Thread: Ongoing Ettenmoors Discussion

Originally Posted by Squelcher

Forgetting that tar provides a greater slow over a longer period of time, has a wider radius and debuffs fire defence. Tar is a pre fight preperation skill. WTE is a post fight escape skill.

Actually is doesn't provide a greater slow over time it's the web that does that. Since you get a slow for 10 sec after leaving that area. and it doesn't have to be an escape skills.

Originally Posted by Waolas

Actually is doesn't provide a greater slow over time it's the web that does that. Since you get a slow for 10 sec after leaving that area. and it doesn't have to be an escape skills.

As far as I know tar is a 60% slow and web is a 40% slow.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

As far as I know tar is a 60% slow and web is a 40% slow.

isn't web 50% slow? anyway the duration after moving out of it makes much better, also considering that it got no induction.

Originally Posted by S-n-1-p-3-s

And what?

I'll keep doing it too till you decide to atleast pop your noses round the corner of STA entrance It's my skill, i shall press where/when i please thanking your very muchly.....


Man Lurrrrrrves to you!

Newsflash Einstein - put tar down and the rest of the freeps moves up to the doorway. Nobody is gonna run through it to stick their nose out the door
Keep doing it .........and keep wasting your time.

Web is 50% btw....

Originally Posted by Squelcher

As far as I know tar is a 60% slow and web is a 40% slow.

Originally Posted by Waolas

isn't web 50% slow? anyway the duration after moving out of it makes much better, also considering that it got no induction.

What makes Tar so good:
50% Slow 10%- Firemitigation to those IN the puddle.
1m Duration
Very nice to throw in openings where creeps have to go to get to the freeps or to get out.

What makes Tar so bad:
1m 30s cooldown.
Creeps can avoid/back off the puddle and go around it.
Long induction makes it hard to put Tar inside creepraid and battle or use it as an escape skill.

What makes WTE so good:
Gives a 30% slow for 10s to anyone who touches the web.
Very nice to throw in openings where freeps have to go to get to the freeps or to get out.
No Induction so you can throw it in the middle of a freepraid or a battle and you can use it as an escape skill.

What makes WTE so bad:
1m Cooldown.
Duration of web is shorter than Tar.
Have no - mitigation when standing inside web.



Well one can make a list of pros and cons but this is my list and I think in these conditions I wrote WTE is more effective than Tar in PvP.

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

What makes Tar so good:
50% Slow 10%- Firemitigation to those IN the puddle.
1m Duration

pretty sure tar is -990 fire defence isnt it? Which for my spider (having 3085 fire defence at r10) is in fact ~-32% not 10%....

soo lets look at the others then:

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

What makes Tar so bad:
1m 30s cooldown.

60s duration and 90s CD means you will be waiting 30s till you can re-apply. Webs, 10s duration 60s CD so you will be waiting 50s till you can re-apply. See the difference?

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

Long induction makes it hard to put Tar inside creepraid and battle or use it as an escape skill.

so the induction is longer than lightning storm or ents is it? No, yet LM can use this skill in every single raid battle cant they? Additionally Equip the EM armour set and the cast will be instant. So you cant use it as an escape skill as effectively as webs, thats because it is not designed that way, doesnt make it any less powerful. You also cannot use webs to block up a choke hole for 60s.

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

Creeps can avoid/back off the puddle and go around it.

and why cant freeps avoid webs in the same way?

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

What makes WTE so good:
Gives a 30% slow for 10s to anyone who touches the web.

its 50% same as tar.

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

Very nice to throw in openings where freeps have to go to get to the freeps or to get out.

and this is different to tar? Apart from the fact that the spider actually has to be in the opening to cast it or it will be gone by the time the freeps get there, whereas LM can pop tar down at WTE entrance at any point to get 60s of slowed exits.

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

No Induction so you can throw it in the middle of a freepraid or a battle and you can use it as an escape skill.

yes its no induction, the trade off is the duration which is a whopping 6 times less than tar.

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

What makes WTE so bad:
1m Cooldown.
Duration of web is shorter than Tar.
Have no - mitigation when standing inside web.

answered these already.

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

Well one can make a list of pros and cons but this is my list and I think in these conditions I wrote WTE is more effective than Tar in PvP.

Played both classes for much time in EM. Both skills are incredibly useful and none more or less than the other. You want devs to give LM and weaver identical skills? Then you would see some QQ

I saw spiders webbing TA entrance yesterday. True story.

Originally Posted by Viriel

I saw spiders webbing TA entrance yesterday. True story.

Yes, to stop freeps zerging in.....and?
You are aware that due to the inbalance, unless there are substantially more creeps, freeps are capable of rushing in after a target regardless of the pulled NPCs and still escape?

Originally Posted by Caeser107

Newsflash Einstein - put tar down and the rest of the freeps moves up to the doorway. Nobody is gonna run through it to stick their nose out the door
Keep doing it .........and keep wasting your time.

Web is 50% btw....

I will, thank's, and if no-one chooses to run through it then that's their choice Same as it's my choice when to and where to use it.

>.<

Originally Posted by Caeser107

Yes, to stop freeps zerging in.....and?
You are aware that due to the inbalance, unless there are substantially more creeps, freeps are capable of rushing in after a target regardless of the pulled NPCs and still escape?

Originally Posted by Caeser107

Newsflash Einstein

Creeps can do the same if freeps can still escape they'll need either one person pulling it all and running away with it. *cough* EC deathtrap *cough* or they have to have healers which I think creeps have as well, more then us even cause all of ours are generally in WS or battle attunement, so just cappies left tho they can do the job just fine... so yea I mean if creeps charge after one target we can't help it all creeps run back to quest room and stairs and stuff so no bubble heals or ganking off the person that pulls the NPCs... can't blame us for that same happens on our side cause everyone is scared they might get killed...

I know creeps tend to slaughter everything in EC but one thing I really cant comprehend, and Ive noticed this a long time ago.

Why is it when EC is a clear slaughterhouse the freeps keep flocking there one by one on their horses into our gaping jaws lol? I dont understand theres like 15 creeps inside, a freep dies then he comes back ALONE on his horse and straight to EC which is full of creeps.

EC zergs are gonna happen as long as creeps are still alive, but avoiding going there if its a pit of death might help

Originally Posted by Squelcher

I know creeps tend to slaughter everything in EC but one thing I really cant comprehend, and Ive noticed this a long time ago.

Why is it when EC is a clear slaughterhouse the freeps keep flocking there one by one on their horses into our gaping jaws lol? I dont understand theres like 15 creeps inside, a freep dies then he comes back ALONE on his horse and straight to EC which is full of creeps.

EC zergs are gonna happen as long as creeps are still alive, but avoiding going there if its a pit of death might help

Well I just stated that that it can happen on both sides.

Tho my personal answer to your question:

For me one kill (pref kb, that's why I come alone ) is enough for me to die for, and when you're all in EC 15 of you inside, often there is a lone ba at bridge, or someone got lots of agro tries to run it off OUTside of EC, and for me with sprint that's just an ideal gank targets. people keep coming back and take cover inside which means you stay inside fighting and killing, and well I get some kills outside or inside on low creeps So I keep going back cause for me that's worth it ^^ 20 times better then having 10 freeps more and have standoffs between stab and TA for 5 hours straight

Originally Posted by Squelcher

I know creeps tend to slaughter everything in EC but one thing I really cant comprehend, and Ive noticed this a long time ago.

Why is it when EC is a clear slaughterhouse the freeps keep flocking there one by one on their horses into our gaping jaws lol? I dont understand theres like 15 creeps inside, a freep dies then he comes back ALONE on his horse and straight to EC which is full of creeps.

EC zergs are gonna happen as long as creeps are still alive, but avoiding going there if its a pit of death might help

For me it just depends on the size of the zerg.

For example, I'll come back to EC if I can get some renown even if I have to die for it. For us melee classes EC is much better for getting a bit a of renown when out numbered compared to TR, because there are walls, ramps and other things to break line of sight with. It creates a more dynamic fight compared to TR, where there is just one really long corridor and a huge open ramp leading up to the door.

Meh, what I usually see is a single file line of freeps just running willingly to their deaths and most of them dont even make it to the door.

LOL, yeah that is pretty funny.

On that note, I think EC and OC should have more enterances

... or maybe some sort of underground network of tunnels

Perhaps just a sign that says 'Approach at your own peril'.

Originally Posted by Dilated

pretty sure tar is -990 fire defence isnt it? Which for my spider (having 3085 fire defence at r10) is in fact ~-32% not 10%....

soo lets look at the others then:



60s duration and 90s CD means you will be waiting 30s till you can re-apply. Webs, 10s duration 60s CD so you will be waiting 50s till you can re-apply. See the difference?



so the induction is longer than lightning storm or ents is it? No, yet LM can use this skill in every single raid battle cant they? Additionally Equip the EM armour set and the cast will be instant. So you cant use it as an escape skill as effectively as webs, thats because it is not designed that way, doesnt make it any less powerful. You also cannot use webs to block up a choke hole for 60s.



and why cant freeps avoid webs in the same way?



its 50% same as tar.



and this is different to tar? Apart from the fact that the spider actually has to be in the opening to cast it or it will be gone by the time the freeps get there, whereas LM can pop tar down at WTE entrance at any point to get 60s of slowed exits.



yes its no induction, the trade off is the duration which is a whopping 6 times less than tar.



answered these already.



Played both classes for much time in EM. Both skills are incredibly useful and none more or less than the other. You want devs to give LM and weaver identical skills? Then you would see some QQ

Yikes mate, what have I done? You missunderstod me quite ... alot.

I have NEVER said that I want LM or weaver to have identical skills. The whole point of my message was that I think LM's and Weavers Tar/WTE is good as they are and is acording ME good as they are with their pros and cons.

Edit: Still, I like webbing with my spider more then Tar with my LM. Though I don't want it to change in any way.

I didnt have time to log in and check stats for skills so I used Lotro Wiki and Lorebook to check up stats for skills so I am very sorry for getting the skills stats wrong.

What I mean with freeps can't avoid web is stat IF web or Tar suddenly appear under your feets you move away from it, as soon as a creep leave Tar they loose slow effect while when a freep moves from webbing the freep will have the effect for 10 more seconds.

And yes I actually see the difference with having a CD at 1m 30s and a CD of 1m. What means you can put down a Web each minute... while a LM who put down tar has to wait for another 1m 30s ... since players move you would want to move your Tar too... I am still not saying it's unfair, I do not see any problem with it, it should be like that BUT I have many times wanted to put my tar down at a new spot since battle have moved a few steps.

Eh, Ents and Lightningstorm... Yea it's even easier to cast Tar that these noticable skills but still Tar has Induction and I have cast it many times to secure an escape for group/raid but mostly ends in me falling behind and getting Weaver, BA and reaver food.

And yes everyone have full set of PvMP armour and have their pet flanking so they can cast skills with no induction everytime And, if im not mistaken ... efter you have done a skill with 0 induction you have to wait 10s before you can du that again. And you can't realy "choose" what skill to have 0 induction... what if my BE takes that 0 Induction?

Sorry if I stepped on some sore toes, I didn't mean to do that.

Thanks for the 1v1 Kaz the best action I've had all night...

Wow, a creep raid vs 7 solo freeps.

I'll be at LC HS for about 20 mins if anyone wants a few spars

Spars @ lug spawn creeps? Freeps are up for it instead of the zergs!

Yawn.... If your gonna steam roll, hurry up about it this is boring is hell. Getting fed up of making the effort to come to you

Used to think killing a TA Tyrant while creep raid is present in under 1 minute was unbelieable.

Now it seems doing it in under 30 seconds is the new norm. :\

Originally Posted by stoffi

That's really low. :-/

I know Stoff,was frustrated.

Please be aware that the forums are moderated. If content is deemed unacceptable it will be removed.

We do not publicly discuss moderation decisions, or disciplinary actions taken against members, on the Community Sites and we ask that you do not either. Any threads or posts that mention infractions, bans, or thread/post deletions or modifications, etc. are subject to removal and may result in further disciplinary action.

Please refer to the Community Guidelines to help clarify: http://www.lotro.com/community/700-communityguidelines

Originally Posted by Sidlamel

Please be aware that the forums are moderated. If content is deemed unacceptable it will be removed.

We do not publicly discuss moderation decisions, or disciplinary actions taken against members, on the Community Sites and we ask that you do not either. Any threads or posts that mention infractions, bans, or thread/post deletions or modifications, etc. are subject to removal and may result in further disciplinary action.

Please refer to the Community Guidelines to help clarify: http://www.lotro.com/community/700-communityguidelines

Confused, i dont see this

This TA farm is getting very annoying. Bringing zerg train to a whole new level with your dps machine which is composed mainly of healers....

Kazadan you look fecking awesome in that skin. Now back to the killing lol

P.s Iv been online last hour, freeps have been knocking seven bells out of creeps then as soon as enough creep come online to make it interesting all freep disapear Wheres the logic in that lol

Originally Posted by Ludo-EU

Kazadan you look fecking awesome in that skin. Now back to the killing lol

P.s Iv been online last hour, freeps have been knocking seven bells out of creeps then as soon as enough creep come online to make it interesting all freep disapear Wheres the logic in that lol

They died once and no one wanted to step up to lead...

Glad im not hung up on staying alive trend lol Run in die and laugh

dear syneth, next time we are sparring you might want to think twice before running inside ta on 300. first of all its just rude and itll only makes you end up getting ganked anyway.

ako.

Awww, not nice of you Draugy, hipsing like that when losing a accepted spar with my guard :c

I am disappointed !

Originally Posted by Gwyen

Awww, not nice of you Draugy, hipsing like that when losing a accepted spar with my guard :c

I am disappointed !

Sry dude, I had TS on cd from that Hunter before you and shouldnt have accepted tbh. Was truthfully going for a dis/pounce until i saw it was on cd, then I felt a bit yellow and made bacon butties with brown sauce instead.

Originally Posted by Draugy

Sry dude, I had TS on cd from that Hunter before you and shouldnt have accepted tbh. Was truthfully going for a dis/pounce until i saw it was on cd, then I felt a bit yellow and made bacon butties with brown sauce instead.

A spar with a guardian isn't fair anyways.

Originally Posted by stoffi

A spar with a guardian isn't fair anyways.

Pfft. An indestructible dps machine that can do considerable DoT damage, mega crits with weak skills, heal themselves, restore power and escape to a safe distance if necessary?

Sounds fair to me tbh.

In that case you could simple not accept the spar, I know how tough Guardians are, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to fight one.

Originally Posted by Gwyen

In that case you could simple not accept the spar, I know how tough Guardians are, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to fight one.

Draugy likes challenging people even when he knows they are clearly SUPERIOR to him.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

Draugy likes challenging people even when he knows they are clearly SUPERIOR to him.

lmao

good one

Originally Posted by Draugy

lmao

good one

Uruk literacy rate is just as high as our status

Unlike you scrawny four leggers.

thx for few spars nargai.
i know there's much improving in my sparring kills
but always happy to test them out.
atleast I got some inf from you, though i know you would had couple more aces in your sleeves.

hehe aye enjoyed it man cheers to you guys as well ^^
and especially your fast reaction after the warg stunned me and well to be fair you would've won that without a doubt.. (unless I used heals etc but don't like to do that in spars..) And yea draw was awesome.. cause well you did earn the infamy from the spar before so you got it I just stole some as well but yea cheers man ^^