Thread: Why won't you fix passives on LIs, Turbine :<

Most of my dislike of the LI system is gone. It left when we could replace legacies, and when we all got 3 on ID.

But there's one really terrible part left. It's passives. Not every item has passives, but for someone like me, who plays a lot, they are important. Having 26 more will, or 239 more morale is a big boon.

I finally got around to getting my second 75 Second Age LI today, it was a termeodus amount of work. The first one went to a healing bag, that one was from completing dragon and challenge on T2. The next one went to a lit stone. The lit stone got the following passives:

54 ICPR
28 Might
166 Parry Rating

A tremendous amount of work, and I don't even want to slot it. Those passives are embarrassing. 54 ICPR is fine. Why is might and parry even in the table for an RK stone?

Give me some way to fix it. Take the random out, that's what the LI refresh was all about. Give me a store stroll that lets me reroll the passives.

I have a brand new 75 SA and I don't even want to slot it, because its passives suck. I'm going to have to invest 40 hours of game play to get it perfect, why do I want to invest that much time on something so bad. "Oh Wow! Nice stone! Sorry about the passives."

I want to see some real feedback from Turbine as to why this hasn't been addressed.

I agree some passives are Really bad. Some way to change them, that would be nice. A smaller pool of passives that are Useful, that would be okay too.

Yeah for the most part they're a joke and not even class specific. It is also my last gripe with the system....it's not even class specific and I can get a 2h with like...
Parry, OOC regen, icpr

And I just stare at the screen in awe, meanwhile joe blow gets +200 morale/crit/+ might and I bang my head against a wall. I was actually going to make a thread but I saw this first. In serious need of attention

Originally Posted by Thorandril

Yeah for the most part they're a joke and not even class specific. It is also my last gripe with the system....it's not even class specific and I can get a 2h with like...
Parry, OOC regen, icpr

And I just stare at the screen in awe, meanwhile joe blow gets +200 morale/crit/+ might and I bang my head against a wall. I was actually going to make a thread but I saw this first. In serious need of attention

You get those good passives on your 3rd agers instead. thats how it too often turns out.

Why are we not pushing for a real permanent fix to the system? Why are we still playing the minor adjustments to fix broken fixes of something broken?

Utilize a skirmish soldier panel for the LI. Give us Appearance, passives, legacies, and personal trait lines. Remove pool A and B and allow us to slot either. Allow us to put the passives we want on the weapon INCLUDING the DPS trait. Make the whole thing a permanent frame that you level up that allows you to spend points in the items you have loaded or buy new slots. Make the levels of the things you slot go from 1-75 and cost the same exp as leveling your toon at the respective level. IE you have a LI exp pool that you buy levels from that pool of exp.

This way that we actually have something to work for that we know will not go away like the rest of our gear (as normal gear should).

Originally Posted by cold_realms

Why are we not pushing for a real permanent fix to the system? Why are we still playing the minor adjustments to fix broken fixes of something broken?

We did. Turbine said NO. Their position has not changed. Not too long ago, Turbine cancelled phase 2. Turbine stated that they are satisfied with the current implementation. The LI system is now a completed finished system that needs no more changes.

So your answer is 'because Turbine is happy" correct me if i am wrong but wasn't turbine happy originally and player feedback pushed them to make changes?

So I say again why are PLAYERS giving up?

/signed

I am actually in support of every forward thinking idea in this thread regarding LIs. In the immediate future, the easiest thing to do would be to fix the simple things like:

a) Make the Stat Passives Class Specific: This can't be that hard to do, especially considering the LIs themselves are already class specific.

b) Remove the A/B Pools: At this point, these are completely unnecessary. Give peeps 6 legacy slots and the ability to swap out whatever they want.

By the way WB/Turbine, it's not just about the grind anymore, which the majority of us don't mind as long as we get the LI we want. But people are now paying $$$ for their LIs via Store upgrades and the like. You guys really need to step your game up just a bit and finish the LI clean-up that you started..

Originally Posted by cold_realms

Why are we not pushing for a real permanent fix to the system? Why are we still playing the minor adjustments to fix broken fixes of something broken?

Utilize a skirmish soldier panel for the LI. Give us Appearance, passives, legacies, and personal trait lines. Remove pool A and B and allow us to slot either. Allow us to put the passives we want on the weapon INCLUDING the DPS trait. Make the whole thing a permanent frame that you level up that allows you to spend points in the items you have loaded or buy new slots. Make the levels of the things you slot go from 1-75 and cost the same exp as leveling your toon at the respective level. IE you have a LI exp pool that you buy levels from that pool of exp.

This way that we actually have something to work for that we know will not go away like the rest of our gear (as normal gear should).

This this this, so very much this. There is nothing at all Legendary about mass produced garbage that we toss out 99% of the time.

Le bump the important issue~~~

Have to say I am tired of the LI system.
Every expansion (it seems like) we get a "new" LI level that forces us to scrap our old LI's and start from scratch again with 3rd Ages, then 2nd Ages, & at some point near the end of the lifespan of that LI level 1st Ages. Then guess what? New expansion & scrap it all and start over again. Very tiring, to much grind acquiring the legacy scrolls, scrolls of Delving, scrolls of empowerment etc etc etc over and over ad nauseum.

Here's a radical thought. How about we as players abandon the LI system and refuse to use them?
Yeah you read that right. Maybe if you have a nice lvl 65 2nd Age Class LI keep that but just find a decent crafted Weapon and use that instead of endlessly grinding LI's over and over again.

I'll admit I'm not ready to do that on my main char but sure is tempting to consider on all my Alts especially since I use them mainly for crafting. Why grind LI's on a crafting char?

Because it's like 50% of current end-game content?

Originally Posted by Grhysli

Have to say I am tired of the LI system.
Every expansion (it seems like) we get a "new" LI level that forces us to scrap our old LI's and start from scratch again with 3rd Ages, then 2nd Ages, & at some point near the end of the lifespan of that LI level 1st Ages. Then guess what? New expansion & scrap it all and start over again. Very tiring, to much grind acquiring the legacy scrolls, scrolls of Delving, scrolls of empowerment etc etc etc over and over ad nauseum.

Here's a radical thought. How about we as players abandon the LI system and refuse to use them?
Yeah you read that right. Maybe if you have a nice lvl 65 2nd Age Class LI keep that but just find a decent crafted Weapon and use that instead of endlessly grinding LI's over and over again.

I'll admit I'm not ready to do that on my main char but sure is tempting to consider on all my Alts especially since I use them mainly for crafting. Why grind LI's on a crafting char?

+rep to you. Down with the LI system!

Originally Posted by Grhysli

Here's a radical thought. How about we as players abandon the LI system and refuse to use them?
Yeah you read that right. Maybe if you have a nice lvl 65 2nd Age Class LI keep that but just find a decent crafted Weapon and use that instead of endlessly grinding LI's over and over again.

I'll admit I'm not ready to do that on my main char but sure is tempting to consider on all my Alts especially since I use them mainly for crafting. Why grind LI's on a crafting char?

Nah. There is no reason for the above. IMHO a better alternative, for those who don't want the grind but want some degree of character power is to:
1) pick 1-2 key legacies (e.g. Capt might pick from telling mark, PA targets, or a few otheres)
2) Get those on your LI weapon (easy enough these days)
3) Max DPS, max those chosen legacies
4) Slot some midrange relics (1 run through NCF will supply all you need)
5) treat rest as gravy (if you can get legacies that take 0 points spent to be useful, like DB crit, so much the
better)

That isn't much of a grind, IMHO. Don't use greater SOE, probably do use a greater scroll of Delving.
Once you have an OK weapon, you can level up other weapons in the background. If by chance one looks better than your current one, replace it, if not, decon at 31 for effort free relics...

I like the system. I love working my ### off for weeks to get rare drop and be rewarded with might, agi and oocpr on my stone. That's what life is about, being constantly tested and stuff, eh?

Compared to what you can get on off-handers and shields, stats on 2 handers are completely terrible.

Stats that appear on 2 handers should mirror off-hand/shield stats just like back in SoA how a 2 hander doubled 1 handed weapon stats.

My fellow warriors of Middle-earth do not despair, Turbine will take notice on December 20th.
My lightsaber is ready.

Removed the crafted by name.

Ouch. I was kidding and now someone got worse luck than me.

Coming soon to a store near you, improved LI passive stats! Sick of getting crummy stats from a system that occasionally feels like a gulag? Now you're in luck!

Lacking the time to just fix a troublesome system, you might as well sell people what they want and take advantage of it. Apparently that's been working better than just making a good system. If it didn't feel like such a dreadful grind to begin with you wouldn't have people spending money to save time.

For obvious reasons

Originally Posted by Thorandril

For obvious reasons

?, is there a new store feature? Or did you get an ID with OOCPR on your level 75 2nd age (which I did, alas).

Originally Posted by Thorandril

And I just stare at the screen in awe, meanwhile joe blow gets +200 morale/crit/+ might and I bang my head against a wall. I was actually going to make a thread but I saw this first. In serious need of attention

I agree. You are far more worthy of great passives than joe blow. Why does the Turbine RNG not realise this?? I'd bug it.

I am the king of getting bad passives but the more I play LOTRO the less I feel the need to eek out that extra +1 might/will/.. etc.

Originally Posted by wasteland

I agree. You are far more worthy of great passives than joe blow. Why does the Turbine RNG not realise this?? I'd bug it.

I am the king of getting bad passives but the more I play LOTRO the less I feel the need to eek out that extra +1 might/will/.. etc.

You get good stats on your shield, I get good stats on my offhand, I switch to 2h and lose (this may surprise) a little more than 1 might/agility. To be replaced with....OOCPR, agility & other useless nonsense.

It's simply poor design, one that doesn't affect minstrels. I guess you can see where this is going?

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

?, is there a new store feature? Or did you get an ID with OOCPR on your level 75 2nd age (which I did, alas).

Nope, still isn't fixed but I somehow imagine (since the last BR build I checked) alot of things are like legacies not affecting specific skills or being entirely useless (combat effect removal duration only enhancing the duration of the Fight on! Debuff lololol). The legendary system as a whole became less and less likable over time when they could at least keep up with legacy updates, seems like they can't now.

The second they start monetizing these things is when I jump ship, the current endgame is actually fun for once since the brief period in Mirkwood and Pre-RoI where 3 mans were popular.. But I can't shake the notion that they'll eventually just monetize every single over-intense grind (don't like it? Skip it!) that they make instead of creating interesting/novel content, RPG's shouldn't be like that. I didn't pay 50 bucks to skip bowser and save the princess.

Originally Posted by Thorandril

You get good stats on your shield, I get good stats on my offhand, I switch to 2h and lose (this may surprise) a little more than 1 might/agility. To be replaced with....OOCPR, agility & other useless nonsense.

It's simply poor design, one that doesn't affect minstrels. I guess you can see where this is going?

I would call it a frustrating design, not poor per se. Yes I have a 75 champ, guard and cappy all with 2nd age level 75 weapons and all have passives that are average to woeful. Diminishing returns eases the pain somewhat, but the best way IMHO to deal with passives is to expect the worst and be happy if you get one that is useful. Expecting all three to be useful will inevitably make you grey before your time.

I suppose the point of my original post was don't go hating Joe Blow because he won the LOTRO lottery on passives because there was considerable angst in your wording.

Edit: More frustrating, for me, is the luck in getting Tier 1 legacies on reforge. I seem very skilled at ending up with a 3/3 split these days. Serenity now.

I deconned a runestone that IDed with almost perfect healing legacies yesterday because it had might and oocpr on it. Yay.

Originally Posted by wasteland

I would call it a frustrating design, not poor per se. Yes I have a 75 champ, guard and cappy all with 2nd age level 75 weapons and all have passives that are average to woeful. Diminishing returns eases the pain somewhat, but the best way IMHO to deal with passives is to expect the worst and be happy if you get one that is useful. Expecting all three to be useful will inevitably make you grey before your time.

I suppose the point of my original post was don't go hating Joe Blow because he won the LOTRO lottery on passives because there was considerable angst in your wording.

Edit: More frustrating, for me, is the luck in getting Tier 1 legacies on reforge. I seem very skilled at ending up with a 3/3 split these days. Serenity now.

Point being a good system wouldn't have such a ridiculous lottery aspect to it, the way legacy randomization used to work but they semi-fixed it. It's no different for passives and penalizes 2hand weapon users unfairly. You're suggesting ways to deal with obvious flaws, I'd sooner have them fixed.

Originally Posted by Morbeleg

You get those good passives on your 3rd agers instead. thats how it too often turns out.

That is the truth. Great rolls on 3rd age farm weapons... Garbage rolls on anything worth anything...

/shameless bumping and propping up the thread with my TA staff with nice will and morale passives.

Really hesitant to spend so much for an SA upgrade if the staff will just have might or agility passives on it. Would be nice if they will reduce the passives pool to stats that are relevant to the class.

The system needs an overhaul. I'm pretty disappointed by the whole system right now. I'm sad I deconned a 65 FA class item only to realize later that it is better than a 75 SA. I'm sad I have to use relic removal scrolls. I'm sad that I don't play my capped alts b/c I don't want to do the LI dance on them any more. I'm sad they cancelled phase 2 of the LI revamp discussed in the producer letter last year. There isn't really anything exciting about the system for me any more. Relics/shards are an abysmal grind as well. Turbine, you can do better.

I'm soooo sick and tired of getting agility, might, non-combat power regen on my RK LIs. Seeing LM's off-hand sword stats, minstrel's shield + instrument stats, this really annoys me. Needs to be fixed asap.

Originally Posted by Thorandril

Coming soon to a store near you, improved LI passive stats! Sick of getting crummy stats from a system that occasionally feels like a gulag? Now you're in luck!

Lacking the time to just fix a troublesome system, you might as well sell people what they want and take advantage of it. Apparently that's been working better than just making a good system. If it didn't feel like such a dreadful grind to begin with you wouldn't have people spending money to save time.

Originally Posted by Thorandril

For obvious reasons

Nevermind found it, I'm actually a prophet.