Thread: Loremaster in the Moors

RoI has proved to have some challenges for all sides, whether you're PvMPing or PvEing. When it first hit and I finally ventured out into the Moors, I got pretty excited that it seemed that I stood a chance against a Reaver finally without having to change the way I play (re: I don't mouse turn and I don't keymap my skills, I'm one of those good ole' skill clickers).

However, since the damage buff, I don't seem to stand a chance at all. This is espeically true since on my server, the Creeps code of conduct says the Loremaster must ALWAYS die first even if they just killed them first 5 times in a row.

So here is my constructive feedback, in general, regarding PvMP as played by a Loremaster on one of the new servers.

1.) Pay to win sucks.

Riddermark is still a new server and we have had a ton of people ranking up like insane crazy since the free renown from quests came out. Who would've thought we'd see this many Rank 11s, 10s, 9s out of nowhere on Freep side? I didn't imagine it.

At the same time, I'm a bit disenchanted that if people save up enough TPs they can buy rank 11, 12, etc skills on Creep side. There is a reason these things were rank gated, right? I mean I couldn't just go learn Ents Go To War or Improved Sticky Gourd etc etc before I hit my correct level.

If it was felt that these skills were being gated at the wrong place or should come sooner, this should have been fixed rather just opening up complete access to all the Creep skills to be bought at any time.

I do feel that Creeps badly needed a Creep store, but I think buying skills is misplaced.

2.) The damage increase was too much on some Creep classes and not enough on others.

My most serious feedback is in regards to Black Arrows and Reavers. I have heard feedback from friends that Spiders damage increase wasn't enough. I feel that the damage increase needs another look at. I agree that the damage increase was warranted, but I think a blanket 20% was a bit too much. I'm pretty much getting owned by Black Arrows like nobody's business. Maybe this puts them on par with Hunters, I can't say since I refuse to play a Hunter. But, the thing I think I hate most about Black Arrow's is that most of their skills have greater range than a Loremaster's does. If I want to increase range on the few skills that I'm able to via a Legendary, I have to sacrifice better Legacies.

3.) Loremaster inductions are too long and too easily interruptible in this Pay to Win environment.

I have little chance to get a debuff off and a couple damage skills before I'm hacked to pieces. If it's a raid, kiss goodbye getting off *any* skill before I'm dead.

4.) It's time to remove the Morale cost on Loremaster skills.

The whole thing is ridiculous. I'm the only light armour class that can't heal myself unless I sacrifice my DPS. And even then, it's a bit of a joke and would result in basically zero renown gain. RKs still DPS like crazy and can switch to heals. Mini's have flops and are supposedly now they hugest OP class and they're not even a glass canon.

I feel like a pretty glass vase standing in the middle of the road when creeps show up.

4.) Some of the Loremaster skills have power costs that are ridiculous. I'm looking at you Wind Lore: 429 power, Ancient Craft: 456 power, Herb lore: 429 and Storm lore: 538.

What is the reasoning behind these ridiclous numbers given that you also make me spend morale on other skills? (Any other class, please chime in with your feedback!)

5.) Loremaster ICPR sucks unless you stack items specifically with ICPR.

I have upped my Fate to 890 and I am still chewing through my power like crazy (that is with usually avoiding my high cost skills as listed above). My actual ICPR is only 946, seems a bit silly that Fate supposedly buffs this number but is contributing almost zilch. I am traited Master of Nature's Fury. Maybe I need to look into subbing out some skills, but the ICPR seems to be way off, more than what a few retraits might fix.

I feel that Casters should get a buff to what Fate contributes to their ICPR similar to how Vitality buffs Guardians.

6.) I'm on the edge about the quests giving renown.



That's all, folks. I know that not all of this is specifically PvMP related as some of it is an issue for LMs in Raids as well, but I really am interested in hearing feedback. How are other LMs doing?

Originally Posted by Laetha

4.) It's time to remove the Morale cost on Loremaster skills.

The whole thing is ridiculous. I'm the only light armour class that can't heal myself unless I sacrifice my DPS. And even then, it's a bit of a joke and would result in basically zero renown gain. RKs still DPS like crazy and can switch to heals. Mini's have flops and are supposedly now they hugest OP class and they're not even a glass canon.

I don't freep on my LM, but I do agree with at least this one point. Why lore-master's are singled out to lose health when using skills is ridiculous.

To be honest, health loss from skills is rarely an issue when questing or grouping, so it never concerns me. Thus I feel it adds nothing to the flavor of the class and should have been removed. Or maybe health loss should be added to any class skill that has a "magic" effect.

It has been awful for me. I really enjoyed going over to the Moors pre RoI and even post RoI before they increased the damage. I was running around being able to 1v1 most creeps and either win or come close to winning. I now feel so powerless to survive and get absolutely ripped apart by all creeps. I am confident now that I am unable to beat creeps that I handled easily before the increase.

I feel like I am one of the only classes unable to defend myself or get out of battles alive. Most of the heavy classes get hit for less(obviously), have speed boosts and other skills to survive fights, pledge for guardians/champions bubbles/captain last stand/wardens I believe have a skill that refills their health completely (not very familiar with any of the heavies so I could be wrong). RK's and Minis can heal themselves and do massive DPS. Not saying all these skills make them invincible but it does get them out of many situations I would never be able to escape from, ever. Considering that LM's seem to get targeted(atleast on riddermark) before anyone else, why is it that I am so weak?

Like the 1st post said, I can sacrifice all my DPS and have the ability to survive a little longer, but what is the point in that?

All I can say about induction times is that they need to be changed some how.

I fought a reaver 1v1 yesterday who I killed pre update 1v1 easily having around 4-5k morale leftover. Yesterday I died with him having 10k left still. Not sure how that is fair in any way. But maybe I am just looking at it wrong or is it the fact that he went and bought all his skills, I do not know. My fire lore saved me from getting shredded before the damage increase, now all it does it put them back to where they were before the update.

Another problem I have is the 75 PvMP LM set. The 6 equip ability is useless in the moors. It made me fall on the floor laughing when I read it. Essentially it reduces my induction time to 0 once per fight if my lynx manages to hit a crit. I barely even use pets over there as it is.

Any advice to do better in the moors from a fellow LM will be greatly appreciated, but I feel like were all in the same boat.

Regardless of all I said, I have now essentially retired my LM from PvMP play. Maybe LM is now meant for just PvE? Anyways I started leveling a new class and don't plan on using my LM much anymore. So I end with this, thank you for ruining my favorite class. That is all.

Originally Posted by Laetha

RoI has proved to have some challenges for all sides, whether you're PvMPing or PvEing. When it first hit and I finally ventured out into the Moors, I got pretty excited that it seemed that I stood a chance against a Reaver finally without having to change the way I play (re: I don't mouse turn and I don't keymap my skills, I'm one of those good ole' skill clickers).

However, since the damage buff, I don't seem to stand a chance at all. This is espeically true since on my server, the Creeps code of conduct says the Loremaster must ALWAYS die first even if they just killed them first 5 times in a row.

So here is my constructive feedback, in general, regarding PvMP as played by a Loremaster on one of the new servers.

1.) Pay to win sucks.

Riddermark is still a new server and we have had a ton of people ranking up like insane crazy since the free renown from quests came out. Who would've thought we'd see this many Rank 11s, 10s, 9s out of nowhere on Freep side? I didn't imagine it.

At the same time, I'm a bit disenchanted that if people save up enough TPs they can buy rank 11, 12, etc skills on Creep side. There is a reason these things were rank gated, right? I mean I couldn't just go learn Ents Go To War or Improved Sticky Gourd etc etc before I hit my correct level.

If it was felt that these skills were being gated at the wrong place or should come sooner, this should have been fixed rather just opening up complete access to all the Creep skills to be bought at any time.

I do feel that Creeps badly needed a Creep store, but I think buying skills is misplaced.

2.) The damage increase was too much on some Creep classes and not enough on others.

My most serious feedback is in regards to Black Arrows and Reavers. I have heard feedback from friends that Spiders damage increase wasn't enough. I feel that the damage increase needs another look at. I agree that the damage increase was warranted, but I think a blanket 20% was a bit too much. I'm pretty much getting owned by Black Arrows like nobody's business. Maybe this puts them on par with Hunters, I can't say since I refuse to play a Hunter. But, the thing I think I hate most about Black Arrow's is that most of their skills have greater range than a Loremaster's does. If I want to increase range on the few skills that I'm able to via a Legendary, I have to sacrifice better Legacies.

3.) Loremaster inductions are too long and too easily interruptible in this Pay to Win environment.

I have little chance to get a debuff off and a couple damage skills before I'm hacked to pieces. If it's a raid, kiss goodbye getting off *any* skill before I'm dead.

4.) It's time to remove the Morale cost on Loremaster skills.

The whole thing is ridiculous. I'm the only light armour class that can't heal myself unless I sacrifice my DPS. And even then, it's a bit of a joke and would result in basically zero renown gain. RKs still DPS like crazy and can switch to heals. Mini's have flops and are supposedly now they hugest OP class and they're not even a glass canon.

I feel like a pretty glass vase standing in the middle of the road when creeps show up.

4.) Some of the Loremaster skills have power costs that are ridiculous. I'm looking at you Wind Lore: 429 power, Ancient Craft: 456 power, Herb lore: 429 and Storm lore: 538.

What is the reasoning behind these ridiclous numbers given that you also make me spend morale on other skills? (Any other class, please chime in with your feedback!)

5.) Loremaster ICPR sucks unless you stack items specifically with ICPR.

I have upped my Fate to 890 and I am still chewing through my power like crazy (that is with usually avoiding my high cost skills as listed above). My actual ICPR is only 946, seems a bit silly that Fate supposedly buffs this number but is contributing almost zilch. I am traited Master of Nature's Fury. Maybe I need to look into subbing out some skills, but the ICPR seems to be way off, more than what a few retraits might fix.

I feel that Casters should get a buff to what Fate contributes to their ICPR similar to how Vitality buffs Guardians.

6.) I'm on the edge about the quests giving renown.



That's all, folks. I know that not all of this is specifically PvMP related as some of it is an issue for LMs in Raids as well, but I really am interested in hearing feedback. How are other LMs doing?

Man, you are right, LM's survivability is low comparing to other classes, our Heal and CC and DPS aren't good enough in the new enviroment, even in the MoNF line, and this problem with the time of inductions, a lot of LMs are complaining about that, the time to land a induction is lol today, low DPS, low survivability. And the CC isn't that good against other players, because of the lol diminishing returns.

I had a hunter friend bemoaning his issues in the Moors too and countered that at least I have mezzes, stuns etc... but Creeps pot all of these and a Reaver is totally immune from all of my main survivability tactics for what, 15 seconds?

I hate that I feel like all I can do is just stand there and take it.

I do love that Wisdom of the Council is a 5 minute cooldown, but I feel like I'm popping it so much more that if it weren't a 5 minute cooldown I'd be really sad.

I think I would be so much happier if my inductions weren't so long and so easily interruptible.


The other point I forgot to make is the silliness of the buff on our fire skills being on one of our 3 melee skills. How does that make any sense? Run up, slap them around to buff up my damage and *hope* I can survive running backwards?

Originally Posted by Laetha

I had a hunter friend bemoaning his issues in the Moors too and countered that at least I have mezzes, stuns etc... but Creeps pot all of these and a Reaver is totally immune from all of my main survivability tactics for what, 15 seconds?

8 seconds.

Hmmm.....all these comments do sort of worry me, since I havent been to the moors since RoI released.....


Pre-RoI, LMs were pretty much competent in both damage as well as harassing creeps, and skilled LMs could tear BAs apart, stand toe-to-toe against spiders and take on almost all of the creep classes in 1v1s......I used to have a bit of trouble against Reavers back then but that was mainly due to my inefficiency in kiting and fighting.....

But ever since I read about the changes to creep classes with RoI, its been bothering me that Reavers (especially in huge numbers since theyre the only f2p class) would be a major issue....they are almost like champs on CBR without the penalty....which is a Loremaster's bane.....and hearing all this has kind of confirmed part of those fears....

I guess a change in strategy is due since we get neither the insane dps of Minis and Rks, the heavy mitigations of Tanks and Champs and Cappys, neither do we get the range of hunters.....

Now inductions were fine as long as they were fair enough to counter-balance the other side's weaknesses.....our damage, burst damage in particular would be on par with reavers.....but now, its a different story altogether....

I am yet to experience what its like out there after these changes, but I am hoping that a change of strategy or something at all would be possible to counter the weaknesses we face.....and looking forward to hearing people find ways to do so...because lets not kid ourselves....we got huge class changes all over just a month ago...theyre not going to give another overhaul very soon.....so we gotta live with what we have......thats what its like out there in the moors.....Kill or be killed.....by whatever means possible.....

If you run full fellows or raids I'd highly suggest ancient master line. Stack morale,finesse, and Will if room. Crit chance and icpr are of little use for AM. Without finesse, tremendous amount of debuffs are going be resisted which hinders the whole point of going ancient master. Primary debuffing skills are 40m range, no inductions.

If you frost-lore then wind-lore, BAs cannot pot the wind-lore and are stuck with -60% ranged damage. I'm assuming potting effects works the same for each side. Using a wound-pot on RK will pot the first wound put on me...which is rarely the one i'd like to pot. Also, +50% inductions is pretty nice if BAs don't pot anything.

Having extra miss chance is good on fire-lore. Often times under-valued. The 1 minute duration is sweet too. With SoP: Command being aoe 5 targets and 1min duration, it's a real help to slow creep dps down. Even if you die, as long as you debuffed everything you've still hindered the creeps effectiveness a great deal if done correctly. Also, ancient craft is mighty nice (1min duration) because it reduces creep mitigation by a fair amount.

SoP: Command is amazing. Put it on reavers/wargs like crazy. The 5 target aoe makes it very valuable. It can also be used to pop wargs out of stealth.


When you get a moment, also use gust of wind (10% miss chance). It's also 2min duration which means if you have to refresh wind-lore/firelore, the gust of wind will be potted instead. Sometimes 2s inductions are hard to get off though. If you have a moment, it's also dandy to power-drain healers. And keep people topped up on power. Play support role. Toss your power. Drain early.

If you get time, you can even using warding knowledge, although it's not as useful with constant movement, but still good in keeps. Then obviously use SoP:R and knowledge of cures (PAAI) and tar when appropriate. Please be a true friend to minstrels, captains, RKs and use SoP:R to cure warg silences.

I will admit it absolutely sucks to solo AM traited. But it will wreak havoc in groups/raids when played right.

Originally Posted by billybob321

Another problem I have is the 75 PvMP LM set. The 6 equip ability is useless in the moors. It made me fall on the floor laughing when I read it. Essentially it reduces my induction time to 0 once per fight if my lynx manages to hit a crit. I barely even use pets over there as it is.

Instant ents (although you still have silly animation), or instant lightning-storm. Or of course you can also umm...take your ball and go home

Originally Posted by Laetha

3.) Loremaster inductions are too long and too easily interruptible in this Pay to Win environment.

I have little chance to get a debuff off and a couple damage skills before I'm hacked to pieces. If it's a raid, kiss goodbye getting off *any* skill before I'm dead.

If you fight Reavers and Wargs 1v1, you should always have tar down. Kite them through tar and get enough distance so they can't reach you until your induction goes off. Run through them with Staff strike, rinse and repeat.
In raids, well any class dies in raid focus fire unless they can use damage-stopping emergency skills like HIPS or Feign Death.

If Reavers/Wargs burn Brand+Sprint, then yes, you're screwed and you won't get any induction off. That is the problem with having CC and Slows as only defenses - both can be completely countered by Reavers and Wargs for a short time.

That's just the way it is for a light armor CC class, and it won't change. CC kills the fun for the other side, and (necessary) DR hits LMs very hard. So don't expect to have much of a chance against prepared, high ranked creeps when running solo.

4.) It's time to remove the Morale cost on Loremaster skills.

The whole thing is ridiculous. I'm the only light armour class that can't heal myself unless I sacrifice my DPS. And even then, it's a bit of a joke and would result in basically zero renown gain. RKs still DPS like crazy and can switch to heals. Mini's have flops and are supposedly now they hugest OP class and they're not even a glass canon.

I feel like a pretty glass vase standing in the middle of the road when creeps show up.

/unsigned, because removing the morale cost means they increase the power costs to compensate. In PvE group situations, HoTs counter the morale cost completely, resulting in having lower power costs on our skills, which is more important.

Awareness of Body already reduces them by 40%, so you might consider slotting that if morale costs are such an issue. Also, get more Morale. 8-8.5k is a good spot for PvP.

4.) Some of the Loremaster skills have power costs that are ridiculous. I'm looking at you Wind Lore: 429 power, Ancient Craft: 456 power, Herb lore: 429 and Storm lore: 538.

What is the reasoning behind these ridiclous numbers given that you also make me spend morale on other skills? (Any other class, please chime in with your feedback!)

Quite simple: They are very potent, so they have very high power costs. Storm-Lore and Herb-Lore have cooldowns >2m, so the power cost isn't really an issue with 6k power. Wind-Lore is one of our most potent debuffs, so it should be costly to keep it up permanently. AC has 1m CD, and you can get duration up to 1m, so you can't spam it anyway.

5.) Loremaster ICPR sucks unless you stack items specifically with ICPR.

I have upped my Fate to 890 and I am still chewing through my power like crazy (that is with usually avoiding my high cost skills as listed above). My actual ICPR is only 946, seems a bit silly that Fate supposedly buffs this number but is contributing almost zilch. I am traited Master of Nature's Fury. Maybe I need to look into subbing out some skills, but the ICPR seems to be way off, more than what a few retraits might fix.

946 is awfully low. My ICPR hovers around 1.5k - 1.6k with only 700 Fate.

You absolutely have to slot ICPR relics for your LIs, ICPR wristlets and maybe the new ICPR virtues. Fate doesn't contribute much, always go for raw ICPR.

MoNF chews through power when going all out for a few minutes, so you have to use Staff-Sweep flanks to compensate.

I feel that Casters should get a buff to what Fate contributes to their ICPR similar to how Vitality buffs Guardians.

DPS classes don't get any extra benefit from stats, the 5 Morale/Vit is a tank-only thing.
IMHO all three caster classes have enough options to get power back. Minstrels use Coda return, RKs have aided Self-Motivation, and LMs have traited Power of Wisdom and Staff Sweep, which regenerates power like crazy with Eagle flanks.

I'm pretty much getting owned by Black Arrows like nobody's business.

How? Wind-Lore has 40m range and cuts their damage by 50-60%, and Raven distraction by another (multiplicative) 50% for a total of 75%+.

I haven't fought BAs in the Moors post-ROI, but what changed so that a BA with 25% of his damage can defeat you before you defeat him?

Originally Posted by grinko.at

If you fight Reavers and Wargs 1v1, you should always have tar down. Kite them through tar and get enough distance so they can't reach you until your induction goes off. Run through them with Staff strike, rinse and repeat.
In raids, well any class dies in raid focus fire unless they can use damage-stopping emergency skills like HIPS or Feign Death.

If Reavers/Wargs burn Brand+Sprint, then yes, you're screwed and you won't get any induction off. That is the problem with having CC and Slows as only defenses - both can be completely countered by Reavers and Wargs for a short time.

That's just the way it is for a light armor CC class, and it won't change. CC kills the fun for the other side, and (necessary) DR hits LMs very hard. So don't expect to have much of a chance against prepared, high ranked creeps when running solo.



/unsigned, because removing the morale cost means they increase the power costs to compensate. In PvE group situations, HoTs counter the morale cost completely, resulting in having lower power costs on our skills, which is more important.

Awareness of Body already reduces them by 40%, so you might consider slotting that if morale costs are such an issue. Also, get more Morale. 8-8.5k is a good spot for PvP.



Quite simple: They are very potent, so they have very high power costs. Storm-Lore and Herb-Lore have cooldowns >2m, so the power cost isn't really an issue with 6k power. Wind-Lore is one of our most potent debuffs, so it should be costly to keep it up permanently. AC has 1m CD, and you can get duration up to 1m, so you can't spam it anyway.


946 is awfully low. My ICPR hovers around 1.5k - 1.6k with only 700 Fate.

You absolutely have to slot ICPR relics for your LIs, ICPR wristlets and maybe the new ICPR virtues. Fate doesn't contribute much, always go for raw ICPR.

MoNF chews through power when going all out for a few minutes, so you have to use Staff-Sweep flanks to compensate.


DPS classes don't get any extra benefit from stats, the 5 Morale/Vit is a tank-only thing.
IMHO all three caster classes have enough options to get power back. Minstrels use Coda return, RKs have aided Self-Motivation, and LMs have traited Power of Wisdom and Staff Sweep, which regenerates power like crazy with Eagle flanks.



How? Wind-Lore has 40m range and cuts their damage by 50-60%, and Raven distraction by another (multiplicative) 50% for a total of 75%+.

I haven't fought BAs in the Moors post-ROI, but what changed so that a BA with 25% of his damage can defeat you before you defeat him?

You dont need tar against most reavers/wargs. You only need your stuns, and a BE slow. Against 75% of wargs/reavers you dont need to kite. Kiting a warg is close to useless imo, they can pop sprint and then its even harder for you to hit them.

Playing a Lm really isnt that bad after the update, you just have to adapt your playstyle.

The above is coming from a lvl 73 LM. It isnt that bad, especially once you get geared and lvled.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

I will admit it absolutely sucks to solo AM traited. But it will wreak havoc in groups/raids when played right.

We have an AM lm on our server who likes to look for 1v1s, he's actually very good at it.

Not a great build to fight spiders with, but very strong against most everything else. Just slower combat than speccing for dmg. The debuffs are uber good.

I Disagree with ones that says it's a "learn to play", common sense.
I Agree with the ones that says LMs are having problems with DPS/Inductions/CC, it's a fact.

Originally Posted by Advanced

I Disagree with ones that says it's a "learn to play", common sense.
I Agree with the ones that says LMs are having problems with DPS/Inductions/CC, it's a fact.

The "learn to play" attitude is not wrong you know....

I mean if someone is able to manage well in the current situation and with the current pros and cons that this class has, then it IS possible to be effective despite all the problems.....so those of us who have problems should try and find new ideas and strategies....nothing wrong in accepting that we need to learn....

I used to have problems with Reavers when I began going to the moors (before RoI)......many people said I need to learn to play....so obviously if they were able to fight reavers well, so could I....I just needed a different approach....and thats what I tried.....and it caused quite a difference.....

So as long as someone claims, realistically and without store bought advantages, that he can manage the fight with our current skillset, I know I can too, and I will try to bring myself to know how to do it


All this discussion has really made me eager now to renew my subscription and get back to the action


P.S. - Btw, those of you saying of having problems against BAs, keep them in melee.....BAs still have lousy melee skills.....even after the update.....

Originally Posted by silverblade5445

The "learn to play" attitude is not wrong you know....

I mean if someone is able to manage well in the current situation and with the current pros and cons that this class has, then it IS possible to be effective despite all the problems.....so those of us who have problems should try and find new ideas and strategies....nothing wrong in accepting that we need to learn....

I used to have problems with Reavers when I began going to the moors (before RoI)......many people said I need to learn to play....so obviously if they were able to fight reavers well, so could I....I just needed a different approach....and thats what I tried.....and it caused quite a difference.....

So as long as someone claims, realistically and without store bought advantages, that he can manage the fight with our current skillset, I know I can too, and I will try to bring myself to know how to do it


All this discussion has really made me eager now to renew my subscription and get back to the action


P.S. - Btw, those of you saying of having problems against BAs, keep them in melee.....BAs still have lousy melee skills.....even after the update.....

I disagree, sorry. For me it's a problem with the LM, not with the players.

Originally Posted by Advanced

LMs are having problems with DPS/Inductions/CC, it's a fact.

It isn't, only your opinion. The majority of LM players have no problem with inductions.


Honestly >Advanced<, if the LM playstyle bothers you so much that you have to create dozens after dozens of posts complaining about it, maybe you should just accept the fact that it doesn't fit to your liking.

Want a caster with induction-less top tier damage? Roll a RK and be happy.

No matter how many threads you create about inductions and asking to turn the LM into a pseudo-RK, we will continue to voice our disagreement, and I highly doubt that Turbine will revamp the class and remove inductions just so you can have your LM/RK hybrid.

I mostly solo. 50% of the time, I'm solo off attacking creeps doing quests, the other 50% of the time, I'm off in the usual Elendilmir "everyone is solo but in the same place" style of play. I'm really not having an issue with the 'moors in ROI thus far.

Lore-masters are making the same mistakes they normally make, which is running raid builds in the 'moors. If your power is over 4500, you have too much power. Your fate? Doesn't matter. We're a burst damage class, play as though you're literally a Middle-Earth suicide bomber. I don't even refer to my lore-master as a lore-master anymore, I put together what I call an Elf-Sapper build.

With the 'moors being how they are, creeps having huge morale pools and damage, you have to adjust likewise. You can't sit there and kite them anymore, everyone has slows and they have too much morale to really kite. Our CC was nerfed to hell and back, blinding flash isn't even worth having on your taskbar. You can't stun your way to victory, because of how badly they've destroyed CC out there.

First thing I did when I signed into ROI was check out how much morale my Reaver had. Then I had to decide, what's going to be of the most use to my LM in the 'moors? Vitality and lots of it. My build is over a thousand vitality with over 10k morale along with a 4300 power pool with 1200 ICPR (from only 300 fate, fate is garbage stat). My tactical damage? 60%, which is very good considering the amount of vitality I've been able to accumulate. This is generally enough morale to get enough DPS off that you end up being viable.

Solo'ing melee classes, fire-lore and then you have to get the sticky gourd off. Stand in the sticky gourd firespot. Reavers and wargs will invariably try to get behind you, move in a circle around you. Each time they do that, the damage from the gourd reapplies. I recently fought one reaver who weaved in and out of the gourd so much that it did half of the work for me. Secondly, use the call to the valar skill to make sure you can get ents off without induction setbacks. After that, it's a DPS race. With really well ranked reavers that know not to move in and out of the hotspot, yeah, you're going to lose. But you at least have a shot.

Solo'ing ranged classes, get up in that face. Staff strike, staff sweep for extra crit chance, gourd them, storm lore, get your lynx up in there. Can't sit back from range and try to kill them, have to get up in it. Best thing for a lore-master to do? Rank a reaver to r6, then come back to your LM and play him the exact same way. It's not only more fun, it's more effective. I'm having more fun in RoI than I was in SoA, even though our CC had a role and a point in SoA, heh.

Working in small groups, especially at the ever-present STAB/WTAB standoffs, put work into your burning embers. Burning Embers +range can get you up to 46m range, outside the range of BA's and spiders. Burning embers +pulses can get six pulses out of the skill. Three second cooldown with a triple stack means that you're going to be hitting targets from outside of their range, and you're going to be hurting them over a long period of time. Reavers haven't really adjusted to such tactics, it's a great way to make them have to move even further back in order to break combat and charge. Slotting your fire DPS and then cycling through burning embers/cracked earth (especially good with +range)/Embers/Ents/Embers is a very effective way to get DPS out there.

In big zerg battles, pitch yourself into the middle of the creeps and get every single AoE off. Yeah, you'll die afterwards, but you'll rake in infamy from whatever dies and disrupt a good amount of their DPS dealing with you. Again, this only works if you build FOR THE 'MOORS and stop bringing out 6k morale, 7k power builds. They don't work in PvMP and you will only die in frustration with them. Stack your vitality as your prime stat, will as your secondary for increased base damage and forget about fate. Fate has no purpose in the 'moors. Trait your class skills to reduce the morale costs of attacks and trait against the sticky gourd induction.

ROI is do'able as a lore-master, just have to think of yourself more as a tactical damage reaver and less of a CC support class... but only if you stop caring about dying, because you have to be a bit suicidal to make the class work effectively anymore.

Originally Posted by XavierVE1

ROI is do'able as a lore-master, just have to think of yourself more as a tactical damage reaver and less of a CC support class... but only if you stop caring about dying, because you have to be a bit suicidal to make the class work effectively anymore.

And that sums up the problems very nicely. Basically you are saying that no matter how well LMs worked before,Turbine has decreed that changes will be made and you will learn to like it and play a different way. If you don't like it, tough! Go find another class! Exactly as they did with the Minstrel.

Originally Posted by podgie_bear

And that sums up the problems very nicely. Basically you are saying that no matter how well LMs worked before,Turbine has decreed that changes will be made and you will learn to like it and play a different way. If you don't like it, tough! Go find another class! Exactly as they did with the Minstrel.

You play the game you're given. Whining about it doesn't really accomplish anything, just adapt and overcome. Not a big deal, really. Since the start of the game, they've made countless "balances" and "re-balances." It's all some of the devs know how to do (CoughOrionCough).

Doesn't mean the class isn't viable in the 'moors, just is viable in a different way.

Thanks on the feedback so far. I don't have all of my gear setup yet, so I appreciate hearing the different builds that some of you are going out there with.

I will admit to not having retraited seriously to play with other aspects of the class to try something a little different.

Definitely going to rethink the Fate stat.

I still think the inductions are slightly too long. I don't want a removal of inductions, I just want it toned down a little bit.

I do fine, by the way, in the 6 man groups I generally end up in... it's getting caught alone that sometimes is an issue.



As far as BAs.... Even in melee range can't they still do their ranged skills? I guess I don't know enough about the class to understand why it's disabling to fight them in melee range other than that we do have a few awesome melee skills.


Keep it coming, please, this has been nice to read so far.

As far as BAs.... Even in melee range can't they still do their ranged skills? I guess I don't know enough about the class to understand why it's disabling to fight them in melee range other than that we do have a few awesome melee skills.

A decent chunk of BA skills have inductions, and as an LM, you know how brutal induction setback is. The other point in your favor is movement. Moving through the BA makes him have to turn around, plus a BA's natural inclination when you charge him is to move backwards, which takes out all of his skills that can't be done on the run. Just better to be up in their face.

I Disagree with the ones that says Turbine will not look for me and other players that agrees LM are having problems.
I am a player that agrees with a lot of other LMs that thinks LMs have low survivability, low dps (MoNF line too), and tooo long inductions.
And that is what I think, if you don't agree, it's your opinion, but this post is about opinion.

For me turbine needs to improve A LOT the damage MoNF line gives, and reduce inductions A LOT that MoNF reduces. And in general, someway to improve our survival efficiently.
With this solution, the players that wants damage traits MoNF, the ones that don't like, traits Yellow or Blue line. All happy.
Now, if the problem is "i don't like to see happy people", go have some beer.

Originally Posted by Advanced

I Disagree with the ones that says Turbine will not look for me and other players that agrees LM are having problems.
I am a player that agrees with a lot of other LMs that thinks LMs have low survivability, low dps (MoNF line too), and tooo long inductions.
And that is what I think, if you don't agree, it's your opinion, but this post is about opinion.

For me turbine needs to improve A LOT the damage MoNF line gives, and reduce inductions A LOT that MoNF reduces. And in general, someway to improve our survival efficiently.
With this solution, the players that wants damage traits MoNF, the ones that don't like, traits Yellow or Blue line. All happy.
Now, if the problem is "i don't like to see happy people", go have some beer.

Do you even play in the moors...... ./facepalm

I agree with everything Xavier said, besides blinding flash. I <3 blinding flash and i trait it. Gives the space needed to get a burning embers off

its simple Creeps are overpowered .. buying rank 10-15 skills as a rank 1-9 have screwed any freep PVPER over.. those of you that can solo all the time arent on Brandywine.... LM's are now the lowest on the totempole for dps etc of any class- something needs to be done .. im not asking for your opinions .. i know the deal i pvp solo raid etc - LM needs alittle love.. we didnt get anything new on the update .. we just got things we should have had - any class should have -dont talk just listen- dont respond because i dont care what you think -just throw us a fricken bone-

Originally Posted by JustGoodEnough

its simple Creeps are overpowered .. buying rank 10-15 skills as a rank 1-9 have screwed any freep PVPER over.. those of you that can solo all the time arent on Brandywine.... LM's are now the lowest on the totempole for dps etc of any class- something needs to be done .. im not asking for your opinions .. i know the deal i pvp solo raid etc - LM needs alittle love.. we didnt get anything new on the update .. we just got things we should have had - any class should have -dont talk just listen- dont respond because i dont care what you think -just throw us a fricken bone-

I think a better word instead of overpowered would be... closer to even? The creeps get to tell us what we told them for a long long time... ADAPT.

Originally Posted by treef

I think a better word instead of overpowered would be... closer to even? The creeps get to tell us what we told them for a long long time... ADAPT.

LOL, no kidding. For so long the freeps owned the creeps, and now that freeps are on the receiving end everyone starts freaking out and crying foul. Hey, when the shoe fits......

Originally Posted by opurt

LOL, no kidding. For so long the freeps owned the creeps, and now that freeps are on the receiving end everyone starts freaking out and crying foul. Hey, when the shoe fits......

Pay to win is fail... if thats your response read deeper to what i said .. adapting is easy - Pay to win is cheap- and fail and you know it- LMs need a little love

Originally Posted by JustGoodEnough

LM needs alittle love.. we didnt get anything new on the update .. we just got things we should have had - any class should have

You mean a 46m range on BE didn't improve things for you at all? If you get a 2nd age staff you can have a 49m range on burning embers: 9m further than any creep skill. Or how 3 BE DoTs from yourself now stack, which is far better than before.

For what rank you are, it's amazing the things you "choose" to leave out.

I have one on Firefoot server.

Other problem is when LM is doing things by itself, we need generally to land 2 skills to damage, one to stop the attacker that is setbacking our inductions, and other to really do some damage, this is taking LMs DPS to the ground. "You LMs will have to stop to land skills" "Nooo" "Ok, you didn't like, now you will have to stop and have a long induction that will setback if someone hits you" "facepalm".

Originally Posted by Advanced

I have one on Firefoot server.

Other problem is when LM is doing things by itself, we need generally to land 2 skills to damage, one to stop the attacker that is setbacking our inductions, and other to really do some damage, this is taking LMs DPS to the ground. "You LMs will have to stop to land skills" "Nooo" "Ok, you didn't like, now you will have to stop and have a long induction that will setback if someone hits you" "facepalm".

Heeyyyyy that's how I feel a lot So totally plus rep.....

im not speaking of updated or improved skills like 46 meter BE .. when useable ... we need something new and dynamic- and again pvp has been skewed..

This lm is just trolling guys, chill out.

I don't know his skills and gear. But on my server (snowbourn) we (lms) are the only freep class able to pown any rank of any creep class on a 1 vs 1. Only rank 10+ defilers and WL are hard, but they are not many, and 1 or 2 reavers that play very very good.
Rest is just formality, we had huge boost with ROI.

I think this people crying all around don't play the same game..

Originally Posted by Advanced

I have one on Firefoot server.

Other problem is when LM is doing things by itself, we need generally to land 2 skills to damage, one to stop the attacker that is setbacking our inductions, and other to really do some damage, this is taking LMs DPS to the ground. "You LMs will have to stop to land skills" "Nooo" "Ok, you didn't like, now you will have to stop and have a long induction that will setback if someone hits you" "facepalm".

This guy knows what he is talking about. He left out one important part. If we miss/resist/evade ect one of those 2 necessary skills, we are dead. I speak in terms of a one on one fight obviously. Any LM who says they are doing fine must never play solo. I do fine in groups, that isn't the problem people.

Originally Posted by billybob321

This guy knows what he is talking about. He left out one important part. If we miss/resist/evade ect one of those 2 necessary skills, we are dead. I speak in terms of a one on one fight obviously. Any LM who says they are doing fine must never play solo. I do fine in groups, that isn't the problem people.

Sure man, forgot about that too. Nice point.


And for someone, Im not trolling...

So, fun for all, not only for one or two.

Originally Posted by korig

This lm is just trolling guys, chill out.

I don't know his skills and gear. But on my server (snowbourn) we (lms) are the only freep class able to pown any rank of any creep class on a 1 vs 1. Only rank 10+ defilers and WL are hard, but they are not many, and 1 or 2 reavers that play very very good.
Rest is just formality, we had huge boost with ROI.

I think this people crying all around don't play the same game..

not sure who your talking about but im not a troll-just stating my opinion and others feel the same--

Originally Posted by korig

This lm is just trolling guys, chill out.

I don't know his skills and gear. But on my server (snowbourn) we (lms) are the only freep class able to pown any rank of any creep class on a 1 vs 1. Only rank 10+ defilers and WL are hard, but they are not many, and 1 or 2 reavers that play very very good.
Rest is just formality, we had huge boost with ROI.

I think this people crying all around don't play the same game..

Same here. Off all my toons, walking around in the Moors alone is easiest on the LM. I'm an elf, so I do use my racial stealth skill too, I find that really helps out there.

Originally Posted by Minulinnwen

Same here. Off all my toons, walking around in the Moors alone is easiest on the LM. I'm an elf, so I do use my racial stealth skill too, I find that really helps out there.

If u want 30m every time u do it, good for u, I have less patience than that.

Originally Posted by korig

This lm is just trolling guys, chill out.

I don't know his skills and gear. But on my server (snowbourn) we (lms) are the only freep class able to pown any rank of any creep class on a 1 vs 1. Only rank 10+ defilers and WL are hard, but they are not many, and 1 or 2 reavers that play very very good.
Rest is just formality, we had huge boost with ROI.

I think this people crying all around don't play the same game..

Original poster isn't a troll and it's not a guy either, thanks..... She's actually a married woman believe it or not! :-O


I am beginning to think that LMs aren't as big of targets on all servers.

Originally Posted by Laetha

Original poster isn't a troll and it's not a guy either, thanks..... She's actually a married woman believe it or not! :-O


I am beginning to think that LMs aren't as big of targets on all servers.

Dont worry he aint talking about you....

Originally Posted by Laetha

Original poster isn't a troll and it's not a guy either, thanks..... She's actually a married woman believe it or not! :-O


I am beginning to think that LMs aren't as big of targets on all servers.

It is either that or their creeps are stupid. I consistently see the entire craid focus in on me for an easy take down. Even when I stay back they send in stun immune reavers who can slow me for 30s, hit me for 1k/sec and pot out of my stuns after they become stunnable again. Then again they lose 250 out of 14k morale from potting my stun so I guess that evens it out...or does it? Having some of the 75 pvp armor has helped but it still doesn't feel like enough. I need to have some 15m teleport to get away from the creep I'm fighting..lol. I just can't figure out how to make room between me and the creep before I am dead. BA's still are pretty easy one on one. Reavers are okay if I get the first hit in from a distance. Wargs, WL, Defilers, and Spiders all destroy me.