Thread: Heart of Fire Critical Defense Bonus Working??

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but I went back a few pages and didn't see any notes on it... A couple other guards and I were chatting about the yellow capstone, Heart of Fire, with the question being, "is the critical defense bonus passive or do you have to use Take to Heart in order to proc it?".

After slotting the capstone, I could see that the tooltip for Take to Heart included the lower cooldown and reduced morale cost, however there was no note about the critical defense bonus. I also noted that there was no increase to crit def bonus in my character sheet just for equipping it, so I decided on a field test.

I used Take to Heart on a mob and watched for an icon to appear under my character portrait, which there was none. I also immediately checked for updates in my character sheet to any of my defensive scores which there was also none. I even tried closing and reopening the character sheet just in case it might be required to update.

Conclusion: Guards currently receive no critical defense bonus from slotting the legendary trait Heart of Fire. OR - There is simply a bug preventing players to receive any indication that we are receiving any benefit.

Appreciate anyone's input.

I could have sworn that the last time I traited that (last week) it showed an increase in my crit defense when I slotted it.

As above, when I slotted the Trait last week, it increased my Crit Defence.

Likewise; I'm almost certain I specifically checked and saw an increase within the last couple of weeks.

i recall looking at this the other day and finding something odd about it. like the stat didn't show up in the tooltip, but the percentage did.
i can't recall exactly, and i'm not on the game at the moment, but i'll confirm later.

I'm in game now, and can confirm that the ratings on the character panel are not changing as I add/remove yellow line traits. The percentages in the mouse-over tool tips ARE increasing though.

Base crit avoidance is 3120: -9.5% crit, -3.0% dev
with 3 yellows: -10.3% crit, -3.3% dev
with 4 yellows: -11.1% crit, -3.6% dev
with Heart of Fire: -12.7% crit, -4.2% dev

The character panel always shows an avoidance rating of 3120 though.

The Heart of Fire trait adds ratings to the individual Melee/Ranged/Tactical Critical Defence ratings. This is why the individual percentages go up but the rating on the character panel is unchanged. We'll get it fixed.

Originally Posted by Nicepants42

I'm in game now, and can confirm that the ratings on the character panel are not changing as I add/remove yellow line traits. The percentages in the mouse-over tool tips ARE increasing though.

Base crit avoidance is 3120: -9.5% crit, -3.0% dev
with 3 yellows: -10.3% crit, -3.3% dev
with 4 yellows: -11.1% crit, -3.6% dev
with Heart of Fire: -12.7% crit, -4.2% dev

The character panel always shows an avoidance rating of 3120 though.

The "Defence Points" in the tool-tip goes up as well so it's probably just a bug that the character sheet doesn't update

Originally Posted by Graalx2

The Heart of Fire trait adds ratings to the individual Melee/Ranged/Tactical Critical Defence ratings. This is why the individual percentages go up but the rating on the character panel is unchanged. We'll get it fixed.

Yeah, I seem to recall you posting that before somewhere, thanks for confirming again.

Now, can you give us any clue as to the crit ratings that Lieutenants/Bosses generally have?

Also, does crit defense function similar to finesse, in that the rating is converted to a % before being applied, or is the crit defense rating simply subtracted from the attacker's crit rating?

I get the feeling that you've answered most of this before, but not since RoI, that I've seen. Thanks again!

Critical Defence still works on the ratings. Critical Rating - Critical Defence = Rating to convert into percentages.

The base critical rating for a level 75 Arch-Nemesis is 7300. I don't know how much use that number is as the content designers are free to add or subtract to change the difficulty of an encounter.

Just wanted to say thanks to Graalx2 and everyone else for their time and posts. Greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Graalx2

Critical Defence still works on the ratings. Critical Rating - Critical Defence = Rating to convert into percentages.

The base critical rating for a level 75 Arch-Nemesis is 7300. I don't know how much use that number is as the content designers are free to add or subtract to change the difficulty of an encounter.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Graalx2

Critical Defence still works on the ratings. Critical Rating - Critical Defence = Rating to convert into percentages.

The base critical rating for a level 75 Arch-Nemesis is 7300. I don't know how much use that number is as the content designers are free to add or subtract to change the difficulty of an encounter.

Now THAT is cool info to have. Much thumbup!

Originally Posted by Graalx2

Critical Defence still works on the ratings. Critical Rating - Critical Defence = Rating to convert into percentages.

The base critical rating for a level 75 Arch-Nemesis is 7300. I don't know how much use that number is as the content designers are free to add or subtract to change the difficulty of an encounter.

Thanks Graalx!

ETA: Had a thought. It sounds like Crit Def more or less works like Finesse did in its original incarnation. This would mean that the reason Finesse went to a %-reduction system would apply to crit def.

Namely, as you back down the crit rating curve, taking a mob to progressively smaller crit rating numbers, the next point of crit def. will reduce a mob's crit % by more than the last point of crit def. It also means that small amounts of crit def mean much less than large chunks until you get to higher numbers. A common example of this would be the crit def that minnies and guards get from their shields. Right now, heavy shields cap out around 1600 crit def and light shields cap out around 800 crit def (roughly). even thought the minnie has half the crit def of the guard, they dont get half the % crit chance reduction. It would be somewhat less than that depending on the crit curve (which I dont have in front of me).

Now, this may be WAI since crit def is a defensive stat and not an offensive one. Also, sources of Crit Def are relatively few and far between compared to Finesse. However, since crit % is a diminishing returns curve, anything that subtracts from it 1:1 is going to behave in a logarithmic manner and will, at the far end of the scale, run away (the whole "your next point of crit def reduces your opponent's crit chance by more than your last point of crit def").

Actually...on even further thought this probably is WAI. For a given amount of crit rating, it would create a "pivot point" of crit def, where if your under that point then added crit def has a less measurable result but beyond that point increasing the amount has increasing effect. That is...a squishy will still feel squishy (below the pivot point) but a tank wouldnt (beyond the pivot point)

this would be a static point for a given level when coming from the low end of the cuve, but would be relative coming from the high end (which is the end that crit def affects). So what you would have to do is make sure that crit def scales up with mob crit rating such that "heavies" stay beyond the inflection point and "squishies" dont get past it.

Hmm...interesting.

Originally Posted by Seedly

Actually...on even further thought this probably is WAI. For a given amount of crit rating, it would create a "pivot point" of crit def, where if your under that point then added crit def has a less measurable result but beyond that point increasing the amount has increasing effect. That is...a squishy will still feel squishy (below the pivot point) but a tank wouldnt (beyond the pivot point)

this would be a static point for a given level when coming from the low end of the cuve, but would be relative coming from the high end (which is the end that crit def affects). So what you would have to do is make sure that crit def scales up with mob crit rating such that "heavies" stay beyond the inflection point and "squishies" dont get past it.

Hmm...interesting.

What it does mean is that Guardians benefit greatly (too much imo) from being able to achieve slightly higher crit defense than Wardens/Champions. And people who have the old relics benefit even more .

Originally Posted by Nicepants42

Now, can you give us any clue as to the crit ratings that Lieutenants/Bosses generally have?

Around 15-20% based on what I've seen.

Thank you for the clarification Graalx.

Originally Posted by Evendale

Around 15-20% based on what I've seen.

Im going to go with 19.7%...

Does this:

Originally Posted by Nicepants42

Base crit avoidance is 3120: -9.5% crit, -3.0% dev
with 3 yellows: -10.3% crit, -3.3% dev
with 4 yellows: -11.1% crit, -3.6% dev
with Heart of Fire: -12.7% crit, -4.2% dev

The character panel always shows an avoidance rating of 3120 though.

together with this piont:

Originally Posted by Graalx2

Critical Defence still works on the ratings. Critical Rating - Critical Defence = Rating to convert into percentages.

mean, that this is more than a simple UI Bug
or does the system behind the unchanged "3120" know the real ratings?

graal's first post should answer your question, yeah?

Originally Posted by Graalx2

The Heart of Fire trait adds ratings to the individual Melee/Ranged/Tactical Critical Defence ratings. This is why the individual percentages go up but the rating on the character panel is unchanged. We'll get it fixed.