Thread: Rally Up!

Originally Posted by MasterBurik

I'm mainly curious as to what exactly Orien sees this class as. How do YOU want the class to tank, and whatnot. Hints and tidbits giving us limited view to what direction you are moving us is nice, but I'd like to know what direction all these little changes will take us.

Giving us band-aids such as increased mitigation just make us as convoluted as the old champ tanks were...trying to be a weaker form of something already in existence.

Also...how about the ability to absorb overhealing, then unleash it out as a group heal? So healers could heal us with the satisfaction that we could either use it as a morale bubble or pass it out to the group/raid to help all. Kinda fits what I see a warden as (bringer of hope to those who have little or none against the oncoming darkness...although in this case it is morale that we gain that we can pass to those with us). Also with that...maybe a legendary (like shield cap) that does what the limfrain/captain revealing mark does: Return % of outgoing damage as healing. Also fits what I have pictured a warden should be like. Could also justify a pump in our DPS

I would tend to agree more with this. Wardens do not need to be made into pseudo guards to tank properly. I have no problem if I take 20% more damage if I give something of equal value back to the group.

Besides... I always saw guards more as solders surviving through armor, and wardens as folk heroes surviving through conviction and inspiring others.

Originally Posted by MasterBurik

I'm mainly curious as to what exactly Orien sees this class as. How do YOU want the class to tank, and whatnot. Hints and tidbits giving us limited view to what direction you are moving us is nice, but I'd like to know what direction all these little changes will take us.

This is exactly it. At some point someone needs to sit down and say exactly what the warden is, and how we do it. Try this as an experiment: take any other class, and state exactly what their role(s) is, and how they do it. Now try it with the warden, and you get a mess of "ifs" and "buts".

Mitigation is not the answer. Different but equal is what we should be striving for and with a combination of BPE and HoT's, this is fairly easy to achieve. Give wardens some ability to ignore finesse so we aren't getting hit stupidly hard and often in raids and in the moors, make HoT's scale effectively so they are of some use outside of solo'ing, and then, depending on what we see, more BPE may be needed. From comparing with guards, wardens only have a single digit advantage in evade and evade alone in the BPE department. 8% evade does not balance out 20-25% mitigation especially given the fact that A) some attacks can't be BPE'd at all whereas mitigation works on everything, B) BPE is useless if a stun or knockdown hits, and C) we need to spend stupid amounts of time getting our BPE up in the first place, we should see some bang for our buck.

Originally Posted by MasterBurik

Also...how about the ability to absorb overhealing, then unleash it out as a group heal? So healers could heal us with the satisfaction that we could either use it as a morale bubble or pass it out to the group/raid to help all. Kinda fits what I see a warden as (bringer of hope to those who have little or none against the oncoming darkness...although in this case it is morale that we gain that we can pass to those with us). Also with that...maybe a legendary (like shield cap) that does what the limfrain/captain revealing mark does: Return % of outgoing damage as healing. Also fits what I have pictured a warden should be like. Could also justify a pump in our DPS

I'm not sure how this would work mechanics wise, but the more I think about it the more I like a morale bubble type of thing. I'll explain why.

I do feel that it's kind of a gimmick that 1/3 of the classes now have this new mechanic, and really to me it only fits with the Minstrel lore/gameplay. I don't think it fits in with what a Champion is all about even though I do love playing my Champ for the first time in awhile.

I think that this mechanic would fit perfectly with a Warden though and it's really disappointing that they didn't think so as well. We're a medium armor class, we don't mitigate well but we BPE very well. I don't think we should mitigate as much as a Guard. Our heals have never really been a tool to keep us alive over anything else, really just to buy us time in the worst situations. I think morale bubbles would be even better at that, and they would scale excellently. Morale bubbles would be perfect for us because we get hit harder than other tanks, so these bubbles would allow healers time to fill us back up. I don't think it should necessarily replace our heals (because that's an iconic part of Wardening) but we should have a new 4-5 length pair of Gambits or something that put bubbles onto us, of course a bigger bubble with a longer Gambit. I don't think these should be on par with the Champ bubbles, since we don't have cooldowns that would be ridiculously OP. Maybe a ~1.5k bubble at length 5 and ~1k at length 4. These could continuously be applied to help reduce damage taken, or put a cooldown like we have with the stun immunity (or just make the Gambit Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh-Sh that'll slow us down! LOL) and make the bubbles a little bigger. This would also make our (small) self heals useful by giving us a few seconds of a window in which our real morale won't drop and we can use our heals to fill up a little bit.

Maybe even take it away from a Gambit and make it a clicky but I really like the Gambit idea. A cooldown would be fine with me since we have already introduced that with the stun immunity. I think this would be great because we would not become Guards with gambits, and we wouldn't become Champ tanks either. Our smaller bubbles would be more active and allow our healers to catch up if they get a bit behind with all the damage we are taking. I can see even a small 1.5k bubble being a problem in soloing, but honestly if I've never cared that Wardens can solo stuff other classes can't (PvE). The game shouldn't be balanced around that, and Champs have a bubble more than twice as powerful every minute anyways. I'm not too worried about being OP solo (PvE), and I don't think ideas should be dismissed based on that principle. As for PvP if you just want to spam bubbles to stay alive you sure as heck aren't going to kill anything (unlike 2 of the 3 classes that can currently use bubbles), nothing about that is OP to me but I would leave that up to the Devs. At the very least I hope they seriously consider using this new mechanic, that screams Warden to me, for the right class.

How about an empty bubble?

While in determination stance, your HoTs, instead of healing you, increase your max morale (empty bubble). IE if restoration heals 1000 points of morale normally, using the skill will instead give you a temporary 1000 morale point bubble (lasts duration of skill). Conviction is not included. You're still going to need someone to FILL your increased max morale.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by geoboy

How about an empty bubble?

While in determination stance, your HoTs, instead of healing you, increase your max morale (empty bubble). IE if restoration heals 1000 points of morale normally, using the skill will instead give you a temporary 1000 morale point bubble (lasts duration of skill). Conviction is not included. You're still going to need someone to FILL your increased max morale.

Just a thought.

I like it! Encourage stance swapping, I've always liked doing that to get the most out of certain situations. Take the TOTAL morale that would be healed by Persevere, Safeguard, CoS, or Restoration and turn it into a bubble that lasts the same 18s or whatever. Determination is already less about avoiding and more about reducing (with the small crit defense, that was at least the idea) so this would work great with that stance. The ICMR would also be like a constant Persevere ticking, so that's cool too. Hey! Orion! This could be a major focus of your fist revamp built around Determination stance

+rep for taking what I was saying and putting it into a simple implementation that would really fit with what I was aiming for

Originally Posted by geoboy

How about an empty bubble?

While in determination stance, your HoTs, instead of healing you, increase your max morale (empty bubble). IE if restoration heals 1000 points of morale normally, using the skill will instead give you a temporary 1000 morale point bubble (lasts duration of skill). Conviction is not included. You're still going to need someone to FILL your increased max morale.

Just a thought.

I'd rather see it attached to a trait instead of a stance (although, stances finally matching to lines would be nice). Like updating Shield to be a Morale-Bubble/HoT based tanking, while Fist could be Avoidance/Crit Reduction based tanking. Spear sticks as a DPS line.
It could also formulate multiple variations of Wardens dependent on either how they want to tank, or how current/future boss fights might need to be taken. Maybe one fight you aren't hit much on your own, but the hits can be hard..BAM, go Fist. Another one, there are hits flying all around in multiple variations...BAM, go shield. Some sort of combo of both, that requires two tanks...BAM, one of each (or Shield and a guard/champ).
The gambits are adjusted/changed by the traits, but they are all still fairly useful. You would still need Avoidance gambits while Shield traited, but you get more bang for your buck with your healing gambits. And vice-versa.

Yeah, that's an idea for stance-based. Instead of tying it to determination, tie it to fist line. It keeps some of the challenge as well - keeping a couple of these +defenses running all the time while maintaining threat. One thing, though that I'd like to see is the duration NOT tied to heal pulses, but rather given a set length. (say 20s)

Either way, it'd need some refinement, but I don't see it as something that would be particularly overpowered.

Originally Posted by geoboy

Yeah, that's an idea for stance-based. Instead of tying it to determination, tie it to fist line. It keeps some of the challenge as well - keeping a couple of these +defenses running all the time while maintaining threat. One thing, though that I'd like to see is the duration NOT tied to heal pulses, but rather given a set length. (say 20s)

Either way, it'd need some refinement, but I don't see it as something that would be particularly overpowered.

Why does it need to have a duration at all? If the only way we can fill it ourselves is to pump out healing gambits, we won't be able to fill it up on our own anyways. There's really no way to make it overpowered, unless you are running with a full group of healers to keep it up...why would ya do that? Of course, that is if Turbine doesn't set up a morale cap to the bubble.
To add to the bubble though, I reiterate the "unleashing" of the morale bubble to the group, by dividing the bubble equally to everyone. Maybe a 5-length gambit to do so?

There are some old relics (T9 time) people are still using.

One famous is the Emerald of the Verdant Glen that gives ICPR, Incoming Healing and 'Tatical Defense', a stat that tecnically doesen't exist anymore (anyone please correct me if I'm wrong). Will any of those get updated?

(Ok, this if off Warden forum, but is there somewhere to post it?)

Originally Posted by Esegar

There are some old relics (T9 time) people are still using.

One famous is the Emerald of the Verdant Glen that gives ICPR, Incoming Healing and 'Tatical Defense', a stat that tecnically doesen't exist anymore (anyone please correct me if I'm wrong). Will any of those get updated?

(Ok, this if off Warden forum, but is there somewhere to post it?)

I doubt they change those old relics from Tact Def to Tact Mitigation. I would assume they are trying to phase those old relics out of the game and the nerf to the Def vs Mit would expedite that.

Since this thread has deteriorated into a suggestion/wish list. I have come to the conclusion that the only way to "fix" Wadens and keep the recent changes to the basic combat system (passives removal and the adding of Radia.., erm, Finesse) is to have a complete replacement of our class traits, even some virtues need changing(which would effect all classes). No matter what our input, the Devs will have their own ideas, and ofcourse, as stubborn and withdrawn as they are, will never actively discuss it with our class. Our last, best hope is to have one Class Dev that actually leveled up and plays a Warden, not these word of mouth blindly trusted "yesmen".

Some news,

I will be making some changes to the HoTs. This is going to be a pretty significant boost. The HoTs did not scale at the same rate that the damage did and this is causing a lot of the issue that you are seeing so far. (As you have pointed out, as well.) This change will be going live with Update 5.

I will also be making some changes to skills to enable them to contribute to partial mitigation. This should help to reduce the amount of damage incoming. This is not going to put you on the same level as guardians in terms of damage reduction, but couple with the previous mentioned change, the two should be significant. Update 5 time frame.

I am also considering moving the tactical contribution from Will to Might. This will really only affect two skills and out-going healing, but it seems that this is a logical choice. Update 5, if it happens.

The other bugs listed in the original post here, should all be addressed in Update 5, as well.

That is all for now.

Thanks for the update! I'm not sure how these partial mits will turn out, but it certainly can't hurt. Tying tactical offense /outgoing healing to might is really a logical way to buff HoTs, and think it only goes along with other classes (IE captain).

Thanks for your continued work on this.

That is excellent news. Thank you Orion.

Only one question ... when you say HoTs will be boosted, are you including our leeches in this or just the pure HoTs?

Thank you for your efforts and communication. The proposed changes sound like they will address the issues I and many are having with the class.

Originally Posted by Orion

Some news,

I will be making some changes to the HoTs. This is going to be a pretty significant boost. The HoTs did not scale at the same rate that the damage did and this is causing a lot of the issue that you are seeing so far. (As you have pointed out, as well.) This change will be going live with Update 5.

I will also be making some changes to skills to enable them to contribute to partial mitigation. This should help to reduce the amount of damage incoming. This is not going to put you on the same level as guardians in terms of damage reduction, but couple with the previous mentioned change, the two should be significant. Update 5 time frame.

I am also considering moving the tactical contribution from Will to Might. This will really only affect two skills and out-going healing, but it seems that this is a logical choice. Update 5, if it happens.

The other bugs listed in the original post here, should all be addressed in Update 5, as well.

That is all for now.

You're awesome Orion, keep up the good work. I hope these fixes do what they're meant to. Really like the partial mitigation (I hope it's more significant than a few percent), hopefully this is coupled with a small boost to our overall BPE in the future.

Originally Posted by Orion

Some news,

I will be making some changes to the HoTs. This is going to be a pretty significant boost. The HoTs did not scale at the same rate that the damage did and this is causing a lot of the issue that you are seeing so far. (As you have pointed out, as well.) This change will be going live with Update 5.

I will also be making some changes to skills to enable them to contribute to partial mitigation. This should help to reduce the amount of damage incoming. This is not going to put you on the same level as guardians in terms of damage reduction, but couple with the previous mentioned change, the two should be significant. Update 5 time frame.

I am also considering moving the tactical contribution from Will to Might. This will really only affect two skills and out-going healing, but it seems that this is a logical choice. Update 5, if it happens.

The other bugs listed in the original post here, should all be addressed in Update 5, as well.

That is all for now.

All I can say is thank you for a dev that listens to what we say. Wardens are by far the most vocal of the classes and it cannot be easy to put up with us. But thank you all the same orion!

I suppose I'll be the first realist here:

Great. Now instead of rolling all my avoidance buffs I ill now roll all my HoTs like I used to while raiding in OD. Bye bye avoidance advantage. I suppose as long as we are more survivable I will be happy though.

Thank you very much for all of the effort and time spent, and more than anything, for listening


If I may though: what are Partial Mitigations? Is that partial BPE?

Originally Posted by Faithbringer

I suppose I'll be the first realist here:

Great. Now instead of rolling all my avoidance buffs I ill now roll all my HoTs like I used to while raiding in OD. Bye bye avoidance advantage. I suppose as long as we are more survivable I will be happy though.

It would be nice if some of the buffs were more inline with Shield Mastery for their duration. Instead of focussing complete mastery rotations around buffs we could do a round or two of hots and then a round of buffs. I was just excited to get any positive news beyond bug fixes in a short amount of time.

Originally Posted by Faithbringer

I suppose I'll be the first realist here:

Great. Now instead of rolling all my avoidance buffs I ill now roll all my HoTs like I used to while raiding in OD. Bye bye avoidance advantage. I suppose as long as we are more survivable I will be happy though.

No good vibes from you? You give me a sad.

In a BPE rotation, using your buffs and BM in conjunction, you should have time to put on 2-4 HoT's depending on the length of the HoT's you chose, what masteries you set aside, and how long your willing to put WoS and DoW down for. Usually I let the two go down for like 5 seconds each in exchange for Conviction, Perservere, and Restoration. It's fairly power hungry, and costs a few hundred morale from BM, but generally it's the best survivability roation I've found.

Buff HoT's and we get an increased survivability bonus regardless, I doubt they would be so powerful as to be our primary means of defense in raids and harder 6-mans.

Originally Posted by Mysterion

It would be nice if some of the buffs were more inline with Shield Mastery for their duration. Instead of focussing complete mastery rotations around buffs we could do a round or two of hots and then a round of buffs. I was just excited to get any positive news beyond bug fixes in a short amount of time.

Or set them all at 30s, then add 5s to duration for each shield trait. 20s duration is really really short, I agree.

Originally Posted by Regero

Thank you very much for all of the effort and time spent, and more than anything, for listening


If I may though: what are Partial Mitigations? Is that partial BPE?

Yes. Partial Parry, Block and Evade.

I'd still like to know why we lost 3% of our spear bleeds when our dps was supposed to increase. Seeing wardens running around with swords because of this change is just... weird, lol.

The 20 second/30 second duration for BPE buffs and 18 second for HoTs does make juggling a rotation ... interesting. It would make life easier if they were all on the same timer and tied in to the 15 second mastery timer (ie 30/45/60 seconds each). As to stuck in a different rotation, all I have to say is most of the game is about rotations for every class and wardens are no different. We just have masteries/gambit builders to complicate it a bit more and we will still need to recognize when to switch to a different rotation, how to fit in certain key gambits to our normal rotation and overall what will be best in different circumstances ... part of what I have always loved about this class.

I've always been against consolidating all our skills to make rotations easier. Isn't that why we're Wardens? If anything, tanking rotations will be easier now that we don't have to spend hardly any time on threat.

Thanks Orion. Now, how Soon^TM until Update 5 comes out?

After some consideration, I agree that I don't want them to be all the same length. Some of the buffs, however, do have a really short duration.

Originally Posted by Orion

Some news,

I will be making some changes to the HoTs. This is going to be a pretty significant boost. The HoTs did not scale at the same rate that the damage did and this is causing a lot of the issue that you are seeing so far. (As you have pointed out, as well.) This change will be going live with Update 5.

I will also be making some changes to skills to enable them to contribute to partial mitigation. This should help to reduce the amount of damage incoming. This is not going to put you on the same level as guardians in terms of damage reduction, but couple with the previous mentioned change, the two should be significant. Update 5 time frame.

I am also considering moving the tactical contribution from Will to Might. This will really only affect two skills and out-going healing, but it seems that this is a logical choice. Update 5, if it happens.

The other bugs listed in the original post here, should all be addressed in Update 5, as well.

That is all for now.

Great news!

I do appreciate it, but is anything being done to help our initial (Pull + 10 seconds) Survivability? Dying or immediately being saddled with the NS debuff 5-15 seconds into a fight isn't fun

Originally Posted by japridemor

Thanks Orion. Now, how Soon^TM until Update 5 comes out?

Update 5 is currently targeted for sometime in December, so now is an excellent time to level Alts while waiting for Return of the Waden(tm)

I do appreciate it, but is anything being done to help our initial (Pull + 10 seconds) Survivability? Dying or immediately being saddled with the NS debuff 5-15 seconds into a fight isn't fun

It's always been like this for a warden. The first 10 seconds of a fight are tricky, but that's what makes the class advanced in my opinion. Knowing how to get your gambits going in such a way that you get aggro and buffs up. That's just my opinion, though. I like the way it is because it requires thought.

----------

Side note on the DoW and WoS durations. I think a legacy to increase duration would be a nice fix. As is, they are fine because you can already keep them up 100% of the time if you want to. Again, to me it goes back to the advanced part of the class. You have to make a choice in how you play. Do you want the buff up all the time or do you want to focus on other gambits. All about your personal playstyle.

That being said, I think the buffs play a larger role now than they used to.

----------

Again, thank you Orion. I look forward to update 5

Sweet, awesome changes. At the very least, they should bring us up to the level of viability we had pre-ROI. I love the idea of boosting our partials. This is a perfect way to add extra mitigation while being consistent with the way this class works and I'm surprised I didn't think of this myself.

Are our leeches being looked at at all? EoB, Resolution and Fierce Resolve are in need of scaling as well.

It seems to me and please correct me if I am wrong, that finesse has a more direct impact on Wardens that any other tanking class. Is that something that will be getting reviewed as well?

Thanks for all your hard work and taking the time to address the issues of our class.

Originally Posted by geoboy

After some consideration, I agree that I don't want them to be all the same length. Some of the buffs, however, do have a really short duration.

I agree on both counts. I don't think they should be consolidated, and I don't think they should all be the same. With that said, Wary Blocks should add +15 (that's right, not just 10) to ALL Gambits duration, or at least include WoS!

Originally Posted by Orion

Some news,

I will be making some changes to the HoTs. This is going to be a pretty significant boost. The HoTs did not scale at the same rate that the damage did and this is causing a lot of the issue that you are seeing so far. (As you have pointed out, as well.) This change will be going live with Update 5.

I will also be making some changes to skills to enable them to contribute to partial mitigation. This should help to reduce the amount of damage incoming. This is not going to put you on the same level as guardians in terms of damage reduction, but couple with the previous mentioned change, the two should be significant. Update 5 time frame.

I am also considering moving the tactical contribution from Will to Might. This will really only affect two skills and out-going healing, but it seems that this is a logical choice. Update 5, if it happens.

The other bugs listed in the original post here, should all be addressed in Update 5, as well.

That is all for now.

Sounds promising, we'll see how it plays out live.

I have to say though, I don't care if wardens are on the same level as guardians in terms of damage reduction. I only care that the damage spread isn't so drastic as it is now, getting hit for a couple hundred more per normal hit is cool, getting hit 1k more on a crit is also fine. Anything more than 1.5k on a devastate and people will complain, and rightfully so.

Originally Posted by Fenaril

Great news!

I do appreciate it, but is anything being done to help our initial (Pull + 10 seconds) Survivability? Dying or immediately being saddled with the NS debuff 5-15 seconds into a fight isn't fun

Yeah, this. I don't really die during pulls but it's not cool getting down to less than 1/4 or my morale either.

Originally Posted by Regero

No good vibes from you? You give me a sad.

In a BPE rotation, using your buffs and BM in conjunction, you should have time to put on 2-4 HoT's depending on the length of the HoT's you chose, what masteries you set aside, and how long your willing to put WoS and DoW down for. Usually I let the two go down for like 5 seconds each in exchange for Conviction, Perservere, and Restoration. It's fairly power hungry, and costs a few hundred morale from BM, but generally it's the best survivability roation I've found.

Buff HoT's and we get an increased survivability bonus regardless, I doubt they would be so powerful as to be our primary means of defense in raids and harder 6-mans.

Nope. No good vibes from me on this one. As another poster stated, this puts us in a position as good as the one we were in Pre-RoI. I guess that is a good thing... but that is still a bit behind Guardians in pecking order.


My opinion is that if Wardens are to be the PROACTIVE tank (which they should be ... think ahead) then they should have a tool in their box for every possible problem (within reason). An excellent, skilled Warden should be able to have the tenacity to maintain a "rhythm of preventative and recuperative skills" that not only helps him survive, but also to help him prevent nasty things that might disrupt said rhythm. If we get stunned, disarmed, or silenced then a huge portion of our capabilities to maintain our rhythm is shattered. Detractors of this argument will say that all tanks are susceptible to these things ... agreed, but anybody who has played a Guardian knows that it is to a much a lesser degree.

My problem (outside of the current we explode in two hits) is that if we are going to be the most negatively impacted by these effects, then we should be the class that has the best means of preventing them shouldn't? Not easily, but we should have the capability. As it stands right now, if we make a pull and get stunned immediately, then disarmed immediately, and then silenced immediately after that, then you can look around at your raid skirmish friends and see that they are most likely dead (this exact thing actually just happened to me last week). Guardians get tools to handle these situations reactively.

The long and the short of it is my raid skirm last Friday would have succeeded had we had a Guardian instead of me, A Warden. I don't like having that on my record. In the past I might even refute it. This time I was the one even making the case. And it's simply true.

If we are the most heavily impacted by these effects... what is wrong with giving us some crazy prevention mechanic?! I don't get it. Let me do my job well. Good Wardens should be gods. Just like good Guardians are gods. Good players are good ... at least they should be.

Originally Posted by Dradous

Are our leeches being looked at at all? EoB, Resolution and Fierce Resolve are in need of scaling as well.

It seems to me and please correct me if I am wrong, that finesse has a more direct impact on Wardens that any other tanking class. Is that something that will be getting reviewed as well?

Thanks for all your hard work and taking the time to address the issues of our class.

I'd also be curious if these are being tweaked too as the leaches are on the same scale as the HoTs and a bump in them would make a HUGE difference for our survivability, especially in multi-mob pulls.

Originally Posted by Hudson7

I'd also be curious if these are being tweaked too as the leaches are on the same scale as the HoTs and a bump in them would make a HUGE difference for our survivability, especially in multi-mob pulls.

Agreed. During the Moria days they were decent. But now-a-days when Warden's are pushing 13k Morale un-buffed... leaching 73 Morale a tick from a normal NPC isn't really that awesome.

Ive always been under the impression that wardens should be having HoTs AND avoidance up at all time, if they are skilled enought , and thus have an advantage over guardians!

Im looking forward for the changes, and hope you'll get it right! Would also love a way to increase duration of avoidance buffs, they dont need to be on the same timer, but atm some of them are a bit short.

Putting the HoTs as a % of max morale is a nice way to prevent nerfing of HoTs in the future as max morale always will be linked to incomming dmg.

PS: I posted 2 times about the HoT problem (in the feedback thread and a separate one) long before RoI and also send you a long mail about it, explaning the problem. You had to do either; change base value (= increase the strenght of the HoTs) or increase duration (as you suggested as well), but since you did neither, they was naturaly nerfed a lot.

Originally Posted by Solyaris

Ive always been under the impression that wardens should be having HoTs AND avoidance up at all time, if they are skilled enought , and thus have an advantage over guardians!

Im looking forward for the changes, and hope you'll get it right! Would also love a way to increase duration of avoidance buffs, they dont need to be on the same timer, but atm some of them are a bit short.

Putting the HoTs as a % of max morale is a nice way to prevent nerfing of HoTs in the future as max morale always will be linked to incomming dmg.

PS: I posted 2 times about the HoT problem (in the feedback thread and a separate one) long before RoI and also send you a long mail about it, explaning the problem. You had to do either; change base value (= increase the strenght of the HoTs) or increase duration (as you suggested as well), but since you did neither, they was naturaly nerfed a lot.

There's not enough time in a given timespan to maintain every single HoT and every single avoidance buff (and maintain aggro too for that matter).

In a magical time/place where we could somehow maintain every single HoT and buff gambit in our arsenal all the time and still hold aggro... we would still be at the mercy of the random number generator to ensure that we don't get two-shotted. The sole reason why avoidance tanks will never be desired over mitigation tanks (in large sample sets of course) is the random number generator, or RNG.