Thread: The polite and helpful orcs of Isengard -- SPOILERS

Warning, there will be spoilers. Stop Reading... if you don't want spoilers.

So, in the epic story you're kidnapped and taken to Isengard. Now, I don't know if I have Stockholm Syndrome or what, but I really value my continuing working relationship with these orcs -- they've been ever so polite and helpful.

They aren't making jokes at my expense, they're not worried about how quickly I work and when I'm done with a task they're in no hurry to give me any more work until I feel like it. For instance, one orc wanted me to haul buckets of weapons back and forth. He was satisfied with only a couple buckets hauled and then he left me alone. There was another prisoner laying on the ground there and the orc was saying he'd have to beat the guy because the prisoner couldn't work any more, because so much more work needed to be done (even though he didn't want to give me any more work). Well, since he hadn't given me any more work, I took up the prisoner's bucket and carried it for him. The main orc didn't care a bit and left us both alone afterward. Then I went on a little sightseeing expedition and nobody really cared.

The orcs have made a big show of "locking me up" but I actually carry the shackles around with me in my backpack. I mean, if you look at me it's pretty obvious that there aren't actually any shackles on my arms or legs. I think the orcs dislike Saruman as much as I do and wouldn't mind if I, you know, removed him from the picture.

The orcs haven't taken my armor, or my clothes, or weapons. In fact not only haven't they taken anything, nobody has even tried to take anything.

There have been a few surly orcs who've tried to act tough with me and smack me around, but since I still had my weapons I made short work of them and none of the other orcs cared -- even the really tough orcs, the ones who could pound me like a fly, didn't care at all.

The orcs here have actually been more polite and more helpful than the dwarves of Moria and the elves of Lothlorien & Mirkwood. I think we should recruit these orcs over to our side -- they seem to just want some good food, a place to sleep, and to otherwise be left alone.

Yeah, they were really helpful to me when I was delivering gruel to the prisoners. Honestly, the junk I was doing in prison was no different from what the free peoples have been making me do for years. It was a pretty sweet gig.

It's obvious, really. Their stereotypically brutal behaviour is really just a reflection of their treatment by their father figure, Saruman. Deep down, they really just want to be loved and accepted. The problem point has always been Saruman, and until his influence is erased Orcs will never really be able to come to terms with their anger and move on. And let's not get started on Saruman's personal problems. Let's just all get together in a circle and share our feelings. Let it all out. Don't be afraid. Together we can make a difference.

So, I've kept going through the epic quests and some orc gave me some trouble as I sprinkled some black powder around to blow up a machine. I bluffed him with "Hey, your boss thinks I'm amazing, you better shut up." He immediately got quiet. The quest then gave me the option to go speak with the boss and tell him what happened. Naturally wanting to see how this was all about to blow up in my face, I went to the boss and told him everything. He looked at me and said, I kid you not, he said, "I'll have someone go and take him out. Doesn't he know you work for me?" My jaw about dropped open.

Here I am, the one who was kidnapped precisely because I was telling everyone what an evil git Saruman is, and now the orcs, especially the boss orcs, are by-and-large bending over backwards to help me out and keep me safe. Hey, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. These are not evil orcs.

Would you *really* have preferred them to strip you from your gear and items, honestly? I think we would've seen a lot of complaints if they took control over your character that way. It was pretty necessary to do it as they did since you're given the possibility to leave the instance at any time.

Session play would've been a different matter. I personally love how they did that particular quest chain.

Not only the orcs are really nice, they also actually pay you for your efforts! Clearly the economy is not as bad down there as we might have thought.

funny thing is earlier someone had posted a thread about how aweful the whole captureing thing was. but I agree, as it is the captivity is way too NICE, Turbine feel free to make it a LITTLE more brutal. I understand you can;t be TOO nasty but...

At least they don't threaten to kill you like those supposedly friendly elves in Lothlorien (ugh, I disliked that area so much, not feeling welcome is bad).

Being able to wander around with all your gear was silly.

I can see it would be difficult to handle otherwise as we can pop in our out as we see fit.

This area really should have been done as multiple instances with us having to scavage ourselves gear or find scrolls to boost the prison gear or whatever and 'liberate' our own stuff for the final showdown.

I even ran away from the first orc attacking me for being out of place, thinking: i am a prisoner, i wont be able to defend myself.. then i realized i had all my stuff on me, and put him back in place

What I would have done in turbine's place:
some kind of session play, with the player being clearly garbed a prisoner in that outfit you get later on as quest rewards, for the first quests shackled til you earned the trust of your overseer.
so that way you really have nothing in your inventory, and your regular skills regardless of class could be exchanged for other simple attacks.

The rats you are supposed to kill could be changed to less powerful versions, defeatable by kicking and punching with your shackles.
The orcs attacking you when you come to close to them could simply give you a hit with some morale damage, nothing more.
The Item XP you gain as reward could be handed out in form of a IXP-Rune after completing all of it.
I actually would have needed a reforge in between and didnt dare to map out, not knowing how i would get back in..

I highly prefer the area as it is. Myself a number of roleplayers use it for RP purposes, neglecting to complete the questline, and it's a lot of fun.

I believe we should start a petition among the free peoples of Middle-earth to ditch the arrogant and passive-aggressive Elves and recruit those honorable and caring Orcs.

Originally Posted by Robhob

It's obvious, really. Their stereotypically brutal behaviour is really just a reflection of their treatment by their father figure, Saruman. Deep down, they really just want to be loved and accepted. The problem point has always been Saruman, and until his influence is erased Orcs will never really be able to come to terms with their anger and move on. And let's not get started on Saruman's personal problems. Let's just all get together in a circle and share our feelings. Let it all out. Don't be afraid. Together we can make a difference.

You made my morning, thanks.

Originally Posted by Rapunzel666

I even ran away from the first orc attacking me for being out of place, thinking: i am a prisoner, i wont be able to defend myself.. then i realized i had all my stuff on me, and put him back in place

What I would have done in turbine's place:
some kind of session play, with the player being clearly garbed a prisoner in that outfit you get later on as quest rewards, for the first quests shackled til you earned the trust of your overseer.
so that way you really have nothing in your inventory, and your regular skills regardless of class could be exchanged for other simple attacks.

The rats you are supposed to kill could be changed to less powerful versions, defeatable by kicking and punching with your shackles.
The orcs attacking you when you come to close to them could simply give you a hit with some morale damage, nothing more.
The Item XP you gain as reward could be handed out in form of a IXP-Rune after completing all of it.
I actually would have needed a reforge in between and didnt dare to map out, not knowing how i would get back in..

It's obviously rushed, imagine how much fun stuff you could add into the Saruman / resist phase.....different emotes, etc ..real choices...

But well you have to take it for what it's worth. Some players actually unequipped their weapons and changed appearance to "raggs". I didn't but i realized i was supposed to be unarmed in there and surrounded by 10.000 orks not just 20.

The whole getting arrested and dragged into Isengard has been rather....strange. Seriously...4 Wildmen "capture" me when i can HiPS in front of two CREEP RAIDS?

Still it's mockery to see, that that main Uruk really did care and understand how loyalty does work out. Sadly i was also deprived from paying him back in kind. I would so have loved to spare him as a choice rather than the forced script with the rushed video in the end.


He will be missed. I would have followed him to raid Edoras to Minas Tirith.
Now back to mundane boar butchering tasks for the villages of Rohan and *sight* Rangers...

But this perfectly shows why the dark side is tempting :P

Originally Posted by Rapunzel666

The rats you are supposed to kill could be changed to less powerful versions, defeatable by kicking and punching with your shackles.

That reminded me of sacred 2. There are herds of rats (is there a name for a rat herd?) mixed in with undead and brigands roaming the whole map. Since the rats leveled with you, you eventually had level 100 epic rat herds coming after you.

I am looking forward to reaching this place, I always thought that under that knobbly, brutal exterior, orcs were kind people at heart. The same cannot be said of dwarves and elves who are constantly complaining and telling you you can't go places (and I'm sick of the Moria ones telling me I'm "not equipped for this place" when plainly I am).

Don't you worry. The dunlending will keep reminding you too of how ill equipped you are to venture around.

Heartwarming isn't it`?

I thought this was the most brilliant content space to date. The size and ambiance of that place was amazing. If you read the text, there were threats and insults riddled throughout the dialogues. Even orcs know how to take advantage of status and the one that advances you is obviously worried about advancing himself as a result. You are making him look good and he is taking advantage of that.

Sure, I think you can ignore some things and feel like its a vacation, but I rather think they nailed it. It would have been too long to make an instance and even though I did it all in one sitting, its the most fun I've had in game in a long time. I'm still unhappy I got the sleeveless shirt. I loved the ones the other prisoners were wearing. My guns are now cold

I'm hopeful this place becomes a skirmish or instance at some point as I'm ready to go back.

Originally Posted by Ofelie

Would you *really* have preferred them to strip you from your gear and items, honestly? I think we would've seen a lot of complaints if they took control over your character that way.

I actually bug reported that. I had no problem dispatching 2 Dunlendings and there were only, what, 10 or so standing there? The cave is already instanced. I said we should have had a whole bunch of NPCs attack us at once, possibly in progressively larger waves until we're "killed" (knocked unconscious) and then we wake up in Isengard. I felt that the "we stand here staring at you and then you just passively give up and let us deliver you to the headquarters of the Enemy because you don't want to be 'reckless'" was just incredibly foolish.

Let me use real life statistics for a moment. If anyone ever stops and threatens you with a gun and you fight back, you have a roughly 50% chance of dying. If anyone ever takes you anywhere at gunpoint, you have an over 80% chance of dying (as well as other things happening to you which I won't get into). So, if anyone threatens you with a gun, you should always just do what they say and not fight back, unless they try to kidnap you or take you anywhere, in which case you absolutely should fight or you'll face an even higher chance of death (or worse),

Getting back into the game, I don't care how "reckless" we're trying to avoid being, if someone is trying to kidnap me and deliver me and a Ranger to the Enemy (Saruman), well, I've seen Gandalf and this is Gandalf's boss. Being delivered into his direct control/power will markedly increase my chances of death (or worse). I would absolutely fight to the death to avoid being kidnapped and taken to Saruman.

Ok, having digressed on that little rant of how I feel it's poor writing to have railroaded us into being prisoners in the first place, let me give the conclusion of what happened at the end after I blew up the machine and led a mass prisoner exodus. Well, I freed everyone, at least, I then left them back in the dungeons where the Ranger warned them not to follow us in our escape until enough minutes had passed that the orcs would be completely aware of what had happened and would be armed. I was rather shocked by that as there weren't more than 10 or so (maybe 15) prisoners and even if we would attract more attention as a group surely they would stand a better chance of getting away if they came with us then instead of waiting until the orcs were alerted.

As we were getting away, the head boss orc smelled something fishy and I ended up having to fight him, but he didn't die -- I was ripping him apart like a dog on yesterday's fish when he suddenly went green and unattackable. I wonder if the orcs ever complain about us like that. "I was ripping that human apart and suddenly he went green and unattackable and ran off. I've heard them talking about that, they call it 'releasing'. He came back later on and was more powerful, he just ripped Joe apart like he was made out of twine."

The orc that was in charge of the kitchen was kind of a pain, but the other orcs were just nice polite, friendly people (which I shall call them, since they were respectful enough to be called people).

Originally Posted by Ellye

I believe we should start a petition among the free peoples of Middle-earth to ditch the arrogant and passive-aggressive Elves and recruit those honorable and caring Orcs.

You made my morning, thanks.

Seconded, ROFL! Those Elves in Lorien DO one-shot you, THAT never happened underneath Isengard!

My favorites were the orcs giving directions. "You looking for the dungeons? They're to the north!" I half expected them to invite me for a drink, maybe a fluffy bathrobe, before going on my way.

Head North, maggot breath! Your mani-pedi is waiting! No dawdling! You, there, in the back, we need more bunny slippers in the sauna. MOVE!