Thread: Rise of Isengard: Hunter Developer Diary

Hunter's Art animation is completely out of sync with the rest of our Focus costing shots. They all have minimal animation that last a very short amount of time, but HA's animation last maybe 3-4 times that because of the raised-arm pose before firing anytime. It's breaking the flow of the rhythm.

Originally Posted by FyreBrand

Here's my feedback after playing a bit:

1. Hunter's Art - The skill timing is way too long, especially compare to BlA and PS. It makes a rotation and timing feel very clunky. Please shorten the skill timing to make it feel smoother along with PS.

2. Split Shot - The induction is way too long. You can only have so many induction skills. Maybe this is meant as a group focused aoe addition, but it adds little to solo, duo, or small group play where I am facing multiple mobs and want aoe.

3. Focus vs Increased Damage (or Traits, Stances, and Rotation) - Maybe I haven't figured out all of my traits yet, and in the interest of full disclosure I'm testing more on my newer level 5x hunter and not my capped hunter. So I can trait to keep focus up (trait heavy blue) without hitting hard or I can hit hard (trait heavy red) and run out of focus fast. The problem is I can't hit hard enough before I run out of focus to do the job and if I keep focus up I can't hit hard enough to do the job any faster than traiting red and using S:S. In short blue with Precision doesn't have a snare and I end up hitting softer and doing melee (which does not feel buffed by the way) or I trait red, stay in S:S for the snare and run out of focus rather fast. I'll work on it more, but it feels clunky.

I agree with points 1 and 3 in all respects...however I have found 2 aspects of Hunters art that may save the skill yet: The first is that the finesse buff is HUGE...the second factor is that you can use it on the move, which for me is also a big deal (many blues...like to kite).

About the second point...I would say that this is good for 2 things...trying to aggro a very small group of mobs that do not aggro together (solo/small group play) the other is that we can now have more AoE for getting aggro off healers if needed...even if we lack focus at the moment.

The third point: I roll lots of blues and I find no lack of dps there...and lots of blues don't need to use melee to get a shot off at close range (which is why I use them). Also, try rolling 5b + legendary cap with barbed hinderance (yellow)...makes a huge difference in dps while at range.

Darth_Carl makes a good observation on hunter thread. hope you dont mind me quoting you Carl :P

"Old parses where showing PS equalling around 30% of our total DPS, PS + BA was around 50% total.

We've just seen our Focus costs for these t2 skills jump 50%, that means they've lost roughly a third of their contribution, (prior to any increases in focus generation being factored in), or around 16% of our total DPS just went away. Where getting a fair bit back via better Focus generation in Precishion, IQS, and potentiolly higher Crit chances, but you need endgame gear for that."

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...s-been-changed

I dont care much, guys, about focus sustainability. Few inductions like QS (with high crit probabilty fixed by my LI legacies) repairs quickly focus balance. What I am concerned is not a smoothest skill rotation but real dps - bringing max damage per shortest time. That's what is important for hunter as DPS class.
My biggest disapointment is that Strength Stance was nerfed by introduction of a higher percentage of misses. In practical terms, i do not see dps difference between S:S and S:P. In the first case we have more damaging shots, but more misses, in S:P we have less damaging but bigger precision. So, current expansion made S:S useless, and I do not see why it is longer needed.
And I would also support Martigan in his criticism of those who cheerfuly hails this update without giving himself a smallest try to explain why.
And I would also support words that some new hunters skills like splitshot are useless in current revision and are just a trash. {sorry devs, you'd better invite me to prior isen testing and these comments wouldn't be disclosed as under NDA}
But even after that above, and frankly speaking, there are more startling thingies in that expansion - how do you like levelling from 66 to 75 without actually any significant improvement of morale and power? Is it experience? No. No way. It is just points to access new weps and armours and few new skills. Why then call it levelling? Why then introducing those '66-75' at all?

I've tried to make Strength Stance work but apart from switching to it to pop off heart-seeker Precision is so much better. And as you point out - it is the only way to avoid the large increase in misses. Heartshot misses so often, when its tooltip says unequivocally it never misses, it's not funny.

Split Shot is the single most useless joke of a skill in the game and Hunter's Art serves no purpose in practice apart from alerting the enemy that you're about to shoot so they better start charging if you try and take advantage of its buff at the start of the fight.

I have not got the Improved Quick Shot yet so don't know how that will affect Focus but so far Precision Stance is the only way I can get a decent rotation not strangled by the new focus throttle.

There's a lot to like about ROI but the two redundant new skills combined with the focus throttle stop this from being a completed hunter revamp. Split Shot is beyond redemption unless you gave it the power of two quick shots and the ability to hit both on one target. HA needs no induction and no after effect. And Heart Shot needs to do what it says on the tin. Never miss.

Also some way needs to be found to ease up on the focus throttle to make strength stance viable.

As for levelling - we're not. In the face of increased vulnerability and misses and the nerfing of strength stance we're clawing our way back to where we were.

Not saying it isn't fun or that there's not a lot to like in the build flexibility the new stats and items approach give though.

hmm. i am NOT liking the changes to the hunter's class abilities one bit. prior to RoI, i had to trait some blue lines items (at the behest of a rather misinformed f/ship leader who insisted my red line traits were not good enough for the run ).

the thing i loved about doing that was how it reduced all of my shot inductions to almost nil. i was able to fire off salvos at such speed that i could drop mobs before they got to me. not only that, but these traits also reduced the focus cost of my shots, which was extremely beneficial when taking on bosses or multiple mobs solo. after RoI, i'm right back to the same inductions and focus costs as i was before retraiting, and although the blue line traits say otherwise, actual in-game experience is showing that the class has been screwed.

i still love playing my hunter, but he was more enjoyable before the expansion.

i also agree on some of the new skills being worthless. split-shot is a joke. there was that other new skill that i'm forgetting the name of at the moment, that was supposed to attune to whatever i was fighting or something like that; it's equally useless. the ONLY skill i enjoy is the improved penetrating shot removing the cooldown. only bad thing is that without receiving the focus bonuses on crit shots that my blue traits suggest i should be getting, i burn through 2 focus instead of 1.

with the changes, i find myself more in endurance stance only because it actually generates focus much in the same way fervour generates pips for a champion. i don't really use strength any longer because it doesn't offer any benefit to do so and i use precision when i don't want arrows consistently missing on shots that should not be, especially against lower level mobs. reading about how heart seeker is missing when the description says it should never miss is disconcerting.

thanks for ruining a really fun class and making us even more squishy than we already were.

While I agree my focus doesnt stay up like it used to, S:S is still working fine with me. I will focus and hit Heart seeker and 9/10 times either 1 shot or almost 1 shot mobs 2-3 levels above me. I have missed a couple times but not enough to care. You can stack the new buff also split shot has been fun being up to 6 targets its just another viable aoe option to help dwindle peeps. It isnt going to cause aggro problems which is nice and it gives focus.

I have to agree with some of the others about S:S and focus. If your aim was to make the class less enjoyable to play you(Turbine) have succeeded. S:S is pretty useless now with all the missing... and focus is another pain to maintain now. Will be testing the RK this week... hope you didn't mess this class up to much.

PS: Next time you want to mess with classes please just make new classes and leave the classes we love alone. Just think you can make more money that way and we all win then IMO.

just wait until u have more finesse and crit also we are leveling with mostly higher level mobs. give it time.

Feels like a nerf to enable a better PvMP experience for creeps to me. Same with some of the other class changes I've seen. Removing the Heartseekers ability to crit for 10k or more at times is obviously aimed at creep players, as the PVE mobs wouldn't complain about it, some of them have far more morale than any creep can reach.

I really didn't think they'd do it, but since they opened up the creep play to f2p players and sell store items for them, I'm not surprised we all get nerf bats. My character is not as powerful as before, so that qualifies any changes as a nerf in my book.

I just changed my bow yesterday, at level 75 and, strangely, I don't see any difference. Same deeds, same relics, +30dps, but almost same damage on mobs...
However, my hunter is much more fragile than before and also his power run away faster than before... I tried with my 65 and 75 stuff but it is the same.

So, to resume, a hunter from 65 before RoI and 75 after RoI:
- equal DPS
- less resistance
- more power consumption

Well Done!

Originally Posted by Stif

I just changed my bow yesterday, at level 75 and, strangely, I don't see any difference. Same deeds, same relics, +30dps, but almost same damage on mobs...
However, my hunter is much more fragile than before and also his power run away faster than before... I tried with my 65 and 75 stuff but it is the same.

So, to resume, a hunter from 65 before RoI and 75 after RoI:
- equal DPS
- less resistance
- more power consumption

Well Done!

Yes. We basically have to fight our way back to a semblance of competence and now have to trade off morale and power for the dps needed to try and compete with the new Super-Classes. At L65 I could breeze through T3 L65 skirmishes. Now t2 L75 skirmishes can be problematic, especially if they involve npc's who don't seem to have scaled (except in their suicidal stupidity).

At L75 the 'cannot miss or be B/P/E' Heart-seeker still misses even with finesse up to the wazoo. And Split Shot is absolutely useless while Hunter's Art is of extremely limited utility.

The hunter has not been improved. It is at best 'different'. The power and focus nerfs certainly make it more clunky and running in anything but a precision build is pointless so there is even less variety.

What it needs is:

An easing up on the focus/power choke. It's gone too far and narrows the viable builds.
Something useful to replace Joke-Shot
Something done to make Hunters Art functional.

I'm running with a couple of raid pieces plus all-crafted gear and the best jewellery gold can buy plus fully levelled 3rd agers. But it's like trying to run an F1 race in an F3 car nowadays. Sure you can get big dps - so long as nothing gives you so much as a harsh look.

I played a little yesterday and I can confirm the DPS is not really higher at L75.
It is very funny to see that, besides the differences in 10 levels, I don't think my hunter has powered up.
From L65 to L75, Agility raised from 644 to 997 (~30%), Bow' DPS from 84,5 to 118 (~30%), and damages on mobs are raised at max 10% at the moment...

Not happy at all with this new hunter...

Originally Posted by Stif

I played a little yesterday and I can confirm the DPS is not really higher at L75.
It is very funny to see that, besides the differences in 10 levels, I don't think my hunter has powered up.
From L65 to L75, Agility raised from 644 to 997 (~30%), Bow' DPS from 84,5 to 118 (~30%), and damages on mobs are raised at max 10% at the moment...

Not happy at all with this new hunter...

To be fair - with AG up to 1300+ - you can see significant dps improvements. The trouble is you pay heavily for it in terms of morale and power. buffing up with gear helps mitigate a lot of factors but the bottom line remains - with two limited to useless new skills, the general protection nerf on medium armour that is also hitting wardens and an imposed focus choke hunters have not been improved.

At the same time Captains, Champions, RK's and to a significant extent minstrels have been elevated to near demi-god status with their improvements.

While some of the hunter changes are nice this has been a Fail of an upgrade leaving us significantly worse off against on level challenges than we were. Which is not a complaint I hear from any other class in my Kin.

And can anyone spot the missing bit in the Patch Notes?

'1.2.9. Hunters: Heart Shot fixed. Joke-Shot replaced by something less comically useless (maybe by the targets stopping to point and laugh for 5 seconds when we use it?). More changes to follow with update 2.'

I think that Split-Shot is a good idea...just they failed to make it powerful enough. If they were to up the DPS on it and cut the power cost (dps should be = RoA, power cost ~3/5 RoA).
As for HS, I almost never use it...It costs way too much power and only does as much dps as my swiftbow on most occasions (despite 1300 agi, I rarely see HS crit...while I usually get a triple devastate with swiftbow opener).
Hunters art...they nerfed the stances then added a skill that has a huge power cost for us to get back to where we used to be. They should add the current benefits of Hunters Art back to the stances, cut the power cost, and make it be a more useful buff. Like HA prevents setback in S stance, allows inductions while moving in P stance, and....{someone who rolls trapper should fill this in} maybe reset CC abilities? This would of course require a longer CD so that one cannot chain the benefits indefinitely...I am thinking 30s CD for 10s buff, enough to be useful but not so much to be OP.

Of course, they could always just put things back the way they were...I miss 45s duration on needful haste and shorter CD on Intent Concentration (which killed my power-regen rotation...now I actually have to have power pots in addition to all 3 power-regen abilities and Bow of the Righteous to keep fighting)

Merciful Shot needs to be buffed (since it seems that corruptions have been phased out after level 65), Blood Arrow needs a shorter cooldown, Hunter's Art needs an overhaul, Stances need to go back to full potency, Split shot needs to be buffed or removed, Heart seeker needs to be buffed (go back to 5min CD and double the damage) and with more time I could probably come up with some more.

It's a choice now. You can get around 2000 Agility and beyond while retaining 5000 Morale with the new teal gear. This suffices for anything whenever you want to fulfill your role as DD in pve. You can slot for crit or offence which could get you either 25.000 ROR or over 10.000 Crit rating. (Buffed of course)

You will kill 14k - 16k Orcs in Isengard before they reach you. You are able to three shot 7k npc trash. solo. The Focus buff is that strong for solo questing.

And around 2000 Agility you can go pure IQS spam to outdps most champs and burglars (especially those who are not willing to have 2000 might / agi themselves). For emphasis *You are not using any focus skills or ISB at all*.


If you gear for it, you are second to none. Seeing how you choose "survivability" over damage around 1300 agility and the lack of gear (i know this one is not by choice!), it comes to no surprise that you think the hunter performs bad. When you compared your hunter to a burg, did you consider they got only 1300 agi themselves, quest-gear or full teal, did they have 2nd age lvl75 weapons (Huuuge difference!!).

I'm not saying gearing for survivability is bad, it seems most are but far off the sweetspot and should understand equipping 5 pieces of pure morale and vit jewelry, traiting virtues with resistance and moral they are not going to be delivering top tier dps anymore. This accounts for burgs as much as for champs, wardens and guards and RKs. Those got it even worse since they don't get the crit rates up and past 22% being might based.

This will take a lot of time....




I agree on the split shot and hunter's arts being next to useless because they are unpractical and in the case of split shot just don't deal enough damage to be a "choice".

I don't like hunters art because it tends to initiate combat before a shot has been fired
the focus cost is too high and the duration too short so you have to add it into your focus rotation if you
expect to keep it up. Just add it to the buff you get for drawing focus or to the relative stance, the skill is just too intrusive compared to its benefit. At the very least just make it not an attack. I'd like a longer, more potent benefit, with no focus cost, and a reasonable cooldown, five minutes or so would be good I think.

Split shot I haven't played around with too much and that says something in its self, I havent found a scenario where I thought to myself, "hm, if only I had a long induction shot that did mediocre damage to two targets at once, this fight would be so much better..." sorry but no. My opinion is the hunter needs less inductions, not more.

Infinite Rain of Arrows is a lot of fun
As is machine gun Piercing Shot.

We're too squishy.

Thats all I've got for now

Agreed with everyone, Split Shot and Hunters Art are flawed.
More onto the changes to old skills, one change no one addresses because no hunters used it, new Fleetness kinda still doesn't help hunters as much as it could as compared to say burn hot. I used fleet because it was interesting, challenging and it set me apart from other hunters in that I could actually help in a raid. No more induction reduction for a small focus bonus? There was never any need for focus or inductions while fleeting, you auto attacked and BA'd everyone in a while. If anything, perhaps allowing inductions while running would be the best option. In the end, fleet allowed a hunter to off-tank, one of the few useful roles other than average DPS it can play in a raid now-a-days. I'm not saying I loved the old fleet, I'm saying why make pointless changes to it? Barely anyone used it, I never met another hunter in Riddermark who did, and that is the problem, it's complex nature outweighs it's positives. Replace it with something useful like has been suggested, a stealth skill that doesn't suck (ex movement or an instigating combat from stealth auto crit), improved survivability/dps, or even as I mentioned, allow induction while moving during fleet. Let's at least level the playing field; we're not asking to be put back on top as overpowered nukers again, we want to be able to pull our own weight. Others will claim that when properly traited/equiped/etc hunters can still dish out the highest dps, but the average traited/equiped hunter is worse of than the average traited/equiped Champ, Mini, RK, etc.
Quite simply, I'll never stop playing my hunter, he was my first toon and hooked me onto lotro. But it just isn't the same playing him any more. I understand hunter is a "basic" class, but things like fleetness allowed those who wanted to, to make it complex. Now it feels like since we are the most numerous class, since we had swift travel skills, since we have range over the other classes, we are being punished in the end game; I would never suggest this was the intent, but that's the way it feels.

On a side note, I agree with previous posts that pets would not be a good idea for the hunter, we don't need pets, we need counters to stuns, dazes, and our own mediocre dps. I would be open to the idea of aesthetic pets, but you then have every class running around with turtles, bunnies etc, cluttering the game. Perhaps it would be better to leave pets to the LMs and Cappys

Originally Posted by kyrelenblackstone

Looks great! Can't wait to test this out, but still VERY sad Camoflage didn't get looked at. It's a dead skill that I've never seen the use of, because the minute you move that's it you're suddenly visible again. I had kinda hoped to see an Advanced Camoflage beyond 65 that would be usable if you walked...

Disagree completely, camo is one of my most used skills, very useful for the moors

Originally Posted by Jessy82

Disagree completely, camo is one of my most used skills, very useful for the moors

Agreed, camo is frequently used by me too.

What ISN'T used, is the Elf Stealth, which is pretty ####. And now that the Elf bonus mitigation to poisons has been removed by the merging of all defence skills, I would like to see the Elf stealth and Parry buff skills replaced with something that is actually useful, ala the hobbit flop or man heal.

Maybe a +bonus physical and tactical mitigation instead of the stealth. And a evade skill similar to the BA's?

Originally Posted by SungXe

I'm not saying gearing for survivability is bad, it seems most are but far off the sweetspot and should understand equipping 5 pieces of pure morale and vit jewelry, traiting virtues with resistance and moral they are not going to be delivering top tier dps anymore. This accounts for burgs as much as for champs, wardens and guards and RKs. Those got it even worse since they don't get the crit rates up and past 22% being might based.

Yes. We understand that. i don't know why you keep banging on about it in various posts. We understand it perfectly. We just don't agree that our class should have been so battered around the head with the nerf bat that we have to nerf our morale even further just to keep up with the super-classes.

So - to reprise - yes we understand. And no, we don't like it.

Originally Posted by Kongas

Yes. We understand that. i don't know why you keep banging on about it in various posts. We understand it perfectly. We just don't agree that our class should have been so battered around the head with the nerf bat that we have to nerf our morale even further just to keep up with the super-classes.

So - to reprise - yes we understand. And no, we don't like it.

For someone who fails according to himself to be capable to utilize the new stats and which you actually do try to make an issue out of the hunter class in every thread in the hunter's forum till today -you seem keen to reply to a post from mid October.


http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...A-guide-for-ZC
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...nhappy-hunters

etc.

oh and your POST today.
Hypocrite much? So how is this personal agenda tingy working out for you? Still issues with Post DATES?
Maybe someone need to remind you on the forum policy?

How about contributing to a topic, you know? I mean i enjoy your attempts to troll me, but well it gets boring.

I don't know why do people complain about DPS so much. My DPS is amazing now. Survivabilty is not so great, but it's not that bad either. All medium armor classes are on same with that one, and i hope they will do something about that...

Overall, things are not so bad as some say...

Originally Posted by electric.shepherd

I don't know why do people complain about DPS so much. My DPS is amazing now. Survivabilty is not so great, but it's not that bad either. All medium armor classes are on same with that one, and i hope they will do something about that...

Overall, things are not so bad as some say...

I haven't had much issue with survivability. The Moors may be a problem for Hunters as they're the only consistent target for Creeps who will drop any effort to kill another class if a Hunter arrives on scene. I still don't understand why almost every other class has some manner of emergency skill in the Moors but Hunters. If we had an evade skill similar to that of Blackarrows it would make PvMP a tad more fun. It might force Creeps to make a tougher decision as to who they want to target instead of it being a no-brainer.

Originally Posted by vegravolin

I still don't understand why almost every other class has some manner of emergency skill in the Moors but Hunters.

We had Desperate Flight as an emergency skill, but that was disabled in combat some time ago now. I guess creeps didn't like hunters vanishing in mid fight, even though the cool down was 1 hour.

Lol I love how hunters are still without a defensive cooldown of any use.

This class is pretty good ranged dps and used to have survivability in pve as its perk. Without that it may as well be a rune keeper but without the healing or secondary role.

Hunters are the worst class to bring into the Moors unless you are with a raid or a masochist.

I would like to use strength of the earth in move, if you is moving loss focus. This give us more survival.

In my honest opinion, RoI Hunter is now broken compared to the Hunter I wanted to play years ago at launch.

This pitiful class is a mere shadow of what it once was. It was crippled by Moria, then thrown a carrot later only to have said carrot snatched away and to be beaten by the stick of RoI.

If Hunter had been like this at launch, most hunters would have ceased playing the character around L20 and rolled something else. All the fun has been sucked out of it. Is there something wrong with letting people actually have FUN in a GAME?

Only liars, or people who've not been around long enough, say the class is fine now...

I keep hoping that ONE DAY an MMO will come along whose devs are capable of balancing the game without the use of the nerfbat. It is a false hope, because buffing something else to bring it into line is obviously too hard for them.

Don't you just love it when they fixed the double stacking of Fleetness but Strength of the Earth has been bugged for months and they ignored it. Fix the problems that benefit the players, leave the ones that harm them.

Similarly I would hardly call Press Onward a LEGENDARY skill.

When will ZC realise that this skill can be our survival button, since every other class has one. No induction, a flat percentage increase, and instant on the move. Hunters need survivability, more than any other class.

Originally Posted by Gelidite

Lol I love how hunters are still without a defensive cooldown of any use.

This class is pretty good ranged dps and used to have survivability in pve as its perk. Without that it may as well be a rune keeper but without the healing or secondary role.

Hunters are the worst class to bring into the Moors unless you are with a raid or a masochist.

You kidding, right?

Hunter is one of the best class at the Moors. Best burst DPS in the game, at extreme range. Fair mitigations, and can easily shoot while moving (fleet stance ftw). RKs are probably the worst class in the Moors due its squishyness, lack of range, and not DPS enough to compensate it.

NOTE: i don´t say that hunters should stay as they are. Atm they have great DPS, but maybe the CC traits could get a bit improved. But in the moors, they´re the kings ... or would be, if minstrels didn´t exist.

I agree that hunters need more survivability...but I have noticed that (when fighting mobs with 0 finesse) my evade makes up for lack of morale or defensive skills, I am rocking 5.5k morale and nearing 1700 agi...and I can tank fang T1 without issue due to my P/E. (what can't hit you can't hurt you) Also, I am loving how easy it is to get and maintain agro if there is no tank (not getting agro if there is one is sometimes an issue)...but all the med armour classes need the medium armour mitigation rate to go back to what it was (I have talked to burgs and wardens, they are both struggling either with low morale, burg; or with low survivability even with high morale, warden). give us back our mitigation!

This is so funny and hypocritical. Make a forum thread for comments about hunters changes and not even take them into consideration after 7 months. We have asked for better changes and 7 months latter they still haven't made a post (ZC/Turbine) except to close our threads to petition their dishonorable actions (aka doing nothing and ignoring us) and treatment of their loyal hunter customers. I can go on for a little longer but with no changes but i might have to shelf my hunter for a while like so many players if turbine/ZC doesn't do something. Im pretty good as hunters go (only been playing for 2+ years, with almost 2 months play time on my hunter alone) but there is still a gap between all the class of middle earth and hunters that no matter of ability can not span.

I didn't make this post to be mean but to lay down the facts and to try and show Turbine how sad and unloved the Hunters feel. This post also does not contain the dozens of problems and changes that hunters need and if you want those, please drop by any of the thousands of forum posts by people who are better at numbers and talking then me.

Originally Posted by Legonist

I didn't make this post to be mean but to lay down the facts and to try and show Turbine how sad and unloved the Hunters feel. This post also does not contain the dozens of problems and changes that hunters need and if you want those, please drop by any of the thousands of forum posts by people who are better at numbers and talking then me.

Are you jealous because a Warden can fight against 10 creeps in Ettenmoors, at the same time; and still survive while killing them?

You should be, because some Turbine developers have no grasp of reality when it comes to balancing the classes against each other. They will develop one class to the point of extreme - and be proud of it. They don't care about balance as such, they just want us to purchase items from the store - which we need if we are fighting against the infamous 'class of the month'.

Certain developers have a nasty, very nasty, habit of "improving" a class to heaven and hell, what I mean by that is they implement the changes that they think are good (which is perfectly fine, they are developers after all), but they fail completely in testing the balance between the class being updated, against the other, already existing classes.

Turbine has recently gotten into a very sad state of mind and perform their class updates using morale bubbles for instance. This is, in my opinion of course, not only very lore-breaking, but it is also a sign of the lack of imagination the developers have during their development cycle.

Example 1:

Problem: Developer A has a task to increase survivability for the champion class. He sits down and brainstorm with himself how it is possible to make the class last for longer during combat, while still maintaining some damage-dealing ability.

Solution: Give the champion a glowing green-bubble summoned from thin air (or by a magician) and remove his heavy shield.

Example 2:

Problem: Developer B has the task to increase survivability for the minstrel class. Now he needs to find a feasibly solution to make the minstrel a boon companion in a fellowship, while still performing well as a solo player.

Solution: Give the minstrel a glowing green-bubble summoned from thin air (or by a magician) that he can put on himself, or anyone around him.

Example 3:

Problem: Developer C has the task to make the rune-keeper a viable healer for any circumstance, be it raid or fellowship.

Solution: Give the rune-keeper a glowing green-bubble summoned from thin air (or by a magician) that he can put on himself, or everyone around him.

But back to the point; What really kills the Hunter as a class, is the induction time for most of its skills. Since there is no way to omit induction for a Hunter, he is basically dead once there are 2 or more enemies attacking him due to interrupted inductions - and this is, in my opinion, where a Hunter totally fails.

In recent updates, enemies are using unique skills such as interruptions, disarms and stuns. So for a hunter, things are getting worse, much worse.

The survivability for the hunter class is non-existent at the moment compared to Rune-keepers, Minstrels, Burglars, Captains, Champions, Guardians and Wardens. And NO! hunters should not be given a ridiculous, glowing pink-bubble just because you are not creative enough to think of other ways to solve your problems.

hmm, my main is a hunter i have absolutely no problems outsurviving minnies or runekeepers,
i dont feel my skills are sub par anyone when im fulfilling my role.

big question i think is what do you want your role to be :-)

im build around parry evade with a meagre mitigation around 30%
but using my skills correct i get both parry and evade bit over 20% thats a lot of damage avoided
perhaps hunter players need to focus more on the hunters role, because playing through isengaard great river area felt like a walkthrough.

combination of cc and high dps really let you do a lot, and you can in reality do long fights without using any induction skills at all.

perhaps a few people should try to look at the possible different ways of playing their class :-)

Arakor
laurelin

Originally Posted by lutemaster

And NO! hunters should not be given a ridiculous, glowing pink-bubble just because you are not creative enough to think of other ways to solve your problems.

Quoted to repeat sad truth.


...but I bet most hunters would be thankful even for this.

Originally Posted by jonkold

hmm, my main is a hunter i have absolutely no problems outsurviving minnies or runekeepers,
i dont feel my skills are sub par anyone when im fulfilling my role.

Where?

Originally Posted by jonkold

but using my skills correct i get both parry and evade bit over 20% thats a lot of damage avoided

Finesse.

Originally Posted by jonkold

Perhaps hunter players need to focus more on the hunters role...

I wonder what role is that. Right now we can barely fulfill one, assuming our tank is above average or pretend we are equally useful in such role (a.k.a ridiculous self-nerf) if that is not the case. Or die. Fast. Other roles are at landscape-reality level, perhaps few t1 3-mans consistently. Might as well be just one then, doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by jonkold

perhaps a few people should try to look at the possible different ways of playing their class :-)

We did. They are worth less and less with the way content AND class are designed, save from few special places. Oh, and those special places usually induce less headache without overly elaborate CC scheme anyway.

Again, landscape reality has no specific "role". In most cases inductions are not even necessary. In special cases two or three more skills we get rather early are enough. It is the same with any other class. It is not an issue. Take a look at class forum if you want to know what is.

To the hunters wanting more defence:

If you want all the advantages without any of the disadvantages, roll a minstrel.


The end.

Originally Posted by jonkold

hmm, my main is a hunter i have absolutely no problems outsurviving minnies or runekeepers,
i dont feel my skills are sub par anyone when im fulfilling my role.

Arakor
laurelin

You must know some really awful Runekeepers and Minstrels, particularly minnies but even RKs, which can slow enemies, and DPS on the run, and given a very slight breather afforded by a mezz writ themselves a heal in combat or bubble as escape with loss of the ability to DPS. Minstrels of course, universally considered OP, I don't know any that don't think so but I'm sure there are some....however I'm fine with that, I don't PvMP and when we have a minstrel in group they do the job I need while I get to do mine, there is little point commenting on the ills of the hunter, all I can say is solo it's still a lot of fun, and challenging on bigger mobs---raiding..not without it's uses our DPS is OK although a QK Burg brings a bit more to the table as does a well played RK, which mostly I'm fine with too.

Everything is OK, not particularly well conceived or thought out, our new skills (split shot and Hunters art) in RoI are not even on my skillbar, just tucked away..I suppose in skirmishes I use split a bit, but still they are possibly the most pointless skill creations to date.. with the Faron set I can solo improved focus up run without loss of focus for 30 secs and hit PS/BA till the cows come in..it's pew pew 101, though not exactly exciting, just watch your timer in improved fleet CD and make sure 6 focus is available when it comes up, pew pew pew, or pooh pooh pooh, hard to tell which.

When I think of the hunter that was and what is, I feel...underwhelmed. Still that's why Turbine gave us alts and a store to grind TP for.

so sad to see people so full of their own "i know it all elitism" that they think that if people have a different opinion they must be stupid.


look through more posts than just those supporting your own opinion

you will see an equal share of pro and con post for most classes.

if you cant handle changes and still fulfill your role, perhaps you are not good enough to adapt :-)

:-)

im pretty content with both my runkeeper, my captain and my hunter, all have flaws and good points.
the challenge is making good use of the strengths and compensate for the flaws.

and challenges is what make gaming fun

arakor
Laurelin

Originally Posted by jonkold

they think that if people have a different opinion they must be stupid.

Less interested with your opinion, more with the way you support it. Or - more appropriately - don't. Properly supported ones are worth consideration. The rest - not so much. I like ice-cream. Yay, opinion.

Originally Posted by jonkold

so sad to see people so full of their own "i know it all elitism"

Oh perhaps you mean:

"if you cant handle changes and still fulfill your role, perhaps you are not good enough to adapt :-)"

"im pretty content with both my runkeeper, my captain and my hunter, all have flaws and good points."

Ie: general statements with assumption "everyone knows what I am talking about, because it is... well, truth". No examples. No elaborating.

Simple questions: Where?
Simple issues: Finesse.

Answer? Silence or generalisation. Useless pinch of ad personam.

Originally Posted by jonkold

the challenge is making good use of the strengths and compensate for the flaws.
and challenges is what make gaming fun

Ad absurdum version: using keyboard with my feet is also a challenge. Dealing with design flaws is not challenge - it is... dealing with design flaws. Tanking multiple mobs as hunter used to be sort-of challenge. Self-nerfing dps because class lacks viable countermeasures *comparable to other classes WITH comparable dps* is not a challenge. Praying that feared mob will run in desired direction is not either.


Again, landscape doesn't count. It is designed with safety margins so big that any class even with awfully sub-level gear can deal with any issue with slight differences in certain difficult spots.