Thread: Ongoing Ettenmoors Discussion

Originally Posted by Squelcher

My previous post is still true, I disagree with Stoff, but:

Stoff is not trolling, I see a lot of posts in which people proclaim that he is trolling, he is not, very few, if any of the posts he has made recently have been intended for trolling.

Always nice to discuss with someone who provides sensible arguments rather than personal attacks in the form of trolling-accusations.

As for your previous post, I don't dismiss the skill of players playing classes that are easier to grasp than others. There is a huge difference between players like Delotha and let's say me if I took over Delotha's hunter today. I would have relative success, get decent renown and get kills, but Delotha himself would do it a lot better, especially in 1v1's where I would not stand a chance. Give a player who's never played warg before my warg and he would die again and again with few kills and little infamy, unless he was leeching on a pack or something. But I reckon he would still beat most hunters solo, because many/most hunters just give up or don't have a clue what to do in 1v1's.

i have to say, i feel really sorry for creeps. honestly. i can't even comprehend how desperate you guys must be to chase 1 guy all the way from stab to hoarhallow, literally. quite sad

Originally Posted by Borrison

i have to say, i feel really sorry for creeps. honestly. i can't even comprehend how desperate you guys must be to chase 1 guy all the way from stab to hoarhallow, literally. quite sad

You suggest that they should have simply stopped chasing and let you run off?

Originally Posted by Squelcher

You suggest that they should have simply stopped chasing and let you run off?

i wasn't running away from anything, i was just moving away on my horse from stab where regular boring 15 on 15 pew pew was going on. 6 of them saw me and went after me. they caught me at river op cause one of the wargs sprinted and got me off my horse. myrkki, a spider i remember leaving alone in hh when he was questing, even mapped somehow somewhere, since he suddenly came from opposite, hh direction.
my point is, i wasn't surely the only freep online, it's not like they had nothing else to do. the amount of effort they've done to earn their 15-ish renown each on me was ridiculous.

btw, i don't remember having a fight today that wasn't at least 1 vs 5. which is fine, i play like that, sometimes it pays off, sometimes i get ganked. but please have some dignity sometimes

Originally Posted by Borrison

btw, i don't remember having a fight today that wasn't at least 1 vs 5. which is fine, i play like that, sometimes it pays off, sometimes i get ganked. but please have some dignity sometimes

Welcome to my world. Had a nice 2v2 with manic and ceol, got manic down and a freep raid turned up (didn't think he was that kind of person) and don't even bother spawn camping. Constant zergs try to stop it, because they can't have a decent fight. I found the only way to fight fair is the same high rank freeps who will spar, while the noobs are crying for help in ooc.

Originally Posted by Borrison

i wasn't running away from anything, i was just moving away on my horse from stab where regular boring 15 on 15 pew pew was going on. 6 of them saw me and went after me. they caught me at river op cause one of the wargs sprinted and got me off my horse. myrkki, a spider i remember leaving alone in hh when he was questing, even mapped somehow somewhere, since he suddenly came from opposite, hh direction.
my point is, i wasn't surely the only freep online, it's not like they had nothing else to do. the amount of effort they've done to earn their 15-ish renown each on me was ridiculous.

btw, i don't remember having a fight today that wasn't at least 1 vs 5. which is fine, i play like that, sometimes it pays off, sometimes i get ganked. but please have some dignity sometimes

Welcome to my world. I often get chased around half the map by 10-20 freeps until I can find the time to map out somewhere.

But let me get it right. You're complaining that you, in a pvp zone, got pursued and attacked by several other PvP'ers playing on the opposing side?

Borrison, you sound like you're having a bad day today.

Originally Posted by Borrison

i have to say, i feel really sorry for creeps. honestly. i can't even comprehend how desperate you guys must be to chase 1 guy all the way from stab to hoarhallow, literally. quite sad

Does this mean that all the freeps that chase me on a daily basis are sad too?

Originally Posted by Borrison

i have to say, i feel really sorry for creeps. honestly. i can't even comprehend how desperate you guys must be to chase 1 guy all the way from stab to hoarhallow, literally. quite sad

Lol think yourself lucky you can make it that far, and it is nothing unusual, both Freep and Creep chase peeps across the map for the kill, unbelievable as it seems, thats the idea

Hmm. Creeps following you around the map for a kill you say ? That sounds wrong, nerf pl0x :-)

Originally Posted by Reapor

Lol think yourself lucky you can make it that far, and it is nothing unusual, both Freep and Creep chase peeps across the map for the kill, unbelievable as it seems, thats the idea

don't know man, i can't imagine myself moving all across the map with 5 of my friends after someone says on ooc there's a lone creep somewhere, and that would pretty much equal what happened here.

but never mind me, stoff is right, i do have a bad day, i'm tired of all those wargs and spiders hipsing/burrowing in my 1 vs 3/4/5 fights + trolls. geez, and they say champs are ez moders. my whole point of playing is to charge a group, kill 1 and then die but constant hips and #### wouldn't let me

btw there are some certain creeps that like to cj me or mock me in some other way when i get killed like that. as much as the cj's flatter me, it really confuses me why would you do that, it's not like you achieved something magnificent since i die all the time i had a great 1 vs 3 yesterday at ta lawn with seldini and 2 other creeps, it lasted for around 4 minutes (i know cause i used sprint twice) and then seldini cj-ed which disappointed me a bit cause i thought that guy was cool. oh well

Originally Posted by Borrison

don't know man, i can't imagine myself moving all across the map with 5 of my friends after someone says on ooc there's a lone creep somewhere, and that would pretty much equal what happened here.

but never mind me, stoff is right, i do have a bad day, i'm tired of all those wargs and spiders hipsing/burrowing in my 1 vs 3/4/5 fights + trolls. geez, and they say champs are ez moders. my whole point of playing is to charge a group, kill 1 and then die but constant hips and #### wouldn't let me

btw there are some certain creeps that like to cj me or mock me in some other way when i get killed like that. as much as the cj's flatter me, it really confuses me why would you do that, it's not like you achieved something magnificent since i die all the time i had a great 1 vs 3 yesterday at ta lawn with seldini and 2 other creeps, it lasted for around 4 minutes (i know cause i used sprint twice) and then seldini cj-ed which disappointed me a bit cause i thought that guy was cool. oh well

Well, I'm tired of all you champs either running away or beating me.


Btw, if a freep is spotted somewhere on the map, it's quite common to shout it out in ooc, telling where he's spotted, where's he's headed, etc. Unless you are in a position to catch him yourself ofc.

The cj'ing might because you play an op class and despite being op, the cj'ing creeps managed to beat you. That's how I understand it though.


1v3/4/5 fights, are you listening to yourself? It's absurd that you should be able to fight that many and still get kills AND get away. I couldn't hope to beat even 2 freeps at once, nor get a kill unless one was very squishy and the other's dps was ####. (insert smiley!)

Originally Posted by stoffi

1v3/4/5 fights, are you listening to yourself? It's absurd that you should be able to fight that many and still get kills AND get away. I couldn't hope to beat even 2 freeps at once, nor get a kill unless one was very squishy and the other's dps was ####. (insert smiley!)

omg not again

I like your playing style, Bori. Thx for all the great 1vs1 fights we had. Don't let other players frustrate you. I also get frustrated sometimes and I use to take a short brake when that happends. Carry on..

People corpse jump for the sake of it. No need to worry about that.

I agree about wargs. They're the most cowardly, stupid classes there are. If they see someone in a 2v1, they won't stop to help, because in a fair fight they might die. As soon as it takes 2 hits, it uses hips. If you're outnumbered, don't even hope for help. On many occasions have I saved a warg only for it to use the bubble to run instead of help. I hope hips gets a nerf, maybe make it out of combat only, similar to DF. And of course, make stealth have a timer, like the warden. That way we might one day get some fighting done.

Edit: I agree, never seen borrison play unfair, leave the guy alone. Unless you'd rather him roll a rune keeper and exploit everything possible, like a certain RK you made a thread to complain about.

Originally Posted by Thaberg

People corpse jump for the sake of it. No need to worry about that.

I agree about wargs. They're the most cowardly, stupid classes there are. If they see someone in a 2v1, they won't stop to help, because in a fair fight they might die. As soon as it takes 2 hits, it uses hips. If you're outnumbered, don't even hope for help. On many occasions have I saved a warg only for it to use the bubble to run instead of help. I hope hips gets a nerf, maybe make it out of combat only, similar to DF. And of course, make stealth have a timer, like the warden. That way we might one day get some fighting done.

Edit: I agree, never seen borrison play unfair, leave the guy alone. Unless you'd rather him roll a rune keeper and exploit everything possible, like a certain RK you made a thread to complain about.

I'm not feeling the lub there fin not at all

Originally Posted by Natako

I'm not feeling the lub there fin not at all

Tbh, you're the one of the only wargs I've ever seen help me when a zerg came, you're not too bad.

Originally Posted by Thaberg

Tbh, you're the one of the only wargs I've ever seen help me when a zerg came, you're not too bad.

And what fictional story book did you get this out of?

I am a defiler.
I have DPS like a "wet lettuce" (ref. Oden*).
That is true.
I will not eat lettuce for lunch tomorrow (i.e. 'today', friday now).
That is true for this time.

A defilers strong side is to heal.
A champions strong side is to DPS.
A good defiler can enter a good group of strong freeps, start to heal, run around a bit and then run away and still be alive.
That is false
A good champion can enter a good group of strong creeps, start to DPS, run around a bit and then run away and still be alive.
That is true

Ying/yang, white/black, champ/defiler.

Originally Posted by EruzEsp

I am a defiler.
I have DPS like a "wet lettuce" (ref. Oden*).
That is true.
I will not eat lettuce for lunch tomorrow (i.e. 'today', friday now).
That is true for this time.

A defilers strong side is to heal.
A champions strong side is to DPS.
A good defiler can enter a good group of strong freeps, start to heal, run around a bit and then run away and still be alive.
That is false
A good champion can enter a good group of strong creeps, start to DPS, run around a bit and then run away and still be alive.
That is true

Ying/yang, white/black, champ/defiler.

I don't know why ... but this calls rep ...

Originally Posted by EruzEsp

I am a defiler.
I have DPS like a "wet lettuce" (ref. Oden*).
That is true.
I will not eat lettuce for lunch tomorrow (i.e. 'today', friday now).
That is true for this time.

A defilers strong side is to heal.
A champions strong side is to DPS.
A good defiler can enter a good group of strong freeps, start to heal, run around a bit and then run away and still be alive.
That is false
A good champion can enter a good group of strong creeps, start to DPS, run around a bit and then run away and still be alive.
That is true

Ying/yang, white/black, champ/defiler.

loooooooool, so not true... let's clear this out, yes if the champ has CBR or a brand or anything otherwise it'll die within seconds all you need is 1, yes only 1 well timed stun...

Try using your brand before doing it and having all your hots up and you'll be able to do the same, unless you get all the focussed fire, in which case a champ also dies brand or no brand

Originally Posted by Ranroth

Originally Posted by Enska

loooooooool, so not true... let's clear this out, yes if the champ has CBR or a brand or anything otherwise it'll die within seconds all you need is 1, yes only 1 well timed stun...

Try using your brand before doing it and having all your hots up and you'll be able to do the same, unless you get all the focussed fire, in which case a champ also dies brand or no brand

False, he can just use SI from LM
To bad we dont haz SI
KKBAI

Originally Posted by Enska

loooooooool, so not true... let's clear this out, yes if the champ has CBR or a brand or anything otherwise it'll die within seconds all you need is 1, yes only 1 well timed stun...

Try using your brand before doing it and having all your hots up and you'll be able to do the same, unless you get all the focussed fire, in which case a champ also dies brand or no brand

Sometimes i truly wonder if you have ever taken your champ into EM. Are you really that blind to seeing the champs that run around daily doing exactly what eruz has said? Defiler HoTs cant handle the amount of damage dealt in those situations. Dunno if you know but defilers arent as strong as they used to be. Especially when freeps DPS is so mental just now.

Really tho I pity most freeps just now as it must be so boring mashing the same keys constantly, doing the same stuff, the same routine and not having any sort of challange. Some of you should try solo more and experience this thing called dying now and again, instead of running about in your gank groups that just steamroll everything before them. How boring and how sad.

Originally Posted by Enska

loooooooool, so not true... let's clear this out, yes if the champ has CBR or a brand or anything otherwise it'll die within seconds all you need is 1, yes only 1 well timed stun...

Try using your brand before doing it and having all your hots up and you'll be able to do the same, unless you get all the focussed fire, in which case a champ also dies brand or no brand

We all see it happen every day, Nargai, so how can it not be true? Open your eyes, it's silly to deny what is out in the open. As Peli says, SI is quite common.

Originally Posted by Romper

Some of you should try solo more and experience this thing called dying now and again, instead of running about in your gank groups that just steamroll everything before them. How boring and how sad.

You're speaking of a perfect world here that will never happen. Most of creeps are star huggers and most freeps don't know how to 1v1.

Originally Posted by stoffi

We all see it happen every day, Nargai, so how can it not be true? Open your eyes, it's silly to deny what is out in the open. As Peli says, SI is quite common.

A lore master in the moors is about as rare as wardens were before they were fotm. There are 0 active.

Originally Posted by Romper

Sometimes i truly wonder if you have ever taken your champ into EM. Are you really that blind to seeing the champs that run around daily doing exactly what eruz has said? Defiler HoTs cant handle the amount of damage dealt in those situations. Dunno if you know but defilers arent as strong as they used to be. Especially when freeps DPS is so mental just now.

Really tho I pity most freeps just now as it must be so boring mashing the same keys constantly, doing the same stuff, the same routine and not having any sort of challange. Some of you should try solo more and experience this thing called dying now and again, instead of running about in your gank groups that just steamroll everything before them. How boring and how sad.

nope I started yday! Well a defiler is a healer a champ is a dps class... and tbh the example wasn't really valid either, champs actually have to do that to dps, why would a defiler run into a group other than to fear? and if it does it's usually close and doesn't charge solo and won't be main target so why would they be able to? why do they need to?

and please have you ever played a champ in EM Romper? I'd like to see how well you survive with some focussed fire on you... sure a champ survives longer than a defiler when 2 things bashing on him but will drop just as fast as a defiler if some more, and 1 on 1 I don't think anything but a champ can actually kill a good defiler... and even champs have issues now especially with flies update so really...

and I won't comment on the second part as I don't really see myself in that part except for 3 words: Pot, Kettle, Black (and that's not aimed at you but at most creeps, and yay I'm gonna get flamed for this)

Originally Posted by Pelious

False, he can just use SI from LM
To bad we dont haz SI
KKBAI

a root completely stops the charge as we are melee where a defiler can still heal when rooted, everything has pro's and con's Peli I think we're talking about not including external classes... your arguement can be completely destroyed by me saying well you just get a WL bubble then instead of SI and you'll survive as well for a bit...

Originally Posted by Enska

a root completely stops the charge as we are melee where a defiler can still heal when rooted, everything has pro's and con's Peli I think we're talking about not including external classes... your arguement can be completely destroyed by me saying well you just get a WL bubble then instead of SI and you'll survive as well for a bit...

Well, despite all the mighty cc on creep side, most champs on Gilrain use p2w brands, get SI or use a real brand and it DOES happen every day. There isn't a creep in here who would claim anything else.


Thaberg, yes, Loremasters are much rarer than before but I still see one or two most days I play. Though they are far from always present.

Originally Posted by Enska

and I won't comment on the second part as I don't really see myself in that part except for 3 words: Pot, Kettle, Black (and that's not aimed at you but at most creeps, and yay I'm gonna get flamed for this)

Challenge accepted!

You, like, totally smell and stuff. Consider yourself flamed.

On a more serious note. Yes, Narg, champions are not invincible.
But they are still grossly OP in certain aspects.

http://dailystats.theblackappendage....hboard/gilrain

Look at the second highest ranked person on Gilrain. That simply isn't possible on a class without a lot of potential. I don't see a defiler on there... I don't see any creep class but warg on there.

Originally Posted by Qynox

Challenge accepted!

You, like, totally smell and stuff. Consider yourself flamed.

On a more serious note. Yes, Narg, champions are not invincible.
But they are still grossly OP in certain aspects.

http://dailystats.theblackappendage....hboard/gilrain

Look at the second highest ranked person on Gilrain. That simply isn't possible on a class without a lot of potential. I don't see a defiler on there... I don't see any creep class but warg on there.

ranks and such mean nothing... just your determination to play and gain ranks... on any class

and also every class has it's OP aspects, some have more then others sometimes and are then called OP and fotm

Last couple pages of this thread, seems there is more action on forums than on EM itself.

Also: creep QQ over 9000

Originally Posted by Enska

a root completely stops the charge as we are melee where a defiler can still heal when rooted, everything has pro's and con's Peli I think we're talking about not including external classes... your arguement can be completely destroyed by me saying well you just get a WL bubble then instead of SI and you'll survive as well for a bit...

Firstly, there are only 2 skills on creep that can ranged root with ####ty durations and breaks on damage after 1 sec and therefore NEVER used. Secondly this was a discussion about CC and not absoarbing damage lol. Since your bringing WL into this, there are plenty of different types of bubbles on freep, , oathbreaker shield thingy, minstrel/RK bubble x2 and tank shield wall, and some other godmode damage absoarbtion skills on freep where as creeps only get defiler shield wall which is interuptable and WL bubble. Thirdly, EVEN though we CAN bubble from WL's, a champ with SI and all skills ready is still as lethal as a champ with brand, simply because no one uses roots/rarely uses them because of how awful they are. This discussion was about stopping champs moving and hitting like a truck not withstanding damage. But hey, we all know champs can wisthand alot of damage and this is not news.

Originally Posted by Pelious

But hey, we all know champs can wisthand alot of damage and this is not news.

Exactly. So why not end it at that?

Originally Posted by Enska

ranks and such mean nothing... just your determination to play and gain ranks... on any class

and also every class has it's OP aspects, some have more then others sometimes and are then called OP and fotm

I meant second highest rated*

Originally Posted by Pelious

Firstly, there are only 2 skills on creep that can ranged root with ####ty durations and breaks on damage after 1 sec and therefore NEVER used. Secondly this was a discussion about CC and not absoarbing damage lol. Since your bringing WL into this, there are plenty of different types of bubbles on freep, , oathbreaker shield thingy, minstrel/RK bubble x2 and tank shield wall, and some other godmode damage absoarbtion skills on freep where as creeps only get defiler shield wall which is interuptable and WL bubble. Thirdly, EVEN though we CAN bubble from WL's, a champ with SI and all skills ready is still as lethal as a champ with brand, simply because no one uses roots/rarely uses them because of how awful they are. This discussion was about stopping champs moving and hitting like a truck not withstanding damage. But hey, we all know champs can wisthand alot of damage and this is not news.

this was a discussion about survivability, not CC or damage absorbing, I gave an example of how to counter... if you think a root is useless that's your opinion, but every time I'm chasing with sprint that 1s root actually takes me 3-5 more secs to reach my target in which time BA's if they use some focused fire have finished me off already with or without bubbles... (and spider root doesn't have a ####ty duration, it's long enough to get someone ganked often enough)

and I don't have a pocket lm with me, + there's only a handful of lm's who bother to SI other people as well... I'm not gonna bother saying more my point is made, the bubble is thrown in cause you started bringing in external classes...

and a defiler healing a target I'm chasing is as annoying as my champ is lethal, just on different sides...

I'm not claiming champ is not a strong class, but pointing out that we can survive while dps'ing creeps while a HEALING CLASS can't survive standing in a group of freeps to heal, it just seems silly, why would you question that? it's logical: cause you're not supposed to stand in a group of freeps, cause you have inductions and won't be able to heal one bit... it's like asking why can't a hunter stand in the middle of 5 creeps and get a hit off while a reaver can? answer: cause one has inductions and is supposed to stand at range, and one is a melee class and is supposed to stand next to the enemy just to be able to hit it...

tho I'm not gonna bother replying unless someone actually posts with logic...

oh and lastly I don't disagree there Stoff, but it's about the classes not the store the defiler can also pop a storebrand... same thing, try playing a champ without storebrands in the pew pew in between stab and TA, try it especially when sprint is on cd, you're gonna have a lot of fun, trying to reach your target

Are people here comparing the combat capabilities of a defiler and a champ? That sounds like comparing the capabilities of a fork and a rhinocerous.

Originally Posted by Enska

this was a discussion about survivability, not CC or damage absorbing, I gave an example of how to counter... if you think a root is useless that's your opinion, but every time I'm chasing with sprint that 1s root actually takes me 3-5 more secs to reach my target in which time BA's if they use some focused fire have finished me off already with or without bubbles... (and spider root doesn't have a ####ty duration, it's long enough to get someone ganked often enough)

and I don't have a pocket lm with me, + there's only a handful of lm's who bother to SI other people as well... I'm not gonna bother saying more my point is made, the bubble is thrown in cause you started bringing in external classes...

and a defiler healing a target I'm chasing is as annoying as my champ is lethal, just on different sides...

I'm not claiming champ is not a strong class, but pointing out that we can survive while dps'ing creeps while a HEALING CLASS can't survive standing in a group of freeps to heal, it just seems silly, why would you question that? it's logical: cause you're not supposed to stand in a group of freeps, cause you have inductions and won't be able to heal one bit... it's like asking why can't a hunter stand in the middle of 5 creeps and get a hit off while a reaver can? answer: cause one has inductions and is supposed to stand at range, and one is a melee class and is supposed to stand next to the enemy just to be able to hit it...

tho I'm not gonna bother replying unless someone actually posts with logic...

oh and lastly I don't disagree there Stoff, but it's about the classes not the store the defiler can also pop a storebrand... same thing, try playing a champ without storebrands in the pew pew in between stab and TA, try it especially when sprint is on cd, you're gonna have a lot of fun, trying to reach your target

No point arguing with you tbh, you know that champs are OP and so does everyone. With or without that brand.

Originally Posted by Enska

loooooooool, so not true... let's clear this out, yes if the champ has CBR or a brand or anything otherwise it'll die within seconds all you need is 1, yes only 1 well timed stun...

Try using your brand before doing it and having all your hots up and you'll be able to do the same, unless you get all the focussed fire, in which case a champ also dies brand or no brand

Stop trolling people. You know full well the survivability of champs is beyond ridiculous.

A champ (or certainly none of the ones on this server) rarely find themselves in a group of creeps without a few bubbles and sprint off CD. Dont sit here telling creeps that we just need to use brains to kill champs , its insulting. Im not a noob, i know exactly when i need to time stuns .... but 3 bubbles and a 45 seconds of constant 125% run speed is not often killable before the champ has ran his way back behind the minstrel front line. With a store brand there is literally no way to kill them unless they have come too far out ... freeps have pulled too far back or theyve been caught with sprint on CD ... these are literally the only examples of when neth and mel die in ettens.

AND

will people stop ******* complaining about people complaining. WT.F do you think a forum is for. Nobody is going to come around and give you a shiny *well done for not QQing medal* .... if somethins ****ed you off, you bring it up on the forum. LIKE THIS.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

Are people here comparing the combat capabilities of a defiler and a champ? That sounds like comparing the capabilities of a fork and a rhinocerous.

You can compare a fork and a rhinoceros. For example, you can stick a fork in an electrical socket and die, while a rhinocerous wouldn't do the same. Also, you can't use a rhinocerous to eat your dinner. Forks don't smell, either.