Thread: Defiler Enhanced Blight skill OP? Working as Intended? Dev response?

Its really wonderful to see that things are progressing exactly as anticipated... I am disappointed and in fact I'm surprised that there isn't even moar QQ by all of you... there are actually a few freeps that see this as a good change that will force new tactics that will bring a bit more excitement to RvR fights.... We creeps have been predicting this and its certainly satisfying to see after all this time of watching most freep raids ball up in the most advantageous locations and refuse to fight anywhere that didn't give them every single advantage. I'm sure you all hope that if you cry loudly enough, Turbine will nerf this skill so that you all can return to your AOE meat grinder creep farming machine that refuses to fight on anything other than your own terms... I mean seriously... the OP is asking if blight is working as intended? LOL

Originally Posted by Thrandurin

So many freeps QQing, get over yourselves. It's a legitimate skill that creeps get to break up the freep ball. Besides, the freep ball was always boring as hell to fight with.

Already on BW we have raid leaders telling us to fan out and adapt to the tactics, we've had some pretty freaking epic RVR in the past couple days with both sides getting roughly even kills! Though some fights the freeps did wipe the floor such as in LC and such.

As Prancey already stated,

ADAPT

And learn how fun RvR can be without the freep ball.

~Thrandurin R9 Hunter

Not every server has an Arrik or a Yelk. Maybe we can let them borrow our fraid leaders for a week to train them up or something?

I talked to Arrik and Nim last night and they didn't have a problem with improved blight at all. In fact, it didn't seem to affect our open field fights in the slightest.

But then Arrik has never been a freep baller. Blight will continue to separate the men from the boys.

To me, a creep skill shouldn't be solely determined by the tactics some freep raid leaders use on Brandywine or Elindilmir alone.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

It's more than clear to me now than ever that certain people are more interested in getting the other side back than they are having balanced pvp and quite frankly this suprises me. Some of you veteran creeps out there who've seen the moors for years know full well how unbalancing this skill is and yet you are sticking up for it. THIS MAKES ME LAUGH!

It also makes me laugh that it is you who says this.
Don't get me wrong, I also think Blight is an overpowered skill (COMPARED TO OTHER CREEP SKILLS! ), therefore it needs adjustment, I agree with that. However I think there are more important matters that need attention first, on this point I also agree with you: "balancing pvp" overall is superior than just nerfing one skill "getting the Defilers back".

So you want to balance pvp and that is nerfing Blight?
Whaaat about this certain side called Freepside.

Do you agree that freeps are the stronger side now? If not, I am stunned. (More CC? blasted!)

Originally Posted by Fearnoc

Blight will continue to separate the men from the boys.

Indeed. Today I met some freep groups/raids trying to kill tyrant in TR and in LUG, they all used the old tactic standing in one of the corners in tyrant room, we putted blights down to them and they all died because they just didn't move away from it (-75% versions). Freeps just need to forget old battle plans and try something new...like moving away from it....

This story will change dramatically when fraids in full moors raid gear start roaming the map.

And it will happen. Then we'll need blight just to hang onto a single keep.

How does this skill work with multiple blights? If 4 defilers throw down blight, and a freep moves out of them, is that 4 dots?

The skill didn't seem that bad when thinking about it solo - didn't know the dots stacked.

Originally Posted by Radardog

How does this skill work with multiple blights? If 4 defilers throw down blight, and a freep moves out of them, is that 4 dots?

The skill didn't seem that bad when thinking about it solo - didn't know the dots stacked.

You can never have more than 3 blight dots at same time.

Originally Posted by Turukano

So you want to balance pvp and that is nerfing Blight?

I most certainly don't want to come off as snide when I say this but I don't think I ever said pvp would be balanced by adjusting any one skill, freep or creep.

Originally Posted by Turukano

Whaaat about this certain side called Freepside.

As there is and always has been, freeps have things going for them that need adjustments as well. It's always been a buff and nerf environment and I don't see that ever changing.

Originally Posted by Turukano

Do you agree that freeps are the stronger side now? If not, I am stunned. (More CC? blasted!)

From my limited time in the moors since I dinged 75 early thursday morning, I would have to say without hesitance that in a 1v1 scenario freeps appear to be the stronger of the two sides currently. I've yet to lose a 1v1 since ROI launched but I ask myself is it me or is it Turbine? I've won the fights I was winning before ROI but I've also won a few fights against creeps that I had a lower winning percentage against before ROI. In conclusion, I do feel I'm now buffed in comparison to my pre-ROI version and can point to one skill change that's making that happen.

If creeps complain - its ok
If freeps complain - its QQ


Seriously, in no other game did I encounter such culture of eternal victims.

And speaking in general - anyone noticed the post Isen morale of freep dps classes? healers? How about an army of ranked BA's that has been locked in a closet after the firedot nerf? The horde of f2p reavers that WILL hurt when joining keep fights?

All that some creeps see is the seriously nerfed warg damage, vlid spider pet bugs and "oh noes, my 15 k reaver does low dps".

There are many more things happening around.

Originally Posted by Mizqa

Indeed. Today I met some freep groups/raids trying to kill tyrant in TR and in LUG, they all used the old tactic standing in one of the corners in tyrant room, we putted blights down to them and they all died because they just didn't move away from it (-75% versions). Freeps just need to forget old battle plans and try something new...like moving away from it....

I agree that freep tactics will need to change in order to have a chance to counter this but keep in mind that even if the freep group had have moved the tyrant to a different spot within the CG/Tyrant room, the defilers present there could have simply reapplied more blight to the freeps which would garauntee the freeps would get the maximum number of debuffs/dots.

The 30 second cooldown is simply too short given the duration of the skill, when traited, is longer than the c/d for the skill. The strength of the incoming healing debuff (-75%) is also too strong in my opinion as is the range of 30 meters with a 2.5 second induction. I also disagree that any one cloud should have the ability to apply multiple disease affects regardless of how many times you run through it.

With such a short cooldown and ease of obtaining the skill, Tyrant rooms are going to look like a paintball convention.

If I have a burg or champ annoying me on my defiler, even in a full raid, I cannot get off a 2.5s(or worse, stupid addle and frost lore) induction. Even auto-attacks set back my inductions, and I do need to be healing people as well.

Just another consideration for this discussion.

Freeps have been able to roll Creep for YEARS with SEVERAL skills PER CLASS. And someone has the gall to complain Creeps have ONE skill that they're using effectively without Freeps acting intelligently to counter?

OMG!

If you move in and out of it you'll get a maximum of 3 DoTs, NO MATTER HOW MANY BLIGHT PUDDLES ARE DOWN. So just make sure your silly LM is curing it. It can remove up to 3 diseases, so I don't see what the problem is. The puddle dots don't stack above 3 anyways. On BW we had some nice RvRs yesterday, with both sides getting kills, even though the freeps had a few low levels as well, and less numbers so of course creeps did better. All the freep raid did was SPREAD out and cure their diseases. Problem solved. So why can't the freeps from your server do the same?

Go have some REAL raid versus raid fights, before screaming out that the skill is "gamebreaking".

EDIT

Oh, might I add that the disease debuff (The -75% incoming healing) does NOT stack or stay with you once you leave the puddle for anyone who is unsure as to how the skill works.

Freep DPS/CC/AoE still melts faces. Stop crying about blight and make your LMs remove the dots.
Creeps have always complained that we are not on the same playing field in regards to DPS/CC/AoE and we still have not gotten upgraded in either area.
Now every defiler has blight. So start DPS/CC/AoEing moor instead of swimming in blight.

Last time I checked every RK has a skill that does -50% incoming healing to 4-7 targets on a 30s CD. Start using it instead of spamming Ceaseless Argument maybe?

::Edit::
The only valid argument I see here is that blight's effect doesn't appear to cover the entire area and it is being fixed.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

The puddle itself cannot be placed where you want it, it can only be placed on a target.

So to get a puddle on top of the tar, they need to be targeting someone standing on the tar.

Of course, if you insist on standing a bunch of people in one small area this update you are going to get blown up horribly lol.

Sorry to say we use different tactics on Morthond. We usually spread out and kite the reavers through two tars put into the shape of an 8. Really good defilers will be able to force new tactics upon the freeps. Well people have adapted all the time and so it will be again. As long as people just do not get how to use their skills effectively it is just a minor issue I'd say. But it is indeed incredibly powerful as a skill with a low CD and I expect an adjustment in a while. Have to see how it works out but yet I don't think I am put into incredible danger by this skill

Honestly the 3 dots ticking with 71 are no problem at all. Dangerous is the debuff in the puddle.

I said this before somewhere, but if every freep comes in looking to do damage and getting killing blows while zerg balling. Blight is going to wipe you. In the past freeps could get away with this because creep simply had no viable counter to a zerg ball, not even the troll was effective because it had SoA level damage. The result was a freep ball that can only be wiped by poor decisions made by the freep raid or a long fight that eventually drains the freeps with a kill ratio of 10 creeps for every freep.

The typical freep raid in Laurelin has so much overkill damage, there is no point in having so much. If more of the raid focuses on support and preservation then they could survive so much better than almost pure offence raids.

Obviously lots of people have forgotten how the WL banner was working in SoA (before being nerfed with MoM...).

Originally Posted by GrandCru

Obviously lots of people have forgotten how the WL banner was working in SoA (before being nerfed with MoM...).

QQ more, pls.


Just mark/tooltip every defiler and keep interrupting them (burglar +75%, lm +50%). It's easy as 1,2,3 or keeping every single mini in combat to avoid an AOE OOC rez.

Adapt & l2p.

Originally Posted by Prancey

Didn't take long for freeps to cry OP about blight.

Disregard whether the skill is Creep/Freep Prancey. You don't see an issue with a spammable/stackable Ranged AoE -75% Healing Debuff that potentially converts to a mass DoT whose animation is borked?

Originally Posted by Lonectzn

Realistically, given WB/Turbine's history and their general attitude towards MP, I expect it will be nerfed quite quickly.

Two reasons why you are wrong and it will not be nerfed quickly (if ever): a) Blight is selling fantastically in the Build-A-Creep PvMP Store and b) Turbine's history for making PvMP adjustments is horrid. It usually takes them a long time (3 months minimum) to make even the slightest change. If something does change, and I'm not saying it will, my guess is it won't happen until Update 5.

There is something else to consider by the way. Can WB/Turbine even change the skill? It's selling like hot cakes in the Store. Every nub Defiler and their mother is buying it. If the skill changed, wouldn't WB/Turbine have to refund these peeps' their hard-earned TPs? Doesn't seem fair that what you buy one day is suddenly changed the next day. So you drive off the BMW lot with a new 6 Series Convertible only to discover just three weeks later that it transformed into a KIA Sportage (or whatever). That's no bueno.

Originally Posted by Lonectzn

To adapt to it freeps would have to switch to more open combat, spreading out a lot more and avoiding tight areas. Often, that's just not possible.

Not at all. The strategic answer for Freeps is very simple. They will simply have to forego healing and build heavily for Burst DPS. WB/Turbine has answered the question of whether Minis and RKs should be DPS or heals in the Moors. They clearly should be DPS. You can thank Build-A-Creep Defilers for escalating the DPS race, although it was going to eventually happen anyway. It will happen more quickly now.

Look to Freeps to also use their cooldowns more often and begin using more consumables to gain additional buffs for increased mitigation and damage (Store purchases anyone?). Pretty sure the Store Morale Pot compensates well for off-setting the DoT component of Blight even when stacked.

Freeps will also, from this point forward, undoubtedly be range DPS griefing Defilers in group combat situations. Defilers used to be a nuisance, sometimes a severe one. Now they will be Target A-#1.

Originally Posted by MechFierce

You guys do realize it takes the rank 15 trait for it the magnitude to increase from -50% to -75% and the duration from 15s (30s cd) to 45s duration.

Rank means nothing in the Build-A-Creep age. The skill is only a few hundred TPs away from any nub Defiler that wants it. And every Defiler wants it (they would be a fool not to) so every Defiler with means is scoring it.

Originally Posted by Ursaking

Think up new strategies as we creeps have had to do.

Click Turbine Store Button. Purchase Blight.

That's some serious strategic thinking right there. lawl

Originally Posted by Prancey

If you move in and out of it you'll get a maximum of 3 DoTs, NO MATTER HOW MANY BLIGHT PUDDLES ARE DOWN. So just make sure your silly LM is curing it.

Sure, an LM removing diseases would be helpful in that regard, that much is a given just as a hunter removing poisons is just as useful. However, when facing multiple defilers with the rank 15 skill, the application can be virtually constant given the low c/d of the skill for defilers.

The new LM skill for disease removal:



As you can see, this skill has a 25.2 meter range, with a 10 second c/d and is also now instacast with no induction and removes up to 3 disease affects for those players within your fellowship only. The LM must also trait for this skill to be full fellowship removal. The untraited version is a click target and apply skill only. Therefor, to fully counter Blight's effects, every fellowship must contain an LM with this skill traited and have all players within that fellowship not go back into Blight's diameter for 10 seconds and be within that 25.2 meter range when the skill is used.

Originally Posted by Prancey

Problem solved. So why can't the freeps from your server do the same?

As it is with every server, population of any one class, regardless of side played, varies. Maybe BW has more Lm's than Landroval does?

Originally Posted by Prancey

Oh, might I add that the disease debuff (The -75% incoming healing) does NOT stack or stay with you once you leave the puddle for anyone who is unsure as to how the skill works.

While the debuff may not stack once you leave the clouded area if a single defiler cloud is down, additional clouds CAN be placed in the same area by different defilers and the debuff WILL be re-applied to the players. Maybe that's part of the issue here. While yes, I think the skill is over the top in power in and of itself, the multiplying effects of having several defilers with the skill in one place compounds the issue by leaps and bounds. Also, let's not kid ourselves here, the vast majority of creeps playing defilers are going to have this skill.

Originally Posted by Nytshade617

Freep DPS/CC/AoE still melts faces. Stop crying about blight and make your LMs remove the dots.

Freep DPS is good yes, but that isn't the point here. Having one LM per group in every fight just isn't feasible. Creeps have a MUCh easier time in balancing out their groups but freeps simply don't have that luxury of having every player "switch to their LM".

Originally Posted by Nytshade617

Creeps have always complained that we are not on the same playing field in regards to DPS/CC/AoE and we still have not gotten upgraded in either area.

While those points may be true, they are simply not all the variables involved in the moors now, before or likely in the future. There are other ways in which creeps have advantages over freeps I might add.

Originally Posted by Nytshade617

Now every defiler has blight. So start DPS/CC/AoEing moor instead of swimming in blight.

Swimming is an interesting anology here so allow me to make one of my own. In a confined area such as a keep the "swimming pool" is only so large and when facing multiple Blight traited defilers there is literally no way to avoid dipping your toes in the water or for that matter doing a huge belly flop from the high dive in this instance.

Originally Posted by Nytshade617

Last time I checked every RK has a skill that does -50% incoming healing to 4-7 targets on a 30s CD. Start using it instead of spamming Ceaseless Argument maybe?

As far as I can tell, this is what an R/k can do:



To my knowledge, this R/k skill's duration can be lengthened by legacies, but it's -Incoming healing cannot.

Originally Posted by SnakeShaker

QQ more, pls.

Cute.

Originally Posted by SnakeShaker

Just mark/tooltip every defiler and keep interrupting them (burglar +75%, lm +50%). It's easy as 1,2,3 or keeping every single mini in combat to avoid an AOE OOC rez.

keeping defilers marked and interrupted is simply not a feasible tactic for three reasons.

1) The induction is a mere 2.5 seconds on Blight
2) The induction has no unique animation
3) The range is 30 meters on the skill and only a few freep classes can interrupt from that range even if they are standing there looking for it.

Originally Posted by SnakeShaker

Adapt & l2p.

Again, cute. Very.

Freepside, if a burglar is on the target it'll have -50% incoming healing no matter where it goes. Or a RK can put the -30% incoming healing debuff on any target it chooses for a 20/30s duration from a 30m range, doesn't matter where the target moves to. That right there is -80% incoming healing on a creep and it doesn't matter where the creep stands. Minstrels can also give out -incoming healing to unlimited targets within a 10m range if they choose. I think the magnitude is ~10 or 20%.

Freeps are complaining about a -75% incoming healing puddle when they themselves can do -80 to -100% incoming healing debuffs on creeps? The freep -incoming healing doesn't come off if the creep moves, but if the freep moves it's off instantly.

I'll agree that Blight should be fixed (currently most defilers have the enhanced version without actually traiting the R15 trait). All the other QQ about the skill is pathetic.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

Freepside, if a burglar is on the target it'll have -50% incoming healing no matter where it goes. Or a RK can put the -30% incoming healing debuff on any target it chooses for a 20/30s duration from a 30m range, doesn't matter where the target moves to. That right there is -80% incoming healing on a creep and it doesn't matter where the creep stands. Minstrels can also give out -incoming healing to unlimited targets within a 10m range if they choose. I think the magnitude is ~10 or 20%.

Freeps are complaining about a -75% incoming healing puddle when they themselves can do -80 to -100% incoming healing debuffs on creeps? The freep -incoming healing doesn't come off if the creep moves, but if the freep moves it's off instantly.

I'll agree that Blight should be fixed (currently most defilers have the enhanced version without actually traiting the R15 trait). All the other QQ about the skill is pathetic.

Single person vs having 3 ppl working together on same target and the deadliest one of burg is only single target not AOE. And creeps can do -100% as well with worg maul.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

All the other QQ about the skill is pathetic.

Instead of thinking about it as "QQ", have you even stopped for a moment and realized I've stated my opinion and been constructive about why I think my opinion is valid?

The only pathetic thing I've seen thus far in this thread is the non-constructive immature comments such as the one you just posted.

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

Instead of thinking about it as "QQ", have you even stopped for a moment and realized I've stated my opinion and been constructive about why I think my opinion is valid?

The only pathetic thing I've seen thus far in this thread is the non-constructive immature comments such as the one you just posted.

Do you know why creeps are telling the freeps "QQ"? Because that is exactly what freeps told the creeps about say, the new minstrel rez, or the RK's riffler for example. Funny how things are, eh?

Play creepside because it is obviously so much easier than playing a freep right now.
/thread

Oh no! Turbine we cant stand in a freep ball and not thing about where we're standing anymore! I want to just stand there and face roll my keyboard while raking in renown! Now I have to think! I cant just blindly chase after a creep?! What will i do now? I know complain on the forums until turbine removes it cus thinking is too hard.

Hi guys, i'm a creep and i'm here to complain about Freeps QQing. LOL silly noob freeps.


Now back to QQing about freep skills in 10 other threads on these boards.

Originally Posted by reianime

Oh no! Turbine we cant stand in a freep ball and not thing about where we're standing anymore! I want to just stand there and face roll my keyboard while raking in renown! Now I have to think! I cant just blindly chase after a creep?! What will i do now? I know complain on the forums until turbine removes it cus thinking is too hard.

Oh no Turbine. we can't stand in the back anymore and press TAB DOT all day and not think about anything anymore! I want to just stand there and face roll my keyboard while raking in infamy! Now I have to think! I cant just blindly chase after a freep?! What will i do now? I know complain on the forums until turbine removes it cus thinking is too hard.

oh wait we still have DOTs, well let me QQ here about QQing freeps so our OP skills aren't removed.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

Honestly the 3 dots ticking with 71 are no problem at all. Dangerous is the debuff in the puddle.

The sad thing is that the DoT tooltips for over 150 damage... your acid mitigation has just gone up that much.

But yeah, complaining about a DoT that does 35 dps to a hunter is just LOL.

The skill is nasty, but whatever.

I think Overtone already said something along these lines, but apparently we have a lot more R10+ Defilers than I thought on E, or a lot fewer people were bothered by the idea of buying skills than the earlier complaint threads would have us believe.

Originally Posted by witchking782

And creeps can do -100% as well with worg maul.

On a lucky crit. In any case, is it terrible that creeps could possibly be better at something than freeps? I'm sure someone has made a laundry list somewhere of all the things freeps are capable of that creeps can't come close to.

Was it not so much of an issue on the open field, Lee? Those skirmishes between SOP and GV last night seemed pretty even from my eyes. Because if it's only devastating in close quarters I really don't see how it's any worse that the napalm and tar we deal with daily. You have the means to deal with the DoTs. You even have the support to keep people alive long enough to get out of the -healing area via bubbles and shield walls.

I won't argue that the skill isn't strong, maybe even borderline OP. But then, everyone seems to be pretty OP these days.

EDIT: They do need to fix the graphic so you can see the extent of the puddle, they've already acknowledged this.

I have to agree this sounds very similar to the original implementation of Banner of Terror. Freeps complained that it stopped an entire raid with one skill. Banner of Terror was subsequently changed to the point I rarely remember I even have it. History repeats itself, so as much as I hate to say it, Defilers should use it while you've got it 'cause you won't have it long.

The bigger issue here to me is how utterly terrible purchasing of skills of any rank in the Store is. Here's a powerful skill that should only be available to a limited number of dedicated, high rank Defilers. But now anyone can buy it so its impact is greatly magnified and will result in a chagne to the skill (my guess).

Fix the whole traited/not traited issue. Then, lower the range to 15m or make it land right around the defiler. Increase the CD to 2min untraited, 1min traited duration is 30s both ways. That should be enough imo. It's the creep version of hopeful heart.

I don't want the skill to go away, it's too cool and makes people think. But as is I think it's too powerful for it's availability.

The skill idea is great but the magnitude and cooldown/duration is messed up. You can't give that much power to one class on one skill. Split it up between multiple classes like it is on freepside.

Plus the raid gear is better than the pvp gear so most creeps won't have to deal with burg/mini ones.

Creeps get 1 powerful skill it will be promptly nerfed. Freeps have tons of powerful skills, they will not be balanced.

Originally Posted by witchking782

You can't give that much power to one class on one skill.

Leave Runekeeper's out of this!

Originally Posted by leekofthewood

As you can see, this skill has a 25.2 meter range, with a 10 second c/d and is also now instacast with no induction and removes up to 3 disease affects for those players within your fellowship only. The LM must also trait for this skill to be full fellowship removal. The untraited version is a click target and apply skill only. Therefor, to fully counter Blight's effects, every fellowship must contain an LM with this skill traited and have all players within that fellowship not go back into Blight's diameter for 10 seconds and be within that 25.2 meter range when the skill is used.

Can be traited fellowship wide and have CD lowered to 5 seconds? Now that is spammable and an effective counter.

Originally Posted by Lonectzn

It is a very powerful skill, and I would say it's probably the most dangerous skill out there right now. Its current implementation is a variable length -75% AOE healing debuff plus a guaranteed high damage AOE dot (since even people staying in the pool get the dot when it disappears). To adapt to it freeps would have to switch to more open combat, spreading out a lot more and avoiding tight areas. Often, that's just not possible.

Realistically, given Turbine's history and their general attitude towards MP, I expect it will be nerfed quite quickly. As a creep I love it, but you can see what's coming. Hopefully while they're nerfing us back to oblivion they can get around to fixing all our bugs too :-)

I'm sorry but the most dangerous thing out there is freep dps. A 70 rk is has 3 skills that hit over 4k. Essense of flame, Epic Conclusion, and Shocking words. Minis have hit 5k on their coda. I play a warden I know for a fact that I am going to be hitting big too. Burgs can even hit improved counter defense for 1k. Hunters have been posting big crits as well. I feel sorry for creeps. God forbid they have one skill thats considered op.

There is nothing about the blight skill that makes it more powerful than the numerous other skills that exist in the game. This skill gives a class that could never really do anything offensive on its own a method of actually being useful.

Over the years creeps have had to constantly deal with ever increasingly powerful freep items, equipment and skills in each book. Creep players adapted to changes like tar and came up with new tactics and strategies for fighting.

Before RoI creeps really didn't have any area of effect skills that were of concern to freeps. Now creeps have some options and freeps will need to adapt. It is a sad commentary when the creeps have to spoon feed the freeps tactics on how to deal with this skill. Freeps will now have to do more than be a mindless zerg ball mowing down their opponents. These changes will make PvMP more interesting as long as the devs don't cave in to the incessant whining of some freeps who don't want to use their brains in PvP.

I believe if LMs don't have PAAI (wound and disease clear) traited it is also OOC only. At least, it used to be. I always had it traited so I never checked to see if it changed.

My main issue with this is that PAAI just got nerfed. Traited, it used to be a 1s induction and no CD, now it has no induction but 10s CD. It was nearly useless getting rid of the DoTs because they'd stack right back up and then people were dead by the time the CD was up...

I haven't decided how I feel about this skill. The -75% does seem a little high, but it is a limited area. Hallway would suck. I've only been out raiding once - with Lee last night - so I need to see how this works and how we can try to work around it before I cast judgement.