Thread: New Burg Questions

I leveled my burg to 75 quite rapidly (less than two months). Whereas I have played my other two toons for three years, I am still obviously very, very new to the burg class. Worse yet (!) I pretty much soloed my way to level 75. This means I did little if any grouping. I also ran Gambler (b/c it's FUN and easy when soling).
Well....my burg is all grown up yet, and the lack of grouping is hurting my understanding of my class. So i have a few questions, i hope some people will be kind enough to take the time to answer.
First off, now that I will be grouping and doing raids and raid skirms more, I have re-traited to QK.
My questions are:
1. Improved feint Attack seems to be a highly coveted skill. Can someone please explain how it works and how to most effectively use it while grouping or in raids? (Yes, i have read the tiny description of the skill, but it confuses me).
2. My understanding of how we start conjunctions includes the Exploit, Trip (from stealth), Exposed throat, and marbles. How else can we start conjunctions? What are the most effective (i.e. least likely to be resisted) means of starting a conjunction? What is the least reliable means?
3. I was asked to assist in Draigloch a couple of times. I read in the forums, and saw for myself, that Hips does not work. What are our options for starting conjunctions in Draigloch? I am aware of Opening Exploit and marbles. What else am i missing? Is there a third of fourth way to start a conjunction in Draigloch? (I am envisioning when the skill "misses"). I know I cant go into Hips, but can I go into stealth and use trip?

I tend to read the forums a lot to educate myself, and I will continue to do so, but any extra tips, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Afuna

3. I was asked to assist in Draigloch a couple of times. I read in the forums, and saw for myself, that Hips does not work. What are our options for starting conjunctions in Draigloch? I am aware of Opening Exploit and marbles. What else am i missing? Is there a third of fourth way to start a conjunction in Draigloch? (I am envisioning when the skill "misses"). I know I cant go into Hips, but can I go into stealth and use trip?

You will not be in stealth in any body phase where you can use FMs. therefore you want to trait the Improved Feint Attack which you can use, and then immediately use 'Trip'.

Originally Posted by Afuna

1. Improved feint Attack seems to be a highly coveted skill. Can someone please explain how it works and how to most effectively use it while grouping or in raids? (Yes, i have read the tiny description of the skill, but it confuses me).

Feint Attack makes your next Surprise Strike work as if you had performed it while sneaking. This means that it inflicts more damage, especially when it crits. If you trait for Improved Feint Attack, its effect also applies to Cunning Attack,Provoke, and Trip.

Improved Feint Attack is also synergistic with the Gambler trait Leaf-walker, which gives your from-sneak Provoke the chance to daze your target for as long as a minute at the highest tier. Having these two traits obviously gives you an additional Riddle-like ability, which, with a set of burglar's tools imbued w/a fully ranked +% Gamble Chance legacy, has an 80% chance of activating.

It's a useful ability for crowd control, breaking inductions, and an additional on-demand conjunction opportunity.

Originally Posted by Afuna

2. My understanding of how we start conjunctions includes the Exploit, Trip (from stealth), Exposed throat, and marbles. How else can we start conjunctions? What are the most effective (i.e. least likely to be resisted) means of starting a conjunction? What is the least reliable means?

I think it's a close race between Trip and Exploit Opening being the most reliable conjunction starter. Exploit has a Physical resistance factor indicated in its tooltip, whereas Trip is indicated as a "melee skill." I think the implication is that Exploit is not subject to B/P/E, whereas Trip is. But Trip can bypass the Block factor by attacking from the rear of the target, while Exploit can offset physical resistance with Finesse.

I think the least reliable conjunction starter is Exposed Throat.

Originally Posted by Afuna

3. I was asked to assist in Draigloch a couple of times. I read in the forums, and saw for myself, that Hips does not work. What are our options for starting conjunctions in Draigloch? I am aware of Opening Exploit and marbles. What else am i missing? Is there a third of fourth way to start a conjunction in Draigloch? (I am envisioning when the skill "misses"). I know I cant go into Hips, but can I go into stealth and use trip?

As mentioned above, you can use Improved Feint Attack to open up Trip. So, you have Trip and Exploit. You can also use Ready and Able if you deem it necessary, and Exposed Throat if you're feeling lucky.

Originally Posted by Afuna

I tend to read the forums a lot to educate myself, and I will continue to do so, but any extra tips, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Keep your de/buffs up (watch for those resists), attack from behind at every opportunity, don't get aggro, then win.

Folks answered mostly in terms of Draigoch, but separately Improved Feint Attack is coveted for it's damage boost. Hit it, then run through your crit chain, hitting Aim to crit both Flashing Blades strikes, THEN use your from stealth attack before the timer of IFA runs out.

I agree that Trip and Exploit are most reliable, with Exposed Throat having a random chance but don't forget Marbles. You don't even need high level Marbles, low level ones will work just as fine, although all the Skarn in Dunland makes it easy to make those now.

However be sure to learn when MOBs have Conjunction (FM) and/or stun immunity! This is critical to not waste your CDs. Also realize that other classes may negate your FMs by stunning the MOB. There are two tiny red buffs that indicate immunity.

This is important if you are main healing a group, as LM stuns, horns blowing, and others all will negate possible CJs if they make the MOBs stun immune by stunning.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Sky is pretty much right on. Something I would add about Feint Attack is definitely get the major legacy cooldown on your weapon. Improved Feint Attack will have by default a 1 minute cooldown. With the legacy maxed, it subtracts 45 seconds, making the cooldown now 15 seconds.

Here's the deal with Feint Attack: It gives you a buff that lasts 10 seconds that improves damage by 5% and allows the next "from stealth attack" to be completed as though you were stealth. This opens up the ability to use trip without HiPSing, as in Draigoch. Here's the key for 99% of the time with FA. You DO not immediately use surprise strike, trip, cunning attack, or provoke. You have 10 seconds of +5% damage, as soon as you execute surprise strike, trip, cunning attack, or provoke the buff will disappear.

It's best to activate Feint attack, and use Subtle Stab, Burglar's Advantage, Double-edged Strike, Flashing Blades, etc. for about the first 7-8 seconds because they'll do +5% damage. Then you pop your Surprise Strike or Cunning attack before the buff disappears, making them do "from stealth" damage. 5 seconds later you can pop this attack again, essentially meaning 66% of the time you can do an additional +5% damage from attacks + the extra damage from the "from stealth" attack.

If running QK always run in the QK stance, trait at least 5 with capstone and use Flashing Blades. Get Addle cooldown. After you attack with flashing blades immediately queue (activate) the addle attack. This will not only interrupt the enemy but it will interrupt your long flashing blades animation, instead of waiting 3-5 seconds for the attack animation to finish before using another attack you can use Flashing Blades > Addle > (Some other attack here) almost within 2-3 seconds. Addle cooldown maxed will allow you to use Addle every 5 seconds. Easily thrown in there for the crit chains you want to use it for.

If you haven't learned it, the signal swapping from hotkeys to get 2x benefits is nice also on FMs, but isn't a necessary trick.

Keep positional as often as possible and stay on the DPS RAT (Raid Assist Target). I find Burglar's personally are the best class to take care of the occasional adds that jump on healers too, In my opinion. My minis or RKs call out they have an add on them, and since the Tank is busy with holding 6 other things, I break my attack for a few seconds, run over and riddle/FA provoke for disable/twist/confound the add attacking the mini. Usually it's long enough to hold them at bay or break their aggro on the healer and you're back in the mix 5 seconds later.

If you're fighting a boss that has CJ immunity by one of the indicated icons, it doesn't mean that the adds or smaller mobs are also immune. If your group needs health/power, pop an FM on one of the adds, it's just as effective as using it on the boss to restore morale/power. You can pop one on mob A, 10 seconds later do one on mob B, 10 seconds later do one on mob C if you wanted/needed to.

Post #2 - Explains best dps rotations in PvE and what Improved Feint Attack is and how you can get the most benefit out of it.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-%28grouped%29

Woe...you all are awesome. Thanks sooo much!

To be sure I understand IFA. When you pop it, you do not actually enter stealth mode, right? And you do not HAVE to enter stealth mode, right? You pop IFA, do some damage per the rotation suggested above, then if you use SS, CA, or something else, the IFA 'mimics' being in stealth?

So if I pop IFA, I do NOT need to go into stealth to use Trips? But I will start a FM b/c of the way the IFA skill works? Do I understand that correctly?

One of the reasons I am asking is that it "seems" as though the damage I do from actually stealth mode (e.g., sneak> aim> surprise strike) cause more damage than the IFA > (aim if it is up) > surprise strike. I expected the damage output to be equivalent. But maybe I am simply missing something.

IFA is faux-stealth; it unlocks stealth-only skills and buffs damage without actually putting you into stealth. The auto-crits of SS and CA don't work because beta testing showed it was op (crit SS from stealth every 15 seconds... yeah).

Your IFA + aim + SS hit could be lower for a number of reasons. Being in position for the subsequent hits is the most likely culprit. It's also possible you're using LiE for the first hit and it's either on cooldown or you're forgetting it in the heat of battle. I'm not 100% on this, but the weapon legacy +positional damage SS from stealth might not apply to IFA. Someone will have to fact check me.

A few other things to be aware of:

- Crits on dot skills make bigger bleeds that auto-stack with weaker ones
- Your burg signal affects Clever Retort, so getting a power restore while wielding a blue signal gives you more power
- The Dust in the Eyes slow is separate from the debuff so using a trick removal won't remove the slow
- Aim + Flashing Blades + queued SS will usually crit both attacks
- 5s addle is the only 5s ranged interrupt in the game. It's potent.
- Tricks and Reveal Weakness from multiple burgs stack. All-burg groups are hilariously fun and competitive.

Originally Posted by 8skyfaller

Improved Feint Attack is also synergistic with the Gambler trait Leaf-walker, which gives your from-sneak Provoke the chance to daze your target for as long as a minute at the highest tier. Having these two traits obviously gives you an additional Riddle-like ability, which, with a set of burglar's tools imbued w/a fully ranked +% Gamble Chance legacy, has an 80% chance of activating.

It's a useful ability for crowd control, breaking inductions, and an additional on-demand conjunction opportunity.

Do I understand this correctly? Using provoke from IFA will trigger a conjunction when leaf-walker is traited? I am aware of the mezz b/c I ran gambler for all of my leveling, while solo.

I did not know that using provoke from IFA in a group would trigger a conjunction. Am I reading this section correctly?

I do not have a lot of time to write now, but from what I read:

Exploit opening and IFA / HIPS + trip alongside marbles are the most reliable conjunction openers, I always prefer Exploit Opening.

However, in terms of quantity nothing gives as much as exposed throat. If in a fellowship with mobs that are not immune, I always spam ET and every ~1 minute it gives me a conjunction. I use Exploit Opening/Trip/Marbles only in cases of emergency where the group needs a heal, or power, or just a lot of extra damage...

Originally Posted by Afuna

Do I understand this correctly? Using provoke from IFA will trigger a conjunction when leaf-walker is traited? I am aware of the mezz b/c I ran gambler for all of my leveling, while solo.

I did not know that using provoke from IFA in a group would trigger a conjunction. Am I reading this section correctly?

I think he was trying to say that IFA in general does all of those things, as in: IFA+Provoke is good for CC/Interrupts and the IFA+Trip is good for triggering conjunctions.

IFA+Provoke does not trigger conjunctions.

Specifically addressing the question about starting CJs in the Dragon Raid:

If you trait 5 Quick Knife (and capstone Improved Feint Attack), IFA is removed from the Crit rotation and thus is available whenever the CD is up. This gives you three equally reliable ways (though any can be resisted) of starting CJ even without HiPS.

1. Exploit Opening
2. Improved Feint Attack immediately followed by Trip
3. Marbles (T6 L65 work fine)

If you get 2-3 resists in a row - I have had that happen - you can hit Ready and Able to reset EO & IFA.

As mentioned above, if you have the IFA Legacy, you can reduce the IFA cooldown to 15 seconds which means you can try that multiple times on resits [Though my TA L75 sword had that, sadly, my SA L75 sword did not get four A legacies and does not have that Hopefully the next one will!]

Have fun!

Marisibelle
Woman Burglar of Bree
Honoured Warrior of the White Lady