Thread: Soloers and Seals

Originally Posted by Baronth

But... the answer is simple... LOTRO is a MMORPG... Massively MULTIPLAYER Online Role Playing Game...

Yawn. Dull and unimaginative point which has been countered each of the other 1,000,000,000 times someone has posted it. The 'G' in MMORPG does not stand for 'Grouping'. 'Multiplayer' means playing in a world which contains other players, not being in a FS with them. 99% of the game is solo for everyone.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

If that's true then why aren't ALL of your characters wearing crafted gear? Up until this expansion I would agree that the crafted set was good enough for solo play. That is no longer the case. Again, I'm not asking that solo players be given the very top tier stuff. I have no problem with there being a set for raiders that is harder to obtain. But I want a set for my toons that is decent.

My non raiding 75s indeed use crafted gear and have zero problem with any content. Present teal craftables are more than decent.
Due to unlucky rolls, even my raiders still wear certain crafted pieces, including jewelery.

So what kind of content are you doing that you find crafted gear unsuitable? I havent found such yet and I solo quite a bit, even some pretty challenging group stuff with various classes.
I havent tried soloing Draigoch yet though...

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

Yawn. Dull and unimaginative point which has been countered each of the other 1,000,000,000 times someone has posted it. The 'G' in MMORPG does not stand for 'Grouping'. 'Multiplayer' means playing in a world which contains other players, not being in a FS with them. 99% of the game is solo for everyone.

I disagree with you... In a Multiplayer game is clear that u will play grouped with other players... Is the most fun thing of the game...
This is my point... And repeat: if u like solo-play, search a solo-game...

Originally Posted by Baronth

I disagree with you... In a Multiplayer game is clear that u will play grouped with other players...

No, it isn't. Almost the entire game is solo, instances and group quests make up only a tiny proportion of content. Many players never group at all, through choice or circumstance or both. My alts never group, ever (except when I co-opted a higher-level kinmate to blast me through something).

For my Champion, LOTRO is a grouping game. For all my other characters, LOTRO is a solo game. That might not be how YOU see it, but it might surprise you to know that your understanding of what an online game should be is not the only one, nor even the predominant one.

Originally Posted by Baronth

In a Multiplayer game is clear that u will play grouped with other players

NO, multiplayer=many players not "many players" grouping. Just the fact that one player see others make the game called "multiplayer".
Sorry this is pretty basic, if YOU dont understand then is you who should consider changing game.

Originally Posted by Baronth

... Is the most fun thing of the game...

People have different opinions about fun.

Originally Posted by Baronth

This is my point... And repeat: if u like solo-play, search a solo-game...

Again you don't have a point here. See above. BTW players have many other instances to interact with the rest of the server examples: Auction House, RP activities, force emotes (coulndt resist), chatting.

And about the topic, I don't believe everything should be available to everyone. But I see solo players very penalized and their money worth the same as others.

Turbine should open many roads to obtain unique gear: solo play, group play, crafting and shop. Each unique set of gear should differ in fashion and bonuses a little. Each kind of player could find his own way to gear up then.

Originally Posted by Baronth

I disagree with you... In a Multiplayer game is clear that u will play grouped with other players... Is the most fun thing of the game...
This is my point... And repeat: if u like solo-play, search a solo-game...

Its been chewed over subject like zillion times so far.

My view on it is - everyone is free to play however damn they want. Respect every playstyle if you expect yours to be respected. I would be the last person to tell anyone what they *should* do with their time and money. If it pleases them to sit in the Shire on level 3 for 5 years why would that bother you?

Unless you are selfish and want people to group just because you want to group and cant find anyone willing to play with you. In that case change the attitude imo. I never had problem making new "friends" in my games and grouping if I so wanted. Nor should anyone else if they are social enough. If they dont want to who are you to tell them what should they want or not?

I like grouping. I love raiding. I enjoy crafting. AND I really like soloing when I feel like it. I enjoy every aspect of the game. It is my choice and my pleasure I get for my money and spend my time on.
Do you think you have any right to say what am I, a total stranger, supposed to do with my money and time? That would be really impudent not to say something worse.

Originally Posted by CFury

Its been chewed over subject like zillion times so far.

My view on it is - everyone is free to play however damn they want. Respect every playstyle if you expect yours to be respected. I would be the last person to tell anyone what they *should* do with their time and money. If it pleases them to sit in the Shire on level 3 for 5 years why would that bother you?

Unless you are selfish and want people to group just because you want to group and cant find anyone willing to play with you. In that case change the attitude imo. I never had problem making new "friends" in my games and grouping if I so wanted. Nor should anyone else if they are social enough. If they dont want to who are you to tell them what should they want or not?

I like grouping. I love raiding. I enjoy crafting. AND I really like soloing when I feel like it. I enjoy every aspect of the game. It is my choice and my pleasure I get for my money and spend my time on.
Do you think you have any right to say what am I, a total stranger, supposed to do with my money and time? That would be really impudent not to say something worse.

But for me is the same! If u want soloplay, u can do it! If you want kill norbogs near TA everyday all the day ( :P ), u can do it! But so u can't pretend to have the best armour or jewels in a game like this!

Originally Posted by Baronth

But for me is the same! If u want soloplay, u can do it! If you want kill norbogs near TA everyday all the day ( :P ), u can do it! But so u can't pretend to have the best armour or jewels in a game like this!

I dont understand you. I do have "the best" armor in game on my champion and my minstrel, the two characters I raid with.
I couldnt care less what I have on my hunter who is mainly my mining/gathering character. I soloed her to 75, I never did single instance with her, I made her all teal crafted gear and she is doing perfectly fine soloing and skirmishing to her heart content.

I see no reason to grind "the best" gear on her. Why would I? Her stats are not just good but overboard for soloing anyway.

I have no interest in grouping with her either, I already have one DPS class I enjoy playing in groups. I might join the 3rd kin raid sometime soon because my "real" raiders are locked out, but that would be for the fun/social factor mostly. And she is decently geared up in craftables for the raids we presently have.

So what exactly is your point? I was just saying that everyone has the right to play however they want and nor you or anyone else have right to tell them to go play single player games if they dont feel like grouping.

Hardest solo quest to date? Hmm perhaps Death form below in mirkwood, percentrage of the playerbase at 65 that had completed that quest in its day?

Compare to hardest raid boss to date, hmm probably Gortheron T2 challenge or Durin's Bane T2 Challenge, percentrage of playerbase who had completed those encounters at 65?

Compare those two "numbers" to each, which do you actually consider the "hardest" in terms of effort and dedication required to conquer it once let alone multiple times to gear up. Time spent getting something does not automatically equal effort.

I really don't understand this entire debate about solo players being able to aqquire raid gear through solo'ing, who actually thinks that's a good idea? No one is aruging that solo'ers should not have good gear, but come on let's be honest here, grouping is harder, grouping is more complex and as such the rewards for that of course outweigh the efforts compared to "just" grinding anohter whatever quest/skirmish yet again.

Of course solo players should have good gear, of course they should be rewarded, and might I add, well rewarded, for their efforts, yes they should be able to aqquire good armor, good weapons and good jewellery, and they can. To gain a little bit more, you gotta do something else than running around being yourself, it's like in real life, if you stick to yourself and do everything on your own you can produce a lot, if you engage with other people and produce together you can produce more pr. person involved than if they all had been on their own.

I am sorry if this sounds a bit condecending, it is not meant like that in any way, but if people insist on bringing everyone to the same level, you will kill off all aspiration to become better, learn and try to do something you have not done before, that's part of evolving as a player, heck even as a human being.

Originally Posted by Beriothien_EU

Hardest solo quest to date? Hmm perhaps Death form below in mirkwood, percentrage of the playerbase at 65 that had completed that quest in its day?

Compare to hardest raid boss to date, hmm probably Gortheron T2 challenge or Durin's Bane T2 Challenge, percentrage of playerbase who had completed those encounters at 65?

Compare those two "numbers" to each, which do you actually consider the "hardest" in terms of effort and dedication required to conquer it once let alone multiple times to gear up. Time spent getting something does not automatically equal effort.

I really don't understand this entire debate about solo players being able to aqquire raid gear through solo'ing, who actually thinks that's a good idea? No one is aruging that solo'ers should not have good gear, but come on let's be honest here, grouping is harder, grouping is more complex and as such the rewards for that of course outweigh the efforts compared to "just" grinding anohter whatever quest/skirmish yet again.

Of course solo players should have good gear, of course they should be rewarded, and might I add, well rewarded, for their efforts, yes they should be able to aqquire good armor, good weapons and good jewellery, and they can. To gain a little bit more, you gotta do something else than running around being yourself, it's like in real life, if you stick to yourself and do everything on your own you can produce a lot, if you engage with other people and produce together you can produce more pr. person involved than if they all had been on their own.

I am sorry if this sounds a bit condecending, it is not meant like that in any way, but if people insist on bringing everyone to the same level, you will kill off all aspiration to become better, learn and try to do something you have not done before, that's part of evolving as a player, heck even as a human being.

Really? So if one doesnt want to farm raids he is not evolving as a human being? Not having will for touching other points, not that those are less absurd.

Jeebus, please, can people at least think before they write.

Now, you evolve yourself the way it suits you, and let others evolve themselves as it suits them. Its also part of evolving as a human being.

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

Because my Champ spends next to no time solo. I'm either in Ettenmoors (wearing the PvP set) or in raids/instances (wearing the raid set). My alts, however, spend all their time solo and use the more balanced crafted set alongside some of the extremely good purple quest rewards and have no problems at all. What solo content are you finding too difficult to manage in crafted gear?

The fact that you referred to the crafted set as 'more balanced' is pretty funny. If you are talking about the level 60 set then I would agree although the stats are way too low for level 75. If you are talking about the new stuff then you are way off in my opinion. What solo content did I find difficult? - With my RK - many of the Nan Curunir quests in the orc camp, also some of the Isengard repeatables and the camp in the Dunbog. Those were all 'solo' quests but very difficult given current gear. I also don't think that anyone that plays in the Ettenmoors is truly qualified to render an opinion on solo play. I could make the same arguement that since I have done an Ettenmoors raid in crafted gear that you don't need better gear to play out there. Perhaps what you had was just fine. Perhaps you just need to learn to play better as has been suggested to us? ;-p

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

I can't see anyone making such a point. I certainly don't think it and nor does anyone I know. I think you are projecting your own unfair preconceptions here. On the contrary, most raiders I know hope for harder content in U5 and bemoan the faceroll easiness of our weekly Draigoch yawn.

Then you need to re-read some of the posts in this very thread. When I suggested there should be a tippy top tier raid set that required a larger group and harder content it didn't go over well with everyone.

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

I don't disagree with the basic suggestion about having different gear available for all different styles of play. I note also that unlike many, you are happy for there to be raid-unique gear. I just disagree with you that crafted gear is somehow inadequate for normal solo questing/skirmishing/etc play.

So who is determining what is 'normal' solo play? What is 'normal' for you may not be normal for me. Just because people enjoy solo play does not mean they sit in Galtrev doing needlepoint. I'm glad that you agree there should be different armor sets. But you are only thinking in terms of raiding, right? Just so long as they don't make the crafted gear better or more class specific, right? Why can't there be more specific gear designed for more casual players? I don't see how giving us that would rob anyone else of their enjoyment of the game.

Here's a question - why does making crafted gear better for the solo player make raiders get all bent out of shape. Does it make you feel better about your own toons to see others struggling on the landscape?

Originally Posted by Baronth

u will play grouped with other players... Is the most fun thing of the game...

Well I'm glad we cleared that up. If it's the most fun thing in the game then why are the majority of the quests in the game soloable? Why is it so hard to find a group when you need one? The majority of groups I see forming in GLFF are level 75 content. There are tons of lower level characters. Are they just skipping over the fellowship content they can't find groups for? Or do they not want to group because they don't find it enjoyable? If everyone agreed that grouping was the most fun thing in the game I think we would see more grouping early on but that is not the case.

Originally Posted by MikaHR

Really? So if one doesnt want to farm raids he is not evolving as a human being? Not having will for touching other points, not that those are less absurd.

Jeebus, please, can people at least think before they write.

Now, you evolve yourself the way it suits you, and let others evolve themselves as it suits then. Its also part of evolving as a human being.

I am sorry if I offended you, but you are twisting my point somewhat. I don't believe I said if you don't farm raids you are not evolving.

What I argued was that if you don't walk outside the cave, well you only get so far the cave allows you to. If you argue that no matter what you do in a game like LOTRO you should have the same loot and the same everything, then what is the point of new content, what is the point of trying something else?

Originally Posted by Beriothien_EU

I am sorry if I offended you, but you are twisting my point somewhat. I don't believe I said if you don't farm raids you are not evolving.

What I argued was that if you don't walk outside the cave, well you only get so far the cave allows you to. If you argue that no matter what you do in a game like LOTRO you should have the same loot and the same everything, then what is the point of new content, what is the point of trying something else?

Where did i write that:

a) no matter what you do you should have the same loot

b) theres no point of trying something else

Quote needed.

In a game like LOTRO? Whats that supposed to mean? Do you perhaps mean that MMO=forced grouping? No, LOTRO is not that kind of game.

MMO=persistant world to which multiple users can log in at the same time.

Saying that MMO must be this or that, over the defintion above, is personal opinion, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

I would agree that the crafted set was good enough for solo play. That is no longer the case.

What SOLO content is there at 75 for which the gear you dinged 75 can't be used and that NEEDS anything better?

Quest, drop and rep-barter gear is more than adequate to get to 75 and then do all the content designed to be soloed, I know, I've done it, from SOA to SOM and I've found nothing in ROI that's any different. The only time I bother crafting is if/when I want to do group stuff and I only do it then as a courtesy for my fellows, since most non-raid content doesn't really need 'teal' gear either, vendor purples are more than adequate.

The only exception I would make is the tank, where I can certainly accept crafted gear is a 'must' really, to not overburden the healer and cause undue extra work for the others, for non-raid instance bosses. All other GROUP roles are perfectly viable in gear from vendors or quests, and no such gear is NEEDED for SOLO content.

Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar

What SOLO content is there at 75 for which the gear you dinged 75 can't be used and that NEEDS anything better?

I keep wondering this too. Do those who are carrying the "soloing is hard/harder" side of the discussion have specific examples in mind? Or do you mean for artificial challenges, like soloing instances designed for more than 1 player or pulling groups bigger than need to be pulled to get the job done?

Originally Posted by MikaHR

Where did i write that:

a) no matter what you do you should have the same loot

b) theres no point of trying something else

Quote needed.

In a game like LOTRO? Whats that supposed to mean? Do you perhaps mean that MMO=forced grouping? No, LOTRO is not that kind of game.

MMO=persistant world to which multiple users can log in at the same time.

Saying that MMO must be this or that, over the defintion above, is personal opinion, nothing more.

I am sorry but I give up, you seem bend on arguing over wording and who said what and where, I am almost certain you know what I mean but you seem to prefer discussing semantics and process, so the thread is all yours I am done, you know my oppinion and well let's leave it at that.

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

I keep wondering this too. Do those who are carrying the "soloing is hard/harder" side of the discussion have specific examples in mind? Or do you mean for artificial challenges, like soloing instances designed for more than 1 player or pulling groups bigger than need to be pulled to get the job done?

Why is it "artificial" chalenge? It just proves that solo content can be made as hard as you want, there hasnt been a raid yet that hasnt been beaten, yet theres ton of content that hasnt been soloed, so solo is much harder than raidng in LOTRO

Originally Posted by Beriothien_EU

I am sorry but I give up, you seem bend on arguing over wording and who said what and where, I am almost certain you know what I mean but you seem to prefer discussing semantics and process, so the thread is all yours I am done, you know my oppinion and well let's leave it at that.

Well, stop putting words in my mouth and well be fine, yes we know, if you dont farm raids you dont evolve as a human being, note taken.

Originally Posted by MikaHR

Well, stop putting words in my mouth and well be fine, yes we know, if you dont farm raids you dont evolve as a human being, note taken.

Really, you sure wanna do this?

Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar

What SOLO content is there at 75 for which the gear you dinged 75 can't be used and that NEEDS anything better?

Quest, drop and rep-barter gear is more than adequate to get to 75 and then do all the content designed to be soloed, I know, I've done it, from SOA to SOM and I've found nothing in ROI that's any different. The only time I bother crafting is if/when I want to do group stuff and I only do it then as a courtesy for my fellows, since most non-raid content doesn't really need 'teal' gear either, vendor purples are more than adequate.

I could make the same arguement about raid gear. There is really no content out there that requires you have to have raid gear. You can successfully accomplish all objectives with crafted / quest drops. The gear is simply the reward....

Personally, I enjoy running solo skirmishes on tier 3. Very hard right now with certain classes. That's just one example.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

The fact that you referred to the crafted set as 'more balanced' is pretty funny. If you are talking about the level 60 set then I would agree although the stats are way too low for level 75. If you are talking about the new stuff then you are way off in my opinion.

Compared to the Draigoch armour, all of which is highly-specialised (ie focused on one stat) the teal crafted stuff is much more varied, offering a better spread of stats. That seems obvious to me and you're the first person I've heard say anything different. Well, whatever.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

What solo content did I find difficult? - With my RK - many of the Nan Curunir quests in the orc camp, also some of the Isengard repeatables and the camp in the Dunbog. Those were all 'solo' quests but very difficult given current gear.

Hang on ... I'm talking about the lvl 75 crafted gear here. So obviously before you were lvl 75 you weren't wearing it. Yes, that final camp is mildly difficult if you'e still wearing your lvl 65 stuff. Go back again in the lvl 75 gear which is the subject of the conversation and it won't be so hard.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

I also don't think that anyone that plays in the Ettenmoors is truly qualified to render an opinion on solo play. I could make the same arguement that since I have done an Ettenmoors raid in crafted gear that you don't need better gear to play out there.

Eh? The context of my point was that I wear raid gear to raid and PvMP gear to PvMP, replying to your query as to why I don't wear crafted gear on my non-soloing Champion. You could perfectly well do fine in Ettenmoors in crafted gear, I agree. Not entirely sure how you think that helps your point, unless you are trying to argue that Isengard quest mobs are tougher than a typical creep.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

Perhaps you just need to learn to play better as has been suggested to us? ;-p

The emoticon doesn't hide that this is just tedious personal abuse and a strawman to boot. I've never said you need to L2P. I actually agree with a lot of what you say, differing only on your contention (in which you are completely alone it seems) that the crafted gear is inadequate for solo play.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

What is 'normal' for you may not be normal for me. Just because people enjoy solo play does not mean they sit in Galtrev doing needlepoint.

Again, your apparent fury is causing you to make irrational points. Obviously you and I did exactly the same solo quests as we levelled to 75. We now have access to the same daily repeatables and skirmishes. So you know perfectly well what I meant by 'normal solo play'.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

I'm glad that you agree there should be different armor sets. But you are only thinking in terms of raiding, right? Just so long as they don't make the crafted gear better or more class specific, right? Why can't there be more specific gear designed for more casual players?

Hmmm. I've actually gone back and read my posts here because I was so bemused that you'd make this point to me. I specifically said that more options would be good. Class specific crafted gear would be sweet. Just to remind you - I have one group/raid character and four (yes, that's four times as many) solo characters. Your attempt to divide the LOTRO world into soloers and raiders matches no reality I'm aware of.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

Here's a question - why does making crafted gear better for the solo player make raiders get all bent out of shape. Does it make you feel better about your own toons to see others struggling on the landscape?

More strawman abuse. The only person getting 'bent out of shape' and raging at imaginary slights is you.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

I could make the same arguement about raid gear. There is really no content out there that requires you have to have raid gear. You can successfully accomplish all objectives with crafted / quest drops. The gear is simply the reward.....

I completely agree, I have no sympathy with the raiders' whine they NEED the phat lewt as a reward for their hard work as a 'right', just as I have no sympathy for soloers demanding the same phat lewt as a 'right'.

As for T3, the only reason to run them is for the challenge, they are no different from the lower tiers, so not being able to do them without gear from group content isn't a problem as I see it, certainly not an argument to support the 'raid gear for soloers' agenda IMO.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

Does it make you feel better about your own toons to see others struggling on the landscape?

What landscape content are we talking about here?

A naked player wouldn't struggle on landscape.

Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar

What landscape content are we talking about here?

I am thinking specifically of playing my RK through portions of the new zone...There is the camp in the Dunbog, the orc camp in Nan Curunir just to name a few....

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

Hang on ... I'm talking about the lvl 75 crafted gear here. So obviously before you were lvl 75 you weren't wearing it. Yes, that final camp is mildly difficult if you'e still wearing your lvl 65 stuff. Go back again in the lvl 75 gear which is the subject of the conversation and it won't be so hard.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Don't finish all the new content until you have completely decked yourself out in the level 75 crafted gear which clearly has main stats much lower than the Draigoch set. Oh yeah and by the way requires reputation to make which is obtainable by doing the quests you are waiting to do until you get your armor completed. Yeah I get it now.

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

I actually agree with a lot of what you say, differing only on your contention (in which you are completely alone it seems) that the crafted gear is inadequate for solo play.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I would still prefer to solo my way into Draigoch armor than run around with the low stats provided on the crafted gear. But if the crafted gear is so great I will be happy to sell you some when I log back in. :-)

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

Again, your apparent fury is causing you to make irrational points. Obviously you and I did exactly the same solo quests as we levelled to 75. We now have access to the same daily repeatables and skirmishes. So you know perfectly well what I meant by 'normal solo play'..

Depends what you consider 'normal. Every person plays differently. Some toons are going to do better soloing than others in the new zone. They will all get it done but its going to be harder for some. I'm glad you sailed right through it. I sailed through it on my champ. I had difficulty on my runekeeper. I guess I'm just a bad player.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

Depends what you consider 'normal. Every person plays differently. Some toons are going to do better soloing than others in the new zone. They will all get it done but its going to be harder for some. I'm glad you sailed right through it. I sailed through it on my champ. I had difficulty on my runekeeper. I guess I'm just a bad player.

My Captain went smoother than my RK as well. I fail to see that as a clear argument for everyone needing a specific set of armor that basically isn't mostly available until after you finish most or all of the current PvE quests however.

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

My Captain went smoother than my RK as well. I fail to see that as a clear argument for everyone needing a specific set of armor that basically isn't mostly available until after you finish most or all of the current PvE quests however.

I'd agree if you intend to solo through the quests and stop. But I like to run solo skirmishes, preferable on tier 2 or 3. Some better gear is going to be necessary for that especially on my RK since I was already having issues with her.

Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar

I completely agree, I have no sympathy with the raiders' whine they NEED the phat lewt as a reward for their hard work as a 'right', just as I have no sympathy for soloers demanding the same phat lewt as a 'right'.

I have no sympathy for the word "need" in some game whatsoever. Those that use it, in my opinion, never felt a real need for something that matters.
One needs food and sleep, one needs to work to pay the bills, one needs love or understanding. Needing a bunch of pretty pixels is the concept I have no understanding or much tolerance for.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

You are right, it makes no sense. That's why I was confused by your use of the Isengard area quests as an example of content for which the lvl 75 crafted gear was inadequate.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

Some toons are going to do better soloing than others in the new zone. They will all get it done but its going to be harder for some. I'm glad you sailed right through it. I sailed through it on my champ. I had difficulty on my runekeeper.

So really this debate comes down to the fact that your light armour character had difficulty in one of the very few densely populated areas in Dunland? OK. Referring to the point above though, how would better top-tier crafted gear (or, indeed, Draigoch gear) make any difference here since, as you rightly point out, you wouldn't be able to use it doing those quests anyway?

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

You are right, it makes no sense. That's why I was confused by your use of the Isengard area quests as an example of content for which the lvl 75 crafted gear was inadequate.


So really this debate comes down to the fact that your light armour character had difficulty in one of the very few densely populated areas in Dunland? OK. Referring to the point above though, how would better top-tier crafted gear (or, indeed, Draigoch gear) make any difference here since, as you rightly point out, you wouldn't be able to use it doing those quests anyway?

I can only tell you what my experiences with my RK have been. I entered Dunland at level 67. I crafted what I could pre level 75 and it didn't really help my RK. I didn't stay with level 60 gear. I swapped out pieces at the earliest opportunity with the Dunland crafted set and also used items from quest rewards. And since dinging level 75 I have taken her back to some of these areas to finish off my rep and gather task items. Even wearing as much level 75 crafted gear as I could make (Guild components being the major hold up here) and also items purchased from both rep vendors, some of these areas were still extremely difficult. I couldn't kill the larger mobs in the Isengard Circle without help. I was being ganged up on by the engineers on the platforms. Dying here was a huge pain as it is a long run back. No way did I want to re-enter the orc camp in Nan Curinir and face those trolls again. While I did better than I did with my lower level crafted gear there wasn't enough of a difference in my opinion. And this is honestly the first time in my 4+ years of playing that I can say that. Prior to now I have always been happy with and proud to wear my crafted goodies.

Currently my RK is wearing is her 4/6 Draigoch set. Bracelets from the rep vendor. Rest of the jewelry and armor is teal crafted. She now suffers from what I would consider to be probably an average amount of Runekeeper squishiness. By this I mean that she is still somewhat fragile but no where near as bad as she was. She is also a lot more deadly. If I do choose to group I can actually be of some benefit as a healer or a dps killing machine. Solo I can burn through mobs much more easily. I can even take down the big guys in the Isengard Circle. And I can actually complete solo skirmishes with her now which was impossible before. Although I still have trouble if I go beyond tier 1, this could be more to do with my soldier needing some boosting up ( I plan to work on that and see what happens). I see this as a major difference and it is where my opinions on current crafted gear are coming from.

Now granted - my champ on the other hand really didn't have any real issues soloing but then they are a much tougher class to begin with and he did have a really good weapon (splurged on this with him) going into the new area and he was geared with the absolute best stuff i could get soloing / skirmishing / reputation vendors etc. Some of which took a lot of time to get on my own. So, yes, he did better. But after playing 5 toons through the new area and skirmishing with them all, I still feel they need something better than the current set of crafted gear.

Originally Posted by Lizzi123

And this is honestly the first time in my 4+ years of playing that I can say that. Prior to now I have always been happy with and proud to wear my crafted goodies.

My suspicion, and I've started a thread expanding on why, is that the level 75 Riders armor is really just re-labeled level 70.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

ROI was rushed, theres no question about it.

And i dont like where they are taking LOTRO....again. ATM it seems they are taking it much more the way of MoM than way of SoA. I had no interest in continuing playing after MoM, and that hasnt changed *shrug*

Originally Posted by MikaHR

Unfortunately this thread is not about how to get one who wants to start raiding in starting raid gear, since you can start raiding in quest gear in LOTRO, but how soloers get best solo gear, which atm is gated by farming raid(s). Also applies to PvP gear.

The purpose of my post was to argue that the characterization of players as "raiders vs. soloers" is a false dichotomy because many (most?) players actually have fluid playstyles. Therefore in my perfect mmo world gear should be designed based on the idea that players should be able to switch playstyles rather quickly. I mentioned the players who are left out of raids for lack of gear (not necessarily in this game) as an example of why designing gear based on the raider vs. soloer dichotomy is imo not the best design philosophy. I had no intention of discussing the issue of getting into Lotro raids with gear obtained by soloing.

Since your response only emphasized the [imo false] dichotomy between "raiders" and "soloers," I can only assume I either failed to get my point across or that you disagree with me on this fundamental philosophy. So to clarify my point, I think it is good for "soloers" to be able to get "raid gear" because it will allow both "soloers" and "raiders" to fluidly switch playstyles.

I agree that my post was off-topic from the original poster's, but so are nearly all the posts in this thread. I was responding to the dozens of posts (and now I can include yours) who keep emphasizing the "raider vs. soloer" dichotomy and arguing about design philosophy based on this dichotomy. Imo the whole way of looking at gear design from this standpoint ignores the reality that players are people subject to changing circumstances and interests, and further places too much emphasis on the value of gear, when imo the true excitement of content comes from enjoying the mechanics of the fight itself and in the case of group work from the interaction with other team members.

As a mechanic of Update5, players SHOULD have had the ability to trade up marks and/or medallions for seals.
There is a purple set of gear, obtainable at the trainers in the Ox-Clan Camp [who also barter for the teal set] that require only medallions and seals....no deed/raid requirement is necessary. However you STILL need to run at least 3-man instances, in order to get the Seals.....more forced grouping.

Originally Posted by Clovenshield

As a mechanic of Update5, players SHOULD have had the ability to trade up marks and/or medallions for seals.
There is a purple set of gear, obtainable at the trainers in the Ox-Clan Camp [who also barter for the teal set] that require only medallions and seals....no deed/raid requirement is necessary. However you STILL need to run at least 3-man instances, in order to get the Seals.....more forced grouping.

+ rep to you..

Even if you are going strictly for the Draigoch set which can be purchased with Medallions only it is going to take a very very long time if you don't group. I appreciate that it is 'available' to solo players but it would be nice if there was a decent set available that solo players could obtain in a reasonable amount of time.