Thread: Rise of Isengard: Lore-master Dev Diary Feedback

No to Limrafn. They are not lore appropriate. Have the compromises you made with RuneKeepers so addled your minds that you expect us to believe that it is okay for a Loremaster to be a necromancer too? Same thing for burglars being able to riddle trees and spiders. I suppose next we'll see hunters being allowed to walk on water?

Why can't the new pet be a honey badger???

The Keeper of Animals:

Additional 3-set bonus: -5 seconds from the cooldown of “Knowledge of Cures”.
Additional 4-set bonus: -1 minute from the cooldown of “Inner Flame”.
The traits “Master of Beasts” and “The Wild and Ward” have been combined.
The traits “Hardy Companion” and “Beast-lore” have been combined.
NEW trait “Improved Inner Flame” allows the skill to affect all nearby fellowship members.
NEW trait “Improved Flanking” allows the target of your “Air-lore” skill to also receive the benefits of your Flanked! heals.

How will the threat transfer work for the imp inner fire version?

personnally I always wondered what the KoA line was for tanking or healing?
maybe both depending of traits choice but it always feeled ackward to me, and inneficient as a off-tank or healer,

I still think that it should require a threat transfer to the pet that isnt a channeled heal with 3 or 2 min CD.

Look to me more like a panic aggro transfer from fellowship to pet and healing at same time, still I need to know if the Imp Inner fire threat transfer work on the fellows aswell.

Originally Posted by jeanperson

How will the threat transfer work for the imp inner fire version?

It doesn't. It simply turns Inner Flame to a Fellowship wide heal, no threat transferred at all.

These all sound wonderful but the one skill I still and always will contend needs to be made group effect is SI!!!! Even if it is only a group effect. Even with havingin the skill lengthened on the book with the Leg on top of CC, Debuffing, passing power, drawing power ect ect .. The Lm has to stop everything to apply SI to all persons in contact with stunning Monsters. I would Gladly trait anything to have SI group effect =))

Just my Humble opinion =)
Always
Minye of Firefoot

Does the devs ever read this thread, I wonder.
Anyway there's a couple of things that just walked in my head.
First - a rez changes.
Remove a debuff? Well, it's not bad (but I loved this thing, is so atmospheric).
Remove a need for weed? Awful. (Is that a plan to completely remove a pipeweed from the game, devs? Nobody needs it anyway!)
And... increase rez distance to 25 meters?! That's completely crazy. Just try to breathe for 25 meters and you'll understand.
Just let it be. Please. Our rez is good enough for me. Concentrate on something else. Make our class items - books - visible on a char (hanging from the side, for example) - I dreamed it since I create my LM. It's so wide field for new ideas.

And this new pet, fellow lim... You know, it looks just fine, yes (spoooooky glowing ball of myyyyyystic light!) but... It's agaist the lore (what has been said in this thread), it's completely unbalanced, it's completely useless. Its skills are bullsh... well you know. It may be quite good. It might have a Hope-giving aura, an ICMR aura, a distraction aura... but flank SKILL with 1m CD? And no autoattack? I beg you reconsider.

Looks like we are completely ignored. Either
1. Rask works hard to deliver us real pet with useful skills, so he doesn't have time to answer
or
2. They are done with us. We got new pet, no matter it's lore breaking and its skills are useless, like it or not, no discussion.

Anyway this lack of information makes me nervous. I really hate the idea I'll log in after update and find out we really got that thing instead of some animal as we (as keepers of the animals) should.
/ looking into the future with fear

<polite cough>

I can't help but notice that we still appear to have a little bit of glowing blob with us...

(Pardon my ignorance - is it just a temporary thing? Or did testers decide it was ok in the end? I'm a bit confused as to why it wasn't changed, I got the impression that this was one of the most universally hated items, but perhaps I got the wrong idea. Maybe its actually quite good in practice? <hopeful smile>).

I thing we need a reduce to our inductions time.
A lot of things are hitting fast and this make our DPS go down a lot when being hit.
And with this uber diminishing CC returns, we can't make all that CC in the way that nothing touch us for land inductions.
Things are touching us now, the inductions time need a revamp.

Other problem is the new pet, it is cosmetically?? It dont have an objective good function.
Make the pet get a skill that remove all the penalties diminishing CC returns, so we land more stuns to compensate.
Make the pet auto attack.
And make the heal a lot better.

Originally Posted by Advanced

I thing we need a reduce to our inductions time.

OR maybe a consumable like RK's inlays. OR a stance that will give us a chance to ignore interruption.

Originally Posted by Kantor_omicron

OR maybe a consumable like RK's inlays. OR a stance that will give us a chance to ignore interruption.

For me setbacks are bothering me more than interruptions, because interruptions don't happens a lot, but all hit setbacks our skills, this is annoying. Maybe a instance that prevents setbacks/reduce inductions.

Any one used the Lymf yet? whats it actually like? i mean in combat wise etc, not looks. I think we covered that lol.

Please let me know.

Originally Posted by Advanced

For me setbacks are bothering me more than interruptions, because interruptions don't happens a lot, but all hit setbacks our skills, this is annoying. Maybe a instance that prevents setbacks/reduce inductions.

Well, yeah, setbacks are annoying. Reduced inductions should do the trick, I think. Maybe a passive skill... or stance... or ranged slot item.
RK's may unleash their, uh, runespells on the move, also does minnies. We had to stand and wave our staves, still having much less DPS. And this limrafn. I think devs just dont like us LMs.

I'm pretty happy with the LM changes overall. Be nice to have more, but that's always the case. The one exception to my relative happiness is our new "Spirit of Nature" pet. Who green-lit this thing? The idea for a healing support pet is good, but the execution is... lacking. The thing doesn't auto-attack! A pet that doesn't auto-attack doesn't flank. And a pet that doesn't flank is completely useless. Especially as a healing pet! Giving it a skill that lets it force-flank once a minute, ONCE A MINUTE!!!, is not an acceptable substitute for combat flanks, which can come as fast as 3-4 in a minute. And the nature spirit's other powers do not even come close to making up for this. Revealing mark for half a minute every one minute? So... half a revealing mark? Either increase the percentage return drastically, or make it a toggle, or both. And the sacrifice power? Yes, I realize it's fellowship wide, but 10% is too low, especially if it costs you your pet. Especially since if you want combat summoning to get it back, you'll have to have the bog-lurker traited anyway, and it heals for a lot more!

The main thing though, it needs some form of auto-attack to generate flanks. Having a force flank skill in your back pocket is nice, but if this thing can't generate flanks any other way then no one will use it.

Originally Posted by Varonel

<polite cough>

Pardon my ignorance - is it just a temporary thing?

I'm inclined to say that, one way or another, the Limarfn is a temporary thing.


In regards to Inductions... that is what I'm liking the least about the LM class. I rolled one, intending it to be my Main on a new server (moved to be with friends) except... I'm not really feeling it. My non-main characters are keeping pace with my LM level-wise. As was said, RKs get a consumable to ignore induction knockback, as do Minis. I'm inclined to say that LMs need something too. If not reduced inductions, then something that allows us to prevent induction knockback.

I have noticed the removal of skills and needing to make some skill rotation adjustments. I've also noticed that I'm having to wait on CDs more because I've gone through all my available skills.

Part of this I'm sure is due to the fact that I'm not at the level cap and don't have all the skills yet.

Just checking to see what they're going to replace the Limarfn with...

Agree on most that has been said. When I play it feels like either my computer suddenly got slow (which isn't the case after I checked) or the mobs attack speed increased, but everything my lore-master does in Dunland seems to be so slow. I blame it on lag for now, but seeing that others noticed it too, I have a sneaking suspicion my DPS has gone down the drain. At the same time, my minstrel's DPS has gone through the roof... the coda hits are hitting number I have never seen with either my rune keeper or the lore-master.

Maybe time to give this a hard look and balance things more out? Doesn't seem right the way it is now.

Originally Posted by Boffadoc

Just checking to see what they're going to replace the Limrafn with...

For my part, they can replace it with anything they like. I'll stick with my Onyx Lynx.

Almost one month after release, I'm satisfied with my LM performances after the patch.

The new blue traits have surely made more interesting the debuff/support setup, with the full OD set my healing is quite good even if, being fully reactive, it will always be a sort of global morale filler, with peaks and fast response (rightfully) demanded to minstrels and rks. I would have preferred if improved flanking would have not been based on the presence of a reactive armor-type buff, as that will basically exclude its use from non tanks and from encounters where mobs should be off tanked from the main tank, but I can adapt.

The dps builds are as good as before. With a balanced setup and normal gear, I'm going from 300 to 1200 average dps depending on big the pull is, per pull. I could surely do much better with a glass cannon setup, but at the moment I need more survivability for longer fights than big hits.

Just one bad point. Limrafn (eh, I know...), I just can't find a good use for it. There's not a single encounter where I found my blob of light making any real improvement over other pets, or at least good enough to compensate what I lose by not using another pet. The reactive heal would work better if it wasn't a target, but a ward placed around the target that healed everyone hitting the mobs in the ward. Or if it would last longer and healed for more. As it is, the raven (fire debuffs to make RKs happy), bear (armor debuff) and bog/eagle (flankings hence heals) add way more to the table.

I retired mine for the time been its just feels clumsy now, sustainable dps is weaker than everything but a tank yes 7k dev crits are epic 3-5k lighting is epic but then what do we have BE spam with abit off LOTRD.
theres no use for an lm anywhere atm because minis bring more to a group its better to take 4 of them for the combination of tales/anthems in raids, regeneration is not an issue if you run out of power now than you seriously have issues playing your class, skirmish soldiers have replaced us in those instances and in one where they cant be summoned regen isant a problem anyway because of the amount of time your out of combat.
and debuff lm is also useless the new raid boss dos little dmg since its all distributed anyway it equals about 500 dmg and considering you will have atleast 1 burg if not 2 theres 2 disables on the legs and paws anyway if things generally go pear shaped which it never dos.

healing support isant even needed anymore as capts and minis are healing so much.

so while our crits and dev crits are nice we have effectively been removed from the current playing field in terms of needed or usefull not to mention the sacrafice of Basic morale on gear which is the only thing an lm needs other than will due to the high price of skills the pve kit just dos not offer enought balance for a class which relys on it..

Originally Posted by Redplague90

regeneration is not an issue if you run out of power now than you seriously have issues playing your class

There are still issues with power, especially with Captains. We can't be fully healing to our potential without an LM, since our skill power-costs weren't reduced much, but they changed out primary stat from Will to Might, so our power-pools are 2.5k instead of 4-5k.

LM's will always be useful for the debuffs, stun immunity, and power. With GB being run a bunch, skirmish bosses like Will-breakers, the dragon paws needing debuffing (yes, burgs can do it, but the LM can put a ring down too, don't forget), raven's debuff to fire damage on an already fire-susceptible Draigoch, and fire damage skills for that matter, etc, etc. you will always have a job in my raids.

Originally Posted by Redplague90

I retired mine for the time been its just feels clumsy now, sustainable dps is weaker than everything but a tank yes 7k dev crits are epic 3-5k lighting is epic but then what do we have BE spam with abit off LOTRD.
theres no use for an lm anywhere atm because minis bring more to a group its better to take 4 of them for the combination of tales/anthems in raids, regeneration is not an issue if you run out of power now than you seriously have issues playing your class, skirmish soldiers have replaced us in those instances and in one where they cant be summoned regen isant a problem anyway because of the amount of time your out of combat.
and debuff lm is also useless the new raid boss dos little dmg since its all distributed anyway it equals about 500 dmg and considering you will have atleast 1 burg if not 2 theres 2 disables on the legs and paws anyway if things generally go pear shaped which it never dos.

healing support isant even needed anymore as capts and minis are healing so much.

so while our crits and dev crits are nice we have effectively been removed from the current playing field in terms of needed or usefull not to mention the sacrafice of Basic morale on gear which is the only thing an lm needs other than will due to the high price of skills the pve kit just dos not offer enought balance for a class which relys on it..

Man i agree with you! I think the relation between CC/Dps/InductionTime needs a rethought. And I'm suffering this power issue too.

Originally Posted by Redplague90

so while our crits and dev crits are nice we have effectively been removed from the current playing field in terms of needed or usefull not to mention the sacrafice of Basic morale on gear which is the only thing an lm needs other than will due to the high price of skills the pve kit just dos not offer enought balance for a class which relys on it..

Overdramatic. I'm wearing 5 pieces of the new 75 armour set, got one second age LI, staff ; got nice jewelry, not the most top-notch stuff around, but the best stuff a jeweller can make. Sacrifice morale? It sits at 8000 right now, unbuffed, thanks. It's even gonna get better when I get better gear like the dragon cape and some of the jewelry I've seen drop in raids. Not expecting to hit 10k, but 9k at least. Vitality over 1000, will over 1200... My damage is pretty good. Wouldn't say dps, since it's more bursts, but strategically placed, they can turn tides. AoE damage, especially. Using it more than ever and again, with the right timing, you can dispatch waves of adds as proficiently as a champion. Legacies make sure my debuff makes a difference, hybrid traits between AC and MoNF... There are ways to optimize most roles we're good at. Sure you won't do as much damage as a hunter, but while you deal your irregular bursts of damage, you'll also soften the mobs, not only for you, but for the hunter as well... You'll weaken their attacks, making it easier for the tank(s) and healer(s)... you know, like a swiss army knife. It's not about what we're good at, it's the sum of what we do. My only regret is that I no longer have an unlimited power pool to distribute to fellows, it burns too fast nowadays and I don't see much room for more icpr in my build.

In any case, yeah, the inductions can be a pain, especially when pvp'ing, Moors or spars. Makes us predictable and since our CC is very counterable in pvp situations, we're fighting with only one arm. But other than that, get real, LM's haven't been made useless, you just have to rethink the way you work, the way you gear and the stats that you want to increase.

Originally Posted by Redplague90

so while our crits and dev crits are nice we have effectively been removed from the current playing field in terms of needed or usefull not to mention the sacrafice of Basic morale on gear which is the only thing an lm needs other than will due to the high price of skills the pve kit just dos not offer enought balance for a class which relys on it..

I do not feel "removed".

I agree with the need for vitality on my gear...been wondering who thought that no vit in the stats for the quest rewards was a good idea >.> Watching my morale drop down after every armor replacement was not fun.

That said...I wanted to point out that while vit is important...it is not the top priority. Everyone needs at least some vit, but we do not need to stack it since we are not tanks...if we are getting hit, someone is doing something wrong. (Unless...of course; you play pvp lol, which I do not )

Curious if there is any information about any changes to the PvP armour? If will is important then why is all the new moors armour seriously lacking in it? Hope that changes along with the removal of the new pet or at least a better non-healing pet.

I find that all my pets get caught up in Isengard especially doing the dailies.... even my spirit of nature. I have to constantly recall my pet back to me to a point where I dismissed them because it was getting annoying.

Originally Posted by Boffadoc

Just checking to see what they're going to replace the Limarfn with...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=estTtyHv8D4

To the Devs, would love if you took a close look at the moors armour for LMs. I have pretty much all the great gear you can get for the lvl 75 LMs. I have noticed that if i take my finesse way up then my will drops like 400+. The moors armour kills your will and has low armour value even when you use really good jewellery. So basically i have to choose from hitting more often but way way weaker or hit less but stronger. I love the vit and morale but just kinda confused why so much fate? I understand the in-combat morale regen but you can use pots for that. Basically begging for you guys to make moors armour that is actually good for the LM, i do love the bonuses though ya got that right. Did you design that armour based off one server where alot of people go there, cause that's not the case for my server unless your a creep. I wouldn't even mind if ya kept that stupid heal pet (which sadly you are) if ya made the moors armour better especially since the creeps are getting a ton of love now from you guys.

Originally Posted by MitchTheReap

To the Devs, would love if you took a close look at the moors armour for LMs. I have pretty much all the great gear you can get for the lvl 75 LMs. I have noticed that if i take my finesse way up then my will drops like 400+. The moors armour kills your will and has low armour value even when you use really good jewellery. So basically i have to choose from hitting more often but way way weaker or hit less but stronger. I love the vit and morale but just kinda confused why so much fate? I understand the in-combat morale regen but you can use pots for that. Basically begging for you guys to make moors armour that is actually good for the LM, i do love the bonuses though ya got that right. Did you design that armour based off one server where alot of people go there, cause that's not the case for my server unless your a creep. I wouldn't even mind if ya kept that stupid heal pet (which sadly you are) if ya made the moors armour better especially since the creeps are getting a ton of love now from you guys.

Sure, I don't have moors armor on this char already, but i did look at it at barter and that don't look great. These bonuses needs to change seriously. In the way it is I prefer my galtrev set over the moors one at moment.

The effect of the "Improved Staff-sweep" must be buff to the end of the battle, or time-30s. Extremely easy to use. One has to run up and hit has a chance to get under the AOE attack and die.
Talent "Harmony with Nature" and "Master of the Staff" for a long time to do passive. Like and the legendary talents on "Mace and Staff" and "Improved Sticky Gourd". Now Lore-Master becomes boring and useless in a raid. Talent "Power and Wisdom" in need of upgrading. You make a lot of burglar's damage, control and combo. With the "hunger" for power which one LM can not handle. Minstrel's giving you infinite power. If the LM will be the same "long" and "boring", you'll need to change the class or to remove it.
If you start to make out of LM class, and a pleasure to play, do it till the end. LM as a class do not have enough talent, books, or powders to resist damage, or (as it exists in all classes). I think that you could create a topic where people play this class could express what they want.

Stances for Lore-masters!

1) Condense (Dps): The Lore-master condenses all his power in just one target.
Effect: Tranforms the AoE skills into One Target skills with more damage.

2) Full Control (Support): The Lore-master knowledge predicts the opponent's mind.
Effect: Lore-master's stun skills have a chance of not pop or remove CC diminishing returns from the target, and all of Lore-masters skills have a chance of sucking some of opponent's power.

3) Animal Roar (Pet oriented): The Lore-master's cry invokes the power of nature.
Effect: Doubles pet damage and doubles healing on pets.

Still waiting to hear from the devs what the hell is going on with the LM moors armour. Why does the moors set so badly lack in will???? The armour value is a joke. It's not like it's super easy to get with the amount of time involved! Please for the love of Mordor fix it!!

Originally Posted by Minye

These all sound wonderful but the one skill I still and always will contend needs to be made group effect is SI!!!! Even if it is only a group effect. Even with havingin the skill lengthened on the book with the Leg on top of CC, Debuffing, passing power, drawing power ect ect .. The Lm has to stop everything to apply SI to all persons in contact with stunning Monsters. I would Gladly trait anything to have SI group effect =))

Just my Humble opinion =)
Always
Minye of Firefoot

Foundry? hell ya!

./signed

another vote for stun immunity to be fellowship wide

seriously all these troll suggestions about group-stunn-imu really pisses me off. Isn't it obvious that the clou of a good lm is to find a good rotation that implies cc, debuff and support. To ease one of this tasks, affects the playability of this class.
It would be a step to a really easymode class... Imagine the minstrels boulster courage would be a group heal...

With the appropriate legacy/trait you can push the duration up to 1:00/1:30 which gives you enough time to dispense stun imu to all group members/key classes, remaining enough time to cc/ share the power.

Since this skill also has 5 seconds cd you can easily do one skill in the meantime.

A good lm is is a master of multi-tasking, so all those of you who have problems with, should go play a hunter

Is this the "make a wish thread"?

So I'll place mine also-
I would love to be able to use (Improved) Knowledge of Cures not only on players who are in my fellowship, but also on all other players (at least single-target outside of the group would be nice).
No, I'm no Ettenplayer and don't know how this would affect PvMP, but it hurts me in some way to see friends with wounds outside of the group and there is nothing I can do for them.

I would like to suggest that lore-masters moors armour needs to have more will and not fate. I have looked at all the other classes and the armour they have is tailored for them. Lore-masters seem to be the only ones overlooked in the update when it comes to the new armour? I would like to plead that the new moors armour will be more will heavy in the upcoming expansion. I am not asking for some major overhaul but maybe just switching all the fate with will. I understand that some fate is good, I do but the armour is just so fate heavy. I like everything else about the armour. Peace out

*Or maybe make a set of armour that is for a LM that wants to be supporter / "healer" and one for more of a solo player that needs more punch in the attack like how i play.