Thread: What the hunters need - A guide for ZC

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

"Some of my best friends are hunters?" lol

I guess if you are leveling a hunter and you have him alllllll the way to 50, I need to apologize. You're right you are an expert at the class.

tell me more of you being world expert on the hunter class

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

"Some of my best friends are hunters?" lol

I guess if you are leveling a hunter and you have him alllllll the way to 50, I need to apologize. You're right you are an expert at the class.

Please stop trolling, this is a thread for suggestions not trolls.

Improve press onwards, making it useable on the move.
add a hunter skill which adds 1 focus, can be used on the move
thats my suggestions to make my gameplay more fun

Originally Posted by Witch0King

Improve press onwards, making it useable on the move.
add a hunter skill which adds 1 focus, can be used on the move
thats my suggestions to make my gameplay more fun

This ^
It would be greatly useful in the moors. It would improve survivability and mobility which is what hunters need at the moment (for moors).

Originally Posted by Witch0King

Improve press onwards, making it useable on the move.
add a hunter skill which adds 1 focus, can be used on the move
thats my suggestions to make my gameplay more fun

I don't think we need a skill to increase focus, we have pots and skills to do this. But insta heal is good.

I would like to have a skill to decrease threat, not perceived threat or the endurance quick shot, a skill that would decrease your threat by the same amount in all stances ( maybe a bit more in endurance if you want ).

Originally Posted by alpha1445

Please stop trolling, this is a thread for suggestions not trolls.

Don't accuse me of trolling until you read the context of the argument. Here's what he said:

"Hunters was and still is OP in many ways"

Yet another creep coming to the hunter forums to tell us everything with hunters is just fine. Sorry but that is trolling to me and I'm sick of it.

If you want to but in at least please know what you are talking about before you start accusing others.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Don't accuse me of trolling until you read the context of the argument. Here's what he said:

"Hunters was and still is OP in many ways"

Yet another creep coming to the hunter forums to tell us everything with hunters is just fine. Sorry but that is trolling to me and I'm sick of it.

If you want to but in at least please know what you are talking about before you start accusing others.

./leavechannel glff

Originally Posted by Witch0King

Improve press onwards, making it useable on the move.
add a hunter skill which adds 1 focus, can be used on the move
thats my suggestions to make my gameplay more fun

yes fair adjustment for survivablilty... no major changes needed just simple tweaks... dont want op here...

I'd still vote for more responsiveness of skills such as BH, IC, Purge Poison, Blindside. An increased Damage of Agile rejoinder (+heal), Scourging Blow, Barbed Arrow Dot, Hunter's Art merged into Blood Arrow, and reduced to no induction on any CC that we have.

I rather have this then to mimic any heal and bubble mania others classes got.

What the Hunters need:

Step 1 - An announcement from Turbine that a new Hunter Dev. has been hired

Step 2 - Communication from that Dev. in the Hunter forums asking for our input on
A - Skills that are not working correctly
B - Skills that are not useful
C - new skills/revamped skills we would like to see
D - Changes needed for PvMP play
E - Update(s) to LI Legacies on Hunter weapons and class items

Step 3 - Actually implementing these changes and continuing to communicate with the Hunter community

New Hunter Dev. needs to be someone with a thick skin who can take a critical hit to their self-esteem and continue doing their job as if nothing happened (i.e. Continue to communicate with and accept the community feedback).

14) Hunter version of the Black Arrow's Skirmisher Stance
I hope this never happens. hunters doesnt need this skill and if they think they do they have to look up some pro hunters.

I like the sound of an on the move heal e.g. press onward esp for the moors. Why are we the only class that has an clunky induction for a heal? we are the agile class after all.

Also if we arent going to get DF back in the moors (which personally I think we should), how about a 50%chance immunity to roots, slows, stuns from low-cut we saw on the old pvp 75 armour set being added to a trait, or perma added to the skill. After all Legolas was pretty nifty and one of the main reasons we are not so competitive in the moors in melee is the slows we get. At least that would give us the chance to either kite & fight, get away, or run out of combat and DF.

Now that the old 75 pvp set has been nerfed weve lost that usefull little tidbit. Whack on 1 or 2 pvp relics an you have a 75% or 100% on low cut at the expense of normal relic buffs.

ZC, we're getting ever closer to RoR. An update from you would be much appreciated.


Been thinking a bit more about what new things I'd like to see in RoR.

1) A second look at your "bow & blade" Hunter concept. There must be some implementation of the idea that would work well. It could even be phased in slowly.

2) Reactive skills. In particular, I'm wondering if a defeat response skill could be appropriate for the Hunter. For example, an insta-heal that triggers when your Merciful Shot kills an enemy. I don't even have Merciful Shot on my toolbar anymore b/c I find Penetrating Shot more cost-effective. But I'd go back to using Merciful Shot for sure if it opened up some kind of beneficial reactive skill.

3) A fix for SotE. Not because I ever use it, but because it's symbolic of general neglect. Really, is there any good reason this hasn't been done yet?

4) Bright Campfire that adds different benefits than just higher regen rates. Resistance vs. shadow and fear effects seems thematically appropriate. (Sorry y'all...I know I can't shut up about this suggestion.)

5) Few (if any) new attack skills. I feel like I already have all the kinds of attacks I need. I'd rather see existing skills made better. I definitely don't want yet another bow attack. I could see the Hunter having one more melee skill, maybe. Otherwise, give me thematic utility skills like tracking, poison cure, +run speed, and campfires.


If you dislike ALL of these suggestions, okay ZC. But please say so! I pledge to keep things civil, for my part, if you'll break the long silence.

Originally Posted by Issachar44

1) A second look at your "bow & blade" Hunter concept. There must be some implementation of the idea that would work well. It could even be phased in slowly.

2) Reactive skills. In particular, I'm wondering if a defeat response skill could be appropriate for the Hunter. For example, an insta-heal that triggers when your Merciful Shot kills an enemy. I don't even have Merciful Shot on my toolbar anymore b/c I find Penetrating Shot more cost-effective. But I'd go back to using Merciful Shot for sure if it opened up some kind of beneficial reactive skill.

3) A fix for SotE. Not because I ever use it, but because it's symbolic of general neglect. Really, is there any good reason this hasn't been done yet?

4) Bright Campfire that adds different benefits than just higher regen rates. Resistance vs. shadow and fear effects seems thematically appropriate. (Sorry y'all...I know I can't shut up about this suggestion.)

5) Few (if any) new attack skills. I feel like I already have all the kinds of attacks I need. I'd rather see existing skills made better. I definitely don't want yet another bow attack. I could see the Hunter having one more melee skill, maybe. Otherwise, give me thematic utility skills like tracking, poison cure, +run speed, and campfires.


If you dislike ALL of these suggestions, okay ZC. But please say so! I pledge to keep things civil, for my part, if you'll break the long silence.

I agree with all of these. A reactive heal would add a bit of survivability to hunters without making them OP. SotE is a no-brainer, and Bright Campfire has soooo much potential to be a cool utility skill. Most importantly though, I'm glad you articulated a common feeling in the hunter community and on this thread - we don't need more attack skills! More/improved utility skills and some tweaked traits would really make the hunter class much better, in my opinion. As easy as it is to exaggerate, the hunter class isn't that far off the mark...

ZC, you've laid some solid foundations for a potent and fun class - the hunter's toolbox is pretty comprehensive, and we have most of our bases covered. But the tools are rusty. What would be most appreciated, I think, are some adjustments to our existing skills, rather than the implementation of new ones. There've been some great ideas put forward on this thread and elsewhere, and I know you have your own vision for the class as well. But please come back to us and let us know where things stand!

Pretty please?

Melee skills should add focus (respectively, i.e. 1 for Swift Stroke, 1 for Low Cut per target struck, 2 for Scourging blow on a crit 3 for blindside [if the bow attack crits it should add another pip] and 2 for agile rejoiner)

Melee skills only add focus when Needful Haste is NOT active. Or like this is another skill that costs 3 focus to use on a 30s duration (with a legacy on a MH weapon) with a 1 minute cooldown. So it would be like NH for 30s > MA (Melee Acuity is what i'll call it) for 30s > NH > MA > NH > MA and so on.

This would help us with our "uselessness" we feel when we have mobs/creeps on us and cant get off an induction (due to NH being on cooldown with its 1 min cd and 30s duration). Make us use our melee skills to use our focus skills.

This idea is just a suggestion, but it would be pretty cool.

If Blindside did something spectacular on a crit, then the Blindside Crit Legacy wouldn't be useless.

Originally Posted by Eckenbrand

If Blindside did something spectacular on a crit, then the Blindside Crit Legacy wouldn't be useless.

They should just change it to Melee Critical Rating instead if this change were to be implemented.

Originally Posted by Eckenbrand

If Blindside did something spectacular on a crit, then the Blindside Crit Legacy wouldn't be useless.

They should fasten up that bloody animation. Cut it in half and make it immediate or fast at least, this would allow for a decent rotation.

Desperate Flight in the Ettenmoors while in-combat!!!

Also, Flayer wargs can interupt Hobbit-Silence...I'm done with the game until they fix those 2 things.

Originally Posted by Zombie_Columbus

Good thread. I'll give my thoughts on the top 10.

1) Bright Campfire is changed to provide more In-combat and OOC buffs
The OOC regen amounts were nearly doubled in the last update, but I'll take another look at them. In-combat is an interesting idea, perhaps wrap this into the Trapper Line somehow...

2) Hunter's Art is changed
My thought for Hunters Art are:

• Slightly increase damage
• Re-work buff a little: Now lasts for 30 seconds. Instead of stacking multiple effects, it now tiers up and refreshes duration, much like a RK's Writs.

3) Split Shot is changed
My thoughts for Split shot are:

• Stop the additional target legacy from effecting it (This was added near the end of beta, and was the reason the damage and radius had to be reduced, the skill was just WAY too strong. Removing the legacy lets us make the skill more exciting in other ways...)
• Modify it to give +1 focus per target hit
• Slightly increase radius
• Slightly increase damage

4) Adjust or blow up the Trapper Line
I'm really hesitant here. The amount of CC and fellowship-damage buffs in the line, plus the complete removal of the old damage penalties, and loosening of the stance restrictions, makes for a potent combination. I fully admit that the Trapper line from days past was sub-par, but even then there were players who were able to do some impressive things with it. My sense is that the opposition to this line is more based on gut then experience.

5) Induction/focus crit and power legacies are consolidated, one for crit, one for power
I'd like to make a pass on Legacies, but I can't promise when. The fact remains that Hunter DPS is high, and consolidation will push it higher, so it's a difficult place to be in. In previous Hunter updates the class was behind the curve, allowing me to hand out buffs more freely.

6) Scale and/or update Heartseeker and Shot Through The Heart
Can you be more specific? Do you mean damage increase? Cause Heartseeker seems just fine to me...

7) Ranged Interrupt
Sorry, Hunters will not be getting an additional Interrupt.

8) Buff Quickshot (on the move, no induction and/or stanceless slow)
Unlikely to see significant change here. Induction-less was attempted during beta and it was too problematic to stay around. As for on the move, such a change would need to be paired with a range reduction, or a reduction in the potency of the Hunters slows. This is not a direction we are planning on moving in.

9) Blindside's interrupt comes at the beginning of the animation
Will do, absolutely.

10) Needful Haste's pre-ROI duration is restored
If Needful Haste is not worth using in the new state, it can be buffed.


The topics I'm most interested in hearing feedback about are my ideas on Split Shot and Hunters Art, and to hear from players who used to use Trapper before RoI, and how they feel the line has changed since.

Edit: Just to clarify, things I'm talking about here are potentials for Update 6. Update 5 is very much put to bed at this point.

Just wondering, what are you working on now for hunters and when can we expect said changes.
Just a quick answer would go a long way here, seeing that we haven't heard from you in 7 months.

Originally Posted by yoda-

Just wondering, what are you working on now for hunters and when can we expect said changes.
Just a quick answer would go a long way here, seeing that we haven't heard from you in 7 months.

He won't reply. And I am so confident he won't do so, that I will donate my car to someone if he replies in the next week.

Surely the fact that he has not replied in 7 months would have told you the same.

Originally Posted by zalladi

He won't reply. And I am so confident he won't do so, that I will donate my car to someone if he replies in the next week.

Surely the fact that he has not replied in 7 months would have told you the same.

I figured we should keep trying, instead of just giving up.
A (possibly well-deserved) negative attitude won't get us anywhere either. I prefer to give him this little poke and see if he's still alive.
If he's not replying now, I'll just try again in a month or so. As I don't know what else I can do.

Hey guys, I was thinking about it and found something we may use - how about making desperate flight fellowship wide!

Originally Posted by MightyKOko

Hey guys, I was thinking about it and found something we may use - how about making desperate flight fellowship wide!

It's just crazy enough to work!

Originally Posted by yoda-

I figured we should keep trying, instead of just giving up.
A (possibly well-deserved) negative attitude won't get us anywhere either. I prefer to give him this little poke and see if he's still alive.
If he's not replying now, I'll just try again in a month or so. As I don't know what else I can do.

We'll probably just get a Dev Diary.Improved Hunter's Art,Imp.Split Shot,Imp.Barbed Arrow(or something else)being the new skills.Also stuff about how our class is ok and how exciting it will be to be a Hunter in mounted combat.

Originally Posted by yoda-

I figured we should keep trying, instead of just giving up.
A (possibly well-deserved) negative attitude won't get us anywhere either. I prefer to give him this little poke and see if he's still alive.
If he's not replying now, I'll just try again in a month or so. As I don't know what else I can do.

Play another class. Each of them has recently been given some love...even the RK, whom the Developer is ZOMBIE_COLUMBUS, was given an update not too long ago, and had the developer asking around in his forums for a while on what to change.

There can be only one answer: hunters are already giving too much feedback

Where's Group DF on this list?

On a constant basis my pen shot hits significantly harder than my merciful shot and heartseeker, has anyone else noticed this? Making merc shot and HS not even worth firing. Why on earth do we have a graphic that shows we are HS someone even from stealth, another reason not to use it, does any other class thats stealthed let people know your gonna get shot etc.. Give hunters some sort of speed boost to help them get away from combat since all our slows dazes stuns can be potted in the moors and we cant df we are the only class out there that is on farm status there is nothing that runs from us except greenies, for gods sake arent we supposed to be one of the fastest creatures in ME. We have no surviveability so we are forced to grp in the moors well alot of times there isnt a grp available or maybe I want to solo I am a hunter can I hunt somthing no I run from everything. If we cant have DF in moors we need somthing to get away I am constantly zerged by solo BAs who hit evade and skirmish and ruch me into my own npcs kill me and the run out, UH OP YEAH, I cant even get away if i choose not to fight with full health, brand, store bought brand, heal pot and store bought heal over time! A 1 hour cool down on df in combat was too OP have you tried killing a warg latley if they dont kill me and i happen to get lucky or they just plain are not skilled yet they hips and run off. Tracking skills why cant hunters track anything why do they have to screw up there trait line to track 4s in the moors we are hunters!! let us track! All in all hunters in pve setting are fine, but i would challenge the devs to play one in the moors for a few days and see how they like it. Why do we continue to support ICPR for hunters or reduced power perks for armor sets it is completley worthless, Oh and stats most classes stack there main attribute and vit why do we get none of this if we want to do damage we sacrifice alot of morale we cant keep up with creeps that have 40% more morale or more and can pop evade, or heal. and with the new damage boost coming for creeps i expect ill almost be dead after im pounced from a warg, they already take over a 3rd of my health. Something cncerning store brands and pots does there really need to be a headshake animation that lasts just over a second when I pot or brand isnt the reason for this is to get me out of the stun, seconds count in pvp and those delays make me waste what I have purchased makes no sense to me. I am a lifer for lotro but I have come to enjoy pvp alot and have seriously questioned wether or not I can continue to play my hunter or at all. I dont want to be OP I just want to be competitive.

Originally Posted by Skoshia

, for gods sake arent we supposed to be one of the fastest creatures in ME.........

I often wonder how a lumbering uruk with a bow has more evade than me, an elf!

Originally Posted by Skoshia

I have come to enjoy pvp alot and have seriously questioned wether or not I can continue to play my hunter or at all. I dont want to be OP I just want to be competitive.

Maybe thats their tactic, limit hunters in the moors. ZC is always making references about being scared to make us being OP.

So we have our DF nerfed and wargs get a reduction in hips, we got no escape and BAs got moving target, we have a crazy legendary self heal and everyone gets an instant one, we cant track from horseback but store tracks can, camo is one our main defence but now we can be constantly store tracked, we are squishy and there are light armour classes with more survivability.

What we do have is pew pew in bundles, and ZC has made us more mobile with fleetness for a machine gun penetrating shot, but that is the big dilemma for the devs. Our pew pew has made them too scared to make us survivable.

My advice would be: A. get some +stealth gear you can switch into, stealth a lot solo behind stuff, use crafted tracks and every store-brand u can muster. B. group up with some fellows who understand how to play with hunters. Running with suicidal heavies who dont understand that we need to stealth, hit and run gets us killed. C. run with the zerg and pew pew

Bump, even longer on us asking for changes.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

even longer on us asking for changes.

I think we aught to re-use this as the new suggestions thread


MY SUGGESTIONS:

1: make yellow line a ranged off-tanking line
2: re-work red line to give it some falvor (like making it our extra-long-range-long-induction-line (raises range to 60m)
3: re-work blue line to allow low-damage-fast-shooting on the move damage.

Originally Posted by Lendas

...(raises range to 60m)

HHhhahahahaha sure, but why so little? Lets go full &&&&&& and make it 200m aoe!


Sorry but i cant take this thread seriously. You want things like:
-buff to dmg (being top single target dps class in game is not enough?)
-heavy armour(??) - you want to offtank now?
-Return Desperate Flight to the Ettenmoors - because dying is for creeps, right?
-sprint - it will be surely very useful while spaming PShots and running around helpless creeps
-BA skills, because obviously hunters and ba's are mirrored classes (do you want ba's dps too? hmmmm..)
-of course tracking skill should be passive just like wargs' ...wait, what?

Only thing that hunters need right now is that sucky, yellow line revamp, fixes to few useless skills (hello hunters art) and thats it! You dont like dying in moors - team up with cpt, minstrel and wreak havoc.

/rant

Originally Posted by gunlang

HHhhahahahaha sure, but why so little? Lets go full &&&&&& and make it 200m aoe!


Sorry but i cant take this thread seriously. You want things like:
-buff to dmg (being top single target dps class in game is not enough?)
-heavy armour(??) - you want to offtank now?
-Return Desperate Flight to the Ettenmoors - because dying is for creeps, right?
-sprint - it will be surely very useful while spaming PShots and running around helpless creeps
-BA skills, because obviously hunters and ba's are mirrored classes (do you want ba's dps too? hmmmm..)
-of course tracking skill should be passive just like wargs' ...wait, what?

Only thing that hunters need right now is that sucky, yellow line revamp, fixes to few useless skills (hello hunters art) and thats it! You dont like dying in moors - team up with cpt, minstrel and wreak havoc.

/rant

well considering we are no longer top sustained dps i would like for 1 of our lines to be that.

-offtank for less dps? that sounds good for yellow line. chop dps in half and make us ranged tanks.
-sprint would be good since currently we cant really get out of melee at all.... will still not help VS the ranged creeps though.
- well considering a load of BA skills where suggested on hunter forums (not least of which is explosive arrow, mercy shot knockdown, and skirmisher
- yes we would like innate track, its not like wargs are underpowered right now are they?


and sure.... we need to team up with a healer to do anything.... wow.

get out of here troll.

Originally Posted by Lendas

2: re-work red line to give it some falvor (like making it our extra-long-range-long-induction-line (raises range to 60m).

Only, and ONLY if, BAs can equip a trait which does the same.

Originally Posted by Witch0King

Only, and ONLY if, BAs can equip a trait which does the same.

its only fair. i would add +20m range to keen eye and remove the slow while increasing inductions and damage and adding inductions to all non-inducton skills. (similar to what i have in mind for red-hunter.