Thread: Your Tanking Build?

I think around 1400-1500 ICPR with food and buffs would be the minimum for effectiveness. I currently sit at 1400 ICPR unbuffed in Conservation for my raid build, but can boost that to 1700 unbuffed for situations where power is less managed such as 3-mans(no LM, no banner, etc).

Since the name of the thread is ''Your Tanking Build'' I'll re-post my build. The lorebook tends to miss something here or there due to gear hotswapping, but this is the build I use for raid tanking:

Stats
Morale: 8861 (648 ICMR)
Power: 2636 (1414 ICPR)
M/A/V: 621/575/607
B/E/P: 3755/3266/2532 (12.7%/11.2%/8.9%)
Melee Def: 3812 (12.9%)
Inc Healing: 4636 (15%)
Common Mit: 5702 (36.9%)
Crit Def: 2860

Gear
Necklace: Mirhigil (grandfathered version)
Earrings: 2x Sarenzer [NCF T1/T2 Thadur]
Bracelets: 2x Bracelet of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Rings: 2x Ring of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Pocket: Sailor's Charm [Inn of the Forsaken - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Shield: Superb Warden's Shield of Lothlorien [Lothlorien Crit Crafted]
Helmet: Spear-Shaker's Helm [Helegrod Set]
Shoulders: Defender of the West Shoulders [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Chest: Spear-Shaker's Jacket [Helegrod Set]
Gloves: Defender of the West Gauntlets [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Leggings: Spear-Shaker's Leggings [Helegrod Set]
Boots: Defender of the West Boots [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Cloak: Cloak of Shadow and Flame [Instance: New Devilry]

(A Race of Man Warden with the same build would look slightly better, with -20 Might but +5% Incoming Healing)


(Side note: I really wish they'd let us put those Melee Defense scrolls on our Javelins so it could be freed up elsewhere like a virtue or a shield swap)

Virtues: Empathy, Innocence, Valour, Discipline, Zeal (Last 2 get swapped for tac/rgd/shadow mit etc as needed)

That's all current gear not necessarily ideal gear. I'll wear 5 OD T2 and Helegrod Helm when I can get my hands on the rest of the set, which might necessitate some changes in other places. The javelin is hybrid tank/solo, if I make a FA tanking javelin with 3-4 majors it will look different in terms of legacies. The spear, well it's common knowledge that spear legacies are terribad, and since I have capped stats and Will/Fate legacies seem like a cop out I took what I felt was the best of the worst. Would have liked a 4th major for Recklessness Attack Dur over Jav Range but alas.

I'm contemplating trading the -% Power Attack for a Legacy of Fate but I don't know the exact calculations. The Power legacy, if you use a 3-bleed rotation with masteries and not compensating for other power reductions, saves 17 power, reducing it from 609 power to 592 power. That's 17 power saved over a 15s pure DPS rotation, far less when using bleeds only intermittently. It would seem that even in the max bleed scenario the Fate might give more power back than the legacy reduces. Kinda sad really...

Originally Posted by Jacbo

I think around 1400-1500 ICPR with food and buffs would be the minimum for effectiveness. I currently sit at 1400 ICPR unbuffed in Conservation for my raid build, but can boost that to 1700 unbuffed for situations where power is less managed such as 3-mans(no LM, no banner, etc).

Since the name of the thread is ''Your Tanking Build'' I'll re-post my build. The lorebook tends to miss something here or there due to gear hotswapping, but this is the build I use for raid tanking:

Stats
Morale: 8861 (648 ICMR)
Power: 2636 (1414 ICPR)
M/A/V: 621/575/607
B/E/P: 3755/3266/2532 (12.7%/11.2%/8.9%)
Melee Def: 3812 (12.9%)
Inc Healing: 4636 (15%)
Common Mit: 5702 (36.9%)
Crit Def: 2860

Gear
Necklace: Mirhigil (grandfathered version)
Earrings: 2x Sarenzer [NCF T1/T2 Thadur]
Bracelets: 2x Bracelet of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Rings: 2x Ring of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Pocket: Sailor's Charm [Inn of the Forsaken - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Shield: Superb Warden's Shield of Lothlorien [Lothlorien Crit Crafted]
Helmet: Spear-Shaker's Helm [Helegrod Set]
Shoulders: Defender of the West Shoulders [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Chest: Spear-Shaker's Jacket [Helegrod Set]
Gloves: Defender of the West Gauntlets [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Leggings: Spear-Shaker's Leggings [Helegrod Set]
Boots: Defender of the West Boots [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Cloak: Cloak of Shadow and Flame [Instance: New Devilry]

(A Race of Man Warden with the same build would look slightly better, with -20 Might but +5% Incoming Healing)


(Side note: I really wish they'd let us put those Melee Defense scrolls on our Javelins so it could be freed up elsewhere like a virtue or a shield swap)

Virtues: Empathy, Innocence, Valour, Discipline, Zeal (Last 2 get swapped for tac/rgd/shadow mit etc as needed)

That's all current gear not necessarily ideal gear. I'll wear 5 OD T2 and Helegrod Helm when I can get my hands on the rest of the set, which might necessitate some changes in other places. The javelin is hybrid tank/solo, if I make a FA tanking javelin with 3-4 majors it will look different in terms of legacies. The spear, well it's common knowledge that spear legacies are terribad, and since I have capped stats and Will/Fate legacies seem like a cop out I took what I felt was the best of the worst. Would have liked a 4th major for Recklessness Attack Dur over Jav Range but alas.

I'm contemplating trading the -% Power Attack for a Legacy of Fate but I don't know the exact calculations. The Power legacy, if you use a 3-bleed rotation with masteries and not compensating for other power reductions, saves 17 power, reducing it from 609 power to 592 power. That's 17 power saved over a 15s pure DPS rotation, far less when using bleeds only intermittently. It would seem that even in the max bleed scenario the Fate might give more power back than the legacy reduces. Kinda sad really...

My gear is pretty comparable but my relics are:
Extraordinary Setting of Beginnings(650 Melee Defense, 114 icpr, 20 Vitality)
Extraordinary Gem of Faith(+10% Partial Block, Parry Mitigation, 520 Block, 200 Morale)
Extraordinary Rune of Courage(+10% Partial Evade, Parry Mitigation, 20 Agility, 520 Parry)
and
Extraordinary Setting of Stability(-5% Item Wear Chance, 260 Block, Parry, Evade, 1300 Incoming Healing)
Extraordinary Gem of Hope (260 Crit Defense, 230 Morale, 210 Power)
Subtle Rune of the Fortress(1040 Incoming Healing, 520 Block)

I cap inc healing (20%) with the hele helm and this set up. I really need to suck it up and give turbine there 1000TP for the settings.

Originally Posted by Mysterion

My gear is pretty comparable but my relics are:
Extraordinary Setting of Beginnings(650 Melee Defense, 114 icpr, 20 Vitality)
Extraordinary Gem of Faith(+10% Partial Block, Parry Mitigation, 520 Block, 200 Morale)
Extraordinary Rune of Courage(+10% Partial Evade, Parry Mitigation, 20 Agility, 520 Parry)
and
Extraordinary Setting of Stability(-5% Item Wear Chance, 260 Block, Parry, Evade, 1300 Incoming Healing)
Extraordinary Gem of Hope (260 Crit Defense, 230 Morale, 210 Power)
Subtle Rune of the Fortress(1040 Incoming Healing, 520 Block)

I cap inc healing (20%) with the hele helm and this set up. I really need to suck it up and give turbine there 1000TP for the settings.

Yeah the store settings are quite nice, I saw them on someone else and shelled out the TP almost instantly. Could be arguably the most Warden friendly gear component in the game, if you threw some crit def on there as well I'd wonder if I was making a deal with Sauron. I also like piling the Inc Healing on the LIs because it's one stat that is always useful and never needs to be swapped out for a tank, which given the nature of LIs as being quite static is a good thing.

Originally Posted by SkateDr

Technically not true.

Case 1: Raid environment where somebody other than a person in your fellowship has agro
Case 2: All members in the fellowship are at full health (over healing generates 0 agro)

Being a bit nit-picky I know, but wanted to make sure you were aware of these scenarios too.

Case 1: I do not believe this to be true. If group one's Guardian is at the top of the threat list and group two's hunter is 2nd on the threat list, healing the hunter should generate aggro. AFAIK, Mobs don't care what group you are in (or if you're grouped at all) when assessing threat.

Case 2: Addressed below.

Originally Posted by MordecaiKell

The qoutes you comment apply to only exceptions. Most mobs abide by normal agro formula.

As you comment there are expcetions. Normally the mobs that act differently will be some swarms (pale ones in some instances) or will have some icon to indicate that they behave differently (Trolls in Rift).
I think that being so few and exceptionaly they should only be accounted in the places where they appear and special strategies for that encounter should be done.

This is not my understanding. I'm not talking about random aggro or scripted aggro (in boss fights).

Comments by both Rask and Graal have led me to believe that they can (and do) tweak aggro mechanics 'under the hood' to allow some mobs to consider healing threat a greater threat (or hate Captains) without any icon at all. It is possible I have misunderstood or am misremembering, but I'm not sure there is any feasible way to test this.

Regardless, I'm fairly confident that it (if it does occur) is more the exception than the rule and stated so above.

Originally Posted by MordecaiKell

- Heal agro will only count if there is damage to heal. Over heal do not count for agro. In single target scenarios conviction only adds heal agro for you (the tank) and only if you are not topped.

- Heal agro will only count if player has agro generated. If conviction heals a player that has not generated agro yet to that mobs, it will not generate agro.

- Healing a player with 0 agro but in agro list will move you up in the agro list but with 0 (or near 0) agro.

So having heal to conviction is good bonus (but not OPd) since it helps a bit with healing but also because it helps sticking the non egangeds mobs and low damaged mobs to the tank.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be contridicting yourself. You claim that heal aggro only counts if a player has aggro generated but healing a player with 0 aggro moves you up the aggro list.

It is my understanding that every character in combat with a particular Mob has >0 aggro due to (at least) perceived threat. Perhaps this isn't always the case given that there are aggro transfer skills as well as aggro-lowering skills, and if so, would healing someone with 0 aggro generate aggro or not?

My assumption is that healing someone with 0 aggro still generates heal-aggro but the transfer portion of Conviction does not transfer anything -- or more accurately, transfers 0 aggro. Is this not the case?

As far as 'over-healing', I have seen many times where aggro transfers when a HOT ticks even when someone has a (seemingly) full bar. When my RK partner spam heals me prior to combat it certainly seems like his perceived threat is much higher when combat begins than if he doesn't. Moreover, there have been many many times when a Defiler's HOT has pulled aggro off me in the 'moors -- seemingly before I have taken any damage to heal.

It is possible, I suppose, that it isn't the heal itself that generates aggro but the heal puts the Defiler in combat and his perceived threat is greater than the aggro I have generated. It doesn't explain the RK scenario, but that could just be faulty perception on my part.

As I said before, I'm not much of a tester. I'm not saying you're wrong -- odds are great that I am the one mistaken. I did, though, want to point out where my perception is differing from yours in hopes of some additional clarity.

(Your usage of the word perceived threat and the general accepted definition do not match. I understand what you meant, but you might want to fix that).

Case 1: I do not believe this to be true. If group one's Guardian is at the top of the threat list and group two's hunter is 2nd on the threat list, healing the hunter should generate aggro. AFAIK, Mobs don't care what group you are in (or if you're grouped at all) when assessing threat.

I disagree with this, because I've seen(and performed) tests that say that you only generate threat when healing the mob's target. I've also heard people with anecdotal evidence that says this isn't true. I stopped caring when I lost my test subjects, but it was never resolved last for me.(However, I agree that which group you are in should not affect threat)

As far as overhealing, I seriously doubt it generates threat. I've seen plenty of testing that supports the claim that it generates no threat, and nothing to the contrary.

The only reason what group you are in is because only in a raid environment can you have a chance of not healing someone who has agro. All others, if they are in your range, you will be healing them.

As to the rest, I have tested this extensively with healers and unless they have serious discrepancy in mechanics between warden heals/mini heals/rk heals/cpt heals where the last 3 have all tested out the same in this regard, overhealing does not generate agro. As an example, tank takes on 2 mobs but does nominal threat to 2nd mob. I get agro on my healer. Tank pulls it off me but does not additional threat to it after it goes to him. I spam heal myself to full and then some. I do not get agro back because I am not the agro target. Continuing on with that example, I get agro on the mob as a healer and spam heal myself above and beyond what dmg I am taking. Tank gets agro back once his threat exceeds the actual dmg I took. These are tests that I have run. The only thing I have not had time to test extensively is how much threat does the heal from conviction actually generate. But as soon as I find another person willing and the time to test it, I plan on testing that. Of course, it is an assumption on how much because the testing on DoW threat leach (which would match convictions) was not a large enough sample size for my taste and as such, I dont' have a high degree of faith in it.

edit - missed the contradiction you quoted with a pesron having 0 agro but in the list and indeed it is an apparent one but true. The only thing I can say is that you must also have 0 agro but be moved ahead of the person on the list as I have seen this happen just as I have seen overhealing not generage agro. Maybe it generates only 1 agro? Almost never enough to grab it back in a real situation beyond an initial pull ....

Originally Posted by Valinus

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be contridicting yourself. You claim that heal aggro only counts if a player has aggro generated but healing a player with 0 aggro moves you up the aggro list.

I do not know how they do it under the hood.
Point is, if some player has not generated damage agro and you heal them (some buffs count same way as healing) , mob will attack you.

But then any small damage will remove the mobs from you, regardless of the time you have been healing.

It is easy to test with RK and pet rock. Normal "pet tanking" procedure requires that you place the rock before hand and all the extra mobs that you are not attacking will go for the rock.

No matter how much time you let them attack the rock, a single autoattack from you will peel off the mob from the rock and it will attack you.

So pet rock is not continuously generating agro, it only caused the mobs to switch the initial agro.

If yoo have a HoT on you mobs will not go for pet rock.

That is the reason why in all mobs will go to healer unless engaged but they will normally be easily removed by a single AOE attack.

Originally Posted by Mysterion

How are you guys accomplishing this? Specifically what relics, jewelry armor pieces. I run at around 1100 before food and buffs. I can get to 1400 sacrificing some morale - but nowhere close to 1600-1700. I've been working on trying to get a ICPR build for those runs without a captain/LM.

Here ya go
The highest in power is with two Glowing aureate. I usually always use one of each. Glowing and Brawling.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1433/finisheda.jpg

Originally Posted by BelegShy

Here ya go
The highest in power is with two Glowing aureate. I usually always use one of each. Glowing and Brawling.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1433/finisheda.jpg

Do you where the GA of Power or Morale?

Originally Posted by Mysterion

Do you where the GA of Power or Morale?

T he ones from back in the days before they change them. Dunno what it its but it has
20agi
20 fate
20 vit
97.2 inc power
176 morale

Originally Posted by BelegShy

T he ones from back in the days before they change them. Dunno what it its but it has
20agi
20 fate
20 vit
97.2 inc power
176 morale

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Item:...rmlet_of_Power
http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Item:...mlet_of_Morale

I think those are the two options now. I swap to the armlet of morale and drop the padlock sometimes. I think my major ICPR problems are coming from my relics.