Thread: Rise of Isengard: Hunter Developer Diary

Originally Posted by Eldrandir

1. I dislike the removal of Strong Draw, and the reasons for changing it are even worse then the change.

Everyone loved the trait and I don't buy the argument that the trait is over-powered with a zero cooldown Penetrating Shot, because with the Hele set it is effectively zero cooldown anyway (focus limited). If it is overpowered it is overpowered now.

Originally Posted by Eldrandir

2. How many times can the Hunter's Art buff stack?

Stacking three high is possible with the new armour set bonus- only two without it. It would be really nice to stance dance to get different bonuses, and ZC even suggested that he thinks it is more interesting if we stance dance more, but the the animation changes are so clunky that I think we probably lose DPS doing this.

I'm EXTREMELY happy to read that the animations of Fleetness and Needful Haste have been streamlined for the same reasons.

Originally Posted by Eldrandir

3. New Arrow Storm. I love it...a LOT

Agreed, for AOE content the Hunter is going to be a lot more fun.

Originally Posted by Eldrandir

4. New IF. The attack duration reduction should never have been removed.

Agreed, this was the one thing that made IF really legendary. As is, I'll probably trait it if I know I won't need Thorns. I'm likely sticking 5 Blue now that it is confirmed that QS has an induction so it will probably always be an option.

Originally Posted by Eldrandir

5. Heightened Senses should be totally removed and the stealth track buff made innate, adding -10% power to it does nothing for the trait. It will never be slotted in a situation where -pc% is needed or even greatly beneficial.

Maybe it should be innate, but I think a lot of people are missing the point to the Power Cost buff. It's not that the two abilities conferred by the trait are supposed to be used in similar situations, it's that they are potentially desirable in differing situations which makes the trait more useful across types of content. It would be perfectly reasonable to trait it for PVE purely for the power cost benefit and trait it for PVP for the tracking. They don't need to double down and make it only a PVP trait.

Originally Posted by Eldrandir

8. Blindside. Despite the refusal to give us a ranged interrupt for stun immune mobs, can you at least make our melee interrupt instant?

Agreed, this needs to be Immediate for the interrupt.

Originally Posted by bastiat1

Maybe it should be innate, but I think a lot of people are missing the point to the Power Cost buff. It's not that the two abilities conferred by the trait are supposed to be used in similar situations, it's that they are potentially desirable in differing situations which makes the trait more useful across types of content. It would be perfectly reasonable to trait it for PVE purely for the power cost benefit and trait it for PVP for the tracking. They don't need to double down and make it only a PVP trait.

Or they could remove the tracking part of it and add something in addition to -10% power costs, because when you look at the new way the traits work there is really no room for yellows unless your using a bunch of them, and if you are using a bunch of yellows power is not going to be an issue anyway.

Originally Posted by SvenNiscadae

My guess would be so you can put the bleed back on after Scourging Blow takes it off.

That would be my guess too, but we're supposed to consider this an improvement, how? When was the last time a hunter had the type of problems in lotro nerfed pve world that necessitated forming a strategy that involved getting off a particular melee skill in order to trigger a non-induction bow skill? I honestly can't see the point.

Originally Posted by Forgotten_Legend

the point is to make melee combat more effective. you already used barbed arrow on the target while it's at ranged, but it ran up to you and is hitting you melee. hit scourging blow for skill damage PLUS, say 400 extra damage for removing the barbed arrow bleed. now hit instant barbed arrow to reapply the bleed. if the mob is still alive when scourging blow comes back up, repeat.

I think the point is that they ran out of ideas or don't adequately factor in what the community has been suggesting more or less the last couple of years ( see quoted text below, emphasis mine )

" It ran up to me "? In the grind introduced in solo pve to help advance our LI's ( e.g. the enedwaith dailies, or even mildly testing your toon against the giants or drakes ) I'm pretty sure no one I know has come close to being incapacitated short of extraordinary circumstances ( link fail etc ) . If a mob can walk through a max-level HU's dps then something in the rotation needs to be looked at instead of introducing a redesign leading to adding a skill which is tantamount to t**s on a bull lol

And if a hunter is pulling aggro from the types of mobs encountered in the 3-mans, 6-mans, and raids, the zero induction barbed won't mean a hill of beans, and, again, something in the hunter's rotation has to be looked at. The hunter community has not been asking for stuff like this. Instead, for starters, I'd love to see some of Tinluen's ( above ) questions addressed:

Originally Posted by Tinluen

A few questions from the Q and A that were not addressed:

1. Why did you put a in combat power reduction on a yellow line trait that no hunter uses in PVE? Only one small section of BG has ever used Heightened Senses in PVE, yet when power is going to be an issue you place it on a skill that has no use. This makes no sense. Hunters who do slot Heightened Senses in the moors do not need the in combat power regen because they are usually dead or have killed the target before it makes any difference.

Hunters should be able to track invisibles at level 65, now that wargs upon release of ROI can buy the trait to track invisibles from the lotro store. That's right a rank 0 warg with cash can now buy the invisible tracking trait for all the burgs and hunters out there. If you do keep the skill lose the animation and make the induction immediate. The time it takes to start the induction to the time I can actually see the red dot and target is almost 5 seconds. Good wargs know this and will use sprint to close and pounce the hunter before he can even target them.

Putting the power regen on something like Beneath Notice would be logical... if you need to get the big ugly off you then you have invested quite a bit of power to take aggro. The hunter solves two problems at once this way, backing off the aggro by spamming QS in endurance and getting power back to return to the fight.

2. Legendary Bow traits for hunters need to be addressed. No other class needs to double dip for both damage, power and threat traits. The other top tier dps classes are not built that way, yet hunters are being forced to spend points in both focus and induction attacks, power and threat. The costs of the traits are so high a hunter cannot even max the power and damage traits on a third age weapon. Please combine the traits from induction and focus or lower the costs for each tier. If you want us to begin to branch out and try new combinations we cannot with the current LI system. As of now ROI hunters will be hard pressed to slot even the quick shot / heartseeker bonuses or the burn hot bonus because there will be no points to put into them.

3. Legendary Weapon traits have seen a big shake up as well. Is there any way to look at the major/minors again now that some of the changes have made certain traits more valuable to have slotted while others have lost some of their sparkle? Certains skills will almost be mandatory now: Beneath Notice, Precision Crit, Multiple targets (since we are now supposedly a secondary AOE toon which we are not built to handle), Needful Haste (with the nerf to the skill), Strength of the Earth will now be a big trait to have as well with the bonuses now being given and Intent Concentration due to the needed power return and the reset value to Needful Haste (again see nerf). I loved the Agile Rejoiner heal, but it will have to stay at the 50% chance since I will not have any points to put in it or into raising the damage of my Legendary Weapon.

4. Why are we losing so much damage in the Yellow line, yes you have removed the damage penalty, but to trait for actual CC we must slot so many traits both on our toon and on our legendaries that our dps takes a large hit. Even going heavy into yellow we will come in third in CC classes behind LMs and burgs (with both classes getting a buff to their dps in ROI) and our dps drops down to second tier, so what advantage are we really gettting by going yellow?

5. Will campfire now scale up to level 75? It took forever to get it to scale to 65. Will our tomes get a bump as well now that we have added 10 levels?


6. Barbed Arrow bleed damage is not scaling very well from 65 to 75, which also makes the trait even more neccessay than before just to make the skill useful. Is there any plans to look at this before ROI goes live?

Tydalmir

Perhaps a way to improve Yellow line or S:E would be to give them an effect that makes one of the ranged attacks into an interrupt just like slows are added in certain stances.

Originally Posted by Ulheronuil

Perhaps a way to improve Yellow line or S:E would be to give them an effect that makes one of the ranged attacks into an interrupt just like slows are added in certain stances.

The yellow line shouldn't be bound to S:E ... S:E is sth we only use to avoid aggro...the yellow line should bring benefits to S:P or S:S even If they're small. Sth like 4 yellow + S:P = - 50% Blood Arrow Moral costs ...-30 sec CD of cry of the predator .... They could change it to a Pvmp line so that at least ANYBODY uses it.

Some of the changes are good some are bad, my issue is theres things done that make no sense ( thats pretty normal thow ).

One of the things I did while preparing for this update was roll a new Hunter and play the first dozen levels. Imagine my surprise after playing in Raid groups and new landscape content at not having the ability to dual wield or use medium armor! My first changes to the Hunter were easy to decide on.

So do you or do you not have a 65 hunt ZC cause if you do and you raid I highly dout some of these changes would have ben made.

Stances not being tied to trait lines is good.
Threat being taken away from strength stance wasn't needed extra when used well can be usefull, I think this change was made cause theres to many terrible hunters that don't know how to manage agro. This game as already stated gets more and more simplistic with each update.

Increased trap damage is useless traps do almost nothing with a long cooldown as is.

Giving parry to endurance stance is wrong you shouldn't be taking hits in that stance as is.

Removing the avoidance from percision seems off, thought that was the primary point of the stance, maybe its not needed with finess thow.

Taking the attack speed from fleet stance was pointless is already used to little.

As EVERYONE has already said why nerf strong draw.

Arrow storm change is nice so is the changes to press onward

Trying to make trapper into a weak dubbfing line wiht some CC is debatable. As already stated the debbfs we're getting are very generic and other classes with similar ones have better versions.

Highted needs to be pasive and the bonus to power will not make it viable primarily cause of the traitline its in.

Split shot shive give 2 focus but the skills a nice addition as is hunters art

Blood arrow on the move is nice, most hunter skills need to be looked at, remove the root each skill pots you in please, to many induction classes suffer from this.


This goes for all classes inturupts and corruption removal needs to be seperate skills why use a mez to remove corutions? or lose the benifit from the focus gain on BS cause you need the inturupt. Ever bring an RK to stonehieght, they can't inturput anything cause it screws challenge.

Some good changes and some poorly thought out nerfs. Also stop trying to get them to replie to our questions they've proven they don't care and lie anyway ( new moors map, stat tomes ).

sorry in advance for all the spelling/grammer errors.

Didn't intend to suggest they be bound together. Just suggesting that an interrupt be added to a ranged attack by either an added effect of the S:E, or an additional trait or bonus for multiple traits in the yellow line. Just seems like they both are less used and by adding ranged interrupt to one of them would help at least one of them.

I don't really know if this is the right place to post this, but do you have anything to do with bonuses on hunter armour, ZC? Last I saw the bonuses for the new PvE set were very weak, I was wondering if we might see any change before ROI goes live?

Thank you very much for posting the Dev Diary for the hunter ZC.

I will be honest, I thought my hunter was doomed!
Turns out with some of the changes that are made, the class will get refreshed with new play style and new traiting possibilities.
I am now looking forward to seeing what RoI has in store for my hunter and a little less afraid of the changes now that they have been clearly laid out in front of me.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Neladhrir

Also saw the new legendary bow designs, finally got rid of the Bat'leth bow, a thank you there.

link please!

Originally Posted by ElfenLight

link please!

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ry-bows-around

I for one am delighted about the coming changes, especially to Strong Draw!
















Full disclosure: shareholder of WB Entertainment and fully leveled Scholar. Turbine Store-bought and crafted focus potions are gonna be all the rage!

Originally Posted by Eldrandir

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ry-bows-around

First Age looks horrible. The crossbows are somethong that I really like though, nice work! I'll have to wear a bow though for the 2% elven bonus though nobody knows whether it works or not

I like what i see ZC, change is never easy and there will always be folks that feel u personally nerfed them and how they run, smart folks know that's far from the truth.

We cried for an update.. bitched at the lack of an update (it seemed) for RoI. and when set update is announced.. some folks still think its *not what they wanted* but in truth it all sounds like EXACTLY what we needed.

Thanks ZC, looking forward to re-learning some rotations and playing with new tricks

Thank you for implementing the zero induction for Barbed Arrow after using Scourging Blow and allowing Blood Arrow to be used while on the move. Both of these should contribute greatly to kiting effectiveness in PvMP. I do wonder however, if there will be a damage penalty for using Blood Arrow while moving.

The parry buff in S:E is actually a good idea, contrary to opinions I've seen elsewhere here. When you consider that dropping into S:E and using QS is effective to reduce threat if you've pulled aggro off the tank then it makes sense to have an increased chance to parry.

Needful Haste:
Animation removed, skill is now instant and usable while moving.

I was beaming with joy at this change then I saw...

Reduce duration to 15s.

Guess my Hunter will remain shelved after all. The Strong Draw change...I don't like, obviously, but I am more upset by the complete and utter garbage they gave to us in its place. +3% dmg? lol.

Also, many traits remain completely useless. Splendid job on failing to make Stealthy Shot useful and ignoring other never used traits. Color me impressed.

Swift Recovery:

Needful Haste cooldown reduced by 30s.

That sounds like you nerfed the trait. Did you nerf it?

I see Hunters are no longer "on par" but do "top tier damage".

This will be interesting.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

That sounds like you nerfed the trait. Did you nerf it?

Yea, the effectiveness of the trait was reduced by 50% to make sure that the Needful Haste nerf remained a nerf. Traited & legacied without changing the trait would allow perma applying Needful Haste.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

First Age looks horrible. The crossbows are somethong that I really like though, nice work! I'll have to wear a bow though for the 2% elven bonus though nobody knows whether it works or not

I hate that fish.......

I don't believe for one second the dev has played a hunter at cap for any length of time on the basis of these changes. Certainly doesn't care for our opinions.

But itis easier to swing the collective game mechanic and class nerf bat and make us work our way back to our former competence all over again as they are doing rather than develop challenging content.

Suck it up or leave are our only options.

Zombie, I know you and likely your team took a considerable look at the Hunter class before implementing these changes, overall I guess things aren't as bad as I thought they'd end up, as far as I can interpret.

But still pretty weak changes, a mixed bag, to allow for a more varied approach to game play, the flaws in class design have still not been addressed adequately. I do think at this point Hunters deserve the same serious revamp Champions are receiving with Isen, and the current changes don't scratch the surface of the potential revamp this class could seriously use at this point. I am not going to point out how seriously flawed our class is in detail at this point, I'll just ask the questions not addressed in the diary at this point.

But some day you will have to explain to me how Hunters are designed to be tier1 dps similiar to a RK when they max out their attunement, and we continue to endure focus concessions, damage reductions to stances over and over again. I know the hunter class was created upon creation of the game, and being able to design rks with moria, gave a great deal of time to design a class without the flaws of previous dps classes, but Champions are finally getting their needed improvement, give us ours at some point without all the drawbacks and hidden clauses. We were overpowered back in the days of book 6 early moria, getting 6k Coolburn Heartseekers, but at that point we were more balanced with RK dps than we are at this point, and its apparent there is no attempt to bring about any equity, we just have to deal with inductions and focus/power problems while RKs get 2-3x our power pool and so on.

I am pretty annoyed our focus generation is getting nerfed even further, and the solution to our power problems in Devs minds' is to have to use Strength of the Earth more often, and use that for in combat focus regen. Zombie, adding 9 focus while generating 1000power for having to sit out another 5 seconds of a fight, even without interrupt problems still doesn't address the flaws of our class this is a cop out.

I wish Penetrating shot was still on a 3 second cooldown, and they wouldn't touch Strong Draw, I will even deal with Bloodarrow not being useable while moving. Reducing our focus costs by 1 for both, with no cooldown on Penetrating shot isn't overpowered. Penetrating shot is still our worst power/damage skill, and you've left it horribly in tact.

If your really going to trainreck strongdraw give Swiftbow 3 focus for 3 arrow shots, give us at least that back, these new art skills will basically only be useful as preclicks while regening focus out of combat before a fight starts, efficency wise having more focus to do more focus damaging skills is more valuable than +finnese + ranged damage for a short duration bs.

Perhaps I just missed it but has Resolute Aim been adjusted to compensate for the reduced duration of Needful Haste?

but I know Hunters remain top tier damage

*Cough* RK *Cough*

When i see the changes on the hunter, all it makes me think is that the guy who did this made a red hunter and said: "I want my red hunter (with big numbers) but I also want advantages from other colors (yellow and blue)". So you are red, shoot stronger, but don't use more power, nor generate more threat. Absolutely Fabulous!

Seriously, almost all hunters are already red, the devs say they want some variations, but they simply suppress the inconvenients of red deeds (power cost and threat generation).

This is the end of yellow and blue lines, guys!

Originally Posted by Stif

This is the end of yellow and blue lines, guys!

Actually, with the increased focus cost, increased inductions and after-animations, you are more likely to do less damage with a red trait line than blue.

If anything it is the end to the red trait lines.

End of the yellow would imply it had a beginning... *shrugs*

Most top tier hunters will probably use 5B/2R from now on.
And even then they will only be 3rd on the single target sustainable list (according to now several parses) behind the RK and Champ.
Of course this 3rd place is "on par"... if you look past the full(ish) healing and AOE for those two classes they can jump into without any re-spec.

At least the 3rd place is solid - unless you join a (semi) talented Buglar, or a talented dps traited LM or OP Guardian - in which case that bronze medal might slip to a "thanks-for-participating"-pin every contestant get.

Actually, with the increased focus cost, increased inductions and after-animations, you are more likely to do less damage with a red trait line than blue.

I know that, but shhhhhhh it's a secret

Actually, Red hunters can say "hey, I've done a 4000/6000/8000!!" (My best is a 5300 in blue ^^). With RoI, I can bet hunters will prefer red traits cause:
- They can do big scores (8k? 10k?)
- They won't have problems to manage their power
- They won't have problems to manage their threat
- With only 2 blue traits, they will be near as fast as a 4/5 blue hunter.

I think i'm going to continue playing my hunter in blue but i really already regret that update...

(oh, and sorry for my english, i'm french ^^)

Turbine, please disregard all the naysayers.

I am speaking not only as someone who's been playing LOTRO since beta, but also as what I consider to be one of the "good" hunters. Moreover, as a 65 hunter who frequently swaps his traits (and stances :P), and is currently traited 4 blue/3 red, I've been tinkering with my build since day one, and the previous hunter overhaul did absolutely nothing for me. That said, this one looks to be arguably the best update to the class so far.

I am well aware of the stigma that surrounds the hunter class, and I like to think I do my part to negate such sentiment. Most of us have to deal with people constantly telling us we don't know how to play the game/we're not doing it right/etc. While there are indeed a lot of stereotypical "huntards" that seem to do all in their power to perpetuate such ideas, there are those of us that do indeed have a clue what we're doing, and that a hunter should behave differently in a fellowship than he would when flying solo.

My belief is that there are far too many people (not just hunters) who simply do not "get it." I honestly don't know where everyone gets off saying things like "this is the end of blue and yellow." Far from it, my friends. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that being completely red is detrimental to your overall potential. Set bonuses play a huge role in what traits I choose to slot, just as much as the individual traits themselves. Will I have to tinker with my build again? Sure. But I still won't have 7 bowmaster slotted.

I actually play 4 blue / 3 red too and precision stance, and on the server I am, I am one of the rare hunters like this. Most of hunters prefer red line and strenght just to see "big shots"; I don't. What I regret is that most of hunters will probably prefer red line because:
1- They will do bigger shots than others
2- They won't use more power than others
3- they won't generate more threat than others
So I am sure there will be more "huntards", as you say, and that "good hunters" like you (and me, i hope) will suffer from that.
But maybe the server you are on is at a higher level than mine, that is probably the case.

Can Hunters have a yellow trait that removes the induction of Distracting/Explosive Shot and turns it into an immediate skill? Distracting/Explosive Shot seems like a good candidate to stick our ranged interrupt. Also increases the Trapper's utility, without spreading it out to the other specs (although I'm not sure why Hunters don't have a baseline ranged interrupt).

To be honest I actually played over a year at 65 without traiting strong draw and never had any issues. I never had issues with getting focus and almost always had full focus thanks to the trait that gave extra focus with a crit. I never thought it was mandatory and I'm not a bad hunter so I think the reasons for changing it are bull.

Overall I like the changes and the idea of being able to spam Rain of Arrows is awesome.

TO: ZC
RE: Threat reduction

Please take a moment to peruse this:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-reduce-threat

If true, sounds like something that really oughta get fixed in the next update!

now for my important question:

Zombie Columbus: Do you watch chick flicks voluntarily or does your significant other drag you to them all the time?

the reason i ask is your section title "save the last stance"

i know, i know... i shouldn't recognize that... i blame my sister... it's one of her favorite movies /sigh

Sorry to act dumb, but what do you mean by the colours, red, blue etc?

Originally Posted by gadgetman2010

Sorry to act dumb, but what do you mean by the colours, red, blue etc?

That refers to the colors of the icons in the three trait lines. It's just an easier way to refer to class traits. Sort of a verbal shorthand.

Wow. Just realized I've been logged in under a trial account that I stopped using ages ago. Gotta love how you can't delete those from your launcher, eh? I'm FiveAgainst1, for the record.

Can't help but notice that people are complaining about -30s Needful Haste COOLDOWN. The update will let us use the skill more often (as often with trait...buffed skill/nerfed trait) and as long as before. Notice they did NOT mention any changes to the DURATION. In short, a hunter with Swift recovery traited will not notice any changes after the update in that regard, while those without it will be happy to use it more often.

I do not like the nerfed Strong Draw either...but it is understandable, considering with that trait and full hele set I still could not burn any focus with PS (Enduring Precision + Strong Draw + Deadly Precision = 0-1 focus cost around 70% of the time) I roll 6b/1y with Improved Fleetness, which lets me pop a QS (+1, +2, or +3 focus depending) between each PS before the CD is done.

I do not like the changes to IF either, however with the new Strong Draw...we need that extra focus generation to keep firing PS like we do, would be nice if they left Blood Arrow focus cost down (or reduced CD...10s is far too long to wait, esp as it is a power regen skill with trait).

ISotE and Earthborn I like...I fully traited that heal...and it comes to nothing, barely enough to counteract Helchgam's attack while at level 65...more morale and more power is very promising!

Suggested revision: swap the new strong draw with fast draw, keep the speed in the fast line and the damage in the boomer line.

Suggested revision 2: make IF a toggle skill with a power bleed...like the minstrel's DoT. This will make it more valuable as we don't need to remember to refresh it...and the costs can remain the same, just divided over time. Add the -10% induction (or attack duration, hard to tell which was meant) again...huntsman line is for mobility and rapid fire...bowmaster for big numbers and (now) power saving (longer inductions = fewer skills used = more power regen).

Originally Posted by Inkfinger

I'm very happy overall, no one could realistically call this a nerf. This is the perfect example of balancing a class. A few minor sacrifices, that are yes, regrettable, but understandably necessary and in the end make us stronger. Bravo to ZC for this, it's well thought out, sympathetic to our needs and adequately informative. I salute you sir, thank you for showing that you care about your players.

I quoted this response, because I agree with it completely. I, actually, just got in an argument with a friend in-game because he was being so negative about the changes and pretty much pissing and moaning about everything. I've played a hunter in many games over 20 years, it's my bread and butter class and I always start a game with a hunter. As I told my friend, in all the games I've played and every patch I've ever gone through as a hunter, this one is by far the best I've seen. Congrats and Kudos to the Dev Team.

Right before the game went link dead, my friend told me that I knew nothing about Hunters if I was happy with the changes. My response was that since I knew the Hunter class so well and could play it so well, no matter what game you throw me in, maybe that's the reason I was more optimistic.

There is only one thing I'll mention. I have to get back into the game (since I went link dead, it's back to giving me connection failure for the last 30 minutes now) to test it.. but it seems like something is not working with the focus generation. I don't think it's the precision stance.. I'm pretty sure that's working, but the trait that generates 1 focus per second (down from 8 seconds before) didn't seem to be generating any focus at all. Maybe I missed something and it was stance dependent? I don't know, but once I get back in, hopefully I'll figure it out.

Anyway, job well done on my favorite class........... My minstrel, on the otherhand, lol.. I'll have to spend more time with.. it seems all so different.

I'm not sold on the new hunter updates so far.

I had a go on one of those training dummies in Galtrev with about 3million morale.

Used my regular raid rotation which I could run in sP, sS, sE and with various trait lines depending on mood and situation; in particular the different wings in OD for either sustained icpr or dps races like the mammoths and poison wing, but also instances. Either 4B/3R, 5B/2R, 4or5R/3 or 2B. and ofc swapping in jewels and armour. PvP I used a totally different setup and also for tanking twins in BG etc.

Either way I was always able to maintain a sustained focus burn DPS with this rotation;

QS - BloodA - ISB- PS- BarbA- PS in any stance. usually only punching an intense concentration for power buff with blue trait.

I tried this on a training dummy with 5B-2R (for now It sems the best option).

In sP the rotation lasted 2min3 3secs until I fizzled out of focus
In sS its lasted only 33 secs.
I tried a random rotation and that lasted 2 mins and felt as sloppy as hell.
I didnt use intent concentration.
before ROI I could run this rotation smoothly for the longest fights.

What is worrying me is the prospect of prolonged dps output on boss fights.
I know its early days - I'm not at cap, I'm not geared and dont have all the improved skills. However my hunter now feels clunky and I'ts not clear to me what trait line I should be running for what purpose. The changes dont feel like a consistent whole so I'm just hoping that the hunter geeks post some mechanics up soon, rather than these guys who just post up how its the best update ever but without any info why. Up to now focus burn has been the heart of many a hunters build - those that actually take time to work on their builds and adapt it accordingly. I had to laugh at what a guy earleir posted that it was the best update ever (not actually saying why) but that maybe the skill that gave focus wasnt working - hello !!

I like Hunters art - but again cant see how I can fit this easily into my rotation - its requires focus.

Split Shot - is slipshod, its induction so if you hav multiple mobs on you at close range its easily interrupted. ROA & low cut are far more effective at close range. whats it for? to make us look like legolas?

yellow trait - please someone give me a reason to use this.

I would be over the moon if someone can explain to me what I'm missing it's not feeling good at the moment.

+rep Martigan, and I am going to do my tests too, trying to find a good rotation before saying this update is good/####

Originally Posted by Martigan

Either way I was always able to maintain a sustained focus burn DPS with this rotation

Sorry to hack your comment, I was trying to get a brief but important line. Focus becomes the major issue.

Clearly, the goal was to dial back our sustainable DPS output by limiting focus. I think our burst DPS is still good. And perhaps to force Precision/Huntsman (Blue)/ (and dare I say it) Fleetness use for the extra generated focus opportunity? In the suggestion thread, I added that Heartseeker, being an induction skill with long induction and long cooldown, should add focus. While you break from your regular rotation every 1 or 2 minutes to use it, a couple extra focus every minute would be nice.

It would be interesting to see how long the rotations lasted with Intent Concentration and a Focus potion. And to see how long it would last with the all of the Focus bonuses listed above.

Lastly, I note that you did not include Merciful Shot in the rotation because the Target Dummy was never below half-health. I think you're out-of-focus times would be even worse with this skill used (as it is in real fights). I know ZC expressed that he wanted MS to be a viable option versus spamming 3 Blood Arrow/Penetrating Shots with the old focus savings. I still don't think it's worth it. 2 BA/PS will still do more than Merciful Shot. Now, maybe if you've traited Swift Mercy and can get your MS focus cost down to 4 it might be worth using.

Here's my feedback after playing a bit:

1. Hunter's Art - The skill timing is way too long, especially compare to BlA and PS. It makes a rotation and timing feel very clunky. Please shorten the skill timing to make it feel smoother along with PS.

2. Split Shot - The induction is way too long. You can only have so many induction skills. Maybe this is meant as a group focused aoe addition, but it adds little to solo, duo, or small group play where I am facing multiple mobs and want aoe.

3. Focus vs Increased Damage (or Traits, Stances, and Rotation) - Maybe I haven't figured out all of my traits yet, and in the interest of full disclosure I'm testing more on my newer level 5x hunter and not my capped hunter. So I can trait to keep focus up (trait heavy blue) without hitting hard or I can hit hard (trait heavy red) and run out of focus fast. The problem is I can't hit hard enough before I run out of focus to do the job and if I keep focus up I can't hit hard enough to do the job any faster than traiting red and using S:S. In short blue with Precision doesn't have a snare and I end up hitting softer and doing melee (which does not feel buffed by the way) or I trait red, stay in S:S for the snare and run out of focus rather fast. I'll work on it more, but it feels clunky.

After reading all the class dev diaries and trying things out I get the idea that you wanted to make combat more fast and fluid than previous iterations. It makes me wonder if you all hadn't tried RIFT and got some ideas about faster more fun combat, which I think is a good thing. However, it's not working out like that for me. Even if you didn't get ideas from that game I'll say that I play both and the new combat isn't working out to be faster or offer a faster pace.

Here's the problem from my perspective: With my LotRO hunter I must choose whether to have control over the mob, speed of attack, and hitting hard. The skills don't flow together. When I play my RIFT rogue setup similar to a hunter my skills flow together and I have some control over a mob without heavily sacrificing my ability to do damage.

To make combat more fast in fluid in this game induction timers need to go down more, much more. Skill timers need to be a tiny bit shorter and way more fluid, especially with regards to after casts. Feeling like I am locked into an animation and skill, unable to move or move onto the next skill, really drags combat down from the realm of action feeling to slow and in some rotations, clunky. There shouldn't be a right or wrong rotation or a best trait setup to remove that feeling.

I do appreciate the effort and I can see light at the end of the tunnel, but it still needs a lot more work to actually get there.