Thread: Pariah's Hunter Guide (RoI Edition)

Originally Posted by Sagit

Sadly we lack numbers here.

Your argumentation would only be valid if those adds you mention have significantly higher mitigation than the mobs you encounter while soloing. Else what you said for one should also hold for the other. Keep in mind that Penetrating Shot itself has a noteable chunk of armor reduction built in already. That combined with breachfinders is already enough to set most mobs armor close to zero.

We do indeed lack numbers but when I do bosses like shadow and acid I rarely have the time to take screenshots or take note of damage on crits, all I can really see is that my DPS is consistently higher when I use that trait - but it may be a coincidence, I only do those bosses once a week after all so getting enough data will take a lot of time.

Originally Posted by Sagit

I even dare to claim that at least for the Bowmaster and Huntsman line a good priority sequence can be given:

Okay, lets see

Bowmaster:
1. Swift and True

Whoops, lost me already.

I don't agree with everything in the OPs guide (hunters should not waste time purging poison against a spider) but I don't like critiquing cause hunter on hunter violence is something we don't need right now.

But when someone enters the argument as if they're an expert and then blows their first point, I don't mind so much.

Critical Eye is always your first trait. When talking dps, never prioritize a trait that affects a singles skill over a trait that affects all or multiple skills. 8% bonus on SB plus the extra 15% on the third shot good? Yep. As good as overall crit rating? Nope.

2. Strong Draw

7. Eathborn

Nope and nope. Huntsman is about attack speed and focus regen. If you're going to build for that, you don't stick in a dps trait that only affects one skill, even a spammable skill. Strong Draw is much lower.

Earthborn is underrated. Not only is it morale and power regen, its also focus generation. Its not the greatest, and the damn isote skill itself still needs to be fixed, but its more valuable than in the position you have it.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Okay, lets see



Whoops, lost me already.

I don't agree with everything in the OPs guide (hunters should not waste time purging poison against a spider) but I don't like critiquing cause hunter on hunter violence is something we don't need right now.

But when someone enters the argument as if they're an expert and then blows their first point, I don't mind so much.

Critical Eye is always your first trait. When talking dps, never prioritize a trait that affects a singles skill over a trait that affects all or multiple skills. 8% bonus on SB plus the extra 15% on the third shot good? Yep. As good as overall crit rating? Nope.

That completely depends on your build, it is easily possible to cap crit without this trait. If you dont cap crit however, I'd take Critical Eye as well.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Nope and nope. Huntsman is about attack speed and focus regen. If you're going to build for that, you don't stick in a dps trait that only affects one skill, even a spammable skill. Strong Draw is much lower.

Earthborn is underrated. Not only is it morale and power regen, its also focus generation. Its not the greatest, and the damn isote skill itself still needs to be fixed, but its more valuable than in the position you have it.

Nope and nope.

Penetrating Shot is not only a spamable skill, it is our main DPS skill. Adding 10% damage to our main DPS skill is thousands and thousands of miles beyond something as silly as Earthborn. Earthborn is so useless it ought to be a ToF trait.
First of all its only usable once every 1½-2 minutes, the gain in actual morale and power is next to nothing and you could get 4-5 focus by firing quick shot 2-3 times.
At best the Earthborn trait is situational, most of the time it is completely useless.
The Strong Draw trait however, is useful 99% of the time in combat.

Originally Posted by Elrantiri

That completely depends on your build, it is easily possible to cap crit without this trait. If you dont cap crit however, I'd take Critical Eye as well.





Nope and nope.

Penetrating Shot is not only a spamable skill, it is our main DPS skill. Adding 10% damage to our main DPS skill is thousands and thousands of miles beyond something as silly as Earthborn. Earthborn is so useless it ought to be a ToF trait.
First of all its only usable once every 1½-2 minutes, the gain in actual morale and power is next to nothing and you could get 4-5 focus by firing quick shot 2-3 times.
At best the Earthborn trait is situational, most of the time it is completely useless.
The Strong Draw trait however, is useful 99% of the time in combat.

completely agree with El

you say huntsman is about speed and focus regen? by the time stoe executes you could dps and gain an equal amount of focus... the regen from stoe is poor power pots are cheap and doest slow you down... ill throw in stoe as my aggro management to slow things down but I try to never use it...

Originally Posted by Elrantiri

That completely depends on your build, it is easily possible to cap crit without this trait. If you dont cap crit however, I'd take Critical Eye as well.

Everything is completely dependant on build. However if you're capping crit, especially without using critical eye, you're really sacrificing in other areas because the DR on crit after 20% is brutal. Or you can put in crit eys and build up other lacking areas.

There's no right or wrong way and its all opinion, but I would never rate crit eye below swift and true or any other trait that affects a single skill when talking dps.

Nope and nope.

Penetrating Shot is not only a spamable skill, it is our main DPS skill. Adding 10% damage to our main DPS skill is thousands and thousands of miles beyond something as silly as Earthborn. Earthborn is so useless it ought to be a ToF trait.

Meh. Our dps effectiveness is achieved far more through rotation than any single skill. So again maximizing a single skill to me has less value. DPS is damage over time, not damage so if I'm going to be counting on doing sustained dps, I'm going to take into account other factors like icpr, power regen, focus generation, and induction speed. My IP can hit for 6k but if I have no power, or our of focus, it still hits for 0.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Everything is completely dependant on build.

No. Deadly Precision, Swift Recovery and Strong Draw are always nice. Any hunter who doesnt trait at least Deadly Precision is not going to join any of my runs if I find out.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

However if you're capping crit, especially without using critical eye, you're really sacrificing in other areas because the DR on crit after 20% is brutal. Or you can put in crit eys and build up other lacking areas.

You're really not, there are many very nice items out there (certhechor for one) which offer morale, icpr, agility AND epic crit rating. A hunter cannot really ask for more and if you want to cap crit, 2xcerthechor is awesome.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

There's no right or wrong way and its all opinion, but I would never rate crit eye below swift and true or any other trait that affects a single skill when talking dps.

There are plenty of wrong ways

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Meh. Our dps effectiveness is achieved far more through rotation than any single skill. So again maximizing a single skill to me has less value. DPS is damage over time, not damage so if I'm going to be counting on doing sustained dps, I'm going to take into account other factors like icpr, power regen, focus generation, and induction speed. My IP can hit for 6k but if I have no power, or our of focus, it still hits for 0.

Our DPS effectiveness is achieved by building Focus and unleashing it as fast as possible. Penetrating Shot is numero uno skill for unleashing Focus points and epic DPS onto our enemies. DPS is Damage Per Second, damage over time is DoT.

You need to have power of course but if you have to resort to SotE for power you're screwed anyway. 500-800 power is going to last at most 20 seconds anyway, and you wasted 5 seconds of DPS to obtain that. We got pots and Deep Concentration and even Press Onward for 2k power if we must stop for power.

SotE is a waste of time, at most it is useful when a boss is inactive or to regen a tiny bit faster after a fight so you can sprint into the next.

Furthermore, you'd probably gain more power and focus by using Strong Draw over Earthborn anyway. SotE has 90 second cooldown, I'd say you get to use Pene Shot at least 20 times during those 90 seconds (thus once every 4-5 seconds if not more often). Lets use 20 for this example.

Hunter A uses Strong Draw, he does 20 Pene Shots to do X damage.
Hunter B uses Earthborn, he needs to do 22 Pene Shots to do X damage because he loses the extra 10% damage per shot.

Those 2 extra Penetrating Shots are worth 4-6 focus points and 200-400 power (and time wasted on doing those 2 extra shots), which is pretty much what Earthborn would give. So where Hunter A can just do 20 Pene Shots and use SotE if needed, Hunter B would need to do 22 Pene Shots and then use SotE to gain what he lost.
Even though the math here is very simplified, it illustrates my point that SotE is a waste of time and Earthborn only makes it worse compared to Strong Draw.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Critical Eye is always your first trait. When talking dps, never prioritize a trait that affects a singles skill over a trait that affects all or multiple skills.

Now here is the person who is unduly generalizing. Such a general statement can never be made, its correctness always depends on the exact numbers involved.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

8% bonus on SB plus the extra 15% on the third shot good? Yep. As good as overall crit rating? Nope.

Have you actually done the math?

Critical Eye will give you 0,9% crit. Let's be generous and assume this increases your DPS by 1%. Unlikely it will do more.
Swift and True increases your ISB damage by 8% on the first and second and for some unknown reason by more than 30% on the third shot. Look at your tooltip and molest a dummy a few times with and without the trait if you do not believe me. Likely that 8% boosts gets multiplied with the 15% for the third shot. But even with the 15% I think it is safe to assume that Swift and True will increase the damage of ISB by at least 10%.

Looking at my parses Swift bow routinely does more than 10% of the damage I am doing. So adding it all up Swift and True is the better trait than Critical Eye, even though it boosts only a single skill. Simply because it boosts that skill so much more.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

However if you're capping crit, especially without using critical eye, you're really sacrificing in other areas because the DR on crit after 20% is brutal. Or you can put in crit eys and build up other lacking areas.

What diminishing returns are you talking about? Once you have reached a crit chance of 15% your crit chance will raise linearly with your crit rating. And not in a brutal way, past 15% crit chance 1 point of crit rating is worth about 1,5 points of physical mastery. So I will gladly sacrifice 200 points of physical mastery for 200 points of crit rating.

Oh man I just thought about this. I'm going to have to write a new one up when RoR comes out.... Dang it. Whole new section on Mounted Combat.

Originally Posted by Sagit

No.

Just No.

Not all Hunter traits are equal. And from something labelling itself as guide I would have liked to have this pointed out.

Is it a good idea to unlock all class traits? Of course. You never know when you will need them.
Is it a good idea to at least know what each individual trait does? Of course, so you know your options when you need them.
Are they all equally useful? Definitely not.

I even dare to claim that at least for the Bowmaster and Huntsman line a good priority sequence can be given:

Bowmaster:
1. Swift and True
2. Fast Draw
2. Barbed Fury
4. Critical Eye
4. Swift Mercy
6. Hail of Arrows
6. True Shot
8. Shot through the Heart

Hail of Arrows can move up depend on the situation. It can rank somewhere between 2. and 6, but looses some of its merit on higher gear levels once crit rating is capped anyways.

Huntsmaster:
1. Deadly Precision
2. Strong Draw
3. Swift Recovery
4. Intent Concentration
4. Resolute Aim
4. Arrow Storm
7. Eathborn
7. Rapid Recovery

Again, Arrow Storm can rank higher when AoE is really needed. And unlike Hail of Arrows it actually becomes more valuable as gear level increases.

Deadly Precision, however, is basically mandatory now, and Strong Draw almost so as well. In any build.

This is a guide and everything has a place on the Hunter Skill and Trait listing. Just because YOU may not find something useful doesn't mean the guy next to you won't.

Thousands of people play Hunters and not everyone plays EXACTLY the same, thus placing all traits and skills out onto the playing field.

I for example don't PvMP much anymore and don't find certain PvP Traits (or those most PvP Hunters use) as useful to me as others may but in no way does that make a trait useless.

My guide isn't an absolution. It holds MUCH room for personnal experimentation. Please don't forget that applys to anything opinion based as well . Opinions are that. An opinion. NOT an absolution.

So to your list of traits. That is your opinion on whats important and nothing wrong with that. Although if your referring to my section on Trait Settups you may look into that a little more and see how it does mention that those are only a few examples of trait sets I have used. Not all of them. I have gone through so many trait sets over the years and settled on what I prefer and felt like sharing a few I have used over the times.

Ohai Pariah!!!


A short pvp guide... while in raids

~If your not using heightened senses, your doing something wrong (unless your red line I guess)
~Atleast run around in precicision stance. I get enough crits so that my 13% > 10% overall damage anyways, but switching to str is debatable
~I can reduce maybe 70% of incoming damage by running around with the westfold health tome per se, just dont be the clickable target

~A wise spider (Spideysense) once taught me this, but you really can't parry backwards, so stop running and use Eldars grace offensively. retreat sideways and trait tactical mits in your virtues because that's all thats out there

~Also from an RK (Esfiel), but compared to freep classes, our 40m is something to be jelly of So take as much advantage of it as possible, even if it means being a pansy sometimes



Also yay! I thought I was the only one who traited critical eye!

Oh hai dar Wargian

Bump Don't want this thread to disappear.... even though I disagree with most of the trait shtuff =)

I havn't updated the trait section in a long time but it is always room for player personnal alteration. I just put a few ideas up to give an idea and leave the rest to the players to do from that.

Thankyou for the bump though

Just a few setups I use =)

(didn't come up with epic names like you did though :/)

Good for pve dps and raid v raid pvp
4 red:
Swift and True
Swift Mercy
Fast Draw
Barbed Fury
3 blue:
Deadly Precision
Strong Draw
Swift Recovery (for pve) Resolute Aim (pvp)

Good for pve raid dps with the faron set or small group/solo moors
5 Blue:
Deadly Precision
Strong Draw
Swift Recovery
Deep Concentration
Resolute Aim or Arrow Storm

2 Red:
Swift and True
Swift mercy

Just my most used set ups people post your builds were interested in them! =)

Originally Posted by deaathgod

Just a few setups I use =)

(didn't come up with epic names like you did though :/)
Good for pve raid dps with the faron set or small group/solo moors
5 Blue:
Deadly Precision
Strong Draw
Swift Recovery
Deep Concentration
Resolute Aim or Arrow Storm

2 Red:
Swift and True
Swift mercy

Just my most used set ups people post your builds were interested in them! =)

If you are using the faron, I have a hard time understanding why you would not use the "True Shot" trait, wich reduces your opponent's mitigation vs Penetrating Shot by 8%. So this is indeed perfectly useless in landscape (most mobs have no armor), but can be very efficient in raids, since mobs and bosses have armor.

Why traiting it ? Because, and this is especially true with a "faron build", PS is your main damaging skil. Just watch this topic and take a look at my Bukot parse and Sheepscalp's Kalbak parse. You will notice that PS represents about 30% of your overall damage.

Now take a lot at this chart, that represents the effectiveness of True Shot (damage increase of PS, in %) depending of the target's base mitigation (it does NOT depend on your physical mastery).
You will notice that if your opponent has a 20% mitigation, this trait improves your PS damage by 10%.
I think that makes it a good trait to use

I know this may be debated, but in my case I find true shot to not contribute much damage as the bosses mits are almost zeroed out after bow chant breech finder and lm ancient craft. Pen shot is the center of my rotation, but adding almost no damage to something often used < alot of damage added to rarely used. Now the last time I tested this was when we were first trying ToO t2 in lightning (7 months agoish) so if something has changed please tell me. =)





Edit: clarify and shtuff

I must say you have a point for single target fights, the guy should have so many debuffs that True Shot might be completely useless. I'll probably take it off next time I do Iorweth (zerg) or Kâlbak and try to see if I can see a difference in my PS average damage.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention .
However, I'd keep it for Bukot (T2c) because I spend most of my time hitting everything but the boss, and I doubt roots and elhudans have zero armour (and the LM obviously can't debuff them all). I'd also take it for trash packs and possibly Saruman.


Edit : just realized that this has actually been discussed already... on this very topic (page 1), same questions and same conclusions. Next time, I'll read before I write !

Okay I parsing it seems that in single target fights, True Shot is basically useless, but for Skraids/foundry/anything with tons of un debuffed quick mobs it buffs pen shot damage by about 5%~ (will post exact parses when I get home using iphone atm) =)

True shot seems like it will have value for Rohan leveling, landscape mobs in Rohan have relatively high mitigation....

Originally Posted by Ampalaea

EDIT: I rarely run Skirmishes..is not a pleasant activity for me when play the Hunter. The reason is that I usually fight multiply mobs and they always reset my induction!Even in offensive Skirmishes, there are a lot of defend events where you cannot chose the battle and make good preparation..I always build focus and kill one of them fast but then it is frustrating. It isn't "hard" but it is not pleasant, for me at least..it isn't the play-style I am looking for my hunter.

I run with Herbalist and have put points on her. If someone can advice me for a solid trait setup and tips of making the fights go smoother it will be more than welcome. Currently I have 5 class trait slots open (level 42). I run with Fast Draw - Swift and True - Hail of Arrows - True Shot and Deadly precision. The plan is to build focus fast with criticals and to have a strong Penetrating shot, plus faster barbed fury and Swift shot..But I am new to hunter and haven't tried different setups to know the differences

I have just finished reading through this thread (btw great guide Pariah) and I would like to see this post answered by others. Here is my humble opinion: I have found that it is easiest just to go melee in skirms whenever I am forced into a melee position. My herbalist can heal through almost everything the basic skirm will throw at me if I kill it quickly. I open up with my normal ranged skill cycle, then as the baddies hit me I start whaling away with my melee skills, and all the PS and RoAs that my Blindside and Precision stance earn me.
A few other tips:
1)Its not a bad idea to get multi-traps. If you are a weapon-smith you can make them, if not find a friend or go to the AH and get a few. Placing one of these will tie up 3 mobs. Kill the remaining baddies, then pull the 3 caught in your trap off one at a time and kill them.
2)Make full use of your crowd control skills. At 42 you don't have much as 2 important cc skills are legendary traits(RoT and BA) and Distracting Shot doesn't come until 58. However, you do have Cry of the Predator and you can trait for in combat traps to tie up an extra mob.
Don't be afraid to go melee if you have to! You can use Blindside to build some focus along with sneaking in QS.
Let me know if you guys think I'm totally off!

Nice topic!

I have used old Official Game Guide-book to guide my going. I have noticed that somethings are changed after this game came to ”free to play” and when that book was written.

I would like to tell what this Guide book says about Hunter even there is many things that you have alreasy sayed.

It has also Combat and leveling guide but becouse game has changed little pit and that's why those info is maybe old now, I don't add those things to that Quote.

Originally Posted by Official Game Guide book, Prima Games

What is a Hunter?
Woodsman, pathfinder, and master of the bow, the keen-eyed Hunter can use his arrows to devastating effect from a distance. Hunter can lead his companions through the forest at greater speed than they could on their own, and can set up traps to ambush enemies.

Hunter Pros and Cons:
+ Long-ranged high DPS
+ Track creatures
+ Great run buff and traveling skills
+ Can set traps for creatures

- Trouble dealing with multiple mobs up close
- Melee is very weak compared to ranged
- No real combat skill upgrades in lower levels
- No healing in combat

Choosing a Race:
Each race can play the Hunter, and each race would be good for this class. Some races have lower Agility, which impacts ranged damage, miss change, critical hits, evade and some parry (split with might). But those races have stronger stats in different places, which may fit better with your play style, such as man*s higher Might score. If you expect to play a Race of Man Hunter. The most well-rounded Hunter in the game is the Man.

Your Best Stats:
As a Hunter , Agility, Vitality and Fate are your best friends.

Agility gives you the speed necessary to be an effective Hunter. This stat gives you the speed to evade and parry incoming blows. This is also a stat that adds to the amount of damge you will deal with a ranged weapon, a Hunter's bread and butter.

Fate is the stat that can mean life or death when in combat. With a high Fate, your momentum in combat will increase. This stat also influences your Morale and Power regeneration speed while in combat.

Vitality increases your Moral and gives you the ability to regenerate at a better rate when out of combat.

Ideal Vocation:

There is no one vocation geared for any particular class, so no class can be self-sufficient; you must socialize and work with others through the auction house or a kinship to fully experience the crafting professions. However, a unter can make a good Woodsman when you factor in all his strengths. Being a Woodsman allows Hunters to make all the items they truly need, the bow being the number one piece of equipment on their list. It's much easier to be a loner if you're able to live-nay, thrive!- while out stalking your prey.

So I made Race of Man, Hunter, Woodsman. I use crossbow against single or two opponent and bow if I have to take more than 2 opponents out. My ranged weapons are always up to date and main melee aswell. I use Spear in my main hand and dagger in second hand. I have made Captain armourer, what was my main 1st but now is my alt and I can crft medium armours to my Hunter with that alt. I have one jeweller friend and one weaponsmith friend so I don't have problems here. =)

I have been hunting hides from 6 lvl higher animals at near Esteldin with no problem IF I could pull them one by one and I was using trap.

As a Hunter I compare DPS when cheking new weapons so I can do good ammount of damge while opponent is still coming.

Still I have problems to defeat "bad signature monsters" if they have "ower powered morale" but I think that I have to check more vitality bonus items to my Hunter.

I have been lonely wolf so I need to learn how to play in group and how to keep agro against me in good way. In solo play I just use all my attack skills in particular rotation so I deffenetly don't know what deals how much agro.