Thread: Compilation of changes to the Warden.

Originally Posted by Faithbringer

Don't swap on Frothmar ;-) ... simple fix. Just stand in there and roll your HoTs. Feels a lot like Watcher tanking .. me likee.

I've seen that. Even with all the HoT's ticking is that going to be enough? I don't want the healers screaming about all the heals they have to do on me. However that would simplify the issue we were having with the boulder throws. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Drglory

Threat+aggro leach+damage?? If this is an AoE i shall have much fun with this gambit... Much fun indeed.

This was what I was thinking too. If it is truely an AoE there will be much rejoicing!!

Originally Posted by lf2536

I still think battle memory as currently implemented is mostly useless, so I don't know what I'd do with another one, sacrifice another 5% of morale? no thanks.

I don't think the 5% is that big of a deal at end game, if you had 11k morale being level 75, the cost would only be 550 morale and with use that number just gets smaller.

But I would have to see at what level that ability become usable, because at 2k morale, even though the number is smaller it's a bit more noticeable when you lose 100 morale at 2k then 500 at 11k IMO and may result in screwing the newbies.

Edit: So, someone said it's 5% of max morale all the time and not current morale? That is fail.

I feel like a dog that's just been pacified by someone throwing it a bone... I should be indignant but... SHINY NEW STUN IMMUNITY YAY!!! Would like some numbers on the new skills but they look nice ^-^

Only thing if anything that could still use some changes with the proposed updates is Battle Memory, ideally I would like it to be http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-Battle-Memory but failing that it would be nice if it was 5% of current morale rather than max morale.

And when will we be seeing pet ferrets? Will this be before or at RoI?


Oh, and I'm gonna go update the OP with the new info.

There are some interesting and useful sounding changes here. I like the fact that you can see how some of the concerns we've voiced are being addressed directly. For these, I'm grateful.

Potency and battle memory however, feel like they're a significant part of the update yet they don't seem in keeping with the class nor are they something that I feel like I particularly need. They feel like a solution looking for a problem I guess?

I think I, personally, would rather that for now Orion implement the rest of the changes he's suggested and hold fire on potency and battle memory.

Besides, he's gonna be busy with all those minstrel changes to test.

Originally Posted by Antrius

I've seen that. Even with all the HoT's ticking is that going to be enough? I don't want the healers screaming about all the heals they have to do on me. However that would simplify the issue we were having with the boulder throws. Interesting.

It most definitely does work. Also, Conviction on this fight will make the healers love you anyways... even if they have to work a little harder to heal ya. Then again, I am spoiled by all the amazing healers in my kin.

Originally Posted by Faithbringer

It most definitely does work. Also, Conviction on this fight will make the healers love you anyways... even if they have to work a little harder to heal ya. Then again, I am spoiled by all the amazing healers in my kin.

When I was in there the last time CV did offset alot of the acid tick, so that is a good point.

Shield Tactics - "The Warden and his shield are as one.

Don't forget the ladies!

Nothing wrong with "The Warden and their shield are as one" or maybe just "Warden and shield become one".

Originally Posted by Lilka

Don't forget the ladies!

Nothing wrong with "The Warden and their shield are as one" or maybe just "Warden and shield become one".

Lol, "technically" in formal English using the masculine pronoun is proper however sexist it may seem

I really like those three new gambits. I just wonder how much threat does Aggression create? When you use the term agro in those gambits am I correct in assuming you meant threat? For me having agro is when a mob is targeting you because you are at the top of the threat list.

I also really like the thought of having two battle memory skills. My only question are you still planning on giving us the double builder masteries still? Without those double builder masteries battle memory would be useless while DPSing.


The only other things I would like to see addressed about wardens with the expansion (assuming that there will be a later fist revamp when you have the time) are:

Increased power sustainability while traited spear for DPS. Maybe have a gambit that decreases power usage for 15 secs. Or a 5 class trait set bonus that reduces power usage in that line.

Something that increases our dps a bit more while fully traited spear.

Ability to have a short in-combat sprint, or even a temporary slow immunity (balance for pvp).

I would still like to see someway that wardens can get an extra 5% to at least one of our b/p/e stats. Either added to a gambit, a stance, or the fist trait line bonus. Maybe as a balance for the extra b/p/e we also lose a decent chunk of melee damage, but also gain an increased threat for the loss of threat from dps.

Originally Posted by LtDiablo

Lol, "technically" in formal English using the masculine pronoun is proper however sexist it may seem

That's a very old, archaic form that nobody actually uses anymore, though. "Their" is perfectly acceptable, since everyone uses it anyway. It's not like someone sat down and made rules for English, like the Academie Francais does. English works by consensus, not technical rules.

Y'know, just sayin'.

Originally Posted by ANewMachine

That's a very old, archaic form that nobody actually uses anymore, though. "Their" is perfectly acceptable, since everyone uses it anyway. It's not like someone sat down and made rules for English, like the Academie Francais does. English works by consensus, not technical rules.

Y'know, just sayin'.

Well it must not be that old because the 2009 English book I had just last year for my English Comp 2 course in college still said the same thing so did my HS teacher my senior year in 08 so that's only a 2 year difference between the two classes.

And for the record, maybe it's just my college, but you should be able to take one exam on english and then be automatically qualified for those course if you score well enough. I got a 96 on the entrance exam in reading and comprehension and I still have to take 3 classes? Fail.

Originally Posted by ANewMachine

That's a very old, archaic form that nobody actually uses anymore, though. "Their" is perfectly acceptable, since everyone uses it anyway. It's not like someone sat down and made rules for English, like the Academie Francais does. English works by consensus, not technical rules.

Y'know, just sayin'.

Actually I learned that rule in middle and high school as well. I still cringe when I see "their" used in that situation. I prefer "his or her" to be used :-D.

Example: If the cashier would like to close his or her batch, then he or she may click "Close Batch" on the batch selection screen.

Originally Posted by LtDiablo

And for the record, maybe it's just my college, but you should be able to take one exam on english and then be automatically qualified for those course if you score well enough. I got a 96 on the entrance exam in reading and comprehension and I still have to take 3 classes? Fail.

OMG me too!

I passed my reading and comprehension exam with a 94 and I read constantly, literally constantly. Other kids get in trouble for playing Angry Birds in class, I got in trouble for reading Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee and The Grapes of Wrath at the same time. I sooo wish I could have replaced those 4 English subjects with science or something fun... 4 gym periods probably would have served me better than making me read more when I'm addicted to books in the first place.

Originally Posted by Faithbringer

It most definitely does work. Also, Conviction on this fight will make the healers love you anyways... even if they have to work a little harder to heal ya. Then again, I am spoiled by all the amazing healers in my kin.

why? why would you sit in that 2k a tick acid dot? All you need is a champion or LoM traited capt to force it off you for 10 seconds while you wipe it on the platform. Also, I decided to parse one of my frothmar kills.



nice mitigation, eh?



Back on topic though: I'm kinda glad to see these new gambits, but it's nothing we didn't know before really, just a few more specifics... but not enough to know how any of them will work.

If you're going to do it, do it right:
1) Make this "aggro dump" a -percieved threat% for a certain duration. Dumping a bunch of aggro may help us swap TO the other tank, but makes it a heck of a lot harder for us to get it back.(also, please change the name of this skill. It sounds more like a defensive buff rather than a threat dump)

2) Make the tact damage reduction a percentage, not another useless rating we can cap out without the skill. I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing in this stun immunity. I personally see no reason for there to be a 60-second lockout where we can't use it again, especially if it only dispells 1 stun per casting, even moreso for a length-4 gambit. Also, the stun immunity part becomes moot with a lore-master no matter how you choose to implement it.

3) This last one seems kinda meh, seeing as we already have 3 threat transfers, 2 of which are useful. Why not just make our Shield-Fist-Shield gambit do this exact thing? It's currently useless anyway. Unless, maybe, you had other plans for maddening strike?

As for second battle memory... I was under the impression I would be able to reliably prevent stuns with battle memory(one of the few things that would be worth a morale cost imo) but with the 60 second lockout I won't even be able to do that reliably. Potency/battle memory is just another thing I don't understand the cost of. We spend power on a gambit we don't normally use, take the time to build that gambit, AND the one we want to save, execute, and then have a morale cost tied to using it again. (although, if it was 5% of current health rather than max health I would feel much better about using it but, even then, I'm really not sure what gambits would be worth storing, especially in a raid environment where all I really need to worry about is defensive buffs, conviction, and the occasional corruption removal)

Originally Posted by Orion

Deflection - "When pressed and in need of respite the Warden is capable of using his shield to ward against further attacks." Currently - Requires Shield/Fist/Spear - drops aggro from the warden significantly and deals a little damage)

Shield Tactics - "The Warden and his shield are as one. Using the shield as a bulwark the Warden can product truly remarkable defensive capabilities." Requires Shield/First/Spear/Shield - increases tactical defence and provides short term immunity to stuns - stun immunity can only be applied once every 60 seconds.

Aggression - "A challenging shout that seems to come from all around the enemy drawing threat from the Warden's fellowship to the Warden." (Currently - Requires Fist/Shield/Spear - grabs aggro from the fellowship and deals damage)

This is awesome, superbly so. I spend most of my serious play time tanking, and use my Guardian for the hardest single-boss scenarios because of quick aggro grabs and good spike damage survival. These three new gambits make my Warden(s) more viable/valuable for these situations. Thanks!

Cheers,
Gloimli

Is it wrong for me to still view these changes with skeptic optimism? I feel like Orion just kind of tossed a bone so people would forget about the Minstrel changes. I dunno, I'm probably being silly about this.

I feel that the Warden can suffice in any situation. That is to say, I can fulfill the role another tank can, or that a DPS can. I do not feel, however, that I can excel in one of these roles. If I am to be a tank, let me be a tank on par with at least the AoE DPS class!

I like the look of these changes, I truly do. But I like them not because they are absolutely stellar, but because I, as a Warden, am a starving dog and I was just tossed a tiny scrap of meat. I would like anything disguised as a buff right now.

Originally Posted by helloIamAlds

One of the complaints I get a lot from the CC is that wardens make everything around them un-stunnable. We fling around so many dots that it's tough to take a single mob out of a fight unless the warden has been instructed to not touch it. I think *another* bleed would be counter-productive to our role in groups as tanks. Instead of a small dot I would prefer a different secondary effect or simply increased base damage.

not un-stunnable but un-mezzable. We LM's can stun stuff up the wazzo, but if the warden in the crew is doing leeches, it's almost impossible to keep a mez/daze lockdown, especially if everything ran in for the warden. Preventable, but it more than often happens. Sometimes it's perfectly fine to just let the Warden tank and just forget trying to mezz anything, but it's always a fist-shaker. I highly doubt they'll ever change how bad leeches are for mezzes. (like they did for hunter's fears and bleeds over time. /nudge)

I love grouping with wardens, especially if I only need to send them power, stun immune them and remove wounds, and don't need to have the "24/7 healing abilities" of an RK or a minstrel. (I totally despise needing a perfect trinity on my LM, especially for the forsaken inn "perfect fellowship" challenge.)

I'm excited for the wardens. (I have a little one, but I'm just more excited for the class, because I enjoy grouping with them on my LM. And if they end up being exceptional wardens all the better.) I hope those nice little additions Orion mentions come out good for you.
The aggro drops' one that I've heard asked for and am hopeful it shapes up. (Having finally faced Durin's Bane a few times, and even the guards' have it rough.) The stun immunity's pretty nifty to hear coming, my little warden's sat through a good many stuns, so I know it's pesky, but it's gotta be particularly nuisance for those tanking (even guards have a turn the tables skill for the occasional stun, so a little lovin' towards our other tanks, yay!)
Forgot the other one, but sounds like some nice little warden lovin'.

Nothing wrong with sceptic optimism, but please note that these are the exact things we asked for to make the warden viable in raids. ( well many of us in any case) IF we finger point now at the devs, we've got just as many fingers pointed back at us. Sure there will be some squabbling over details, but these are the changes WE'VE asked for, so I for one am for now satisfied (at least until I get to see the details).

And yeah, the threat dump should totally be a -perceived aggro buff with a 20s ish duration.

I'm not convinced we needed the 'snap aggro' skill, but sure as sharpies I'm not going to complain about it.

Originally Posted by geoboy

but please note that these are the exact things we asked for to make the warden viable in raids.

Yes, I get that. I'd have rather seen a rework of the Fist line, but I am pleased with what was given now, after all, that's all just semantics. My skepticism isn't about the changes, but about how they came about. Heh--I can't do a good job explaining myself, but the essence is that my personal feeling is that we're only being looked at because the devs are tired of hearing us ##### and moan.

The minstrels, to my knowledge, didn't really complain about all the things before they were changed, and yet they still got another whole update.

I just worry that, in the future, it'll take another long while for any changes that need to be addressed to be addressed.

Originally Posted by Orion

Deflection - "When pressed and in need of respite the Warden is capable of using his shield to ward against further attacks." Currently - Requires Shield/Fist/Spear - drops aggro from the warden significantly and deals a little damage)

Sounds great. I hope this is -perceived threat though, as opposed to being essentially a copy of Ebbing Ire.

Shield Tactics - "The Warden and his shield are as one. Using the shield as a bulwark the Warden can product truly remarkable defensive capabilities." Requires Shield/First/Spear/Shield - increases tactical defence and provides short term immunity to stuns - stun immunity can only be applied once every 60 seconds.

How long is the duration? Are we talking about e.g. 10 seconds of stun immunity out of every 60? With that long a lockout I'd hope it's a decent duration, e.g. 30 seconds.

Aggression - "A challenging shout that seems to come from all around the enemy drawing threat from the Warden's fellowship to the Warden." (Currently - Requires Fist/Shield/Spear - grabs aggro from the fellowship and deals damage)

Is this a forced taunt, or a threat leech, or a simple threat generator?

So, no, not fake. I am also toying with the idea of a second battle memory...depending on testing...this might appear at some point during the beta.

Huh. As long as the battle memory can be retained out of combat, this is intriguing. It'd be nice to have an interrupt and a corruption removal handy, for instance. I'm still not entirely keen on the general idea of Potency and Battle Memory, but I can see some situational uses.

Thanks for the updates!

Originally Posted by striverg

why? why would you sit in that 2k a tick acid dot? All you need is a champion or LoM traited capt to force it off you for 10 seconds while you wipe it on the platform. Also, I decided to parse one of my frothmar kills.



nice mitigation, eh?
)

This seems like argument for the sake of argument, but to answer your question: because I can and it works. :-D. Why stand in a 1k tick fire dot? Why stand in a 500 tick poison dot? Why stand on your legs? Why stand on a cat? Because I can and it's easy and it works :-).

Personally, I don't see the need for the charged gambits/potency/battle memory at this time. We don't need the added complexity. I'd rather just have those new gambits (except the 60s cooldown on the stun immunity), some better legacies, a fix to our traits (please don't put masteries on WotW...GMWT instead), and a rework somewhere to give us a viable secondary role. Maybe an overall ICPR buff too...Conservation barely provides enough, not to mention the other stances. This is a step in the right direction though, I suppose...

Originally Posted by Orion

Aggression - "A challenging shout that seems to come from all around the enemy drawing threat from the Warden's fellowship to the Warden." (Currently - Requires Fist/Shield/Spear - grabs aggro from the fellowship and deals damage)

So, no, not fake. I am also toying with the idea of a second battle memory...depending on testing...this might appear at some point during the beta.

Loving most of the changes.

But here, you use the word fellowship, does this mean that in a raid this would not grab anything from someone in the other group?

Originally Posted by Tolfast

Loving most of the changes.

But here, you use the word fellowship, does this mean that in a raid this would not grab anything from someone in the other group?

There are currently no skills in the game that target a raid, so it's safe to assume it will only work on your fellow.

chewing on my bone here, slightly happier but still growling and snapping.

Originally Posted by Aloro

Sounds great. I hope this is -perceived threat though, as opposed to being essentially a copy of Ebbing Ire.

While I would like to have some way to have -perceived threat, maybe in a stance, I think a dump is good too. If you're trying to perform whatever secondary role we're supposed to have (dps?) it would be nice to actually reduce your total threat. From a tank swapping standpoint, though, -perceived would definitely be better.

What I want to know is where does this dumped threat go? Does it vanish? Does it get pushed to whoever's 2nd on the threat list? Does it get distributed evenly among the group like a sort of reverse leech?

Originally Posted by Nydorewyth

While I would like to have some way to have -perceived threat, maybe in a stance, I think a dump is good too.

Absolutely. An aggro dump is still usable and is a lot better than the nothing we currently get.

What I want to know is where does this dumped threat go? Does it vanish? Does it get pushed to whoever's 2nd on the threat list? Does it get distributed evenly among the group like a sort of reverse leech?

It automatically finds the nearest Guardian in OP and gives them the threat. Payback! How's that awesome DPS now, huh? Huh?

Originally Posted by Regero

OMG me too!

I passed my reading and comprehension exam with a 94 and I read constantly, literally constantly. Other kids get in trouble for playing Angry Birds in class, I got in trouble for reading Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee and The Grapes of Wrath at the same time. I sooo wish I could have replaced those 4 English subjects with science or something fun... 4 gym periods probably would have served me better than making me read more when I'm addicted to books in the first place.

Holy shorts! Are you me from 3 years ago (read so much that I was banned for 6 months from reading since it was making me anti-social and interfering with my health/schoolwork and this was the Encyclopedia Britannica I'm talking about)? Unfortunately (or not), I got a laptop and cannot stop studying my hobby gaming (dnd, mtg, 40k, lotro etc) though I think it still counts. Now we just need to reconcile this grasshopper(blasphemy)/chicken business.

@Orion
It would have been overall better if you had worked on Minstrels before telling us what you had available. It seemed like you were saying that you can't loan us $5 because you were going to use it to loan to the next person who asked.

I agree with the people here. Deflection should be -Perceived Threat, Shield Tactics should be a percentage bonus to Tactical Defense, and Battle Memory should work off of current morale. No comment on the stun immunity until I see how long it lasts.

If Battle Memory is going through rather than fixes being given to legacies and traits (Colred's idea) then I would like to see more utility gambits in later updates that serve a better purpose in preparing beforehand and holding until ready as compared to building in battle (Regero's idea). As it is now I would store Reversal and Wall of Steel for general use, Conviction and Aggression for the dead periods (when my important masteries are down 5s in) for my tanking rotation, and two Warden's Triumphs for burst dps (great for the moors ).

Originally Posted by Drglory

Am I the only one that thinks turbine is trying to make us into the preferred tactical tanks? With Shield Tactics (assuming that is something like 10%) we should be well above guardians in mitigating tactical damage, and with our self heals we get a bit better. Maybe the new raid has a tactical fight built for warden tanks!

I would love it if they did that. Wait, actually I just had this idea a week ago. Having had a taste of Rift I thought that Turbine should up the Tactical fights in raids and make Wardens the primary Tactical tanks (medium armor may not work against the Sorcery of the Enemy but an unbreakable resolve sure as hell does) much as how Hunters are better Ranged tanks and Guards are better Melee tanks.

Judging by how little hard numbers we are getting I will conclude that we either are in for a somewhat longish update or one where we can't create any decent points and are thus ignored by Orion.

Neat 3 problems gone.

All that's left is:
Way of the Fist line revamp
Way of the Fist trait line revamp
Improved damage
Legacy revamp
Way of the Spear trait line revamp
Threat over time gambits (Front loaded)
Improved heal on leech gambits (Or whatever it was you were going to do with it)
Masteries not taking up a legendary trait or class trait (Shouldn't have to basically lose a trait slot for something that players are forced to intergrate into their playstyle in order to be viable in later game play)

I'll wait for the next Warden blog to come out....if there will even be one.

Actually maybe this is the warden blog,but then it took the warden community to get it going without a dev involved.

Maybe you should hand the reins over to someone else if it's not too much trouble for you to give the Warden class a proper update.

Why am i picking on you Orion? Not that you would care i'm sure but i sincerely believe that you cheated the Warden community out of something that could've been great. I'm pissed about what could've been. Since you're the developer working on (and i use that loosely) the warden update then someone has to take the blame simple as that.

Originally Posted by mikas131

Judging by how little hard numbers we are getting I will conclude that we either are in for a somewhat longish update or one where we can't create any decent points and are thus ignored by Orion.

You'd have to have a warden feedback thread for any of those things to currently be happening. That's why we are being ignored.

Notice how Orion just drops proposed warden changes randomly on us then is gone. We're getting the red headed step child treatment.

Originally Posted by HalProudFoot

Since you're the developer working on (and i use that loosely) the warden update then someone has to take the blame simple as that.

and that's why they pay PR ppl. I need to vent at someone.

Originally Posted by HalProudFoot

You'd have to have a warden feedback thread for any of those things to currently be happening. That's why we are being ignored.

Notice how Orion just drops proposed warden changes randomly on us then is gone. We're getting the red headed step child treatment.

MY EYES! TRIPLE POST WITH NO DISCLAIMER!!!! /joking

In all seriousness I see a longish update being more than one thread which is what we have been given. Also you're effectively shoring up the other point I made which was that we would receive just enough to form wildly incorrect opinions and/or understandings and then fight over them like starving dogs (see what I did there?) and end up being ignored. I see this happen all the time in other class forums and would hate to see it happen here to any large extent.

Incoming Separate Topic

I forgot to add this but I am also in agreement about our soloing ability. Everyone can solo. Everyone is likely soloing. So what if we can solo outdated content that you only now heard about since you joined after Moria. Big deal. If soloing ability actually mattered from a Dev standpoint then tanks and healers would be really gimped as to what they could do which would directly impact them in a group setting making the whole point of levelling them pointless.

/ramble

tl;dr Hal you are agreeing with my second assumption.
To the people who cry wolf about our soloing stop facerolling and learn to play (unless you're hunters. But then why are you here [troll troll troll]).

Originally Posted by Orion

Deflection - "When pressed and in need of respite the Warden is capable of using his shield to ward against further attacks." Currently - Requires Shield/Fist/Spear - drops aggro from the warden significantly and deals a little damage)

Shield Tactics - "The Warden and his shield are as one. Using the shield as a bulwark the Warden can product truly remarkable defensive capabilities." Requires Shield/First/Spear/Shield - increases tactical defence and provides short term immunity to stuns - stun immunity can only be applied once every 60 seconds.

Aggression - "A challenging shout that seems to come from all around the enemy drawing threat from the Warden's fellowship to the Warden." (Currently - Requires Fist/Shield/Spear - grabs aggro from the fellowship and deals damage)

So, no, not fake. I am also toying with the idea of a second battle memory...depending on testing...this might appear at some point during the beta.

Dude... I apologize for anything I may have said under my breath or in teamspeak..Well.. still concerned about having to basically relearn the class.. but.. if this is real..

Originally Posted by mikas131

MY EYES! TRIPLE POST WITH NO DISCLAIMER!!!! /joking

In all seriousness I see a longish update being more than one thread which is what we have been given. Also you're effectively shoring up the other point I made which was that we would receive just enough to form wildly incorrect opinions and/or understandings and then fight over them like starving dogs (see what I did there?) and end up being ignored. I see this happen all the time in other class forums and would hate to see it happen here to any large extent.

I forgot to add this but I am also in agreement about our soloing ability. Everyone can solo. Everyone is likely soloing. So what if we can solo outdated content that you only now heard about since you joined after Moria. Big deal. If soloing ability actually mattered from a Dev standpoint then tanks and healers would be really gimped as to what they could do which would directly impact them in a group setting making the whole point of levelling them pointless.

/ramble

tl;dr Hal you are agreeing with my second assumption. People who cry wolf about soloing. Stop facerolling and learn to play (unless you're hunters. But then why are you here [troll troll troll]).

Okay that made me laugh lol

Unless my brain is a fried egg i don't think i've ever touched on the soloing aspect of wardens while ranting to the Devs in this thread (except maybe to say that they solo really well). The reason being is i don't believe it applies to the warden update (If we can call it that).
Soloing it not something that the warden community has asked to be changed. I believe that the warden community has been very specific about what we need.

Am i trying to bait Orion into paying attention to the warden update for longer then just one post? You're dam right
Am i trolling for no reason? no

P.S. I apologize for the triple post,should've given fair warning.

Originally Posted by HalProudFoot

Okay that made me laugh lol

Unless my brain is a fried egg i don't think i've ever touched on the soloing aspect of wardens while ranting to the Devs in this thread (except maybe to say that they solo really well). The reason being is i don't believe it applies to the warden update (If we can call it that).
Soloing it not something that the warden community has asked to be changed. I believe that the warden community has been very specific about what we need.

Am i trying to bait Orion into paying attention to the warden update for longer then just one post? You're dam right
Am i trolling for no reason? no

P.S. I apologize for the triple post,should've given fair warning.

Sorry for confusing you especially since we are in agreement (again!). I meant the solo thing as a second topic altogether. I'll go add some additional spacing between the two to differentiate.

Originally Posted by Regero

Never Surrender-- This skill will become a Panic Button on a 20 minute cooldown. When activated the skill will apply the "Invincible" buff to you. If, during the 5 minutes that buff is on you, you drop beneath 5% morale, you are insta-healed for 75% of you morale and 50% of your power. After that the Invincible buff is removed and penalties are applied. These penalties are the same as the current Never Surrender.

Does panic button mean it no longer requires the rez response? cause that would be pretty sweet in the moors for 2v1s...

Originally Posted by gageithman

Does panic button mean it no longer requires the rez response? cause that would be pretty sweet in the moors for 2v1s...

That is indeed what it means, you can smack that pretty button whenever you like and get that uber-heal whenever you need.

And yes, it will be AWESOME for the moors. That plus a man heal and you have a wall of 20k+ morale for creeps to burn through.

So we get a useless skill, battle memory, and knowing that, he gives us another one.

Fantastic job. A+ work.

I love Warden, but I have no idea what to do. I'm not a tank. I am most DEFINITELY not DPS. I'm not a healer...

So why the hell do I play this class? I'm sick of it. I'm rolling a guardian or a champion or something that actually has a USE end game. This thread has made me realize how the dev's see the class. Tons of complaints, and then one little dev post with some same-old same-old "HERES A BUFF SKILL THAT ALSO HAS COMPLETE DOWNSIDES" tip-toe non-class changing bullcrap.

Quit dorkin' around and WORK on Warden.

Originally Posted by mikas131

Sorry for confusing you especially since we are in agreement (again!). I meant the solo thing as a second topic altogether. I'll go add some additional spacing between the two to differentiate.

No apology required. hehe