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  1. #1
    Senior Member Online status: Reximus is offline Reputation: Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte
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    Lightbulb Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Despite many of the improvements made to the system, the overall system still hasn't delivered on its original premise of giving us a Legendary weapon that levels with us. Think Sting, Glamdring, Orcrist, and Narsil.

    Legendary Items in game are little more then mass produced junk that through luck and/or grinding we try to mold into a decent item, until we get a Second or First Age and then we start all over. This would be like Aragorn Melting down Narsil every time he enters a new area, or Gandalf came back from his battle with the Balrog and instead of Glamdring he said "Look at my new lootz yo!" with his new First Age sword "Pwnzored".

    I realize that the Devs are pretty happy with the system now, but I will say I'm not, and I know others are not as well. Its hard to feel that the system is legendary when the reality is 100% of everything we get through it either is junk, or will become junk. And with very little variety in appearance, it just feels like a bunch of mass produced garbage shipped in from some dwarf assembly line.

    Some high level ideas for how the system can be improved:

    The Legendary item system should start much earlier on in the game, maybe in the form a revised class quest.

    Legendary Items should be for our Main Hand, Off Hand, and Ranged weapon slots. 2H weapons would have more stats/legacies to balance out 1H weapons.

    Legendary items should truly grow with us, and work more like the Skirmish Solider system, with panels to allow us to customize its looks, legacies, secondary stats, relics, and titles. This system could also allow us to retrait our weapons as we might retrait ourselves depending on what we are doing.

    Looks could be customized by allowing us to drop a weapon of the same type into a cosmetic slot. Other legacies and abilities can be earned as we level though getting new bits to forge into our weapon, or via deeds, or faction reps, or combinations of these things.

    Current 3rd Age drops should become more generic and be something like the Symbols of Celebrimbor, and since we would just continually be upgrading existing items, they could be much rarer so that they feel special instead of feel like junk. Symbols of Celebrimbor, et al, would be used once per tier to upgrade the weapon in some way, still giving the drops value. Maybe they up the weapon from 3rd to 2nd to 1st age, and in future tiers add more points for legacies, or even add the ability to slot more legacies, allowing those classes that might have a secondary weapon for buffing or whatnot to not have to carry so many spares.

    It would be totally fine to keep a lot of the current grind, or even add a bit more, if we actually had some more control and our weapon truly was a Legendary companion like those in LOTR.

  2. #2
    Grand Member Online status: oldbadgerbrock is offline Reputation: oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads oldbadgerbrock the Watcher of Roads
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    I would be happy if they eliminated the LI system altogether; it's turned out to be a HUGE grind. Yes, they've made some tweaks so that we can obtain the legacies we want without trying to find the proverbial needle in the haystack, and made it possible for us to maximize those legacies, but at the cost of having to endlessly repeat the same skirmishes over and over and over to be able to acquire the necessary barter items.

    They play a game with us with each content update. They make 2nd Age LIs difficult to obtain so that we have to invest the time and effort to improve a 3rd Age. Then they make 2nd Age LIs more readily available so that we'll devote hours and hours to improving those. Finally they make 1st Age LIs available. Then the next level cap increases comes and it's back to the square one. Back on the wheel little hamsters!

    Occasionally they throw in a nasty trick of devaluing the relics we've devoted countless hours to acquiring so that we'll have to grind a bit more there, or better yet (in their view), visit the Turbine Store to purchase a shortcut. Or make it so we have to spend TP to reclaim the relics we've earned by no longer returning them upon reforge.

    I much preferred it when the best weapons were crafted by players, or were obtained via raid like the Rift of Nûrz Ghâshu.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Online status: Morbeleg is offline Reputation: Morbeleg the Wary Morbeleg the Wary Morbeleg the Wary Morbeleg the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    I think calling the items for Legendary was a bad call, since in reality they are only slightly better than crafted regular weapons. Stating they would grow with us was also not a good way to phrase it, as we even back on MoM launch saw different dps ranges on weapons depending on the item level.
    The bonuses and such is what defines them as good, and in that respect the system works.

    Im having a internal debate on the suggestion you come with to make our efforts stay with us more than they do now.
    Im leaning on no, since the system has some small things needing fix, not a whole new system to replace it which would equal much dev time. I prefer dev time spent on development of new instances, expansions, content etc, see how the expansion missed in that regard.
    Right now, the LI system is fairly intricate, and we know what we have. Do you trust turbine to come up with something better, especially if it would lose them the recurrent sales of store scrolls?
    No, a small edit to the current UI and system should suffice.
    The reset when we get +10 levels is of course sad when you have the uber 1st age maxlevel item and dont want to go back to a temporary 3rd ager. Consider this though. Before mines of moria, getting a few levels would have you upgrade your weapons and dump the old ones. Same now happen with the LI weapons, only they are different in stats and you gotta work to get those stats up.
    In every other game when you have expansions, you get new gear on everything. I think we lotro players perhaps whine too much in this regard. Lets ask for whats sensible, not what would spoil us. There will be grind if you want perfection.

    Only change I want to the LI system now to make it good is removing the inability of major legs to replace a minor leg, and more sensible(desirable) passive stats on those items that have them. The first item should be trivial to fix for the devs, the other only require them to use thir brains when setting up the table the LI roll on for passive stats.

    Edit: Changed my mind on this. In fact the LI system was a deciding factor in making me plot a jump to SWTOR.
    A more lets say forthright statement about what I now think about the problem of lotro here
    Last edited by Morbeleg; Dec 06 2011 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Change of heart

  4. #4
    Senior Member Online status: Reximus is offline Reputation: Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Just because the system actually grows with us doesn't mean that there can't be store items worth selling. In a new system were you can change appearance or the secondary stats, both those items can be sold in the store, as well as scrolls to rank up the legacies as there is now.

    The current system is a massive grind on disposable items that are just better enough then non-LI that you are forced into working on them, and if you don't have ton of time, you don't ever even get to a plateau before it becomes junk. This puts the system beyond a few tweaks.

  5. #5
    Poster of Note Online status: Kheld_GB is offline Reputation: Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated Kheld_GB the Undefeated
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Threads like this are a waste of time. Turbine have cancelled the LI revamp Part 2 as they are happy with the LI system the way it is.

    Its a nice cash cow they can milk.

    We will see if they are still as happy when SW:Tor comes about. Allegedley there you can upgrade your favourite weapons from level 1 to 50. THAT sounds Legendary to me.
    Hunter & alts on Snowborne since 2007.

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  6. #6
    Grand Member Online status: deeman25845601 is offline Reputation: deeman25845601 the Neophyte deeman25845601 the Neophyte deeman25845601 the Neophyte deeman25845601 the Neophyte deeman25845601 the Neophyte deeman25845601 the Neophyte deeman25845601 the Neophyte deeman25845601 the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Agree with the poster above. Turbine doesn't care what their players want.

  7. #7
    Post Master Online status: Yula_the_Mighty is online now Reputation: Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow Yula_the_Mighty a Light from the Shadow
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reximus View Post
    I realize that the Devs are pretty happy with the system now, but I will say I'm not, and I know others are not as well.
    At this points the folks are unhappy have the following choices:

    1) Use the existing system as is.

    2) Avoid the Legendary item system as you play the game

    3) Wait for a few minor tweaks going forward. I suspect the tweaks will be new items like additional types of relics.

    4) Go play a different game because the current LI system is a deal breaker.

    All your feedback is great. I like it also. It been given to Turbine. Turbine has read it. Turbine decided that they are not going to implement it.

    IMHO - The biggest issue currently is that there is not enough noise from the customer base demanding additional changes. It could be that the changes made moved enough people from riot state to happy. It could be that people quit the game - by leaving these customers solved Turbine's issue. It could be that the customers got tired of fussing - ran out of steam.

    Turbine gets more complaints about Yula types bothering their characters with festival goodies than complaints about the LI system. I do not see any movement of the festival goodie front.

    Bottom Line - Unless Turbine starts getting 100+ post threads one after another on the current LI system, nothing going to happen.


    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Online status: N.Legler is offline Reputation: N.Legler the Wary N.Legler the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    TOR: The first lightsaber I acquire I can continue to upgrade up to and including endgame.
    LOTRO: The first Legendary Dagger I acquire is replaced as soon as possible, and every other level afterwards, until endgame, when I'll replace it at least twice more.
    One of these virtual items seems 'legendary.'

  9. #9
    Member Online status: Silverbrow is offline Reputation: Silverbrow the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Dear Turbine,
    Expect this game to become a ghost-town after Swtor launches. I for one am tired of asking for changes that would significantly add to the immersiveness of this game. (read housing and a real LI system). I'm already FTP and you will not see another dime from me as you truly do not care to address issues I (the paying customer), feel are important.
    Disappointedly yours,
    Corewyn

    Edited for poor spelling.
    Last edited by Silverbrow; Nov 04 2011 at 08:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Online status: defrule is offline Reputation: defrule the Wary defrule the Wary defrule the Wary defrule the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    A system where you can retrait an LI would be great, people can start trying different setups.

    If I want to try a full tanking LI on my champion, I can't without spending months getting the legacies and empowerment scrolls. That or I level a second tanking weapon but it defeats the whole purpose of LI's being legendary.

    I'd rather have 1 weapon and 1 rune which can be easily repurposed to my needs rahter than having 4-6 LI's in my bag.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Online status: Vysion34 is offline Reputation: Vysion34 the Neophyte Vysion34 the Neophyte Vysion34 the Neophyte Vysion34 the Neophyte Vysion34 the Neophyte Vysion34 the Neophyte Vysion34 the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Quote Originally Posted by defrule View Post
    A system where you can retrait an LI would be great, people can start trying different setups.

    If I want to try a full tanking LI on my champion, I can't without spending months getting the legacies and empowerment scrolls. That or I level a second tanking weapon but it defeats the whole purpose of LI's being legendary.

    I'd rather have 1 weapon and 1 rune which can be easily repurposed to my needs rahter than having 4-6 LI's in my bag.
    Everyone else that plays the game (except for Turbine) would rather have that also.
    Just realize that while champions are awesome, we want you to be awesome too. That's why we do the things we do. - Harumph

    I'm fairly certain no one is leaving the game due to confusion of what a strawman is or isn't. Which tells me we're done here.
    Last edited by Sapience; Aug 16 2010 at 12:12 PM.


  12. #12
    Senior Member Online status: MrJaZn is offline Reputation: MrJaZn the Wary MrJaZn the Wary MrJaZn the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    My view on this is if you want legendary items that you can imagine, go play dungeons and dragons. The system was way worse than it is now. It's been improved. The only problem I have is Relic shards Post RoI.

    To the people that don't understand the tactics of keeping people around for months and years in a MMORPG, I would like to point you to your door, but I can't because I don't know the directional relation of your door to your monitor.

    So go this way

  13. #13
    Grand Member Online status: Darmokk is offline Reputation: Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated Darmokk the Undefeated
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Good OP. +rep.

    Overall the message is: LI should be much more like characters:
    • They grow on earlier than what you have now and aren't very powerful.
    • The one LI that you picked initially you can keep to "cap", whatever that will be. We don't have chars go "obsolete" and get told "well you gotta roll a Champ now that you are 68".
    • They should be re-traitable (for money). Take the lessons learned with characters. There is no difference. Why did you give characters the ability to re-trait? Think about it. Same reasons apply to LIs.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Online status: Reximus is offline Reputation: Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte Reximus the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrJaZn View Post
    To the people that don't understand the tactics of keeping people around for months and years in a MMORPG, I would like to point you to your door, but I can't because I don't know the directional relation of your door to your monitor.
    I've played MMO's for close to a decade now, I totally understand time sinks, but there is a difference between a time sink that feels good, like you accomplish something, and time sinks that are annoying. The former makes me want to keep playing (new content which grants new gear as an example), the latter annoys me until I either stop caring, which means the time sink isn't effective in holding me to the game, or until I get so annoyed I quit playing the game. While the LI system isn't there yet, its wonderfully close.

    I have no issues with the system being monetized. I have no issue with the system being a time sink. My issue is they are selling us mass produced garbage as a Rolls Royce.

  15. #15
    Poster of Note Online status: Bombadil411 is offline Reputation: Bombadil411 has disabled reputation
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    When Mines of Moria was first announced Turbine had that website, like Doors of Durin.com or something and they had an exercise of sorts where you got to choose the handle, hilt, and blade of your "soon to be" legendary weapon. Reading that and the press release immediately painted in my head a system where the weapon you have is the weapon you keep until the day you die and it made me excited. While leveling through Moria I quickly realized that would not be the case, but held out hope that once you got your First Age at the end of the line it would be the final weapon you ever had to get. Again, not the case. There is no customizing your "legendary" item in this game, they all look the same. The only thing legendary about the system is the odds against getting 4, 5, and (heaven forbid) 6 major legacies on the same item. I, too would have been much happier if the system had never existed.

    I agree with the point of this thread 100%. I wouldn't imagine it to be too terribly difficult to make a system where when you unlock 10 new levels on your character, you unlock 10 new levels worth of DPS onto the weapon that you were using 10 levels ago. 99% of the LOTRO population will probably use the same legacies on a new weapon as they were using on their old one unless they get more or less lucky than last time or the legacies change like they always have.

    Every expansion and update it seems that Turbine is just reinventing the wheel on this system. I will agree that the new system is miles ahead of the one that launched with Moria, but I personally would have rathered they keep that system and spend the time they later wasted on "fixing" that system on content that doesn't include a dragon that bugs half of the time, skirmishes I was already bored with the day after Mirkwood launched, and running at 75 content I was doing at level 20. Now that they have invested so much time in this I do think they should see it through to its end, which would involve pretty much everything detailed here in this thread. A weapon I keep and am proud to keep; a weapon that is truly legendary.

  16. #16
    Junior Member Online status: Samwald is offline Reputation: Samwald the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Agreed. Legendary weapons that you need to change all the time are not legendary.
    Why not to change system so it is more like skirmish soldier who actually can level with you?

    Or there is one more easy solution. Just get rid of "lengendary" and only call our weapons: 1st age weapon, 2nd age weapon, and all is good

    But seriously, system is not satisfying at all. I for instance leveled my mini from 65 to 75 without changing my 65 second agers because there was no reason to do so. Game is so easy in solo. At 75 I changed my dps weapon to lvl75 3ager, but that was it. I still continue using my healing lvl 65 legendaries and will do so until I get lvl 75 SA book, but that will be it.

    I dont mind to grind if there is something to look forward to, but I will not grind weapon that I will replace if a few weeks.

    But anyway, no one in Turbine cares...

    Lotro is still a good game and I will continue playing (I am lifer) but do not expect my money anytime soon if something does not change

  17. #17
    Member Online status: ShameOnYou is offline Reputation: ShameOnYou the Neophyte ShameOnYou the Neophyte ShameOnYou the Neophyte ShameOnYou the Neophyte ShameOnYou the Neophyte ShameOnYou the Neophyte
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    Angry Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Indeed the system stinketh. I remember the first time around when Mirkwood came out and people were told they needed to chuck their legendaries -- not many were happy then (understatement) but most swallowed the bitter pill and upgraded to level 65 items. Note that changes to the legendary system were taking place throughout this process and there was the promise of a legendary system remake/overhaul.

    They introduced scrolls of empowerment and the ability to swap legacies. So players bought into it and invested a lot of time in order to get the perfect legendary items -- Second Age with all the right legacies, all upgraded to tier 6, totally maxed out.

    Now fast forward to Isenguard and what do we get?

    Throw it away? Say what? Again? Are you nuts? Oh and by the way, those extra scrolls of empowerment you have? Guess what? They are worthless. Now you have to have Scrolls of Greater Empowerment? Say WHAT? Aaaargggghhhhh!!!!!!

    My immediate response was, "Eh eh. No way. Not this time." Turbine got away with this garbage the first time. Fool me the first time - call me a fool. Fool me a second time - no, I'm not that stupid.

    The reality is that it could be so much better, but I've been forced to admit that it's the way it is because that's the way Turbine wants it. They seem to think that the throw away nature of the system is not only necessary but good because it keeps people playing the game. No one denies that time sinks are necessary, but you would think they could do better than the current system.

    So what about the promised legendary upgrade (part 2)? Oh ya, they cancelled that. Go figure.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Online status: N.Legler is offline Reputation: N.Legler the Wary N.Legler the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Naw - Legendaries are in a 'good place' right now....

  19. #19
    Senior Member Online status: Grhysli is offline Reputation: Grhysli the Neophyte Grhysli the Neophyte Grhysli the Neophyte Grhysli the Neophyte Grhysli the Neophyte Grhysli the Neophyte Grhysli the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    The "Legendary" system has become so annoying that I am beginning to toy with the idea of just boycotting it altogether and using crafted weapons only.

    Totally skip the never ending and never ceasing LI system reset with each expansion to the game.

    If enough players stopped using LI's altogether it MIGHT get Turbines attention.

  20. #20
    Poster of Note Online status: Tangaar is offline Reputation: Tangaar the Neophyte Tangaar the Neophyte Tangaar the Neophyte Tangaar the Neophyte Tangaar the Neophyte Tangaar the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Or atleast when you identify a LI to ASK you which of the following legacies you want(showing ALL minor/major)
    when you reforge for adding a new legacy to ASK you which of the following legacies you want to add(showing ALL minor/major)
    when you reforge for an upgrade on the existing legacy to ASK you which one of the6 legacies want to upgrade(showing ALL)
    and when you add/change from a scroll a legacy to be ATLEAST tier4 from 2nd agers and up(not t2,that'sSTUPID ENOUGH)
    AND FINALLY MAKE THEM 2nd and 1st agers have ENOUGH points to fully fill all the(sure tier6)legacies
    So the only difference between 1st and 2nd to be the DPS

    ITS SO but SOOOO stupid having for a first age with 6 legacies 6tier and still the points are not enough





    seriously i can imagine them reading our posts and definately dying while laughin at us
    Last edited by Tangaar; Nov 10 2011 at 01:52 PM.

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  21. #21
    Senior Member Online status: Bryos is offline Reputation: Bryos the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grhysli View Post
    The "Legendary" system has become so annoying that I am beginning to toy with the idea of just boycotting it altogether and using crafted weapons only.

    Totally skip the never ending and never ceasing LI system reset with each expansion to the game.

    If enough players stopped using LI's altogether it MIGHT get Turbines attention.


    I had thought about playing a separate toon entirely for this reason. Solo wise, I believe it would be very easy to get to level cap using nothing but crafted and guild weapons. It would certainly be much less annoying not having to bother with (non) legendary weapons.

  22. #22
    Junior Member Online status: Tugorn is offline Reputation: Tugorn the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShameOnYou View Post
    Throw it away? Say what? Again? Are you nuts? Oh and by the way, those extra scrolls of empowerment you have? Guess what? They are worthless. Now you have to have Scrolls of Greater Empowerment? Say WHAT? Aaaargggghhhhh!!!!!!

    .
    I havent been playing this game long enough to know the first legendary system, but I can totally understand the agony about grinding weeks to get a item with, for example +20% shield dmg in my case, level it so i could deconstruct it and use it on my current 65 2nd age item, and then realize with RoI and the new 75 stuff that I cannot use any type of legacy scrolls because they dont apply to 75 items.

    Another aspect is the lore. I mean the whole game has been great with sticking to the books and the few changes that they had to make due to licensing can be easily overlooked. But the fact that we find "legendary weapons" in moria like sand on a beach just doesnt seem to fit into the Lore. I mean Bilbo found Sting in a cave, where it had been for centuries (probably), and I can get my new 65 3rd age weapon by killing some critter. IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE

    And about the excuse to make money, I seriously doubt that sales would drop if they made improvements to the legendary system. hell i believe that if you make them rarer you could even sell more, cause people would be more willing to spend TP to get that one rare legacy.

    However, I have to say that simply insulting Turbine and saying that they dont care about us, is most likely not gonna get us the change we want


    Tugorn 75 Guardian, Mozlung rank 5 Warg, and some other low level characters

  23. #23
    Senior Member Online status: Vyrathis is offline Reputation: Vyrathis the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    I completely agree with this. Legendary items are far from legendary. It's really the only part of the game I'm highly disappointed with. I'd love to be able to customize the look of my LI, level it up to get the basic stats up, then equip it like I do my character to upgrade it. Alas, I don't ever see the LI system being anything other than a time sink.

    December 20th can't come fast enough.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Online status: Raowyn is offline Reputation: Raowyn the Wary Raowyn the Wary Raowyn the Wary Raowyn the Wary Raowyn the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    There have been plenty of threads demanding LI changes, and on a consistent basis. I would think enough so that its pretty clear many people are unhappy with the current super grind system - enough so to warrant change. The fact is the LI system is now a cash cow for Turbine Points and they are going to milk it until this game dries up. I think there are many people like myself who would continue to voice their opinion on this, but after doing so for so long without any worthwhile change (only pay2win options) we know it is not going to change.

    The LI system is the leading cause of death for alts.


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  25. #25
    Senior Member Online status: yurick75 is offline Reputation: yurick75 the Wary yurick75 the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    The LI system should have been scrapped a long time ago but Turbine has invested far to much time and money into it for them to just throw it away.

    It is one of the big reasons why I dont play the game anywhere near as much as I used to. The ROI level cap really highlighted the flaws in LI's for me. I could of started using a lvl 66, 67, 70 LI but what would have been the point, by the time I got it levelled up so the DPS was maxed and some of the legacies upgraded I would have been at 75 and would have had to do the entire thing again with a lvl 75 third age, then second age etc. Why would I even consider doing so when the lvl 65 SA i had fully maxed with good relics could do me fine till I got there. When the game is designed in a way that discourages you from using the items the devs are making then what is the point?

    Now I just stick with the 3rd age i get at lvl 75. Put the legacies I want on it if I happen to get them on a trash LI and not even bother with scrolls of empowerment. The grind they have created for getting those is just way over the top and not what I consider fun to do. If they are trying to use that to keep me in game then they are failing in a big way. Having to do it on a number of characters just makes the prospect scary.

    I would be happy if not using LI's was a viable option. Give us the ability to use normal weapons that do a higher DPS to make up for the loss of legacies for those that really dont like LI's They could make it so that these items could not be used with an LI so those that do like the LI system could not become overpowered by using these higher DPS weapons in their offhand.

  26. #26
    Member Online status: Straka is offline Reputation: Straka the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reximus View Post
    Despite many of the improvements made to the system, the overall system still hasn't delivered on its original premise of giving us a Legendary weapon that levels with us. Think Sting, Glamdring, Orcrist, and Narsil.
    A legendary item is legendary because of what someone does with it. For me, the best method is that everyone gets one of each legendary type that never go away and level up as you complete the story.

    For example, the weapon starts at lvl 45. When you complete the epic line to enter Moria, it goes to 50. When you complete Moria, it goes to 60. Complete Mirkwood, 65. Complete RoI, 75. As you progress, the legend of the items grow!

    Then, for the additional bonuses, doing deeds bumps up the Legendary Item:

    Watcher = Bumps the third age 60 to second age 60.
    DN = Bumps second age 60 to first age 60.

    Once the player completes Mirkwood, the LI goes back to a third age 65.

    Beat OD on Tier 1 - Third age 65 to Second Age 65
    Beat OD on Tier 2 - Second Age 65 to First Age 65

    For RoI:
    Beat Draigoch Tier 2 - Third age 75 to Second Age 75.


    For the legacies, skirmishes make the most sense for adding, changing, etc. There are holes in this but I think it would be much better than the current system!

  27. #27
    Senior Member Online status: Wagnard is offline Reputation: Wagnard the Neophyte Wagnard the Neophyte Wagnard the Neophyte Wagnard the Neophyte Wagnard the Neophyte Wagnard the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Nothing will be changed. Turbine is making big $$$ with Store because of LI.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Online status: Linwen is offline Reputation: Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads Linwen the Watcher of Roads
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    The Skirmish Soldier system is exactly what the LI system should have been, and should still be, from its skills and traits to visual appeareance selections, retraiting options and smooth leveling. It still takes time and dedication to upgrade all the skills and traits to the max level, and Turbine can still make money in the store from SM scrolls and booster packs. But whatever time you put into it doesn't get trashed every couple of levels. A long progression is much less aggravating than a "go back to square one" model, especially one with overlapping grinds (shards! relics! special relics! scrolls of this thing! scrolls of the other thing! scrolls of the greater other thing!).

    As it stands, I would be happy to give the entire system a pass, but Turbine made sure that's virtually not possible for some classes, because they moved skill scaling after level 50 from the skills themselves to LIs. Are you a Guardian and want your shield damage to scale? Sorry, you have to use a LI. Are you a tactical class and need your skills to scale? You have to use a LI as well. So sure, LIs are "in a good place" because people are using them. They have to, unless they want to gimp themselves down entire levels. That's not much of a choice.

    The LI system could have been such a great feature. That is what pains me about it. Turbine had a chance to build an innovative system that other MMOs would envy and that players would love. Instead, it's other MMOs that are doing it the right way (TOR with their lightsabers, from what I've heard). What a pity to waste such a chance.
    "Yet there may be a light beyond the darkness; and if so, I would have you see it and be glad."

  29. #29
    Junior Member Online status: ABoyNamedSue is offline Reputation: ABoyNamedSue the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    /signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagnard View Post
    Nothing will be changed. Turbine is making big $$$ with Store because of LI.
    "They delved too greedily and too deep", and disturbed too many people. Even if they will change it, it will be too late.
    Last edited by ABoyNamedSue; Dec 16 2011 at 05:28 AM.
    Claymore Nation

  30. #30
    Senior Member Online status: Morbeleg is offline Reputation: Morbeleg the Wary Morbeleg the Wary Morbeleg the Wary Morbeleg the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    Quote Originally Posted by yurick75 View Post
    I would be happy if not using LI's was a viable option. Give us the ability to use normal weapons that do a higher DPS to make up for the loss of legacies for those that really dont like LI's They could make it so that these items could not be used with an LI so those that do like the LI system could not become overpowered by using these higher DPS weapons in their offhand.
    There is the little thing that growing up a LI weapon takes quite the effort. The LI system is a cash cow for turbine (sooner or later even ixp pills and relic shards will be there im sure).
    Both from a regular game balance issue (much effort to max LI weapons vs a 10 second craft execute on your crafted nonchanging higher dps weapon - this disfavor those who grind their LIs) and the more obvious problem that less users of LI means less TPs spent in store on various LI options. No matter how you phrase this wish in order to address the first issue (gamebalance) the store revenue will always win out for turbine and permitting a acceptable opt out wont happen.

  31. #31
    Member Online status: Jachi is offline Reputation: Jachi the Wary Jachi the Wary
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    You can all forget a proper LI system it will never happen : Empowerment scrolls, legacy scrolls , relic unlock scrolls time after time kerching kerching .

    Pretty much everyone hated the fact that you had to pay equivalent of roughly £2.50 to unlock your relics from each of your old legendaries .( For my RK this would have cost £15 just to keep my old relics on one character, never mind the empowerment scrolls. So guess what i don't play my RK any more.) There was a massive complaint thread, several massive complaint threads in fact but nothing got done regarding any free relic unlocks whatsoever.

    Best advice if you wish to continue playing and don't like the LI grind :

    1. Level classes that don't require many LI's : some req fewer than others

    2. Use Macro's to switch weapons for certain skills meaning you don't need so many high tiers on all your weapons and maybe not so many relics

    3. Get away with as many 3rd age weapons /items as possible except for your main damage weapon unless you can get hold of plenty of 2a 1a straight away of course.

    4. Don't bother investing scrolls or decent relics in anything other than end level gear ( you can manage fine with t1-4 relics or the lower level 55 or 60 extraordinary type ones they aren't that much worse than the higher ones , the big jump comes with the L65 true relics mostly)

    5. Dont bother using low level (below 75) 2a or 1st age at all unless it is an off hand that you are going to keep for quite a while or if you must have one for extra damage just level it to 30 , levelling it above that is just wasting ixp.

  32. #32
    Grand Member Online status: Abiyah is offline Reputation: Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated Abiyah the Undefeated
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    When I first started playing this game, I saw the LIs in the AH, looked them over (this was far before I was of an eligible level to use one-- I just wanted to see what I was looking forward to), and I remember thinking, "Oh, cool, it'll be great to get a weapon that will grow with me." I thought it'd be the last weapon I'd have to get. After all, "legendary" doesn't mean "disposable", in my viewpoint. Lol, boy, was I wrong. We all know the rest of the story.
    To many people, free will is a license to rebel not against what is unjust or hard in life but against what is best for them and true.

  33. #33
    Member Online status: Wisp701 is offline Reputation: Wisp701 the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    /signed.

    We have lost alot of people in our kin who have been leaving the game (not the kin). Their primary complaint has been the feel of a pointless grind stemming from the legendary system. It's pretty well known fact that as soon as you hit lvl71/72 you should scrap your old legendaries and switch to a new one. Sad that a lvl72, 3rd age legendary at lvl22 with no relics can outperform a maxed out 65 2ndager.

    Problems: how many legendaries have you ground up for a low value tier I relic? = legendary items are a commodity = nobody cares if you find one - not very legendary

    Problems: decon'ing your hard earned weapon for a trash item at a higher level = your legendary item is a temporary item you will trash on the next update = no emotional attachment or sense of continuity = people complain more and more that the grind is frustrating and pointless = every level expansion since Moria we lose players because they are ticked about having to "restart" the grind for the same legendaries that they already had... oh and it perceived that the empowerment scrolls are getting more and more expensive.

    Turbine: please put the legendary revamp back into the plans. The legendaries should be a system driving engagement, a sense of acheivement, and an emotional attachement to an awesome item(s) that you've grown over months and years of play time. Instead it's driving players from the game.

  34. #34
    Senior Member Online status: lutemaster is offline Reputation: lutemaster the Neophyte lutemaster the Neophyte lutemaster the Neophyte lutemaster the Neophyte lutemaster the Neophyte lutemaster the Neophyte lutemaster the Neophyte lutemaster the Neophyte
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    To get a "legendary" weapon, all you need to do is to go and slap an orc roaming the plains of Eregion. Do that for 15 minutes and you will have 21 "unique" and "legendary" weapons, just the way Tolkien imagined it.
    The road to success is always under construction.

  35. #35
    Member Online status: Finlasdir is offline Reputation: Finlasdir the Neutral
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    Re: Petition for a REAL LI system.

    /signed

    the LIs should work like the skirmish companion.
    LIs should have a level like the soldier, they should always be 3rd age ones (the company had..like 1 first age LI, and 2 second age?...so why hordes of player all got 1st age?)

    substitute the relics/setting/gems with lots of different trait, trainable with slayer deed or TP.
    minor legacies should be like the "basic skills" of a skirmish soldier, the mayor ones should be like the "ultimate skills", needing particular quest-deed to achieve.

    Same for the title: particular "legendary" deed should unlock different damage tipes traits, b/p/e bonuses or physical/tactical mastery. (maybe, 2 distinct traits, so you can customize it as you like)

    and finally put some cosmetics for weapons...maybe even sell them on the store..

    Really, i don't care for the TP i spent on the LIs, for the XP runes i have in the vault, for the grinding i have done...PLEASE make a real LI system..

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