Thread: Petition: Please assign lore-appropriate names when forced renaming!

During our time with Turbine, I have been pleased to see that tickets are being answered quicker and the role-playing and naming policies are being enforced. However, there is one issue I need to address.

I have reported a few names which have clearly been inappropriate, only to find that very character has been renamed something just as inappropriate. I have witnessed people in my gaming circle being renamed from something which is perfectly acceptable in the world of Tolkien (such as an Elf having a Quenya name), to a name that screams generic fantasy, which clearly has no place within the game's setting.

I ask that the Game Masters please consider each rename carefully. It doesn't take much effort at all to assign someone a Tolkienesque name, or establish whether the current name is appropriate. Please, use common sense.

Feel free to sign if you agree, add to it if need be.

/Signed! There are enough lore inappropriate names running around for GM's to deal with without clearly appropriate names being changed!

/signed.

It is getting silly. I can understand the business nature of the game, that time == money for those in charge of answering tickets and how rename tokens mean income for Turbine, but the current way of handling the matter just makes me think "greed wins yet again". A shame.

Agreed and /signed.

/signed

Seeing as we are provided some guidelines for naming a character when we make them maybe those renaming should look at the same guidelines. As we all know games are meant to be fun. And this whole process when the player feels the name-change is undeserved is counter-productive to what might be called fun. So in all due respect I say that they should revise their policy on this issue.

That is my reasoning, hope it is accepted.

/ Signed

It takes no real effort to find a tolkien name, in fact use the name generator in the game.

But when you start renaming lore true names, and on the RP server, someone is overdoing their job, or abusing it.

/signed

After being through the mill of renaming and buying a ticket to rename after being given a worse name then the one i was reported for (turned out it was changed due to someone thinking it being a sexual reference *rolls his eyes*) I heartilly add my signature to this document.
Turbine does listen and follow things up and send you emails to queries unlike other games out there at least Turbine has some sort of customer relations so i urge folk to always send a query if you think your being hard done by. Their responses are polite and leave you feeling a valued customer and give you peace of mind.

/signed

As it stands, it seems that the GM's who rename the inappropriate, simply take the names from one of those useless 'Name Generators' instead of actually looking into properly constructing lore-appropriate names.

My perfectly reasonable, lore-appropriate name and one I had used since last beta and on the test server, Makalaure, was changed today to URNRATREN, a name that I consider completely inappropriate. I have been essentially punched in the gut by someone who, before speaking to me about the name, decided to report me as violating the naming policy.

When I first joined the initial beta (2006) my name was Maglor, recognizable as a Silmarillion name by those Silmarillion geeks (including myself) in the game. At the time that name did not break any naming policy at Turbine and of course I was not roleplaying but testing. When the game went live I changed my name to Makalaure which is quenya for the same character except with a k instead of a hard c, as a "mother-name", it would not be known by more than the immediate family. This is still not a naming policy violation. This name was never in any of JRR Tokien's works. It is hardly going to break anyone's immersion to see the name in game. My bio is vague and my roleplay is reticent. I am a roleplayer and a musician both in game and out. It is my enjoyment to have my character intensely involved in the music system as Makalaure, to create original songs and to organize other musicians for the purpose of roleplay and music. I also enjoy teaching Elven history and because I am an old Elf it makes this possible. How someone can report my character name because of their personal judgment as to what they consider against the lore is perplexing to me. Then for the GMs to give me a name completely out of any context of Quenya or Sindarin is beyond comprehension. AND to add insult to injury to give me the pat answers I have gotten... well, let me stop here before this turns into more of a rant.

I love all that Tolkien wrote and also all his son brought forth, I have loved Arda since I read my first book published in 1967 and I have been involved in the game since it was Middle-earth online. When Laurelin came into Turbine's stable I happily created my character here, I have made many friends and my roleplay has been enjoyable, until this morning when I logged in. Again I wished the person who reported my name would have inquired of me what my goals were, and why I chose the name. I may have changed their mind about my use of the name. Please, you who choose to report names, consider what you are doing and discuss with the one you want to report the reason they chose the name. Don't make assumptions, just communicate.

So to sum up... /signed for lore-appropriate names or using the old "renamed" policy to allow for each person to pick his or her own name.

Also, please add a means to enable the return of the original name rather than pat answers with no recourse that makes you feel like some criminal.

Originally Posted by Laurefinde

Again I wished the person who reported my name would have inquired of me what my goals were, and why I chose the name. I may have changed their mind about my use of the name. Please, you who choose to report names, consider what you are doing and discuss with the one you want to report the reason they chose the name. Don't make assumptions, just communicate.

So to sum up... /signed for lore-appropriate names or using the old "renamed" policy to allow for each person to pick his or her own name.

Also, please add a means to enable the return of the original name rather than pat answers with no recourse that makes you feel like some criminal.

I mean this only as guesswork, but mayhaps it was due to your name being a translation of an Epic Silmarillion Character, that was the cause of the rename?

I mean not to criticise, either. But I know naught of your character's tale, and even less of his true name's meaning.

Yet Andarne, there is somebody running around with the Quenya name of a key character from the Silmarillion. This person's name has been reported numerous times and has not been changed. If they're going to do it to one, do it to all? =/

Originally Posted by Glingaeron

I mean this only as guesswork, but mayhaps it was due to your name being a translation of an Epic Silmarillion Character, that was the cause of the rename?

I mean not to criticise, either. But I know naught of your character's tale, and even less of his true name's meaning.

I wouldn't assume criticism at all, only discussion and respect. Thanks for that.

The point I would like to make is that if a person is roleplaying, even if the character was an old Elf, the Elf would not associate my lore-appropriate name with a character in the Silmarillion, Elven history, or otherwise. Now I have seen Fëanor and Fëanáro, and even Fingolfin and Nolofinwë traipsing around in game, sometimes even on roleplay servers, and I can see that might be a reason to report a player, or at least talk to the player to find out what goes. I do find it amusing. Those characters died in the 1st age and would not be alive in the 3rd age. I very rarely report any name. Those that I have reported are suggestive or illegal.

I do believe Turbine's naming policy is a good one - unless it is abused. I want to see the way name reports are handled done with consideration of all parties.

For lore-appropriateness, there needs to be some middle ground. In the tightest, all names should be proper Sindarin. (When was the last time anyone has introduced themselves to you in Latin?) However, as this is, still, a game, all known Elvish should be alright, simply because finding a good name on a developed server can be quite challenging.

The GMs, however, cannot be expected to be Sindarin specialists, unfortunately. As for the game's own name generator, it is not very good, and will end up with monstrosities such as the one Laurefinde experienced. While the old policy of using a placeholder name and then offering to select another name, perhaps this could be considered customer service for "VIP" customers? Now, I have to admit that I have not learned by heart the TOS of these boards, so I don't know how much we are actually allowed to discuss GM actions - I assume that we are actually not allowed to do that.

As for Laurefinde / Makalaure, if you want to "keep your name", have you checked if any proper Sindarin translation for "Macalauro"* is free? Using the root maeg- gets likely too close to "Maglor", but, say, "Glorenhad" ("golden cleaver", glaur->gloren "like the golden light of Laurelin" + hâdh archaic, poetic "cleaver"). After all, the meanings of the Noldor exile names in Quenya are known to be somewhat later "explanations" for their not-quite-Sindarin names.

*) -wë is a man, but otherwise, -o is the male suffix, and -ë may denote a female. Of course, we'd need to know the time and version of the language used if we were to know if his parents thought that Maglor was a bit girly.

/signed as well.

Personally, I would really like to have the mods at least take a personal interest - contact the player instead of just anonymously changing the name. It can't be so hard to write a few lines of explanation instead of just giving a player the rude awakening of a very random name next time he/she logs in.

What, did you get reporded? But your name fits perfectly....

/signed to the topic

It looks like that everybody can make rename the name of anybody becasue they don't look if it fits or not in the lore...

/signed

I think only real rubbish names should be changed right away. Absolutely ridiculous, what's wrong with the name Makalaure???

/signed

I think the namechanging is sometimes a little cynical tbh.
Of course I understand namechanges of obvious reasons, where further explanation should not be nessessary.
But sometimes is puzzles me that Lore-appropriate names get a namechange out of sudden, then I hope there is given some good explanation behind it, otherwise it will be to strange for me, and it will create unsecurity for people.
My theory is often that this is attached to a the fact that we are so many different countries in this game on Laurelin, with differet cultures and languages.
Myself I often see "lore-appropriate" names that means nasty things in Norwegian, but I would never consider to report because of that. If the name has a good sound to it, that is good enough for me.

I would rather see that GM checked the reporters history + the one that get reported to see if there is a pattern somewhere. Some people find great satisfaction to make life worse to their fellow players, and a namechange is perhaps the the most awful thing that can happen, it can ruin the whole characters identity.
I know this will be way to timeconsuming for GM, but I am thinking on people that got their name changed that contact GM afterwards with their arguments. Then GM should check things more closely atleast.

Originally Posted by Cymaru

I think only real rubbish names should be changed right away.

Agree.

I thought the point of the name policy in the first place was to minimise the number of 'Wtfpwner' and 'Yourmumlol' characters rather than to enforce super serious lore/linguistic adherence.

I have the unproved theory that they change everything that its reported.

*waves*

As Achy said, Laurelin is home for many different people from many different countries , a lore-breaking name for me could turn out to be a perfectly fine name in the country of that player. Having a name changed can be very traumatic for any gamer, and even more so for a RPer that has probably worked hard on his/her character. I am personally very tolerant . I think only really silly names like Ciberpunkelf and the like should be immediately changed...those individuals tend to be confined to the starting areas and are often rolling on the server just to troll a bit....and as all trolls they just disappear as the sun comes up.

I do agree though that when a renamed is forced it should be at least done properly so...

/signed

/signed as well.

I very rarely report names and only do so if they are so obviously not lore appropriate like the others mentioned.

Originally Posted by Laurefinde

My perfectly reasonable, lore-appropriate name and one I had used since last beta and on the test server, Makalaure, was changed today to URNRATREN, a name that I consider completely inappropriate. I have been essentially punched in the gut by someone who, before speaking to me about the name, decided to report me as violating the naming policy.

I am so sorry, Makalaure. That's really terrible!

Originally Posted by Glingaeron

I mean this only as guesswork, but mayhaps it was due to your name being a translation of an Epic Silmarillion Character, that was the cause of the rename?

That would be my guess, too.

Originally Posted by Laurefinde

Those characters died in the 1st age and would not be alive in the 3rd age.

Looks like Glorfindel brought some friends with him that we didn't know of. (That is if you accept the one Glorfindel story from HOME.) I wonder how Fëanor got an early parole from the Halls of Waiting? According to the ancient records he was due to spend quite a long time contemplating his misdeeds. Do you think he may have received time off for good behavior? No, I don't, either.

Originally Posted by Cymaru

I think only real rubbish names should be changed right away.

/agree

Chapter II of the name change game:
Someone else has my removed name now. Makalaure - level 11 Elf Guardian
How can this be? How will I get it back if another has taken it in the interim? *Mind Boggles*

Originally Posted by Laurefinde

Chapter II of the name change game:
Someone else has my removed name now. Makalaure - level 11 Elf Guardian
How can this be? How will I get it back if another has taken it in the interim? *Mind Boggles*

That seems... really unlikely. It's almost as if someone reported your name so they could take it. I might ask in your appeal if that could be investigated.

Originally Posted by Isilmewen

I have the unproved theory that they change everything that its reported.

Sorry, but I know that is false. I've recently reported what must have been a vampire elf - their name was that of a major clan in White Wolf's Vampire. I can report they are still walking around with their copyrighted name.

/signed a thousands times over!

i am Gob smacked Macalaure!!!
We all knew the naming policys on Laurelin are alot stricter but this is getting right out of hand, especially when lore appropriate names are being changed while others are being nodded to, winked at and waved over!
Change unappropriate names by all means but changeing lore appropriate names is just wrong and will cause many folk to think again about playing on Laurelin, especially when you are left feeling like a criminal.
I am not a lore junky, Ive read some of Tolkiens work but i dont know the name of Elronds chamber servant and i apologies in advance if ive named a charachter after him. As long as a name is appropriate and not "imUber" or some rubbish i think a bit of lee way and common sense should prevail.

And before anyone calls me a hypocrite I learnt from my mistake copped it on the chin, ignored the name calling and insults to my intellect and moved on. One of my names in hindsight yes wasnt a god pick and changed, rightly so, But what in world is lore breaking about the name Makalaure/Macalaure??

Another update, the level 11 character just created with my name is not on the server anymore. Maybe the GMs do listen or maybe the character is anonymous? We do have to do something about this rename business. No answer to my appeals yet, it will probably be Monday before they can get around to it. Meanwhile I will be Urnratren and Elves will have a good laugh.

You folks go through a lot over your names. I wish that the devs paid more attention to truly offensive names and kinships and less time to giving a hard time to those who have names they may never have heard f.

Yeah we do. Our names are part of the characters we create and it's hard to sever the bond between the character and his or her name. It is a definite loss for some of us.

The worst part of the "new" naming policies is that by not giving a free rename they're essentially taking a character hostage and demanding that you spend points in the Store to make the character playable again.

Good luck with the appeals!

This seems quite bad situation especially after what happened to Makalure. In my opinion they should at least use the name generator in character creation screen when there is forced name change. Best would be of course that they let use make the new name for the character or let people use the name generator of the game for new name.

I think part of the problem is down to some GMs not knowing about the roleplaying policy due to Turbine not having roleplaying servers until they took over the European ones. I've reported a number of names that don't stick to the lore (names taken from other fiction, ordinary words that wouldn't be used as names, etc.) only to see these characters still walking around because apparently the GM doesn't know that on roleplaying servers all names must be lore-appropriate. If I quote this part of the roleplaying policy in a ticket it goes unanswered. I've now decided to stop reporting anything (character names, inappropriate conduct, chat violations, etc.) for fear of getting banned for submitting an excessive amount of tickets that GMs don't think violates the policy. I'll resume when Turbine employ people that understand that the roleplaying servers have different rules than the non-roleplaying ones.

/signed

An unjust procedure that appears to penalise those with more lore knowledge than the GM's and take no account of a character RP back story. In my opinion the guidelines should be interpreted in a broad way to mean so long as it isn't obviously stupid, trolling or pop culture it should be acceptable. I don't care if they are subtle variants on tolkein names, or if they are names from obscure mythology, or ancient historical figures or whatever. If they look and sound okay that is fine with me. And the dropping of the free rename token just smacks of financial opportunism. At the very least there should be some GM player interaction unless the offender is an obvious troll.

/signed

They should bring in the same policy that Codemasters had; you contacted the GM and had to pick three names you were happy to play with. Then they picked one of the three and the job was done.

/signed

I would also like to point out that although this is a Laurelin specific problem (naming policy enforcement) the correct place for suggestions is in the Suggestions forum.

A second copy of this thread (or at least a link-thread pointing here) should be made so that the GMs can be made aware of this topics existance.


As to having your name changed from a lore appropriate name to a non-lore name without recourse, this is tantamount to blackmail.

On a RP server many of us have not only built our character in level but also in stature (the character has developed, changed, adapted and become "alive").

An integral part of this is the establishment of "Name"; whilst on other servers "making a Name for yourself" is based on deeds, gear and in-game prowess on an RP server the "Name" is built through interaction in character without external meta-gaming.

In this case meta-gaming would be to read the character name and any title associated and apply it into game without first being introduced to the character.

This immersion is a powerful part of RP, when we know a character we are able to recognise them and interact as such. If we don't know them we react as strangers would, even if the character is an alt of a close friend.

When a name is changed the character is changed. The character loses not only its name but also its "Name".
To reinstate "Name" you have to re-establish the character as the previous name by breaking immersion announcing who you were or by purchasing a name change to have an approximate name to the previous one and put a "blob bio*" in place in the hope that others will read and undertand your link to the previous name. This is meta-gaming yet again and is rarely done.



The naming policy is at the core of the original RP ideals for the EU servers when they were established.
This random renaming of established, lore appropriate names has called into question the integrity of the Global Service. It is suggested that the renaming is to increase sales in the Lotro-store.
I understand that this is a business and as such has to make money to survive, however if in order to make money a form of digital blackmail is being used this is underhand and unacceptable.

A new middle ground must be sought.
A character who has been reported should have an asterisk placed after their name to denote a reported name.
A character who has had their name reported should have the right to appeal.
If an adaquate reason is given for the original name the name should remain in place.
If not the name should be chosen to fit into the Lore.
This should be free of charge.
The name when removed from a character should not be allowed back into the "naming pool" for another player to choose and use.
The name shall be held "in limbo" pending the outcome of the appeal.
If after the appeal the name is deamed to be lore-breaking/offensive it should be placed on the banned list for the server.


*"Blob bio" a non-RP statement within a biography to explain RL conditions i.e. "Player has young children and may AFK without warning"

Originally Posted by Kongas

I don't care if they are subtle variants on tolkein names, or if they are names from obscure mythology, or ancient historical figures or whatever. If they look and sound okay that is fine with me.

It's hard to imagine any rule that could allow for 'subtle' variants without also allowing unsubtle ones. People's notions of what's obscure may differ, too. (In practice, if you choose something obscure enough then it'll be fine, I can vouch for that myself).

Originally Posted by Vestrinexx

/signed

I would also like to point out that although this is a Laurelin specific problem (naming policy enforcement) the correct place for suggestions is in the Suggestions forum.

A second copy of this thread (or at least a link-thread pointing here) should be made so that the GMs can be made aware of this topics existance.

Done. Thanks for reminding me to do so!

Sometimes even a Hobbit can help and Elf *grin*

/signed

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