Thread: Attack Duration: An Important Guide for Maximizing Champion DPS

From experience both in-game and on the forums, attack duration seems to be one of the least understood aspects of the champion class. This is unfortunate, because it also happens to be one of the most important issues for any champ that cares about their dps. I will now address 5 common misconceptions concerning attack duration, and in an attempt to limit the wall-of-text-ness, I will separate them into different posts.

Misconception #1: Clobber can shorten a skill's attack duration

The first point I need to talk about is the very common misconception that clobber has an effect on attack duration. It does not. For example, we all know that if you hit clobber right after brutal strikes, the animation of brutal strikes is cut off, and all the damage is pushed out at once. However, whenever this is done, there is a period of "lag" after the clobber, preventing any more skills from going off. It is just as if the animation for brutal strikes is still going on in the background.

Consider the following 2 rotations:
1. SS-WA-BS-SS
2. SS-WA-BS-CB-SS

The misconception is that 2 will execute faster than 1, as brutal is being interrupted. However, in reality these two rotations take the exact same length of time. You can examine these two timestamped parses:

1. SS-WA-BS-SS (2h)

Code:

[0001660.74] Dwalor scored a hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 238 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001662.60] Dwalor scored a devastating hit with Wild Attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 1,037 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001663.47] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 319 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001663.80] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 287 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001664.13] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 299 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001664.79] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 377 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001666.20] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 213 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001666.64] Dwalor scored a hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 333 Westernesse damage to Morale.

Time: 5.90s

2. SS-WA-BS-CB-SS (2h)

Code:

[0001569.78] Dwalor scored a devastating hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 843 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001571.53] Dwalor scored a hit with Wild Attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 324 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001572.51] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 263 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001572.84] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 347 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001572.95] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 353 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001572.95] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 356 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001572.95] Dwalor scored a hit with Clobber on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 215 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001575.02] Dwalor scored a devastating hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 518 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0001575.68] Dwalor scored a hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 347 Westernesse damage to Morale.

Time: 5.90s

The same amount of time is required to execute each rotation. If you carefully examine the second parse, you will notice almost 3 seconds of dead space between the clobber and the last swift strike. Note that other immediate skills like battle frenzy and sudden defence, and fast skills such as red haze and merciful strike, ignore this dead space, and can still be used. However, the attack duration timer on brutal strikes is still ticking away in the background, and it must finish before any of your normal rotational skills can be used again.

This is no different for a dual-wield setup:

1. SS-WA-BS-SS (DW)

Code:

[0002168.86] Dwalor scored a hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 258 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002169.62] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 119 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002169.62] Dwalor scored a devastating hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 224 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002170.39] Dwalor scored a hit with Wild Attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 254 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002170.60] Dwalor scored a hit with Wild Attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 244 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002171.37] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 140 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002171.37] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 107 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002171.59] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 195 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002172.02] Dwalor scored a critical hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 629 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002172.79] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 201 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002173.55] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 134 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002173.56] Dwalor scored a devastating hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 224 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002173.77] Dwalor scored a hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 256 Westernesse damage to Morale.

Time: 4.91s

2. SS-WA-BS-CB-SS

Code:

[0002072.45] Dwalor scored a hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 191 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002072.78] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 149 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002072.78] Dwalor scored a devastating hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 224 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002073.98] Dwalor scored a hit with Wild Attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 226 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002074.19] Dwalor scored a hit with Wild Attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 153 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002074.96] Dwalor scored a critical hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 244 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002074.96] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 123 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002075.18] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 260 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002075.29] Dwalor scored a hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 279 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002075.29] Dwalor scored a critical hit with Brutal Strikes on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 641 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002075.29] Dwalor scored a hit with Clobber on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 240 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002076.60] Dwalor scored a hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 172 Westernesse damage to Morale.
[0002076.60] Dwalor scored a critical hit with a melee attack on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 224 Beleriand damage to Morale.
[0002077.36] Dwalor scored a hit with Swift Strike on Ilzkâl the Pummeler for 247 Westernesse damage to Morale.

Time: 4.91s

The above is not unique to the brutal-clobber combination. It holds true no matter what you skill you decide to interrupt. I have only used brutal as an example as it seems to be the skill most commonly tied in with clobber.

I am not trying to build a case against the use of clobber in a rotation. It is an excellent skill, and great for putting out more damage in the same length of time. But that is a different discussion, as the purpose of this guide is not to tell you what rotation or weapon setup to use, but merely to tell you how certain skills are behaving.

Misconception #2: Flurry benefits the two-hander more than dual-wield

Another popular mistake is the idea flurry is important for the two-hander, but not as important for dual-wield. The common support of this is that since the two-hander is slower, the -20% attack duration from flurry is shaving off more time from each skill than when used with a dual-wield setup. While this is true, the argument fails to take in the fact that dual-wield gets off more skills than the two-hander. Consider this simplified example:

A two-hander does 100 damage every 1 second. The dps is 100/1 = 100.
Dual-wield does 50 damage every 0.5 seconds. The dps is 50/0.5 = 100.

Now apply flurry.

A two-hander does 100 damage every 1*0.8 = 0.8 seconds. The dps is now 100/0.8 = 125.
Dual-wield does 50 damage every 0.5*0.8 = 0.4 seconds. The dps is now 50/0.4 = 125.

The dps increase is +25% in both cases. Now you might claim that this is not entirely accurate, as it is ignoring factors such as cooldowns. However, there is virtually no sustainable dps rotation I'm aware of that is actually restricted in this way.

Consider the following rotations:
1. SS-WA-BS-CB-SS (2h)
No flurry: 7.86s
Flurry: 6.33s

The time taken to execute this rotation is longer than the cooldown of any skill within it.

2. SS-WA-RS-CB-SS (DW)
No flurry: 6.23s
Flurry: 5.02s

Again, the time taken to execute this rotation is longer than the cooldown of any skill within it.

Since neither rotation is limited by cooldowns, flurry benefits each equally. Additionally, note that these rotations are quite unrealistic in the ratio of pips consumed to pips produced. Any truly sustainable rotation would be longer than either of these, making cooldowns even less of a factor.

Misconception #3: Attack duration buffs stack additively

This is probably the biggest piece of information I discovered in this study, and it was a misconception that I held for a long time. It seems to be a widely accepted fact, despite an almost complete lack of data supporting it. I can see where the idea comes from, as so many of the other buffs (like melee offence) stack additively, but as far as actual tests go, it’s not the case for attack duration.

What does this mean? Well imagine two attack duration buffs: Flurry (traited, -20%) and war-cry (untraited, -10%). Now apply them both. When someone says they stack additively, they mean you can simply add the two effects together to figure out the overall effect. So if I normally attack at 100% speed, when apply the two buffs I get:

Additive
100% - 20% - 10% = 70%

So after the two buffs you are at 70% of your original attack duration. Now my claim is that this is wrong, and attack duration buffs actually stack multiplicatively. What this means is that the flurry brings you down to 80%, but then war-cry only brings you down 10% of that 80% to a total of 72%. This is written as:

Multiplicative
100% * (0.8) * (0.9) = 72%

At smaller levels, this isn’t very noticeable. Consider the two attack duration runes which are -2.5% each:

Additive:
100% - 2.5% - 2.5% = 95%
Multiplicative:
100% * (0.975) * (0.975) = 95.06%

However, the difference between the two becomes more distinguishable as more buffs are added. Consider the two attack speed runes, traited flurry, and traited war-cry.

Additive:
100% - 2.5% - 2.5% - 20% - 15% = 60%
Multiplicative:
100% * (0.975) * (0.975) * (0.8) * (0.85) = 64.6%

To test this, I timed the attack duration of the rotation SS->WA->BS->CB->SS without any buffs. Then I applied various combinations of attack duration buffs and recorded the new duration of the rotation. The following table indicates the buffs that were applied (marked by a “1”) and the new duration. Then it compares the actual measured multiplier (simply buffed duration divided by unbuffed duration) with the predicted multiplier using both additive and multiplicative methods. As you can see, when the buffs are small there isn’t much difference, but when more are applied, the additive method breaks down and fails to accurately describe what is happening in-game, while the multiplicative method stays on track.



Plotting these values against each other shows it a little clearer I think:



Now I am pretty confident in these results, but if someone can think of a better way of testing this, I'd be up for trying it out.

Misconception #4: -20% attack duration (flurry) provides less than a 20% increase in dps

And there are similar misconceptions about other attack duration buffs. I've often seen people asking if the -2.5% attack duration runes actually increase our dps by all that much.
This idea was dealt with subtly earlier on, when the dps increased from 100 to 125 with the application of flurry. We are used to the fact that most buffs in this game get weaker as we stack them more and more. However, this is not the case with attack duration. As it turns out, there are no diminishing returns with -% attack duration. Why is this?

Imagine for a second that there was a buff that gave us -50% attack duration. That means our attack duration is only 50% of normal. We attack twice as fast, and (ignoring cooldowns) we do double the dps.

Now imagine there was a second buff of -50% attack duration. We were already at 50% attack duration, so taking 50% of that brings our total attack duration down to 25%. We attack twice as fast as we did at -50%, thus doubling our dps again. As you can see, the effectiveness did not decrease with repeated application, so there are no diminishing returns.

Of course, the buffs in the game are not nearly this big, but the concept is still the same. The formula for calculating dps increase due to an attack duration buff can be written as:

Multiplier = 1 / (1 + buff)

For flurry, attack duration = -0.2, which yields:
Multiplier = 1 / (1 - 0.2) = 1 / 0.8 = 1.25
Or a 25% increase in dps. Long story short: always use flurry.

For multiple buffs, say -20% flurry, -15% war-cry, -2.5% rune, -2.5% rune, just apply the above formula multiple times to get:
Multiplier = 1 / [ (1 + buff1) * (1 + buff2) * (1 + buff3) * (1 + buff4) ]
Multiplier = 1 / [ (1 - 0.2) * (1 - 0.15) * (1 - 0.025) * (1 - 0.025) ] = 1.547
Or a 54.7% increase in dps.

Misconception #5: Melee offence runes are better for dps than attack duration runes


So what about those runes that can go on our LIs and give us -2.5% attack duration each? What do those really do?



Well actually the existence of these runes (and similar old ones) is one of my main motivations for making this whole guide in the first place. Far too few champions use attack duration runes, and I want to show them what kind of dps they are missing out on. But first, let's compare these runes to a common alternative:



Consider a generic champ with around 9k (exact number not crucial) melee offence, who has yet to decide which runes to equip. With 9k offence and fervour stance, the champion's total melee offence is +45.9%. By equipping 2 runes of power, the rating jumps up to 10040, giving the champion a total of +48.0% melee offence with fervour.

Therefore, the champion's dps has gone up 148.0 / 145.9 = 101.4, or +1.4%

*** 2 runes of power = 1.4% dps increase ***

Note that this number does depend on your current melee offence, so it will be different for every champion. But in general, most champions won't be getting much more than this out of melee offence runes. Now let's take a look at the runes of wisdom.

Using the formula from misconception #4:

Multiplier = 1 / [ (1 - 0.025) * (1 - 0.025) ] = 1.052, or +5.2%

*** 2 runes of wisdom = 5.2% dps increase ***

The winner here is not only clear, but so much further ahead of its alternative that any champions using melee offense runes are severely and measurably hurting their dps. I hope I've made the relic choice for any champ interested in maximizing their dps output a no-brainer.

Thanks for reading!

Plus epic rep. I've always suspected that -attack duration is our most important offensive stat, but I've never bothered to actually test it.

Very, very nice.

Good thread. +rep

Thread hijack:Now would you take those attack duration runes or inc healing runes?

can i snag a link to where you obtain the program necessary to make those parses with the times attatched to them?
Thanks for proving what i've always suspected about the -attack duration. Never wanted to do any tests for it, but always knew it far surpassed the melee offense.

From my understanding though, would slotting 1 -2.5% rune and 1 + melee offense rune be more advantageous then say 2 -2.5% runes? FOR SOLO PURPOSES.

Originally Posted by Malephor

Good thread. +rep

Thread hijack:Now would you take those attack duration runes or inc healing runes?

If you want to cap inc healing and you need relics to do it, you are better off from a dps standpoint giving up the crit/offence on the setting for the store-setting than giving up the attack duration from the runes. Doesn't look so great on your character sheet... but you'll do more dps.

Originally Posted by IPvPforaLiving

can i snag a link to where you obtain the program necessary to make those parses with the times attatched to them?

Yep a friend of mine made a time-stamper. Pretty straight-forward to use. Here's the link:

http://www.bistromath.org/lotro/util/

From my understanding though, would slotting 1 -2.5% rune and 1 + melee offense rune be more advantageous then say 2 -2.5% runes? FOR SOLO PURPOSES.

How does your understanding lead you to this? Point 5 was supposed to finalize this issue. An attack duration rune is much better than a melee offence rune. You will do more dps by slotting two of them.

Great info. Probably would have never figured this out on my own

So here's a question I have for you Dwal, what's your opinion on the -2.5% attack duration relics for pvp purposes?

Assuming a 1 v 1 fight, do these relics matter that much? Given the amount of dead space/kiting/dancing where you can damage your opponent as opposed to say a PVE raid boss?

Originally Posted by Sulthern

So here's a question I have for you Dwal, what's your opinion on the -2.5% attack duration relics for pvp purposes?

Assuming a 1 v 1 fight, do these relics matter that much? Given the amount of dead space/kiting/dancing where you can damage your opponent as opposed to say a PVE raid boss?

I don't slot a -attack duration relic on my PvP rune precisely for this reason... although my weapons still both have one. I still think it's useful, just not as much.

Originally Posted by Sulthern

So here's a question I have for you Dwal, what's your opinion on the -2.5% attack duration relics for pvp purposes?

Assuming a 1 v 1 fight, do these relics matter that much? Given the amount of dead space/kiting/dancing where you can damage your opponent as opposed to say a PVE raid boss?

Might not be so useful if you're in a 1v1 where you keep running in and out over and over, but not many of my 1v1s are like this. BAs, Spiders, WLs, Defilers are all cases where would would want to stay up close and tight all the time. Not to mention all the non-1v1 pvp that goes on where you can be attacking continually... in addition to greater dps there are other factors like when you BS+Clobber for the kb and switch to the next target, you want to get that hamstring off asap. Just one example.

Originally Posted by Dwal

Yep a friend of mine made a time-stamper. Pretty straight-forward to use. Here's the link:

http://www.bistromath.org/lotro/util/



How does your understanding lead you to this? Point 5 was supposed to finalize this issue. An attack duration rune is much better than a melee offence rune. You will do more dps by slotting two of them.

thanks for the link. And the reason i asked this is because 1. i somehow i missed the big bold red number 2 for how many runes you were using (thought the 5% arose out of only using 1) and 2. because somehwere earlier in your data i recalled you mentioning that the 2nd -2.5% really adds only a minor percentage to the overall speed increase due to its multiplicative nature 3. you didnt give a parse for 1 of each. So i was curious.

epic thread. +rep and +5 thread rating.

Originally Posted by IPvPforaLiving

thanks for the link. And the reason i asked this is because 1. i somehow i missed the big bold red number 2 for how many runes you were using (thought the 5% arose out of only using 1) and 2. because somehwere earlier in your data i recalled you mentioning that the 2nd -2.5% really adds only a minor percentage to the overall speed increase due to its multiplicative nature 3. you didnt give a parse for 1 of each. So i was curious.

While I did say it was multiplicative I did not say that it's effect was negligible. Quite the opposite - I mentioned the lack of diminishing returns, meaning the 2nd rune will do as much for your dps as the 1st one did.

Also, the 2nd row of the table shows the effect of just 2 runes.

Fantastic posts, good sir. I've always tried to drill these misconceptions into people's heads, and have always felt that time is the number one factor for boosting your DPS (damage per second). Props to you sir, major rep! Great research and evidence. Very good show.

/salute

As always, impressive work. Thank you.

Very nice work.

I got on my champ, and tested BS vs. BS+C...

Sadly with BS the brutal CD got in the way every single time

Originally Posted by Meh...

Very nice work.

I got on my champ, and tested BS vs. BS+C...

Sadly with BS the brutal CD got in the way every single time

You mean your rotation is just something like WA-SS-BS-WA-SS-BS? Not sure what your saying here, but that rotation doesn't work regardless of attack speed runes.

Very informative post, thanks for the info. I'll certainly look into new rune options if possible.

Originally Posted by Dwal

You mean your rotation is just something like WA-SS-BS-WA-SS-BS? Not sure what your saying here, but that rotation doesn't work regardless of attack speed runes.

Actually, it can. With combinations of bloodlust, swift to anger, stalwart blade, the bg set bonus, red haze, etc, I quite often get enough pips to use brutal before the cd for it is up from its last use, and I use a 2 hander. Of course, your findings and research are still excellent. Very good work, and thank you.

Thorough, excellent write-up. +rep

Originally Posted by jlr

Actually, it can. With combinations of bloodlust, swift to anger, stalwart blade, the bg set bonus, red haze, etc, I quite often get enough pips to use brutal before the cd for it is up from its last use, and I use a 2 hander. Of course, your findings and research are still excellent. Very good work, and thank you.

The rotation I questioned was WA-SS-BS-WA-SS-BS.

I know very well that you can have enough pips for this. That's the problem - you have too many. Even without attack speed relics, blood-lust, etc. you'd be sitting around waiting on the brutal cooldown every rotation... it just doesn't work.

I don't want to get bogged down in rotations in this thread, maybe I'll make another thread for that eventually. But I'll emphasize that I still think a real, sustainable, good dps rotation is not limited by cooldowns, thus making attack duration runes exceptionally valuable. Saying you are gated by cooldowns when you get to pop red haze or battle or something is not what I consider to fall under sustainable. Besides, don't forget you should be reapplying rend every 20s and flurry every 30s. Those require pips too.

Great post! There is a third possibility for point 3, Attack Duration could be both additive and multiplicative, the self buffs could be additive to each other but multiplicative with outside buffs. The test I made in this Post:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t=#post5264440
seems to suggest that Flurry and the -Attack Duration Relics are additive (and also agrees with your own data). I believe there are other types of buffs in the game that work like that.

Originally Posted by MikeA

Great post! There is a third possibility for point 3, Attack Duration could be both additive and multiplicative, the self buffs could be additive to each other but multiplicative with outside buffs. The test I made in this Post:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t=#post5264440
seems to suggest that Flurry and the -Attack Duration Relics are additive (and also agrees with your own data). I believe there are other types of buffs in the game that work like that.

Good suggestion. However first off, I think we are getting different values for the length of the rotation with just the two attack speed runes. Could you run a couple more tests to see if you get the same value?

Originally Posted by Dwal

Good suggestion. However first off, I think we are getting different values for the length of the rotation with just the two attack speed runes. Could you run a couple more tests to see if you get the same value?

When I get the chance I can, but I don't really see a disagreement, you have 7.48 sec with 2 Attack Duration Runes while I have 7.508 sec, that 28 ms difference is trivial. Any differences in connection latency could easily swamp that.

Originally Posted by Dwal

The rotation I questioned was WA-SS-BS-WA-SS-BS.

I know very well that you can have enough pips for this. That's the problem - you have too many. Even without attack speed relics, blood-lust, etc. you'd be sitting around waiting on the brutal cooldown every rotation... it just doesn't work.

I don't want to get bogged down in rotations in this thread, maybe I'll make another thread for that eventually. But I'll emphasize that I still think a real, sustainable, good dps rotation is not limited by cooldowns, thus making attack duration runes exceptionally valuable. Saying you are gated by cooldowns when you get to pop red haze or battle or something is not what I consider to fall under sustainable. Besides, don't forget you should be reapplying rend every 20s and flurry every 30s. Those require pips too.

Ah, I see what you meant now, and you're right. Can always throw a relentless as well from time to time.

+rep best post i've seen in a long while. awesome and amazing information. my champ has gotten some odd looks for having a slightly lower than normal melee offense rating...but i hit like a truck. this helps explain quite a bit.

PS: my mini applauds as well! PLEASE minis: remember to chain ballad of war and thank your champs!!

Great posts. But i would disagree on the part with -AD affecting DW and 2H in the same way.

For DW base speed attack is ~2.0s, when for 2H it is on 2.4s(correct me if im wrong, that does not matter that much for rest of the post), and DW is not dealing damages 2time faster then 2H. What you did was basically saying that both are doing 100damage in 1s. ( 100/1 or 50/0.5 :sigh What you missed in that post is that attack duration is what you were saying all time in other posts. Attack duration is not affecting damage is affecting time when you are dealing that damage. So lets get back to base weapons speed. Flurry is taking of 0.4s from DW and its taking off 0.48s from 2H, almost 0.1s more for 2H.

So Flurry is not affecting DW in the same way as it is 2H. Owner of 2H weapon will get more profits from using it. The point is that DW damage =/= 2H damage. (im not talking about DPS, DPS in that case should be the same in the end when mob will die)

Excellent post. It is nice to have it quantified :-) Damage might be King, but speed still kills...

Deep Rune of the Mountains 7 +150 Maximum Morale, +100 Maximum Power, -2.5% Attack Duration ... well worth 200 TP alone, if I may say... as well as this one... Profound Rune of Action 6 -2.5% Attack Duration, +480 Melee Defence Rating, +125 Maximum Morale

Good that I kept em!

Thank you for proving a long lingering hunch

Best Champ thread in a long time. +Rep & +Rating for u

Now, don't tell any of those pesky Huntards or RK's

Grz,

Val

Excellent post Dwal. Precise, apt and well put!.
I am one of the unfortunate guys who did not keep any old attack duration runes and hence running with new one with Evade and will (./sigh).

Originally Posted by Barrynor

Deep Rune of the Mountains 7 +150 Maximum Morale, +100 Maximum Power, -2.5% Attack Duration ... well worth 200 TP alone, if I may say... as well as this one... Profound Rune of Action 6 -2.5% Attack Duration, +480 Melee Defence Rating, +125 Maximum Morale
Good that I kept em!

Are those available in STORE? If yes please do let me know. I will buy it for any TP

-Pras

Consider a generic champ with around 9k (exact number not crucial) melee offence, who has yet to decide which runes to equip. With 9k offence and fervour stance, the champion's total melee offence is +45.9%. By equipping 2 runes of power, the rating jumps up to 10040, giving the champion a total of +48.0% melee offence with fervour.

Therefore, the champion's dps has gone up 148.0 / 145.9 = 101.4, or +1.4%

Soo.. this also means Ballad of War is not as good as it seems?

Let's say a champ does +45% damage in fervour and with 20% ballad of war this will become +65% damage.
The increase in DPS will be: 165/145 = 1.1379 or an increase of 13,8% instead of the 20% most people believe it does.
Still a very good buff ofcourse.

thanks a lot for this post really helpful +rep

Originally Posted by vpram86

Are those available in STORE? If yes please do let me know. I will buy it for any TP

None of them are available anymore. I believe the 200 TP remark was about relics unslotting scrolls.

Originally Posted by CFury

None of them are available anymore. I believe the 200 TP remark was about relics unslotting scrolls.

Ah got it. Thanks

Awesome stuff, Dwal. The -AD research is particularly interesting.

Excellent thread, Dwalor! I will +rep you every time I am able to :-)