Thread: Update 5: Armies of Isengard Release Notes - Bullroarer Only (B1)

Just wanted to say thankyou to the dev's for putting so much time and effort in the creep class weaver, u done a good job well done, have you ever wondered why you dont see weaver in pvp anymore ?

It's not in the notes, but for those that got burned on the Seeking a Solution quest with the pickaxe, Saeradan reissues the quest now, says something like, "I can't believe you lost the pickaxe, dork." Why didn't we get that solution for Tracking an Old Goat?

I am just one player.. And of course nobody cares about "the little guy", but I'm certainly not alone in my feelings that Ettens is already absurd and is about to get 32% more so...

When you are fighting with a creep, and you start to lose, you can either die, or like most players do, run...

When running, if 5 seconds later, that creep can sprint at 132% (+5% destiny buff, and/or +50% war leader buff) towards you, reach you in 2 seconds flat (less time than it takes you to mount and run, as if you stop, you're dead.) Regardless of whether that skill is toggled off when they enter combat, that still gives them the ability to reach you, which is all that's really needed.

I've been in the moors a while and I'm not the best pvp'er, but I'm far from the worst... And at the moment I have trouble mitigating 2-6k hits from blackarrows, 1-4k crits from reavers and fighting at melee range with a blackarrow that can whack out short-cooldown skills that do more damage from standing than a rune-keeper or hunter can do without attuning or gaining focus...

Long post I know, and of course I'll be flamed for being a noob freep or whatever, but screw it. Where's my rune-keepers 11-18k morale UNBUFFED? 'Cause if you want to make creep dps as high as freep dps (which I think is a good thing) you need to make freep morale and mitigations as high as creeps'....

I play a warden in ettenmoors and I'm working towards 17k morale on it.. It's tough to get that.. But all a creep has to do is pop onto the store and buy some nice high rank skills and rank up using those, and they've done it. My friend plays a rune-keeper in the moors with 5k morale, and sure you can get 8k on it if you want zero dps, but 5k or 8k, when a blackarrow can 1 hit kill you or two hit kill you (VT then Revenge), what difference does it make?

Blackarrows mitigate like tanks, my burglar does more damage with surprise strike on a guardian (2.5k dmg average) than it does on a warg. (1.9k dmg average.)

Ettenmoors is wrecked at the moment, and as I said before.. It's about to get 32% worse. I was willing to put up with being 2 hit killed in a melee fight versus a ranged enemy... But this is the final straw.

Sort it out turbine, or you're gonna lose all your freeps, and your OP creeps will have nobody to one-shot.

INB4 "Freeps moan too much" we'll see how you creeps do when we have the same morale as you.
INB4 "You should play a creep yourself" I do. I have several mid-rank creeps as well as freeps.

Sick of the whole war between creeps and freeps being anything but a fun pass-time.. I don't want it to be 100% even, class v class, but a little bit of gear with more than 1 stat on it wouldn't go amiss for the freeps.

I've not found a freep or a creep who doesn't agree with the above. I'd say it speaks for itself, but if that were true I'd not have to write this.

Originally Posted by jayspeed

Someone else asked this earlier and it's a great question. How does the instance finder tool know if I'm Premium and what instance/raid/skirmish content I have unlocked. I'd hate to wait in queue for a group then added to an Annuminas group if I don't own the Evendim quest pack and can't do Annuminas instances.

It knows. You will not be put into an encounter that you aren't eligible for.

Originally Posted by TheREALify

Why is the use of this feature being subsidized? I don't understand why players who use this system will receive bonuses that others will not. Is there a need to promote the use of this system over the instance / skirmish join panel?

Because we want to encourage players to run the breadth of the content and not to just focus on running the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

Note that if you are willing to do a random instance instead of selecting one yourself, you can get the bonus without utilizing the matchmaking features of Instance Finder by coming in with a premade fellowship.

No offence turbine, but you going into WoW way by making lotro more casual, making it easier and boring, hope you'll change its way, and stop making all these changes in the marks system, and offence ratings

Any nerf to the LM legacies is ridiculous. Good lord. Not much to look forward to in this update at all, from the looks of things.

Back to playing Skyrim, and then Skyward Sword.

Originally Posted by ransroth

Because we want to encourage players to run the breadth of the content and not to just focus on running the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

Note that if you are willing to do a random instance instead of selecting one yourself, you can get the bonus without utilizing the matchmaking features of Instance Finder by coming in with a premade fellowship.

It will be interesting to see the stats for the IF in a month or 2, especially if there's an Isen instance that is deemed the equivalent of Dungeons of DG - what the abandonment ratio is, if there's a large difference in success rates, etc. Ok, I know we'll never see the stats, but would adjustments be made somewhere along the way?

It was already mentioned a couple of times but are there no planned RK changes in Update 5 to fix an existing "bug" that is currently getting RKs banned in PvP? or updates there were planned and never executed?

Originally Posted by Sapience

Raid, Skirmishes, Instances

• Instance - Inn of the Forsaken - Challenge: The Perfect Fellowship no longer being provided when not at Max Level

What's that all about?

Originally Posted by avdept

No offence turbine, but you going into WoW way by making lotro more casual, making it easier and boring, hope you'll change its way, and stop making all these ####ty changes in the marks system, and offence ratings

No offense to you, but I respectfully disagree. Adding an easier way to get players into group content is a good addition to the game. People have been wanting a Dungeon Finder for a while and other MMO's have it. It should be considered a standard MMO feature by now. Also why is less storage clutter a bad thing? I really wouldn't mind all the different kind of barter items if they ALL went into the barter wallet. Freeing up space in my vault is a good thing. I like the stat changes too. Some systems should be simplistic. Why the need for different kinds of offense rating. Consolidation of the resistances was great. I wouldn't mind if they combined BPE into one defense rating. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by frosa3

Please tell me they are also going to the barter wallet. In fact, please tell me all things that should be there are going there!

The equivalent of the old skirmish marks and campaign marks are going into the wallet. However, Bind to Account medallions from non-scalable instances are not (e.g., Medallions of the North Men, Moria, Lothlorien and DG medallions).

Got a quick look at the "Instance Finder" but haven't had an opportunity to use it. It looked incomplete until I re-read this & saw the "random instance" disclaimer. No way to select an instance (the very thing that most people wanting a better grouping tool have been complaining the most about.)

Although it looks like you wouldn't need to repeatedly enter & leave instances since the system reportedly asks you if you agree to the proposed match (& sounds like the proposed instance as well) before putting you in it.

As such, it appears that players can say "pphhfftt!" to the proposed match if/when it proposes dumping them in an unknown PUG for an instance no one wants to do.

Apparently trying to copy WoW's dungeon finder was preferred to simply importing or copying DDO's grouping tool.

Don't mean to sound harsh, but it seems that forum pleas for a copy of the WoW "instant gratification Raid-joiner" has overridden the LotRO player base desire for a grouping tool.

Time will tell, I suppose...

UPDATE:
Just saw Ransroth's post on the instance selection issue.

Originally Posted by ransroth

It was very much considered and something that we intend to do for the next update.

It turned out that the feature was too big to do whole for one update, and we really wanted to get some player feedback / see the system in action, so that our next release will be that much better.

Being able to select specific instances presents significant design challenges, particularly with regards to UI, so instead of not having anything ready for Update 5 so that we could have both in Update 6, we instead chose to try to get the "random" experience closer to done and leave the "specific" for the next update. We hope that the players will find value in what they get in Update 5, even without having any of the "specific instance" features.

...
You are not told what instance/skirmish you are sent to. The current Instance Finder is for finding random encounters (if an encounter is a particularly bad match for Instance Finder, then we can explicitly exclude it - for example, at the moment we have excluded the Survival in Barrow Downs skirmish). If you are looking to run a particular encounter, Instance Finder is not for you - wait for next update.

So the functionality of selecting instances/skirmishes is supposed to be included at some point, but since someone(s) wanted to "just put something out now", it seems that we WILL be faced with having to leave instances/skirmishes that we get dumped into "randomly".

I understand deciding that "we just want to get something out", but IMO, it's short term thinking that often backfires more than not.

Hopefully, the next update will actually provide the grouping tool many of us have been asking/hoping for, and also hopefully before the new "Instance Genie" is discarded & written off as "unfinished junk" by the time the requested functionality is put in.

Originally Posted by Sapience

• Several legacies with higher than expected values have been normalized.
  • Burglar
    • Pulse Modifier for Glee
    • Stealth Level
    • Trick Range
    • Riddle Range
  • Captain
    • Pressing Attack Max Targets
    • Words of Courage Pulses
  • Champion
    • Ardour/Glory Pip Interval
    • Rend Pulses
    • Hamstring Range
  • Minstrel
    • Soliloquy of Spirit Pulses
    • Story of Courage Range
    • Call of the Second Age Targets
  • Lore-master
    • Cracked Earth Range
    • Burning Embers Range
    • Ancient Craft Targets
    • Fire-lore Targets
    • Bane Flare Targets
    • Wizard's Fire Pulses
    • Burning Embers Pulses
  • Hunter
    • Endurung Quick Shot Threat Down
    • Stealth Detection
    • Maximum Targets for AoE Skills
  • Guardian
    • Shield Wall Range
    • Targeted Melee Skill Range
    • Guardian Area Effect Melee Targets
    • Guardian Bleed Pulses
    • Challenge Targets
  • Warden
    • Dark Before Dawn Power Restored
    • Exultation of Battle Threat Up
    • Javelin Skills Max Range
  • Rune-keeper
    • Pulses Prelude to Hope
    • Vivid Imagery Targets

*dies a little inside*

They REALLY need to get rid of the cooldowns on instance loot now....

I know it is not ready for raids yet, but since it is a matter of WHEN not IF it will be, then the cooldown combined with the max number of instances we are allowed to enter issues is going to wreck this system.

If a person who rarely raids anymore can see this coming how is this not already being addressed?

Originally Posted by ransroth

Because we want to encourage players to run the breadth of the content and not to just focus on running the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

Note that if you are willing to do a random instance instead of selecting one yourself, you can get the bonus without utilizing the matchmaking features of Instance Finder by coming in with a premade fellowship.

Thank you, I appreciate your forthright and speedy response. I would like to respond with two counter-points. First, I typically run skirmishes to collect skirmish marks. As such, I gravitate towards skirmishes with the highest skirmish mark per hour ratio. It appears that some skirmishes simply deliver a much higher ratio than others. That being the case, and the quick collection of skirmish marks being the goal, it is simply more efficient to repeat the same skirmish ad infinitum.

That being said, I would be willing to try the instance finder feature. However, if the 'bonus' doesn't compensate for the potential skirmish mark per hour "drag factor" presented by some of the random skirmish choices, I will most likely continue to focus on the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

However, regarding the 'bonus' itself; will it be removed after update 6 when (and if) players are able to select specific encounters?

Originally Posted by Sapience

[*]Several legacies with higher than expected values have been normalized.[LIST][*]Burglar

• Pulse Modifier for Glee
• Stealth Level
• Trick Range
• Riddle Range

[*]Captain

• Pressing Attack Max Targets
• Words of Courage Pulses

[*]Champion

• Ardour/Glory Pip Interval
• Rend Pulses
• Hamstring Range

[*]Minstrel

• Soliloquy of Spirit Pulses
• Story of Courage Range
• Call of the Second Age Targets

[*]Lore-master

• Cracked Earth Range
• Burning Embers Range
• Ancient Craft Targets
• Fire-lore Targets
• Bane Flare Targets
• Wizard's Fire Pulses
• Burning Embers Pulses

[*]Hunter

• Endurung Quick Shot Threat Down
• Stealth Detection
• Maximum Targets for AoE Skills

[*]Guardian

• Shield Wall Range
• Targeted Melee Skill Range
• Guardian Area Effect Melee Targets
• Guardian Bleed Pulses
• Challenge Targets

[*]Warden

• Dark Before Dawn Power Restored
• Exultation of Battle Threat Up
• Javelin Skills Max Range

[*]Rune-keeper

• Pulses Prelude to Hope
• Vivid Imagery Targets

Geez thanks for the nerfs. So for all those people fooled into putting these legacies into their LIs that now turned out to be 'too good to be true', are you providing empowerment scrolls to compensate for *your* mistakes so folks can swap out these legacies?

It's not a mistake, though. The legacy is just not as powerful anymore. I'm sad about my Soliloquy not lasting almost 2 minutes, but that doesn't mean I don't want the legacy anymore. I still want it, I just cry about my extra ticks.

Originally Posted by ransroth

Because we want to encourage players to run the breadth of the content and not to just focus on running the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

Begging your pardon, but the tail does not wag the dog.

If you want people to run those rarely run instances (Dungeons of Dol Guldur as a prime example), how about make it WORTH running? You know, fix the final boss fight so it isn't as punitive and unforgiving. Painting lip sticks on a pig does not make it not a pig. There are -reasons- why certain instances aren't being run. If you want folks to do them more often, fix the problems.

Speaking of ticks, I am happy about the damage improvements to warg. The 32% out of combat speed is nice, but it's the equivalent of a "poor mount". Meanwhile free peoples can take a 68% mount and add 20% with fodder for +88%.

Plz show us how much of the nerf in legacies went?
Im wondering for Pressing attack one, its 3 targets on R0 now on beta??

And ty for still *fixing* creeps but i dont like something...

March skill which is removed when you get in combat its not fair compaired to horses...
make it that freeps get OFF the horse when they get in combat too...isnt taht fair?ONLY in ettens



Change or fix the Blackarrow traits of

Enhanced Skill: Death Blossom
Enhanced Skill: Gash

both rediculus


And add some new skins....omg we are in isengard now...still the old 4 year skins?

Originally Posted by ransroth

It knows. You will not be put into an encounter that you aren't eligible for.



Because we want to encourage players to run the breadth of the content and not to just focus on running the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

Note that if you are willing to do a random instance instead of selecting one yourself, you can get the bonus without utilizing the matchmaking features of Instance Finder by coming in with a premade fellowship.

Originally Posted by ransroth

Because we want to encourage players to run the breadth of the content and not to just focus on running the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

This, this, this!!! Please, please don't give into the inevitable demands that they be allowed to cherry pick the easiest instances with this tool. Half the reason everyone thinks the slightly out of the ordinary are so scary and hard is that they've never done them before. They might find that they're actually quite doable if they're given an incentive to work their way through them. Annuminas Haud Valandil or Ost Elendith isn't actually that much harder than GB thadur, but because GB thadur is the one people have decided is the easiest way to get their reward, it's the one that gets run over and over again and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

As an aside, you'll need to implement some kind of penalty for dropping group (eg. locked out of the instance finder tool for a period of time) to make this work, otherwise people will just drop when they see an instance they don't like load up.

Also, to further incentivise players and to make the whole thing work when people might have done a variety of different instances, you should consider having a shared daily cooldown for rewards across the scaled instances when using the raid finder. Eg. instead of each individual scaled instance having a daily S4M (or whatever the mark is) cooldown, players can get a maximum of, say, 8 daily S4M rewards from doing the scaled instances through the instance finder tool.

OMG, coffee? Seriously? Fireworks people, in Eru's name, that is something that could have been handy and fun.

I am just a little bit worried about this new tool as to what people are actually doing at the moment.

If you want to do a specific instance (because you did one or two already that day or want something new) then it is no good.

If you want to choose your people it isn't good for that... I like to inspect people before I invite them to make sure they have the right trait setup. As a LM myself, I understand the importance of different trait setups for different roles, and also the unique instances with the setups.... GB needs Paai, one of the new instances might not... so how do I know what to trait for before I enter?

Some people on my ignore list... or people who I know are bad players or rude players or whatever I cannot choose to be seperate from them.

How will leadership work essentially? If I want to lead an instance people know they going to get a rat/fm set/ clear instructions for bosses etc? Will this dungeon finder just throw 6 people in and who will be responsible for setting rats and explaining boss tactics? Maybe I missed something here but without leadership even basic, many of the simple instances can fail. Or does the one person start it and finds others to join? It would be nice if the leader can see people in the lists and inspect them then select them, at least see their names so they don't miss out on a friend or kinnie in the queue?

I think it is a nice idea I really do, I just have a lot of questions as you can see. I think it will be a lot more epic on update 6 if you can choose your instance... and your people... hmm maybe I should stick with glff. Please don't see this as a negative post just wanting answers

Originally Posted by TheREALify

However, regarding the 'bonus' itself; will it be removed after update 6 when (and if) players are able to select specific encounters?

The current plan is to keep the bonus in place for players who choose random encounters, but not for ones who select specific ones. There are some very interesting questions which we need to figure out.

Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ

As an aside, you'll need to implement some kind of penalty for dropping group (eg. locked out of the instance finder tool for a period of time) to make this work, otherwise people will just drop when they see an instance they don't like load up.

The way this currently works is that after Instance Finder teleports you, you can't use Instance Finder again for 10 minutes - hopefully this gives you some time to give the instance and the group a chance.

If you abandon group after being matched up and grouped up with players, you are given that same penalty.

Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ

Also, to further incentivise players and to make the whole thing work when people might have done a variety of different instances, you should consider having a shared daily cooldown for rewards across the scaled instances when using the raid finder. Eg. instead of each individual scaled instance having a daily S4M (or whatever the mark is) cooldown, players can get a maximum of, say, 8 daily S4M rewards from doing the scaled instances through the instance finder tool.

More interesting rewards is another thing we are discussing for U6.

So the only change for burgs is a legacy nerf.... hurray......

Originally Posted by ransroth

It turned out that the feature was too big to do whole for one update, and we really wanted to get some player feedback / see the system in action, so that our next release will be that much better.

Ok, apologies if this seems harsh, it's meant in the spirit of wanting this thing to actually work -- this approach is flat-out stupid. Exactly what feedback are you hoping to get on a useless tool? Maybe Toyota should start having models at the dealership for people to test drive that don't have transmissions in them. Yes, it's technically a car, but there's absolutely no way to use it as a car. Build the feature to a functioning state, release it, and then tweak it as needed.

Also consider the list of things that have been released as a "start" with a promise that the full deal is coming in phases...and then quietly gets abandoned. Every time you-know-who goes on about "more features coming in phases soonerish" most players I know write it off as never happening, so why would we bother to put any time into playing with it and offering feedback.

You can do better than this.

Originally Posted by ransroth

It knows. You will not be put into an encounter that you aren't eligible for.



Because we want to encourage players to run the breadth of the content and not to just focus on running the same "easiest" instance over and over again.

I agree with that. But how do you reply to this comment?

The random nature of the instance finder leads me to believe that many players will be placed into one of the few skirmishes and scaleable instances that are free to all players.

The lowest common denominator seems likely to become the most common random outcome, even for players who have purchased all the content.

Ok, so we will not run easiest instance over and over. We will run the most purchased instance over and over.

Is that right?

*shrug*

I don't know. I look at this "Instance Finder" and then I look at DDO's LFM panel, and I really prefer the later.

Random groups....are just never a good thing.

As other people said, if the issue for random instances is so people aren't running the "easiest" thing, perhaps you should look at increasing the rewards for the other instances to make them more appealing to run.

Originally Posted by Fin.

I agree with that. But how do you reply to this comment?


Ok, so we will not run easiest instance over and over. We will run the most purchased instance over and over.

Is that right?

That's a very good point. Lots of Trouble in Tuckborough and Siege of Gondonmon. Probably followed by the Moria skirmishes. Mirkwood skirmishes might be next, but you wouldn't believe how many level 75s there are out there that haven't done those books. It's crazy.

Originally Posted by Seedly

They are referring to old pre-LI revamp in update 3 relics (when there were 9 tiers and you didnt need relic removal scrolls).

Maybe, or maybe not. There is such a thing as a [Fused Ancient Relics] pack, which gives new Tier 8 relics. I have only seen them linked in chat, and they appear to be drops only (no way to craft them or meld them yet).

Items - Hunter - Draigoch Set - The 5-set Hunter bonus “Intent Concentration recovers all Archer's Art skills” will now reset Split Shot.



Wait wait wait. Does it now only reset SS or did you add SS to the reset table?

Originally Posted by Faileon

Items - Hunter - Draigoch Set - The 5-set Hunter bonus “Intent Concentration recovers all Archer's Art skills” will now reset Split Shot.



Wait wait wait. Does it now only reset SS or did you add SS to the reset table?

The latter.

Originally Posted by Simon23

So the only change for burgs is a legacy nerf.... hurray......

Because burgs aren't overpowered enough as it is, they definately need buffs...look at the armour sets you are getting...

Originally Posted by Failmaster

I am just a little bit worried about this new tool as to what people are actually doing at the moment.

If you want to do a specific instance (because you did one or two already that day or want something new) then it is no good.

If you want to choose your people it isn't good for that... I like to inspect people before I invite them to make sure they have the right trait setup. As a LM myself, I understand the importance of different trait setups for different roles, and also the unique instances with the setups.... GB needs Paai, one of the new instances might not... so how do I know what to trait for before I enter?

Some people on my ignore list... or people who I know are bad players or rude players or whatever I cannot choose to be seperate from them.

How will leadership work essentially? If I want to lead an instance people know they going to get a rat/fm set/ clear instructions for bosses etc? Will this dungeon finder just throw 6 people in and who will be responsible for setting rats and explaining boss tactics? Maybe I missed something here but without leadership even basic, many of the simple instances can fail. Or does the one person start it and finds others to join? It would be nice if the leader can see people in the lists and inspect them then select them, at least see their names so they don't miss out on a friend or kinnie in the queue?

I think it is a nice idea I really do, I just have a lot of questions as you can see. I think it will be a lot more epic on update 6 if you can choose your instance... and your people... hmm maybe I should stick with glff. Please don't see this as a negative post just wanting answers

I think Ran might have missed that as we posted same time.

But If there is a ten minute penalty for leaving an instance inside, why should someone be given a penalty for not knowing how to trait for an instance they don't know which one to take? If everyone traits randomly for a random instance could lead to much disaster!

Also is LM recognised as a healer on a 3man? As it should be but not for a 6man....

Originally Posted by Lenton

*shrug*

I don't know. I look at this "Instance Finder" and then I look at DDO's LFM panel, and I really prefer the later.

Random groups....are just never a good thing.

As other people said, if the issue for random instances is so people aren't running the "easiest" thing, perhaps you should look at increasing the rewards for the other instances to make them more appealing to run.

That's what I've been thinking.

In looking at it more, it really looks like the new "Instance Finder" isn't really a "Group Finder", but a "quick port into some random instance with anywhere from 0-5 other people."

I suspect that the issue is that 1) everyone's been looking for a grouping tool, 2) this was interpreted as filling that need, but 3) it's more akin to an "Instance Join" panel where you can quickly get put with a random number of others in exchange for a "slot machine" instance selection. Without grouping or instance control, it's not the "better LFF tool" that was envisioned when it was announced.

Probably won't be a problem if expectations are managed properly and they put a hard stop to the impression that this is supposed to be some kind of solution to grouping difficulties.

I agree about DDO - IMHO, that game has set the bar for grouping tools and is the model I'd like to see LotRO use.... If this instance tool someday incorporates the same functionality as the DDO grouping tool, great, but as it stands, a replacement for LFP/LFF/GLFF doesn't exist yet, & by current appearances it doesn't look like one will until at least Update 6. Something to hope for/look forward to I s'pose.

Is the Instance Finder tool going to be cross server? Is it really a good idea to release the tool in its current state? If too many people have a bad experience with the tool or find it lacking early on, it might kill any chance that it will get wide use later on.

What happened to finesse being placed on the Minstrel Dragioch set? I know we have new sets coming, but I don't find the new sets very desirable compared to the set I have now.

SoS is coming off of my skill bar at this point it just seems like a waste of power; other better skills could use that power.

Originally Posted by ransroth

At the moment, the role rules are as follows:
A 3-man will always need either a tank or a healer
A 6-man will always need both a tank and a healer

In both cases, if you come in with a pre-made fellowship, those rules are suppressed - if you want to run some random instance with the group you are with.

You can also enter with a group of 5 just to find one more - or if you are just missing a healer to pick up a healer.

Hello Ransroth,
couple of questions and a suggestion:

1). Will the finder consider equipped class trait ? If I'm dps traited on my rk, and I'm considered a healer by the tool for healing a difficult 6-man it can be very challenging..
If it doesn't consider traits or this might push classes like RK into healer roles all the time (or drop the fellowship with the 10 minute penalty)

2). If it considers equipped traits, when will a class be considered a healer ? How many blue traits would an RK need in order to be considered traited for healing ?
If it does consider traits there might o be a grey area where a class can do both, but still has a preference for doing one thing.

Suggestion: an optional selection box in the tool for classes to select their current role can help here. (Tanking, DPS, healing, support, mix). Another improvement for some players will be an optional toggle box (in settings somewhere) for the tool to find out the roles for those players who don't want to bother with selecting this each time when they start an instance.

Random groupings, random instances, Hey, look at it as taking a chance when you don't have anything else to do. Keep it positive in your mind. And it will help people become more flexible in their roles. As well as getting to trait flexibly-general purpose rather than rigidly-specific for a set group.

and remember it doesnt HAVE to be random groupings.

---

Originally Posted by Burglarking

Hello Ransroth,
couple of questions and a suggestion:

1). Will the finder consider equipped class trait ? If I'm dps traited on my rk, and I'm considered a healer by the tool for healing a difficult 6-man it can be very challenging..
If it doesn't consider traits or this might push classes like RK into healer roles all the time (or drop the fellowship with the 10 minute penalty)

2). If it considers equipped traits, when will a class be considered a healer ? How many blue traits would an RK need in order to be considered traited for healing ?
If it does consider traits there might o be a grey area where a class can do both, but still has a preference for doing one thing.

Suggestion: an optional selection box in the tool for classes to select their current role can help here. (Tanking, DPS, healing, support, mix). Another improvement for some players will be an optional toggle box (in settings somewhere) for the tool to find out the roles for those players who don't want to bother with selecting this each time when they start an instance.

Your suggestion is already implemented. Before joining the queue, players can choose which role(s) they wish to fill. These choices remain preselected the next time players use the Instance Finder tool.

For example, in the current version hunters may choose either the support or damage roles (or both), and minstrels can choose between the healer and damage roles (or both).

Originally Posted by ransroth

The way this currently works is that after Instance Finder teleports you, you can't use Instance Finder again for 10 minutes - hopefully this gives you some time to give the instance and the group a chance.

If you abandon group after being matched up and grouped up with players, you are given that same penalty.

What happens to the group if one player abandons them? Do they get another match from the dungeon finder queue, or do they have to go spam glff to replace the tank/healer that ran away? Is there any penalty/delay placed on the remaining players if they have to cancel the instance because one/two/... members left once they saw which instance they're placed in?

How does the instance finder handel player level? If I use the instance finder with my level 70 healer to find a group for a 6-man instance, do I have to wait (most likely indefinitely) until five other players on the same level show up to join? Do I have to expect to be thrown into a group with level 20+ players for a beginner's run of the Great Barrows? Can I join up with a level 75 group if I feel I'm capable to handle that content (which I do, having healed several lvl75-instances ranging from 3-mans to raids already)? And what if the rest of the group cries "foul" when they find a lower level player turn up in the instance?

How is the group leader selected in groups randomly matched through the instance finder? Does he/she have the option to turn on master looter (and run off with the group's loot) at the end of the instance? Or is there a specific loot rule placed on random groups?

Is there a way to use the instance finder to select a dungeon for an incomplete group (e.g. an experienced duo looking to do a random 3-man instance for the extra challenge and/or loot) without being forced to take another person into the group?