced" because of the many different group functions LMs have, and many not so experienced LMs are overwhelmed and just do what they usually do when soloing, and being of no use to the group.

In many skirmish PUGs, I join with a LM being already present and not traited MoNF, so I stay MoNF and do damage. Then I notice how healers are missing power, Tanks have wounds and no stun immunity, while key debuffs are wasted on trash and not used against skirmish leutnants - and I have to fill in for the other LM without being traited accordingly.

The class simply isn't a straightforward as DPS-ers (just do damage), healers and sometimes even tanks, with the result that only a fraction of the LM skillset is being used in groups. (Thats also the reason IMHO why LFFs always ask for Captains, but not many for LMs - debuffing and LM support are not as noticeable as getting 2k extra morale)

Oh, and of course soloing is not as easy, because some players don't grasp how CC and slows need to be used to counteract our inductions, which is intended by the class designer. I'm not pointing fingers on anyone in specific...

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

Not sure if trolling...

Def not trolling.

Originally Posted by JDCass

We're 'Advanced' because there's a very specific set of skills that we must use at specific times to be functional in a group setting. This is why some of the dps classes are set as beginners; you can pretty much hit buttons and you'll be passable, just not at peak performance obviously.

That being said, playing an lm isn't hard. Being a passable lm is actually quite easy. Do your debuffs, keep your debuffs up, spot heal, throw in a bit of dps in between. A good lm however makes it his prerogative to get debuffs on as many targets as possible,cc on the fly, and add dps effectively without sacrificing your main function. But the same is pretty much true for all classes in this game.

It's all about effectiveness, and bringing your class to its full potential.

Agree with this, but I think this game devalues "good DPS" too much, probably because it's so easy for bad DPS to hide themselves given the lack of use of DPS meters. When a LM performs badly, it's obvious. When a DPS performs badly it's usually not obvious, except in really difficult content. It's probably why LMs think that they have a uniquely hard job - because they can't see all the bad DPSers they're playing with failing at their job, which is to do excellent damage to the right target at the right time. The skill level between playing a LM well and playing a DPS class well isn't fundamentally that different. Sure, we need to do a variety of different things, but at the end of the day when a LM fails their job it's fairly obvious, not so much when a DPS class does (except, as i said, in actually hard content - of which there isn't any at level cap atm).

Purple????