Thread: Defiler Enhanced Blight skill OP? Working as Intended? Dev response?

Originally Posted by witchking782

Single person vs having 3 ppl working together on same target and the deadliest one of burg is only single target not AOE. And creeps can do -100% as well with worg maul.

Exactly: advantages vs disadvantages. At least we're in agreement that each side can get -100% incoming healing.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

Instead of thinking about it as "QQ", have you even stopped for a moment and realized I've stated my opinion and been constructive about why I think my opinion is valid?

The only pathetic thing I've seen thus far in this thread is the non-constructive immature comments such as the one you just posted.

So instead of replying to my constructive criticism, you choose to reply to my non-constructive statement. I don't see how that helps you make your point.

Originally Posted by HaldamirTinuviel

Can be traited fellowship wide and have CD lowered to 5 seconds? Now that is spammable and an effective counter.

That is IF, and it's a very large IF, every freep group contains one LM per fellowship. Even then the effectiveness of having 4 LM's per raid can still be questioned.

Originally Posted by Magi

There is nothing about the blight skill that makes it more powerful than the numerous other skills that exist in the game. This skill gives a class that could never really do anything offensive on its own a method of actually being useful.

IMO, EVERYTHING about this skill is more powerful than any other skill on either side that it could be compared to and I've detailed each one in this thread.

Originally Posted by Magi

Over the years creeps have had to constantly deal with ever increasingly powerful freep items, equipment and skills in each book. Creep players adapted to changes like tar and came up with new tactics and strategies for fighting.

And with the same point in mind, do you not agree that freeps have had to deal with increasing strength of creeps as well or are you saying that creeps have never changed in strength from the beginning?

Originally Posted by Magi

Before RoI creeps really didn't have any area of effect skills that were of concern to freeps. Now creeps have some options and freeps will need to adapt. It is a sad commentary when the creeps have to spoon feed the freeps tactics on how to deal with this skill. Freeps will now have to do more than be a mindless zerg ball mowing down their opponents.

Adaptation is always a large part of the moors. It is and always has been a revolving door of adaptation. This isn't any different, excpet that the skill, again imo, is over the top.

Originally Posted by Magi

These changes will make PvMP more interesting as long as the devs don't cave in to the incessant whining of some freeps who don't want to use their brains in PvP.

I honestly find this comment to be unecassary but that is your opinion, as harsh as it may be and you are entitled to it. However, I find the comment to not only to be untrue (yes I'm saying freeps have brains too), but completely off base in a thread about any one skill being OP or not OP.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

So instead of replying to my constructive criticism, you choose to reply to my non-constructive statement. I don't see how that helps you make your point.

Forgive me but as you can see I've had a lot to respond to in this thread already. To me, regardless of the issue at hand, the responses shouldn't be of such immature nature such as the one I quoted. Some have replied with constructive disagreements with my feelings here and I genuinely hope that the essence of the thread can remain constructive, regardless of the outcome.

This is a very powerful skill. It breaks up freep balls and causes freeps to really think

Learn how to avoid it and get used to the ball strategy no longer being effective

Absolutely no reason for a nerf other than freeps refusing to adapt to a strong skill

Originally Posted by ysnpwhite

Fix the whole traited/not traited issue. Then, lower the range to 15m or make it land right around the defiler. Increase the CD to 2min untraited, 1min traited duration is 30s both ways. That should be enough imo. It's the creep version of hopeful heart.

I don't want the skill to go away, it's too cool and makes people think. But as is I think it's too powerful for it's availability.

moarwordss

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

Forgive me but as you can see I've had a lot to respond to in this thread already. To me, regardless of the issue at hand, the responses shouldn't be of such immature nature such as the one I quoted. Some have replied with constructive disagreements with my feelings here and I genuinely hope that the essence of the thread can remain constructive, regardless of the outcome.

As someone who reads a lot more than posts, I would say if you don't want immature responses to threads, then don't make immature threads in the first place.

You invited yourself to these posts simply by titling your post as you did. Of course, you know this already because you are super-leeky of the wood, super duper Freep guy from Landy.

And "Creeps are OPd" rage threads went out in '09 TBH.

Learn to Play (that's not immature btw, it's advice)

If everyone has at least 1-2 obscenely overpowered things, then they're mostly happy. While I pray to...something...that every Defiler and his mother won't have this, I know they probably will.

Oh well, just an obstacle. Not an immovable force.

This really isn't that hard of a skill to counter. You just walk off of it. Sure, if the creeps are coordinated you might lose a person or two, but the more infamy/renown flowing the more fun it is for both sides.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

IMO, EVERYTHING about this skill is more powerful than any other skill on either side that it could be compared to and I've detailed each one in this thread.

Wrong.

Creeps need all the dps they can get to kill a single target otherwise the freep heals are just too great to compete with. And they dont have much for aoe dps meaning only 1 target is going be dying at a time. The freep they focus just needs to move out of the puddle and the -incoming healing effect is gone. It don't matter if other targets stand in it when not focused.

Freeps on the other hand... the target they're focusing has no way to actually remove the incoming healing effects on them which plays to the freeps advantage. Creeps are stuck with the -incoming healing effect until duration expires no matter where they move. Freeps can move 2 steps and be free of the negative healing effects (minus the warg bloody maul). Therefore, the target being focused (which is the only target that really matters) plays to freepside's advantage since they can more easily move out of the negative effects, where creeps cannot.

I've been out on freepside where 4/15 creeps are defilers all with Blight and only one of them being rank 10. It hasn't been much of an issue because healing on freepside isn't an issue. Just don't stand in the puddle if you are being focused. They're more annoying than anything. The biggest factor to overcome is HoT stacking from that many defilers. It's doable to overcome but way more of a challenge than blight poses.

Leekae:

FYI when ROI went live on the list of *known issues* was the blight graphic not matching the actual footprint of the skill.

Is it a very powerful skill? Yes, it is a game changer for defilers, and will require freeps to rethink some things.

Just a note, assuming your original post was in regards to Sunday night, while you might have been ranting about defilers: Defilers were ranting about being 1 shotted from stealth.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

Wrong.

Creeps need all the dps they can get to kill a single target otherwise the freep heals are just too great to compete with. And they dont have much for aoe dps meaning only 1 target is going be dying at a time. The freep they focus just needs to move out of the puddle and the -incoming healing effect is gone. It don't matter if other targets stand in it when not focused.

Freeps on the other hand... the target they're focusing has no way to actually remove the incoming healing effects on them which plays to the freeps advantage. Creeps are stuck with the -incoming healing effect until duration expires no matter where they move. Freeps can move 2 steps and be free of the negative healing effects (minus the warg bloody maul). Therefore, the target being focused (which is the only target that really matters) plays to freepside's advantage since they can more easily move out of the negative effects, where creeps cannot.

I've been out on freepside where 4/15 creeps are defilers all with Blight and only one of them being rank 10. It hasn't been much of an issue because healing on freepside isn't an issue. Just don't stand in the puddle if you are being focused. They're more annoying than anything. The biggest factor to overcome is HoT stacking from that many defilers. It's doable to overcome but way more of a challenge than blight poses.

Again, I disagree. There are instances where moving out of the puddle simply isn't possible. For instance during a keep take or any other confined area. It would be one thing to walk out of one puddle but walking out of an area that is completely covered by blight pools is something else entirely and that's what I forsee as happening quite often.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

Again, I disagree. There are instances where moving out of the puddle simply isn't possible. For instance during a keep take or any other confined area. It would be one thing to walk out of one puddle but walking out of an area that is completely covered by blight pools is something else entirely and that's what I forsee as happening quite often.

Pro tips to help your raid not die to blight in a keep:

1. DON'T STOP on the middle floor, it is a death trap. Don't stop on the stairs at all. Pull these NPCs out of the stairway into the main room, or up stairs in the main room.

2. Push the creeps out of the keep before attempting the Tyrant if possible. Yes, I know in books past you could simply kill the CG WHILE fighting a creep raid. This is not as easy/feasible now. Push the creeps out before pulling the Tyrant!

3. Once you are in the tyrant room, understand how positioning works! For instance, if a defiler targets you with the blight, the CENTER of the skill lands under his target. So.... if you are all RIGHT up against the wall/corner... HALF or more of the entire puddle is actually outside of the room! Use this to your advantage! Use discipline. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND YOU!

4. If a defiler uses blight on your raid... MOVE! The DoT effect from blight is tiny (ticks for 700 total damage against heavy armor over 20 seconds... omg the horror!) Have a plan. Tell your raid in advance "if we get a blight pool, we are moving to x corner". This is what creeps already MUST do to deal with tar/sticky tar. OMIGOSH! TACTICS!

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

Again, I disagree. There are instances where moving out of the puddle simply isn't possible. For instance during a keep take or any other confined area. It would be one thing to walk out of one puddle but walking out of an area that is completely covered by blight pools is something else entirely and that's what I forsee as happening quite often.

I've also seen instances where freeps aoe ball at the center stair in TR and there is nothing creeps can do about it (Prior to ROI). Any creeps that enter that middle stairwell is blendered in seconds and with the insane healing from minstrels/RKs/captains nothing would die while captains and LMs keep the whole group/raid topped up with power to survive indefinately if necessary (usually until tyrant is dead). You didn't see a problem with how powerful that is?

There will be many puddles laid down in keeps, but I forsee ways to combat that varying on which keep it's at.

@Stickeez ^^ go away darnit! This is the second time you ninja'd in before me.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

Pro tips to help your raid not die to blight in a keep:

1. DON'T STOP on the middle floor, it is a death trap. Don't stop on the stairs at all. Pull these NPCs out of the stairway into the main room, or up stairs in the main room.

2. Push the creeps out of the keep before attempting the Tyrant if possible. Yes, I know in books past you could simply kill the CG WHILE fighting a creep raid. This is not as easy/feasible now. Push the creeps out before pulling the Tyrant!

3. Once you are in the tyrant room, understand how positioning works! For instance, if a defiler targets you with the blight, the CENTER of the skill lands under his target. So.... if you are all RIGHT up against the wall/corner... HALF or more of the entire puddle is actually outside of the room! Use this to your advantage! Use discipline. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND YOU!

4. If a defiler uses blight on your raid... MOVE! The DoT effect from blight is tiny (ticks for 700 total damage against heavy armor over 20 seconds... omg the horror!) Have a plan. Tell your raid in advance "if we get a blight pool, we are moving to x corner". This is what creeps already MUST do to deal with tar/sticky tar. OMIGOSH! TACTICS!

Thanks for the "pro-tips", I just joined these forums 23 seconds ago. Really. I probably could say this 47 more times in additon to the 47 times I've already said it in this thread alone but I'll say it one more time. It's one thing to move out of one pool but another to move out of ten of them. You see, the c/d for the skill is shorter than the skill's duration. At this point I think I've presented my case pretty well in this thread and it really doesn't matter how many creeps disagree with me. The facts are the facts and I presented them here in a constructive fashion. I rest my case.

Poor lore-masters never getting a break from spam curing.

Originally Posted by Vrtues

Poor lore-masters never getting a break from spam curing.

And Stun Immune'ing!

And hurling improved sticky gord.

My thinks a freep just found out what it feels like to fight againt LM's in tight spaces and dosen't like it.

I mean seriously there is plenty of space in the tyrant rooms to just shuffle about and blight can't be place in a spot where you arn't already standing.

The acid dot is small

The whole skill is curable....If freeps could just be convinced to play their roll instead of solo god moding.

BTW taking the Tryant to mid stairs will prolly still work because with freep AOE I doubt a defiler will get a 2.5 induction off.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

Pro tips to help your raid not die to blight in a keep:

1. DON'T STOP on the middle floor, it is a death trap. Don't stop on the stairs at all. Pull these NPCs out of the stairway into the main room, or up stairs in the main room.

2. Push the creeps out of the keep before attempting the Tyrant if possible. Yes, I know in books past you could simply kill the CG WHILE fighting a creep raid. This is not as easy/feasible now. Push the creeps out before pulling the Tyrant!

3. Once you are in the tyrant room, understand how positioning works! For instance, if a defiler targets you with the blight, the CENTER of the skill lands under his target. So.... if you are all RIGHT up against the wall/corner... HALF or more of the entire puddle is actually outside of the room! Use this to your advantage! Use discipline. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND YOU!

4. If a defiler uses blight on your raid... MOVE! The DoT effect from blight is tiny (ticks for 700 total damage against heavy armor over 20 seconds... omg the horror!) Have a plan. Tell your raid in advance "if we get a blight pool, we are moving to x corner". This is what creeps already MUST do to deal with tar/sticky tar. OMIGOSH! TACTICS!

Pro-Tip. Get LM's to trait disease removal. Effects nullified, ability to relocate = safe.

But by the sound of ur 'pro-tips' you are talking about a creep raid with 1 defiler. Multiple defilers with 30s/30s blight will get the raid killed just by moving around the whole time.

If the freeps are going to find a way to beat the blight, they will have to find a way to increase the mini's outgoing healing to counter it.

Originally Posted by SnakeShaker

QQ more, pls.

It's still a long way to reach your level.

Originally Posted by SnakeShaker

Just mark/tooltip every defiler and keep interrupting them (burglar +75%, lm +50%). It's easy as 1,2,3 or keeping every single mini in combat to avoid an AOE OOC rez.

Adapt & l2p.

BTW, you still here?...
Checked there?

ADAPT!

less qq more pew pew okie freeps(aka bunch of whinny lil *******)?

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

Thanks for the "pro-tips", I just joined these forums 23 seconds ago. Really. I probably could say this 47 more times in additon to the 47 times I've already said it in this thread alone but I'll say it one more time. It's one thing to move out of one pool but another to move out of ten of them. You see, the c/d for the skill is shorter than the skill's duration. At this point I think I've presented my case pretty well in this thread and it really doesn't matter how many creeps disagree with me. The facts are the facts and I presented them here in a constructive fashion. I rest my case.

Ummmm...you do know that one defiler can't put down multiple blights, yes? Regardless of the duration, once a defiler puts down blight the old one dissapears.

Additionally, I find most of your concerns to be a case of exaggeration syndrome. Powerful skill? Yes, very. Most powerful skill in the moors? Debatable. Makes the creeps more overpowered than freeps? I hardly think so.

Just look to the Loremaster class, they have several of these skills that are big, powerful, AOE, Raid Stomping skills that creeps have had to deal with forever.

Sticky Tar (HUGE Aoe Slow)
March of the Ents (Big damage AND Aoe Stun)
Sticky Gourd (Big AOE Damage)

Then there's the AOE root and AOE stun. You get multiple loremasters together and you have a recipe for stomping the brains out of creeps. It's the same with the defiler, alone...not really that bad. Many, it gets worse.

So, if my post was not constructive enough, I end with this.

While your concerns, I'm sure, seem valid to you, it's probably because you have freep goggles on. At the very least, wait until there's regular raid v raid action to get a proper hypothesis about the skill, instead of crying OP when you came out undergeared, outmanned, and unprepared, believing that you should be curb stomping creeps before you've had to put in all the PVE effort like you should.

Originally Posted by Packalpha

Ummmm...you do know that one defiler can't put down multiple blights, yes? Regardless of the duration, once a defiler puts down blight the old one dissapears.

Additionally, I find most of your concerns to be a case of exaggeration syndrome. Powerful skill? Yes, very. Most powerful skill in the moors? Debatable. Makes the creeps more overpowered than freeps? I hardly think so.

The old blight only disappears AFTER the 45 sec is done, not if the 2nd puddle is placed. So yes, the defiler can place two puddles for the 15 sec where duration is longer than cooldown.

Btw the original rank 13 skill had 10 MINUTES of cooldown, not sure why they thought its fair to bring that all the way down to 30 secs.

Blight didn't help us defend TA today.

We died so fast it didn't matter.

Originally Posted by witchking782

Btw the original rank 13 skill had 10 MINUTES of cooldown, not sure why they thought its fair to bring that all the way down to 30 secs.

Ummm... don't get me talking about ALL the freep skills that got major CD cuts... just look at minis/champs/LM/ect.

Oh, and sry that you'll have to think of some new tactic (:O)... I know it'll be hard after all these years of doing the same thing...

Originally Posted by defrule

Blight didn't help us defend TA today.

We died so fast it didn't matter.

I was able to kill every worm in the bottom room yesterday with 2 blights.

Just squish and run, squish and run. Run them over the puddle the entire time and they always have 3 dots on them.

We can pwn worms in the DoF, so we got that goin for us.

Ummm....I might also add that Defilers are insanely hard to bring down in comparison to Lm's, but that's another debate entirely.

Freep goggles, creep goggles, I've played them both extensively. I even played WITH some of the creeps who are insinuating I'm some lowbie noob who doesn't know what he's talking about less than two weeks ago. I've been around the block once or twice myself.

Now, having seen what I've seen and been a part of and experienced I think my opinion should hold just a teensy bit of weight. These last few comments may seem pompus on my part, but the fact is, it's just the truth. People can line up and label me as conceited and arrogant if they choose to but that isn't going to change the fact that I have a very strong opinion about what this skill can and most likely will do to pvmp going forward.

These are my personal opinions of the situation and that, along with defending myself, is something I'm very much entitled to do. If I didn't feel my experience and knowledge of lotro was being questioned in this thread I wouldn't even mention these facts. Then again should I be ashamed of having been here this long?

Some of you say "learn new tactics" when you have no idea what sort of tactics I actually use. Forgive me, but I'm not every freep leader on every server balled up into one person.

Regardless, this thread isn't about me and trying to draw attention to myself. It's about a skill that I see as far too powerful to be in the hands of any one player. It's really just that simple.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

Ummm....I might also add that Defilers are insanely hard to bring down in comparison to Lm's, but that's another debate entirely.

Freep goggles, creep goggles, I've played them both extensively. I even played WITH some of the creeps who are insinuating I'm some lowbie noob who doesn't know what he's talking about less than two weeks ago. I've been around the block once or twice myself.

Now, having seen what I've seen and been a part of and experienced I think my opinion should hold just a teensy bit of weight. These last few comments may seem pompus on my part, but the fact is, it's just the truth. People can line up and label me as conceited and arrogant if they choose to but that isn't going to change the fact that I have a very strong opinion about what this skill can and most likely will do to pvmp going forward.

These are my personal opinions of the situation and that, along with defending myself, is something I'm very much entitled to do. If I didn't feel my experience and knowledge of lotro was being questioned in this thread I wouldn't even mention these facts. Then again should I be ashamed of having been here this long?

Some of you say "learn new tactics" when you have no idea what sort of tactics I actually use. Forgive me, but I'm not every freep leader on every server balled up into one person.

Regardless, this thread isn't about me and trying to draw attention to myself. It's about a skill that I see as far too powerful to be in the hands of any one player. It's really just that simple.

Bubbles are too powerful in the hands of one player. Champions need a nerf badly.

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

Ummm... don't get me talking about ALL the freep skills that got major CD cuts...

No freep skill got cut that much. It's now 5% of what it's CD used to be. How would it be if FH was on a 1min CD? That would be 5% of it's previous CD. Had it been cut in half like many freep skills I don't think there would have been a problem.

Also,

Originally Posted by ysnpwhite

Fix the whole traited/not traited issue. Then, lower the range to 15m or make it land right around the defiler. Increase the CD to 2min untraited, 1min traited duration is 30s both ways. That should be enough imo. It's the creep version of hopeful heart.

I don't want the skill to go away, it's too cool and makes people think. But as is I think it's too powerful for it's availability.

Originally Posted by defrule

Bubbles are too powerful in the hands of one player. Champions need a nerf badly.

AGREED!

lol noob champ forgot to mention how harmless his godmode bubble is in the hands of one player

Originally Posted by defrule

Bubbles are too powerful in the hands of one player. Champions need a nerf badly.

Originally Posted by Krishal

AGREED!

lol noob champ forgot to mention how harmless his godmode bubble is in the hands of one player

If either of you played a champ, you would know the bubbles don't work some of the time to begin with. Btw Defrule, we don't need your font to be 54pt to see what you or typing nor does it need to be red.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

If either of you played a champ, you would know the bubbles don't work some of the time to begin with. Btw Defrule, we don't need your font to be 54pt to see what you or typing nor does it need to be red.

Except I'm not the one that typed that big red thing.

Wait until my mini gets -75% incoming healing song of soothing, then we will see who is op.

I think the real problem highlighted in this thread is this. A freep is saying" If we are taking a keep and defilers use blight we won't be able to win".

Creeps say "move about and use your classes that cure disease to....I don't know cure disease?" problem solved.

Freeps say "but what if we don't have the correct group make up? We will simply have no chance to win."

And to that I say " and your problem is what exactly?"

Freeps level up and improve in an environment where, to be honest, they are supposed to be challenged but ultimately win in the end.

The Etten Moors has largely been that way too. Freep leaders worked out long ago if we use this tactic (freep ball especially in keep takes) we win. Even against superior numbers of creeps.

Now flip it around. Creeps level up and improve in an environment where they start off quite weak die plenty and a win for them is any time they see the yellow bar move. Creeps have always gone into fights they know they can't win but they go in anyway because they might progress that yellow bar just a little more.

Now with this skill and others such as the spider pet, when it works properly, sometimes Freeps simply will not have the numbers, correct group make up, or correct tactic to "win" fights they once did.

Ok it's been a little while since I PvE'ed so forgive my old reference here.

I played a champion. When my kin ran the watcher I needed to trait the Ten target AOE (blade storm?) to do my job and play my part in what was a complex dance that could turn to c r a p in seconds if someone messed up. that is the essence of LOTRO PvE.

If your a Freep leader and you know you don't have the right team to take a defended keep (PvE in the Moors) then don't go there. You wouldn't expect to beat an instance with out the correct team traited correctly.

I couldn't count the number of times I have lead/been in groups where we have to say "forget this keep we simply don't have the; range, or the healing, or the numbers" or a combination of any of these. I also couldn't count the number of times I have tried to defend a keep against smaller numbers and still lost because we can't out DPS Freep healing.

So if you're looking to PvP in the Moors not PvE you can go where ever you like. I promise the Creeps will come looking for you.

Pick a spot with your ranged and healers on a rock that is hard to climb ( not impossible to climb without a mount because that would be cheap right?). Tar the run up and nuke the reavers and wargs who try to get up there. Even if a defiler can get in close enough and can get a blight up there the -75 healing means little if your healers and superior ranged DPS are taking only creep ranged damage (something in my experience creep raids are usually short on).

Lastly I'll say this, in RvR fights the defilers will be hard pressed just doing their main function, healing and will be low on power after about 1 minute of sustained healing. So if they don't get blight down at the start they prolly won't.

Open feild fights will be different and new and that will be a good thing.

Sometimes the freeps will have a hard time flipping a keep and sometimes they will fail. I realise it will require a change in the way freeps think about PvE but that isn't anyone else's fault but the freeps they will just need to extend their ideas about PvE and apply them to PvE in the Moors now too.

Originally Posted by ksjock

Stuff...

Well put, +1

Originally Posted by ksjock

I think the real problem highlighted in this thread is this. A freep is saying" If we are taking a keep and defilers use blight we won't be able to win".

Creeps say "move about and use your classes that cure disease to....I don't know cure disease?" problem solved.

Freeps say "but what if we don't have the correct group make up? We will simply have no chance to win."

And to that I say " and your problem is what exactly?"

Freeps level up and improve in an environment where, to be honest, they are supposed to be challenged but ultimately win in the end.

The Etten Moors has largely been that way too. Freep leaders worked out long ago if we use this tactic (freep ball especially in keep takes) we win. Even against superior numbers of creeps.

Now flip it around. Creeps level up and improve in an environment where they start off quite weak die plenty and a win for them is any time they see the yellow bar move. Creeps have always gone into fights they know they can't win but they go in anyway because they might progress that yellow bar just a little more.

Now with this skill and others such as the spider pet, when it works properly, sometimes Freeps simply will not have the numbers, correct group make up, or correct tactic to "win" fights they once did.

Ok it's been a little while since I PvE'ed so forgive my old reference here.

I played a champion. When my kin ran the watcher I needed to trait the Ten target AOE (blade storm?) to do my job and play my part in what was a complex dance that could turn to c r a p in seconds if someone messed up. that is the essence of LOTRO PvE.

If your a Freep leader and you know you don't have the right team to take a defended keep (PvE in the Moors) then don't go there. You wouldn't expect to beat an instance with out the correct team traited correctly.

I couldn't count the number of times I have lead/been in groups where we have to say "forget this keep we simply don't have the; range, or the healing, or the numbers" or a combination of any of these. I also couldn't count the number of times I have tried to defend a keep against smaller numbers and still lost because we can't out DPS Freep healing.

So if you're looking to PvP in the Moors not PvE you can go where ever you like. I promise the Creeps will come looking for you.

Pick a spot with your ranged and healers on a rock that is hard to climb ( not impossible to climb without a mount because that would be cheap right?). Tar the run up and nuke the reavers and wargs who try to get up there. Even if a defiler can get in close enough and can get a blight up there the -75 healing means little if your healers and superior ranged DPS are taking only creep ranged damage (something in my experience creep raids are usually short on).

Lastly I'll say this, in RvR fights the defilers will be hard pressed just doing their main function, healing and will be low on power after about 1 minute of sustained healing. So if they don't get blight down at the start they prolly won't.

Open feild fights will be different and new and that will be a good thing.

Sometimes the freeps will have a hard time flipping a keep and sometimes they will fail. I realise it will require a change in the way freeps think about PvE but that isn't anyone else's fault but the freeps they will just need to extend their ideas about PvE and apply them to PvE in the Moors now too.

It seems as though you've taken some of my thoughts, condensed them and made them into a concotion of "here's how you counter x,y and z" type arguments. Sure, I gave examples of WHY I thought the skill is badly OP, but in general I feel no one toon should have the abilty to posess such a powerful skill.

Lets be real here, it's possible for a new f2p creep to walk into the moors and after 30 seconds or so of the toon being created, that toon can have an entire raid of freeps running around like "chickens with their heads cut off" for the cost of one hours worth of minimum wage worker's earnings, after taxes. Does that make much sense to you?

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

If either of you played a champ, you would know the bubbles don't work some of the time to begin with. Btw Defrule, we don't need your font to be 54pt to see what you or typing nor does it need to be red.

At the risk of getting slightly off-topic, when don't our bubbles work?

I can only think of two situations:

1) We're not in a stance (and I have no idea why we wouldn't be in a stance, so that'd be user error);
2) We get stunned as we're trying to use the bubble, putting it on cooldown and losing the Fervour pips - but this already happens with other skills (Raging Blades) and to other classes, so I don't think that it's a problem. Annoying, but not a new issue.

Am I missing something?

I believe the op is saying we need more defilers out here.

Blight is the best skill in the game.

Originally Posted by CroutonCabbage

Blight is the best skill in the game.

True.

Yet in order to make a skill imba you need players that are imba too, meaning you need players that actually know how to use it in the best way.
In a 20 vs 11 fight yesterday, there were three defilers with this skill equipped ranking from 6-10, i was targetted twice with the blght skill while not being targetted by any creeps for the whole duration I needed to move out and standing 20m away from the action. One was laid down into the WL where a burglar was attacking the healers. Then another one was put down under a minstrel who was, again, standing 20m away from any action an not being targeted. In the hand of simple minds this skill is just as useless as the players are.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

It seems as though you've taken some of my thoughts, condensed them and made them into a concotion of "here's how you counter x,y and z" type arguments. Sure, I gave examples of WHY I thought the skill is badly OP, but in general I feel no one toon should have the abilty to posess such a powerful skill.

Lets be real here, it's possible for a new f2p creep to walk into the moors and after 30 seconds or so of the toon being created, that toon can have an entire raid of freeps running around like "chickens with their heads cut off" for the cost of one hours worth of minimum wage worker's earnings, after taxes. Does that make much sense to you?

Well now you are talking about something completely different. You are talking about pay to win and asking "has a player earned the right to possess a powerful skill?"

The answer to that question is always going to be subjective. I'll agree it is bad when you die to someone that you, for whatever reason, think didn't earned their win.

I spoke about it in a different thread ages ago with that Oglotron (?) fella who liked to complain about the amount of effort it took to roll a creep for any situation in the Moors. ( http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t=#post5196579 ) there it is for reference if you like? Please ignore the low moral on my RK too, I logged on to take that SS and all of the relics had been removed from my LI's I think his moral was usually ~5k at the time.

My total /played time on my RK, with SM jeweller and cook and almost all my virtues grinded was just a smidgen over 2 weeks. This was when the level cap was 60. Anyway my RK was hitting 3.5K EC's and wrecking high ranked creeps with much more time invested in their toons and to me it felt very cheap. I got the rank 4 quick map and have never played it in the Moors again.

I don't intend to start up an old argument but I, like many other creeps, get slaughtered every day by freeps that have less time invested into their toon than us. Freeps have so many extremely powerful one hit OMFG skills that require no talent to pull off, just a lucky roll of the dice in many cases, that I'm not ready to care about Defilers getting a powerful skill too. Especially when it is easily avoidable, potable and curable. This skill doesn't just pop up from nowhere and BAM you're dead like so many Freep skills do.

I can think of plenty of skills that are plenty powerful and Creeps don't have access to many of them. The two most powerful Creep skills, IMO, are also gated meaning Dev strike and Revenge require the target to be below 1/2 health.

For me the worst is fighting burgs on my spider...They are long fights and my pots, that have a 2min CD, are used early in the fight. I'm kiting and doing well, burg almost dead and I have 1/2 my moral still. Then when my 45 DR is gone and everything is still on CD (or I miss seeing the trick on me and don't pot it) I get an 8 second stun ,startling twist, and never come out of it. To me that just seems wrong but any burg will say use your pot right and we are toast and they are right. It is great fun to see a burg run about "lost" in a fight because you potted a trick and stuffed up their skill rotation.

Also your brand new defiler even if it brought everything it could possible buy will still die like a rank zero squishy creep. In the other blight complaint thread there is a champ who doesn’t like low ranked creeps having good skills too, but you know what he still won the fight he was complaining about. Fancy that, purchased skills < player skills and experience I guess.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

Yet in order to make a skill imba you need players that are imba too, meaning you need players that actually know how to use it in the best way.
In a 20 vs 11 fight yesterday, there were three defilers with this skill equipped ranking from 6-10, i was targetted twice with the blght skill while not being targetted by any creeps for the whole duration I needed to move out and standing 20m away from the action. One was laid down into the WL where a burglar was attacking the healers. Then another one was put down under a minstrel who was, again, standing 20m away from any action an not being targeted. In the hand of simple minds this skill is just as useless as the players are.

^QFT

It is the fights you have no chance in, like the perma grey bar deaths from chain stuns/mez that creeps still have to endure that annoy me more than the prospect of a death that is avoidable with some situational awareness and a well timed pot.

Originally Posted by CroutonCabbage

Blight is the best skill in the game.

You’re entitled to this opinion.
I guess one side has to be the owner of that title and now, for the first time in LOTRO history that I can recall, it is the Creeps. If in fact you are correct about this skill and IMO you are not.

Originally Posted by ksjock

You’re entitled to this opinion.
I guess one side has to be the owner of that title and now, for the first time in LOTRO history that I can recall, it is the Creeps. If in fact you are correct about this skill and IMO you are not.

It's getting late and this thread is mindnumbinlgy aching of bad translation between the two sides, so I'll be quick.

Just for reference, the purple freeple eater was, at that time, the most powerful skill in the moors as well.