Thread: ROI metalsmithing changes

looking at metalsmithing as it is atm there is no real benefit to having the craft, the tools recipes haven't upgraded since lvl 55 there are no consumables to trade and the lvl 60 armour is way to expensive & time consuming and the lvl 65 armour has terrible stats and i hate to think that would continue as there is massive room for improvement.

some changes i wouild like to see are the ability to craft end game armour sets as it seems to me no different to crafting LI's and some consumables to buff common/non common mitigation and negate/reflect damage.

what changes to metalsmithing would you like to see in ROI ?

I totally agree that most of the metalsmith (as well as tailor) recipes are not good enough at the moment for L60/65. I would like to see new recipes in ROI with Bind On Account outcomes that can only be crafted by high-level crafters, have much better stats than the current recipes, but which you can only give to yourself or high level alts.

yeah its no better for tailors either. they could make the guild recipes bind on account outcomes and have those as a much superior sets as atm there is no unique guild lvl 60/65 and the other guild recipes are out levelled so quickly there not worth the investment. the 60/65 recipes we have atm are just faction rep sets and there not very good. lvl 50 guild armour was great for soa end game and that seems to be what's missing in comparison.

Originally Posted by khanden

some changes i wouild like to see are the ability to craft end game armour sets as it seems to me no different to crafting LI's.

By end game, do you mean class specific armour sets? Those would make metalsmithing and tailoring so much better...

Originally Posted by bowman54

By end game, do you mean class specific armour sets? Those would make metalsmithing and tailoring so much better...

well i expect that the crafted armour should have equal stats to the instance class sets and set bonus stats like the class sets have. though the bonuses could be non skill specific but major +stat bonuses for incoming/outgoing healing, devastate magnitude, damage mitigation, reflect damage, max morale & power and clicky skills etc like has been used already on some armour and jewellery. they don't have to have the same bonuses to the instance class sets but have an alternate benefit which adds more variety and choice and makes crafted armour actually beneficial.

with the stat changes announced for ROI it may be that the armour has to be class specific or there could be big itemization problems with the current set up, but the multi output recipe system allows for a lot of flexibility for multiple class choices also.

I Believe that the Sword of Aragorn " Andúril " was CRAFTED by the Elven of Rivendell, and the Sword of Gandalf, "Glamdring" was also CRAFTED, as Was ALL of their Armor, so why Shouldn't WE of Craftsmanship be allowed the Same Privileges?? ALL the Characters in LOTR-Trilogy didn't Just Find all of Their Superior Items Laying on the ground did they??
ALL Weapons & Gear was Custom Crafted by Master Craftsmen, which is supposed to be What We are SUPPOSED to Be, right?? Even "Legendary" Items were Custom-Crafted by a Supreme Master of Crafting...
Just seems to me, that is What We are ALL supposed to Be Capable of!! In other Words, Crafted Items SHOULD BE Superior to ANYTHING found laying around, all the Way to Level 75...

Whilst I agree that the end game crafted gear is lacklustre at best I disagree with adding in items that are BOA. I crafted because I wanted to make my own gear but also gear for other people. There's enough nonsense in this game that encourages you to no have any interaction with other players as it is without making it so that every single account has to level all the crafting professions themselves. Weaponsmiths can already make the best weapons in game (3rd age 65's) and Scholars, Jewellers, and even woodworkers (in that they can make li weapons) already have decent end game gear that they can craft. I see no reason why Metalsmiths/Tailors recipes shouldn't be brought up to the same standard without having to make them BOA.

New armor recipes are needed, no doubt about it but don't forget consumables. Metalsmiths can't craft anything useful past lvl 60. I made my main character a Metalsmith so I could craft armor for myself. Until lvl 54-56 everything was fine. I had crit sets waiting for me at each tier. I saved every large supreme crest I could to craft my Galadhrim armor (so far I have 4 pieces). Then I checked rewards for later Epic quests (Vol2 Bk9 and Vol 3) and it looks like almost all pieces (except boots) are slightly better. This makes no sense. If I had selected Scholar of Cook and left Metalsmithing on an alt, I would have much better return for my time invested.

We want consumables. Sharpening stones that increase damage temporarily, armour plating (+X to armor, maybe bonuses to certain mitigations), spurs to make our mount go 5% faster for 15 minutes, that sorts of things...

If they give us armour with basic finesse stats just below the raid sets and i be happy

Originally Posted by Vikingen

If they give us armour with basic finesse stats just below the raid sets and i be happy

If by this you mean way bellow raid you will be happy..... (peak stat on raid is 122 peak on crafted is 84) If you are looking for better than the helegrod set in game... you may be happy. If you are looking for better than the OD set, you may be sad. Yes the L75 guild top rack stuff is close to the OD stuff. Since the NDA has been lifted I can say crafting for tailors and metal smiths looks a lot like it did when MOM came out. Only there are no new tool recipes, at least not that have shown up in beta so far, and its probably feature complete at this point, (this is an opinion not based on anything said in the beta) with only 30 days til launch. I suspect there will only be strong interest in the crafted helms and shoulders, to use on a temporary basis, the chest boots gloves and pants all can be solo skirmished with SFM's. Though it will take a while to do that solo, so who knows. Also in fairness there are purported to be raid recipes that drop that I have not yet seen. On the flip side since not every piece of the raid set has finesse if that proves to be a critical mechanic, through the multi-output system we have chests helms and gauntlets that have this stat, where some of the raid pieces do not. I am thinking that will apply to hunters and champs, but not really sure.

To wet your appetite the crafted raid chest vs the heavy 75 raid chests

Crafted:
1372 armor
84 Vit
288 Morale
156 Crit
936 Finesse

Raid Guard
1462 armor
61 might
122 vit
996 finesse

Raid champ
1462 armor
122 might
61 agi
996 finesse

Raid captain
1462 armor
122 might
61 Agi
166 crit

thanks rwsteve1044 & cryhavoc99 for posting the roi armour stats here and in the other thread, ive been looking forward to seeing them

do you have any info on the dunland crafted set, and what materials are used to craft the lvl 75 armour ?
do the recipes require barter tokens for consumed on use recipies & crit components like the poorly thought out lorien recipes ?

in the other thread someone said the crafted sets have a 4 stat focus, but the screens of the theodred set shows 3 stats and 1 of those stats (agility) was very low, is that our lvl 75 guild set ? i hope not tbh

currently the class sets have 122 & 61 to 2 primary stats for a total of 732 & 366 in comparison to the crafted theodred set which has a total of 376 might 280 vitality 84 agility if i read the images correctly (thx for those) and no unique stat type on any of the pieces or bonuses to having a set.

280 vit is not much more than the current lvl 65 sets have (around 200-230), not enough of a gain for 10 lvl's and 84 agility is pathetic, that's worse than the guardian 65 hele set which has an awfully low agility at 92. that is poor gear progression for 10 lvl's and doesn't do anything to help metalsmithing at all.

imo this set doesnt even come close to the raid set and if this is the best crafted set outside of the raid dropped recipes then metalsmithing is still undesirable as 4 pieces of a by far superior set can be gained through solo play, though with time.

if fact the gap is so big i would bet currently you could wear 4 quest reward items & 2 raid items and have a superior build than the entire guild set. so is the guild set currently worth the time and cost ?

is there a better crafted set than this outside of the raid ?

and the stats on the raid crafted piece/pieces, tbh i don't understand why anyone would raid for a recipe to craft an item at additional cost that is inferior to the items rewarded in the raid, nor should it be the only crafted items remotely comparable to the raid items. imo for the extra effort they should be clearly superior to the raid items.

having now also seen the stats on the lvl 75 pvp sets the guild set looks even worse. IE. the guardian pvp set has 371 vitality 276 might 153 agility and an abundance of offence, critical,resist,mitigation, finesse ratings way beyond the guild set etc etc and also pieces with proc shadow defence and nice set bonuses. i don't yet see any armour worth crafting at end game in roi.

is there yet any news on new consumable item recipes, tools, buff items etc ?

i hope as this is still in beta that this changes dramatically, but with so little time left until release i wont be holding my breath.

Originally Posted by khanden

thanks rwsteve1044 & cryhavoc99 for posting the roi armour stats here and in the other thread, ive been looking forward to seeing them

do you have any info on the dunland crafted set, and what materials are used to craft the lvl 75 armour ?
do the recipes require barter tokens for consumed on use recipies & crit components like the poorly thought out lorien recipes ?

in the other thread someone said the crafted sets have a 4 stat focus, but the screens of the theodred set shows 3 stats and 1 of those stats (agility) was very low, is that our lvl 75 guild set ? i hope not tbh

currently the class sets have 122 & 61 to 2 primary stats for a total of 732 & 366 in comparison to the crafted theodred set which has a total of 376 might 280 vitality 84 agility if i read the images correctly (thx for those) and no unique stat type on any of the pieces or bonuses to having a set.

280 vit is not much more than the current lvl 65 sets have (around 200-230), not enough of a gain for 10 lvl's and 84 agility is pathetic, that's worse than the guardian 65 hele set which has an awfully low agility at 92. that is poor gear progression for 10 lvl's and doesn't do anything to help metalsmithing at all.

imo this set doesnt even come close to the raid set and if this is the best crafted set outside of the raid dropped recipes then metalsmithing is still undesirable as 4 pieces of a by far superior set can be gained through solo play, though with time.

if fact the gap is so big i would bet currently you could wear 4 quest reward items & 2 raid items and have a superior build than the entire guild set. so is the guild set currently worth the time and cost ?

is there a better crafted set than this outside of the raid ?

and the stats on the raid crafted piece/pieces, tbh i don't understand why anyone would raid for a recipe to craft an item at additional cost that is inferior to the items rewarded in the raid, nor should it be the only crafted items remotely comparable to the raid items. imo for the extra effort they should be clearly superior to the raid items.

is there yet any news on new consumable item recipes, tools, buff items etc ?

i hope as this is still in beta that this changes dramatically, but with so little time left until release i wont be holding my breath.

First this crafted gear is outside the raid, I have not yet seen a raid recipe drop, but supposedly they are out there, I do not believe the dragon was slayed during testing so lewts are unknown. Those recipes are guild or rep with the theodens riders(however that is spelt). There are two outputs for each recipe in the l75 gear. The crafted set has no set bonuses, and has four stats instead of three. The raid set only has three per piece but has substantially higher values. There are pieces however that crafters can make with finesse to go in slots that the raid set has no finesse for, so if finesse is as valuable as we think in the beta it is, then you will see mix and match. The raid gear is about 6.5% better than crafted. No new instances were added, and no quest gear is superior generally than the crafted. The old retooled instances have some drops which are better in l75 hard mode chests, as it is now.

Keep in mind with stats, they have been totally revamped. A champ guard warden or captain has little use for agility, hunters and burglers have little use for might. Damage out and Crit are off the same stat now. A guard picks up parry and evade from agility, but might is block, crit (ranged and melee) and outgoing damage (again ranged and melee). A guard will likely stack might and vit, at the expense of anything else under the new stat system. In other words the changes to stats and virtues make this a whole new game. The old stat mixes are no longer optimal.

None of the lothorien mess up on recipes is there, the guild recipes are in the guild hall, and the reputation recipes all use either the crafted journal or crafted crit item to increase crit chance.

Lots of cool new consumables for scholars (lore of the crafting class that increases all the classes crit chances such as prospecting) and cooks. No new tools have been seen. Jewelers/ metalsmiths/ weaponsmiths use skarn nodes, woodworkers use birch.

Crit items are redone for T7, they are crafted and can be used by foresters and prospectors, from a high grade drop. There is one form of base resource that can be refined three times for low grade medium grade and high grade the high grade recipe comes from dunland rep. The crit item resource can also be used to make high grade, with rep from the riders. The tier 2 and 3 materials will take rich coal and wax. Guilds have the l75 1st/2nd/3rd age weapons ready to hand, with new rare drop ingredients for 1st/2nd.

This means you will need (to know) a high level prospector/forester/farmer to make high level equipment.

Originally Posted by rwsteve1044

First this crafted gear is outside the raid, I have not yet seen a raid recipe drop, but supposedly they are out there, I do not believe the dragon was slayed during testing so lewts are unknown. Those recipes are guild or rep with the theodens riders(however that is spelt). There are two outputs for each recipe in the l75 gear. The crafted set has no set bonuses, and has four stats instead of three. The raid set only has three per piece but has substantially higher values. There are pieces however that crafters can make with finesse to go in slots that the raid set has no finesse for, so if finesse is as valuable as we think in the beta it is, then you will see mix and match. The raid gear is about 6.5% better than crafted. No new instances were added, and no quest gear is superior generally than the crafted. The old retooled instances have some drops which are better in l75 hard mode chests, as it is now.

Keep in mind with stats, they have been totally revamped. A champ guard warden or captain has little use for agility, hunters and burglers have little use for might. Damage out and Crit are off the same stat now. A guard picks up parry and evade from agility, but might is block, crit (ranged and melee) and outgoing damage (again ranged and melee). A guard will likely stack might and vit, at the expense of anything else under the new stat system. In other words the changes to stats and virtues make this a whole new game. The old stat mixes are no longer optimal.

None of the lothorien mess up on recipes is there, the guild recipes are in the guild hall, and the reputation recipes all use either the crafted journal or crafted crit item to increase crit chance.

Lots of cool new consumables for scholars (lore of the crafting class that increases all the classes crit chances such as prospecting) and cooks. No new tools have been seen. Jewelers/ metalsmiths/ weaponsmiths use skarn nodes, woodworkers use birch.

Crit items are redone for T7, they are crafted and can be used by foresters and prospectors, from a high grade drop. There is one form of base resource that can be refined three times for low grade medium grade and high grade the high grade recipe comes from dunland rep. The crit item resource can also be used to make high grade, with rep from the riders. The tier 2 and 3 materials will take rich coal and wax. Guilds have the l75 1st/2nd/3rd age weapons ready to hand, with new rare drop ingredients for 1st/2nd.

This means you will need (to know) a high level prospector/forester/farmer to make high level equipment.

thanks for the reply, im very glad to hear that its not implemented like the lorien gear was.

in regards to the stats on the armour and the stat system changes, in the screen shot of the crafted theodreds heavy armour the individual pieces may have had one more base stat type but the values are too low for the guild set to be comparable to the other end game sets. and all other important ratings are minimal at best on this set.

also there is a clear reduction in agility on all heavy armour i have seen but this guild set has far less than any other and as we still need agility for parry & evade that hasn't changed so it seems out of balance in comparison (raid set has high rating no agility) block alone is not enough we will have more than a little use for agility, no change there.

im left feeling metalsmithing will be a useless craft again, if you compare the theodred armour set to all other end game sets you'll see there is no comparison between them really. and its a great shame because we should see it and think its awesome and want to craft and use it, and have others want to trade for it, that is the point of the craft. but it doesn't make me feel like that at all.

Originally Posted by khanden

thanks for the reply, im very glad to hear that its not implemented like the lorien gear was.

in regards to the stats on the armour and the stat system changes, in the screen shot of the crafted theodreds heavy armour the individual pieces may have had one more base stat type but the values are too low for the guild set to be comparable to the other end game sets. and all other important ratings are minimal at best on this set.

also there is a clear reduction in agility on all heavy armour i have seen but this guild set has far less than any other and as we still need agility for parry & evade that hasn't changed so it seems out of balance in comparison (raid set has high rating no agility) block alone is not enough we will have more than a little use for agility, no change there.

im left feeling metalsmithing will be a useless craft again, if you compare the theodred armour set to all other end game sets you'll see there is no comparison between them really. and its a great shame because we should see it and think its awesome and want to craft and use it, and have others want to trade for it, that is the point of the craft. but it doesn't make me feel like that at all.

In my testing the crafted gear is pretty close, and easy to obtain. I think there will be many who if nothing else aquire the crafted gear, esp. head and shoulders, to use until they kill the dragon enough times. You will also have three sets of good shields to craft, mini's, (some) captains, wardens, and guards will get in line for those. There will be some trade in legendary items as well.

The testing we have done, with mostly jewelry, in beta agility really doesnt effect much. Parry is also off might for guards. Evade is the only guard/warden stat really agility dependant. Parry is half from might half from agility so wardens and guards get as much effect off might as agility. Champs of course lean heavy on furvor still which kills BPE, so they have zero from agility. They have really made it light armor casters - will, medium armor dps agility, tanks and heavy might. Everyone gets icmr and icpr from fate. Captains for instance now get the outgoing healing stat and tactical crit stat from might. They really have tweaked it to be the one stat.

for heavy armor you will see this focus:

captains might/fate
guards might/vit
champs might/vit

medium:

burgs agi/vit/fate
hunts agi/vit/fate
wardens might/vit

light:

rk will/fate
mini will/fate
lm will/fate

Also if you are a tailor the medium tactical sets in game now are now useless. They removed the trait for minis to equip meium gear.

One more think to look at is the new diminishing returns.

The raid gear looses value from the diminishing returns system, they need to be hyper inflated to make any real game difference.

The level of quality in heavy armour that I have seen follows this same pattern.

World Drops>Quest>Crafted>Raid.

The raid gear is obtainable with a significant number of Superior Fourth Marks, which are currently available from the same sources as Superior Third Marks. The more experienced raiders are going to want to run those on Tier 2 or Tier 3. If they run it on Tier 1, Quest Gear and World Drops would be sufficient for that. But Tier 2 or Tier 3 runs would be easier with the Crafted Gear until they get their Raid Gear and they will still want their other two pieces of armour until they get the barter coins for the raid locked Raid Gear.

Shields are not available for raid gear, so those will be big sellers. Even small shields for Champions. If a Champion is going to tank in Glory, especially for tougher instances, they would be more survivable with a small shield.

Another big seller with be RK chisels and rifflers. I have crafted those several times and posted them in AH and they sell out within a couple of hours of posting....and this is with a small beta testing population.

The level 75 crafted third age LI's will be the best LI available unless you get the Worn Symbol of Celebrimbor or Worn Symbol of the Elder King. Those are needed for the level 75 second age and first age items, respectively. I plan to craft as many of the level 75 third ages that I can and post them for sale in the AH, that will be your biggest money maker.

The dragon armour that was mentioned is from Draigoch and is a chestpiece. I was able to obtain the recipe from Eyes and Guard recipe vendor before they shut it down and it is a one shot recipe and I don't recall too many details about it. Beta is currently shut down (for updating, I hope), but I do recall it had the same armour rating as the guild craft chest piece with slight different stats, but I recall that I didn't think it was better than the guild crafted, given a choice between the two, I would wear the guild crafted. When I get back in, I will get the figures. Cosmetically, it looks the same as the guild crafted. I was a little disappointed about that, I would like it to have a unique look, to make it stand out as something worthy to have gotten.

Originally Posted by Big_Red_1

I Believe that the Sword of Aragorn " Andúril " was CRAFTED by the Elven of Rivendell, and the Sword of Gandalf, "Glamdring" was also CRAFTED, as Was ALL of their Armor, so why Shouldn't WE of Craftsmanship be allowed the Same Privileges?? ALL the Characters in LOTR-Trilogy didn't Just Find all of Their Superior Items Laying on the ground did they??
ALL Weapons & Gear was Custom Crafted by Master Craftsmen, which is supposed to be What We are SUPPOSED to Be, right?? Even "Legendary" Items were Custom-Crafted by a Supreme Master of Crafting...
Just seems to me, that is What We are ALL supposed to Be Capable of!! In other Words, Crafted Items SHOULD BE Superior to ANYTHING found laying around, all the Way to Level 75...

Aragorn's sword was originally crafted by a Dwarf named Telchar in the First Age. It was repaired/reforged by the elves of Rivendell. Gandalf's sword (and Bilbo/Frodo's sword "Sting") was crafted by the elves of Gondolin in the First Age. The mithril armor worn by Bilbo in The Hobbit and by Frodo in LOTR was crafed by dwarves in the Second Age (I think).

There is a theme in JRRT's books of Middle Earth that the skills/knowledge of the people of Middle Earth are in a slow decline, that the weapons and armor made in the First Age were the greatest, then a step down to items made in the Second Age, and another step down to items made in the Third Age when the LOTR story is set (in the final years of the Third Age). This theme is not clear in LOTR by itself, but it is made clearer in other books like The Silmarillion. Even the greatest living smiths during the time of LOTR could not make new items equal to those made in earlier ages. They could repair items from the earlier ages, but not make something completely new that was on the same level as the older items. Part of this is that the knowledge/secrets involved in making those items had become lost over time. Another part of it is that the people of the Third Age had diminished and were not the equal of their ancestors. Even Saruman who was a maia could not make rings of power in the Third Age that were equal to the rings made by the elf Celebrimbor in the Second Age (Celebrimbor made the three rings of the elves, the seven rings of the dwarves and the 9 rings of the men, but it was Sauron who stole the seven and nine rings from the elves and gave them to the dwarves/men and also Sauron who made the one ring in secret from the elves)

Originally Posted by GarethB

Aragorn's sword was originally crafted by a Dwarf named Telchar in the First Age. It was repaired/reforged by the elves of Rivendell. Gandalf's sword (and Bilbo/Frodo's sword "Sting") was crafted by the elves of Gondolin in the First Age. The mithril armor worn by Bilbo in The Hobbit and by Frodo in LOTR was crafed by dwarves in the Second Age (I think).

There is a theme in JRRT's books of Middle Earth that the skills/knowledge of the people of Middle Earth are in a slow decline, that the weapons and armor made in the First Age were the greatest, then a step down to items made in the Second Age, and another step down to items made in the Third Age when the LOTR story is set (in the final years of the Third Age). This theme is not clear in LOTR by itself, but it is made clearer in other books like The Silmarillion. Even the greatest living smiths during the time of LOTR could not make new items equal to those made in earlier ages. They could repair items from the earlier ages, but not make something completely new that was on the same level as the older items. Part of this is that the knowledge/secrets involved in making those items had become lost over time. Another part of it is that the people of the Third Age had diminished and were not the equal of their ancestors. Even Saruman who was a maia could not make rings of power in the Third Age that were equal to the rings made by the elf Celebrimbor in the Second Age (Celebrimbor made the three rings of the elves, the seven rings of the dwarves and the 9 rings of the men, but it was Sauron who stole the seven and nine rings from the elves and gave them to the dwarves/men and also Sauron who made the one ring in secret from the elves)

Very well then.... give me armor shards to reforge just like weaponsmiths and woodworkers get for their trades. Then we are in keeping with the lore. Have a nice day.

Originally Posted by GarethB

Aragorn's sword was originally crafted by a Dwarf named Telchar in the First Age. It was repaired/reforged by the elves of Rivendell. Gandalf's sword (and Bilbo/Frodo's sword "Sting") was crafted by the elves of Gondolin in the First Age. The mithril armor worn by Bilbo in The Hobbit and by Frodo in LOTR was crafed by dwarves in the Second Age (I think).

There is a theme in JRRT's books of Middle Earth that the skills/knowledge of the people of Middle Earth are in a slow decline, that the weapons and armor made in the First Age were the greatest, then a step down to items made in the Second Age, and another step down to items made in the Third Age when the LOTR story is set (in the final years of the Third Age). This theme is not clear in LOTR by itself, but it is made clearer in other books like The Silmarillion. Even the greatest living smiths during the time of LOTR could not make new items equal to those made in earlier ages. They could repair items from the earlier ages, but not make something completely new that was on the same level as the older items. Part of this is that the knowledge/secrets involved in making those items had become lost over time. Another part of it is that the people of the Third Age had diminished and were not the equal of their ancestors. Even Saruman who was a maia could not make rings of power in the Third Age that were equal to the rings made by the elf Celebrimbor in the Second Age (Celebrimbor made the three rings of the elves, the seven rings of the dwarves and the 9 rings of the men, but it was Sauron who stole the seven and nine rings from the elves and gave them to the dwarves/men and also Sauron who made the one ring in secret from the elves)

if your suggesting we should only make inferior equipment because its 3rd age gear i have to disagree entirely. looking at other crafts, IE weapon smiths can craft non legendary weapons for dual wielders that are completely usable at end game and do not become 2nd rate items. and more importantly can craft 1st 2nd & 3rd age li weapons, 1st agers must be crafted (guild recipe) and are the best weapons available in game.

crafted armour also needs to be treated in this same manner. word drop recipes can be superior to quest reward equipment, but faction reputation recipes should be slightly below raid sets and guild armour should be equal to raid gear. then unique recipes obtained in the raid should be superior to everything.

crafted armour needs to be treated in this way to be comparable to the benefits of other crafts and fit the same system used for crafting end game gear that they use.

Originally Posted by Kryhavoc99

The level of quality in heavy armour that I have seen follows this same pattern.

World Drops>Quest>Crafted>Raid.

The raid gear is obtainable with a significant number of Superior Fourth Marks, which are currently available from the same sources as Superior Third Marks. The more experienced raiders are going to want to run those on Tier 2 or Tier 3. If they run it on Tier 1, Quest Gear and World Drops would be sufficient for that. But Tier 2 or Tier 3 runs would be easier with the Crafted Gear until they get their Raid Gear and they will still want their other two pieces of armour until they get the barter coins for the raid locked Raid Gear.

Shields are not available for raid gear, so those will be big sellers. Even small shields for Champions. If a Champion is going to tank in Glory, especially for tougher instances, they would be more survivable with a small shield.

Another big seller with be RK chisels and rifflers. I have crafted those several times and posted them in AH and they sell out within a couple of hours of posting....and this is with a small beta testing population.

The level 75 crafted third age LI's will be the best LI available unless you get the Worn Symbol of Celebrimbor or Worn Symbol of the Elder King. Those are needed for the level 75 second age and first age items, respectively. I plan to craft as many of the level 75 third ages that I can and post them for sale in the AH, that will be your biggest money maker.

The dragon armour that was mentioned is from Draigoch and is a chestpiece. I was able to obtain the recipe from Eyes and Guard recipe vendor before they shut it down and it is a one shot recipe and I don't recall too many details about it. Beta is currently shut down (for updating, I hope), but I do recall it had the same armour rating as the guild craft chest piece with slight different stats, but I recall that I didn't think it was better than the guild crafted, given a choice between the two, I would wear the guild crafted. When I get back in, I will get the figures. Cosmetically, it looks the same as the guild crafted. I was a little disappointed about that, I would like it to have a unique look, to make it stand out as something worthy to have gotten.

does this mean that there are no 3rd age li world drops and all li's must be crafted or bartered ?

also have you got any pics of what the guild crafted armour looks like ? i guess its gonna be very rohirric looking as its named after theodred

There are world drops of all level of LI's from 66 - 75. But the crafted level 75 is still superior to the world drops...as it should be.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t-2nd-age-LI-s this link includes a better of of the different crafted item stats.

http://docholidaymmo.com/2011/08/26/...rd-armor-sets/ this link has a view of the raid armour.

Originally Posted by Kryhavoc99

There are world drops of all level of LI's from 66 - 75. But the crafted level 75 is still superior to the world drops...as it should be.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t-2nd-age-LI-s this link includes a better of of the different crafted item stats.

http://docholidaymmo.com/2011/08/26/...rd-armor-sets/ this link has a view of the raid armour.

thanks for the links kryhavoc99

the other recipe output types do make for some more interesting stat choices, a couple of those were clearly for cappy's and that's probably better for crafter's imo

the raid sets looks cool, very dragon like. all they needs is a beard on the helms lol

ive seen what one of the crafted sets look like in the visual tour of dunland thread though i dont know which set it was, dunland set i think. but what does the crafted guild set look like ?

At this point, I am not posting any more screenshots I have taken for various reasons.

However, I do have this to say about Metalsmith crafting. We have a small population on the beta server (severely much smaller than what would be available on any live server).

Yesterday, I crafted every item available for the Metalsmith (except the guild items, the guild symbols are on cooldown) and posted them on the auction house.

Everything sold within 20 minutes, and I had people sending requests via glff for more stuff cause they got bought out while browsing the choices.

I can tell you that the armour does look very nice and I suspect that even if they don't want it for the stats, someone may want it for the cosmetic looks. I do plan to craft everything at first and we will see what happens on live.

Originally Posted by Kryhavoc99

At this point, I am not posting any more screenshots I have taken for various reasons.

However, I do have this to say about Metalsmith crafting. We have a small population on the beta server (severely much smaller than what would be available on any live server).

Yesterday, I crafted every item available for the Metalsmith (except the guild items, the guild symbols are on cooldown) and posted them on the auction house.

Everything sold within 20 minutes, and I had people sending requests via glff for more stuff cause they got bought out while browsing the choices.

I can tell you that the armour does look very nice and I suspect that even if they don't want it for the stats, someone may want it for the cosmetic looks. I do plan to craft everything at first and we will see what happens on live.

yay im a bit more exited about it now it sounds like its worth crafting if it sells, ill just have to be patient until launch before i see it

Originally Posted by khanden

thanks for the reply, im very glad to hear that its not implemented like the lorien gear was.

in regards to the stats on the armour and the stat system changes, in the screen shot of the crafted theodreds heavy armour the individual pieces may have had one more base stat type but the values are too low for the guild set to be comparable to the other end game sets. and all other important ratings are minimal at best on this set.

also there is a clear reduction in agility on all heavy armour i have seen but this guild set has far less than any other and as we still need agility for parry & evade that hasn't changed so it seems out of balance in comparison (raid set has high rating no agility) block alone is not enough we will have more than a little use for agility, no change there.

im left feeling metalsmithing will be a useless craft again, if you compare the theodred armour set to all other end game sets you'll see there is no comparison between them really. and its a great shame because we should see it and think its awesome and want to craft and use it, and have others want to trade for it, that is the point of the craft. but it doesn't make me feel like that at all.

My two cents is that metalsmithing/tailoring aren't useless, rather it's an important middle-step to top-line gear. As I leveled up all my heavy-armor characters, I always ended up with Level 60 guild armor on them. These pieces were, naturally, replaced by better pieces; whether through Moria class-items or quest rewards...

These, in turn, were supplemented/replaced by Level 65 pieces.

And, in turn, all was replaced by full-on Annuminas raid gear.

Originally Posted by ZhorgeLOTR

My two cents is that metalsmithing/tailoring aren't useless, rather it's an important middle-step to top-line gear. As I leveled up all my heavy-armor characters, I always ended up with Level 60 guild armor on them. These pieces were, naturally, replaced by better pieces; whether through Moria class-items or quest rewards...

These, in turn, were supplemented/replaced by Level 65 pieces.

And, in turn, all was replaced by full-on Annuminas raid gear.

although you say its not currently useless the point about the lvl 65 gear being of quite poor standard is highlighted in your example as you skipped the lvl 65 crafted gear because it would have been a downgrade from your lvl 60 items, and that really isn't good enough itemization, crafted armour deserves to be more than just a middle-step there are epic line reward pieces for that.

the lvl 60 gear was ok but could have been better, the recipes have recently been changed and there now actually not as good any more. but the main problem with these is the amount of cost and time invested for sub par gear. its easier, cheaper and quicker to just get the moria class stuff and ignore the lvl 60 crafted items completely and you cant even craft lvl 65 gear to upgrade with.

not picking on you or anything, the post just highlights the problems again.

From what I see, the level 75 crafted armour (Guild or Rohirrim one shot crit) is an important set to get. Since it is crafted, it is fast to get and is generally better than most if not all quest armour. It will serve a player well as they grind out the S4M's for the 4 pieces of raid armour, and the other two pieces will still serve until the character can get a barter item from the Draigoch raid.

Now, I did come across a heavy armour boot world drop from Library Hard Mode from the final boss chest that was better, stats-wise, than what I had on, I dropped armour rating a few points (around 8-10, memory hazy), so there may be some other world drops that might be better from the level 75 scalable instances. But there is no guarantee that anything good will drop for you.

So I submit the crafted armour from 66-75 will be decent sellers...and of course the Crafted Third Age items will be big sellers, as it will be some time before we see the special symbols for the Second and Third Age become available.

Originally Posted by Kryhavoc99

From what I see, the level 75 crafted armour (Guild or Rohirrim one shot crit) is an important set to get. Since it is crafted, it is fast to get and is generally better than most if not all quest armour. It will serve a player well as they grind out the S4M's for the 4 pieces of raid armour, and the other two pieces will still serve until the character can get a barter item from the Draigoch raid.

Now, I did come across a heavy armour boot world drop from Library Hard Mode from the final boss chest that was better, stats-wise, than what I had on, I dropped armour rating a few points (around 8-10, memory hazy), so there may be some other world drops that might be better from the level 75 scalable instances. But there is no guarantee that anything good will drop for you.

So I submit the crafted armour from 66-75 will be decent sellers...and of course the Crafted Third Age items will be big sellers, as it will be some time before we see the special symbols for the Second and Third Age become available.

I worry that it sounds like you quite quickly replaced a crafted piece with an item from an instance, when they add more instances in update 5 with items that probably will be even better if they don't progress crafted gear also then crafted armour would be overlooked again, and its one reason i would like the crafted gear to have unique bonuses to remain desirable at end game.

I've had runs that didn't drop anything from all three chests or the drops were good for the other classes. Plus, if you had a Guardian or a Captain with you, they might have rolled on it just as well and won it. That particular run we had two champions and I got lucky on the roll. It all comes down to what the player wants, if they like the drop item better, they will take it. It did rearrange my stats a bit, but in favor of the build I was working on....someone else might not favor the same stats I do, even with Might being the primary focus.

One thing I have noticed since I have reached 75 is I am now spending time tweaking the secondary stats to try to achieve certain effects or see what happens. It seems you get your primary stat up high...then achieve a balance on the secondary stats. Currenly on Live you try to balance all your stats as best you can and that is reflected in the stats on various gear you get. That's why you see same numbers on a lot of the stats.