Thread: Tolkien's Greatest Hits

Hey all, I just replied to a post and used Galadriel's quote from when she was offered the One Ring.

It's my personal opinion that this quote

"In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark; but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!"

is probably Tolkien's greatest quote from the novels. It is so LAYERED it's not funny.

Feel free to post your own idea of what Tolkien's greatest moments are.

Here is my interpretation of Galadriel's quote, as well:

Dark Lord vs. Queen - fairly obvious. You would create a Dark Queen--Uber-Galadriel instead of Sauron. Essentially a perversion of God's plan for the World---the Elves are fated to fade. Galadriel's almost unlimited potency--the marriage of the powers of Sauron and the Light of Two Trees would up-end that to the great detriment of all.

Not Dark... - The imagery of the Morning Star is rich and vibrant. Lucifer himself was called the Lord of the Morning, the Morning Star. He was the greatest and most powerful of the Angels in Heaven, the one with the most capacity for brilliance and goodness--and the one with the greatest fall when he over-reached his position. This ties very closely into Gnostic beliefs that state that in order to observe his own Creation, God had to create an Observer-aspect (since he IS creation already) in order to get an "outside" view. This observer aspect forgot that it was itself a creation, and thought itself the true God. Thus is the Sun, ie, Lucifer a "false" God, but certainly a convincing facsimile...It is very easy to worship Lucifer, so briliant that he IMPELS worship. But the true God does not need to force the issue--true faith is GIVEN. And like Lucifer, Galadriel would only lead her thralls to suffering and darkness.

Treacherous as the Seas! - The Seas in Tolkien (and indeed, in our own world) are certainly a double-edged sword. An endless supply of food, and freedom, and fostering a connection to the divine, (in Middle-Earth, quite literally the only way to Valinor, so "taking the ship" to Valinor can be seen as a metaphor for transcendant death) the seas are nevertheless the Widowmaker of both worlds. Osse was one of Melkor's at one point, but Uinen brought him back into Ulmo's service. He has ever been extremely prone to wrath and great anger. It is this extreme divergence from the bounty, mercy and compassion of Eru that would eventually show itself on Galadriel's ascension to Dark Queen.

Stronger than the foundations... - No power in the Mortal Realm could possibly contest Galadriel's might. Even the Balrogs, for example, living deep within the cthonic realm (under the earth, where mystery lives) would be no match. It would literally have to be a Vala that took her down. But since they will not do so (cf. imagery of the rainbow, which parallels with the Valar's promise never to sunder the Earth again)--Galadriel would be the ending of the world. The Gods would either let her be, or destroy her and the very Earth with it. She would be as impossible to uproot as the mountains---yet if it could be done, it would literally mean the unmaking of the world.

All shall love me... - People in thrall to her would be FORCED to love her, against the very nature and definition of what love is--voluntary and freely given. And in being so forced, with no hope of change, they would despair -- the ultimate sin in Tolkien's world-view. And they would be right to despair, to lose faith in the "eucatastrophe" that only God can bring about; because as I mentioned, only Divine Intervention could save them at that point, and such an intervention would be a purifying-by-flame type scenario.

This is probably my favorite quote as well. It becomes all that more dramatic when you read some of the history that Tolkien prepared for Galadriel. In one of the iterrations of her story Tolkien had her leaving Valinor beacuse she desired a kingdom to rule and power to bring about her will (who does this sound like?). Although Tolkien later backed away from much of this, the echoes are still in that passage from the book. By turning down the Ring at that point, she is effectively saying "Yes, I wanted this very thing, power and command, that is why I left Valinor but I have learned my lesson and understand that power and ruling others leads only to one thing" and that is why she turns it down and accepts her "diminishment". Her testing and subsequent willingness to pass back to the West is in stark contrast to Saruman, who comes from the West but falls prey to lust for the Ring and wants to establish himself as a potential rival to Sauron.

That's certainly a very powerful scene, as much for the imagery of Galadriel as the Dark Queen as for her refusal of the Ruling Ring and the acceptance of her fate to diminish and go into the West. The thing we should remember, however, is that Galadriel's image of herself as the Dark Queen is facilitated by the power of the Ring, and does not necessarily reflect the truth if she had actually accepted Frodo's offer of the Ring and gained mastery of it, as much as mastery was actually possible. (Sam also experienced visions of grandeur, obviously delusional ones, when he donned the Ring and was tempted by it.) Once Galadriel had gained mastery of the Ring, she would still have to face Sauron.

Tolkien explained this in a letter draft to Mrs. Eileen Elgar, Letter 246 in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien:

Sauron would not have feared the Ring! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of 'mortals' not one, not even Aragorn...

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him--being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', I 381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built an empire and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.

Bumbity bumb.
Anyhow, for me one of the FINEST lines Tolkien ever wrote on his books was the one when he described Aragorn in death.
(Please note, i have the finnish edition of the books, therefore i cannot say that this quote will be 100% correct.)

"And there he laid; as the image of the kings of men that did not dim before the breaking of the world."

I always liked the very simple "I am Aragorn son of Arathorn; and if by life or death I can save you, I will"

Originally Posted by Onir

Bumbity bumb.
Anyhow, for me one of the FINEST lines Tolkien ever wrote on his books was the one when he described Aragorn in death.
(Please note, i have the finnish edition of the books, therefore i cannot say that this quote will be 100% correct.)

"And there he laid; as the image of the kings of men that did not dim before the breaking of the world."

It's pretty close, the original reads as follows...
"And long there he lay, an image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world."

Andjay,
Excellent explination of Galadriel's quote. Consistant depth of thought into the nature of man and the devine are woven through Tolkien's works, similar somewhat to how C.S. Lewis wove his works too, each in their own ways. Questions and discussion help us all to mine out the messages and truths that they desired to convey. Keep up the good work.

Dramino

I cannot remember the exact words but I always laugh when Sam mutters about ropes and says that he ought to be hung on the end of one as a warning to numbskulls.

That quote was so in character.

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

I cannot remember the exact words but I always laugh when Sam mutters about ropes and says that he ought to be hung on the end of one as a warning to numbskulls.

That quote was so in character.

I agree, there are plenty of things like that that Sam said that are awesome. I have always liked Sam more than the other hobbits(sure he can be a bit annoying at times, but he is one of those people that way underestimates themselves at all times and is humble to a fault, which is part of what makes him my favorite).

Now for my favorite Tolkien passage would have to be the whole discussion Frodo and Gandalf have about the ring towards the end of "The Shadow of the Past." Specifically this bit:

Frodo: Now at any rate he[Gollum] is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death.
Gandalf: Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

"Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.
That was the last time in those wars that he passed the doors of his stronghold--. But he could not now deny the challenge before the face of his captains; for the rocks rang with the shrill music of Fingolfin's horn, and his voice came keen and clear down into the depths of Angband; and Fingolfin named Morgoth craven, and lord of slaves. Therefore Morgoth came, climbing slowly from his subterranean throne, and the rumour of his feet was like thunder underground."

- of Fingolfin, riding to Angband in madness after Morgoth had launched his assault on the Noldor after the siege of Angband.



What followed was the most badass death ever, and the scene itself is the embodiment of the word epic.

Thanks for that awesome analysis of Galadriel's quote - never looked at it like that before!
I think my favourite is also one of the simplest, and comes from the Hobbit - its Thorin's dying speech to Bilbo

"If more of us valued food and cheer above hoarded gold, it would be a much merrier world"

Speaking of Galadriel, here water ring of Nenya that she wears is a beautiful ring. In fact, the nenya ring has never been corrupted by Sauron...

Since this got bumped already, I thought I'd throw one of my favorites in. I know they shortened it for the movie and didn't use it in the same place, but this one part of Frodo and Gandalf's discussion of the One Ring and the return of Sauron always struck me.

From Fellowship of the Ring, The Shadow of the Past:

‘I wish it need not have happened in my time,’ said Frodo.
‘So do I,’ said Gandalf, ‘and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.’