So we get a useless skill, battle memory, and knowing that, he gives us another one.
Fantastic job. A+ work.
I love Warden, but I have no idea what to do. I'm not a tank. I am most DEFINITELY not DPS. I'm not a healer...
So why the hell do I play this class? I'm sick of it. I'm rolling a guardian or a champion or something that actually has a USE end game. This thread has made me realize how the dev's see the class. Tons of complaints, and then one little dev post with some same-old same-old "HERES A BUFF SKILL THAT ALSO HAS COMPLETE DOWNSIDES" tip-toe non-class changing bullcrap.
Quit dorkin' around and WORK on Warden.
Fundamental issues aside did you really read the post? Four bones that the community has almost unanimously asked for (a panic skill, stun protection, snap aggro, and aggro swap tool) were delivered to us on a silver platter with two steaming cutlets of bonus meat in the form of a Tactical Defense Buff and an additional Battle Memory gives us some good utility.
I do believe there are better ways to go about changing the Warden but sarcasm and ragequitting ain't any of them.
Here's a funny picture to go along with this post. No offense if you have legitimate concerns.
"A smart man knows what to say, a wise man knows when to say it, and a clever man knows when to say someone else said it"
Mikas: Capstrel; 65 Rank 3
Nericlak: Indy Warden 65
Kylwev: Spider; Rank 6
Kylrev: Reaver; Rank 4
Sakim: Warleader; Rank 4 (Elendilmir)
+1 Cooky GET!!!!!
+1 XL Plate-O-Cookies GET!!!
Fundamental issues aside did you really read the post? Four bones that the community has almost unanimously asked for (a panic skill, stun protection, snap aggro, and aggro swap tool) were delivered to us on a silver platter with two steaming cutlets of bonus meat in the form of a Tactical Defense Buff and an additional Battle Memory gives us some good utility.
I do believe there are better ways to go about changing the Warden but sarcasm and ragequitting ain't any of them.
Here's a funny picture to go along with this post. No offense if you have legitimate concerns.
Lol, excellent use of Fry. I was about to go over to Memebase and dig him up for some of the stuff going on around here.
And I agree with you, we did get most of our big issues resolved and we are much much better off because of it. What most people are mad about is that mini's got a huge, confusing, very arguably unneeded, update while wardens, who still have multiple issues (a multitude of defunct/outdated skills, an entirely useless and unused trait line, a lot of legacies that just feel like filler space, etc.) got those issues passed over again. Most of us just nodded and were grateful for what we got when Orion said that there was no time for a Fist Line revamp. We then got very irritated when we discovered that, while there was no time to revamp fist, legacies, maybe some Fist gambits, there was plenty of time for a cosmetic make over of the mini.
I am also annoyed at the classes getting the major overhauls and attention. Champions tank FINE now, they are off-tanks, tanking is their secondary role, they should not be replacements for guardians and wardens. All that class possibly needed was a little love to Dire Need and Ardor. And mini's are arguably the most solid class in lotro now, they not only have solid roles, they have THREE of them: they buff, DPS, and of course heal. Yes, I realize their DPS isn't sustainable, but that's fine: they are HEALERS. If you want DPS, go roll a DPS; no exceptions. The only reason I even tentatively push for slightly more DPS for wardens if because we need some sort of reliable secondary role. Once again: "If it's not broken, don't fix it".
At first I was very nervous about the warden updates, I assumed the devs would give in to all those idiots who claim we need a nerf because we can solo well, and we would thus be nerfed in the solo department while (maybe?) being buffed in raids. I couldn't see anyway this would work and was deathly afraid that the class would be broken. Now though, that I can see that isn't the case, I would rather prefer that we got at least some love to Fist Line or some of our defunct gambits rather than spending so much effort where it's not needed.
I guess atm my thoughts can be summed up with:
and here, have an unrelated miku just for the sake of derail:
Ghost Bear see problem. Nice peoples looking at Horse mouth. Ghost bear look at Horse belly. Horse make good snack!
Shield Tactics - "The Warden and his shield are as one. Using the shield as a bulwark the Warden can product truly remarkable defensive capabilities." Requires Shield/First/Spear/Shield - increases tactical defence and provides short term immunity to stuns - stun immunity can only be applied once every 60 seconds.
While I need to see more #s (like how long the buffs last), I will make this comment.
It's a 4-builder gambit, meaning we will not see it for a while in our warden's career (presently, level 31 is our first 4-builder gambit right now I believe.) I'd really like to see getting this earlier. I've wanted this quite a lot in my leveling (have died because of not having it ), and I know I have had many a word when I played a class and was in a situation where I wanted an interrupt, but did not have the skill yet for that class (interrupts is one place the warden shines, getting his first one before even leaving the intro - Das Boot )
I have my opinion on which of the other two I think it could be swapped for, but I'll keep that to myself as we have all heard how you do not like that kind of feedback.
Run Away... Run Away...
((Warning - Player has a severe case of Alt-itis))
Um, and this is Orion's fault why? Everyone else seems to know what to do. Read a guide.
I'm not a tank.
Oh dear. So you're not tanking well and now the class is broken. KK.
I'm not a healer...
Don't believe anyone ever said the warden was a healer.
If you're so very confused as to what the class is and you're still deft-striking boars and bellowing like a wounded ox 'What do I doooo?', maybe just maybe you're not the most qualified to offer suggestions for improvement?
If you are, however, a functioning player with some warden capabilities, maybe a post where you state your concerns and frustrations with the class and some possible solutions would be a more valuable use of forum space.
If you're so very confused as to what the class is and you're still deft-striking boars and bellowing like a wounded ox 'What do I doooo?', maybe just maybe you're not the most qualified to offer suggestions for improvement?
If you are, however, a functioning player with some warden capabilities, maybe a post where you state your concerns and frustrations with the class and some possible solutions would be a more valuable use of forum space.
Or, I suppose you could use that forum space to systematically insult someone who is simply a bit confused as to the current direction and changes the Warden is facing.
You know. In case you want to.
Sure, he's being a bit...less than tactful as to his confusion, but that does not mean you need come in and speak with an equal or lesser amount of tact that he possesses at this point in time.
Last edited by Leriff; Jun 17 2011 at 05:48 AM.
Isilene Valcrest: In the absence of the sun, he'll do.
I couldn't find a picture of a ferret eating popcorn, so here is one eating food pellets
Where now is the lolcat and the derailer? Where is the troll that was trolling?
Where is the URL and the youtube, and the snappy retort flowing?
Where is the hand on the keyboard, and the LCD screen glowing?
They have passed like rain on the thread, like a wind in the post;
The days have gone down in the forums behind the cookys into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the nubs not searching,
Or behold the flowing derails from the Sea returning?
I am new to the Warden class, but why do we have Perseverance and Never Say Die? Wouldn't it make more sense to combine them into 1 trait? It seems unfair we have to take two traits that do the same thing. I do like the new 4 set bonus to Shields though, an extra pulse is much more healing then 10%.
It is nice to see more Combo Gambits that will help make playing a Warden easier And the Potency and Battle Memory seems like it will really help for dungeons. I think the names are a little bit blah.
I am new to the Warden class, but why do we have Perseverance and Never Say Die? Wouldn't it make more sense to combine them into 1 trait? It seems unfair we have to take two traits that do the same thing. I do like the new 4 set bonus to Shields though, an extra pulse is much more healing then 10%.
It is nice to see more Combo Gambits that will help make playing a Warden easier And the Potency and Battle Memory seems like it will really help for dungeons. I think the names are a little bit blah.
c-c-c-c-combo breaker
Where now is the lolcat and the derailer? Where is the troll that was trolling?
Where is the URL and the youtube, and the snappy retort flowing?
Where is the hand on the keyboard, and the LCD screen glowing?
They have passed like rain on the thread, like a wind in the post;
The days have gone down in the forums behind the cookys into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the nubs not searching,
Or behold the flowing derails from the Sea returning?
Pft, he only "won" because the Ferret danced away successfully. It's a win by default, and if you claim anything other than you shall be registered as a ferret hater and shall be banned from posting here.
Originally Posted by lf2536
c-c-c-c-combo breaker
LOL!
Originally Posted by striverg
It must really suck being the most effective tanking class.
Ah, but of course they could always be more effective. Just like the champions were awesome AOE DPS but asked for more. I'm totally being classist here, but imo: The Warden, Lore Master, and maybe Captain forums are the only communities worth listening too; the others all just shout "ZOMG! Need moar DPS!/Healing/Crowd Control!!!"
Ghost Bear see problem. Nice peoples looking at Horse mouth. Ghost bear look at Horse belly. Horse make good snack!
Pft, he only "won" because the Ferret danced away successfully. It's a win by default, and if you claim anything other than you shall be registered as a ferret hater and shall be banned from posting here.
Then it's a good thing we're not ferrets
Originally Posted by Graalx2 -Directed at Wardens!
You guys!!! There is such a thing as being too efficient.
While i love the idea of a second memory gambit (oh so much), i still feel 5% is a tad much, and makes it at best a situational tool. don't see it worth using it often in non-raid content with that much, ya know?
Feel free to disagree, would still love the cost dropped to 3-4%.
While i love the idea of a second memory gambit (oh so much), i still feel 5% is a tad much, and makes it at best a situational tool. don't see it worth using it often in non-raid content with that much, ya know?
Feel free to disagree, would still love the cost dropped to 3-4%.
I agree. 5% of current morale would be ok. 5% of max morale is steep enough that I'll be careful when I use it. Sure, there will be times when I'll have enough healing that I won't mind shooting myself in the foot in order to fire off a quick gambit, but, put another way, shooting yourself in the foot isn't fun and probably isn't best done casually.
I agree. 5% of current morale would be ok. 5% of max morale is steep enough that I'll be careful when I use it. Sure, there will be times when I'll have enough healing that I won't mind shooting myself in the foot in order to fire off a quick gambit, but, put another way, shooting yourself in the foot isn't fun and probably isn't best done casually.
then why don't we make that a legacy?
Base costs -> 5%
1 Minor/Major legacy that at rank 9 can reduce the costs with 2%?
Expensive to level, each rank does 0.2%?
Might even result in people using the legacies instead of putting stats on their LI.
Borfini Warden :: Borf Minstrel :: Alitaeran Lore-Master
Bakbash reaver
Fate of Norns on Snowbourn [EU]
Spear Gambits-- Will possibly have their threat output reduced.
I really really really hope that this wont happen! Atm that is our strength against guards at tanking. We can do lot more dps and still keep aggro than guardian. And tanking with spear gambits is way more power efficent... I dont want to start Precise blow spamming again. That ruins our power and will make us probably build again more will/fate than might/agi... I love our tanking now how it is. But please, do not touch on our spear gambit threat
It must really suck being the most effective tanking class.
Not at all. I was referring to "The lack of information is getting worrisome, and I wonder where the dev team is with the warden class." which I clearly quoted. As guards have not heard anything from a dev yet. I quite enjoy my class as it is now, thanks.
Honestly, even though I don't play a guard, I'm really interested in seeing what is in store. I hope it's something super snazzy (without making us obsolete).
I was thinking along the lines of the 5% morale cost discussion....
Has anyone ever proposed that DbtD be usable at any time with the additional cost of reducing you to 50% morale if used at a time when you are above 50% morale?
Or does this suggestion offend True Wadens with leet morale surfing skillz?
I was thinking along the lines of the 5% morale cost discussion....
Has anyone ever proposed that DbtD be usable at any time with the additional cost of reducing you to 50% morale if used at a time when you are above 50% morale?
I have often thought this, but can't remember if I ever put it into words on the forums. Either way, it's an idea I would support. It would greatly increase our ability to maintain DPS while not making use any more powerful solo. Plus there's nothing worse than building DBtD (a five-builder gambit) only to discover your health has passes 50%.
The list should probably include mention of the final nail being driven into the coffin of our case for tanking high-end content:
Originally Posted by Developer Diary
Finesse is a ratings-based stat that will directly reduce the Resistance of [players] as well as their Block/Parry/Evade ratings. .... Most landscape monsters won’t have much if any Finesse but expect high difficulty instance/raid Boss monsters to have quite a bit.
The list should probably include mention of the final nail being driven into the coffin of our case for tanking high-end content:
Er, to me, this looks like a good thing for tanks. It means that stacking more defenses is a good thing to do. I think it'll push Shield to the fore as *the* tanking line for raids, because you need to offset the Finesse penalties. It will also likely broaden the survivability gap between tanks (who have the capacity to stack resistance and BPE to offset Finesse) and DPS classes (who will instead be stacking their own Finesse for DPS purposes). OP guards, Spear Wardens, and Fervour champs will probably have a lot harder time with life in the tank role post-update, because of Finesse. This is a good thing overall.
I'm not convinced it's any different from radiance - not as a gating mechanism, but a raid based reward that assists in raiding.
Only for DPS classes, really. A bit for tanks so they can hit with their threat skills, but it looks like, in raids at least, Finesse on enemies will force tanks to stack much more mitigation and avoidance than they previously had to, and mob DPS will likely be increased to deal with the now-higher avoidance caps. Isn't this exactly what we asked for - more mob DPS, and higher tank survivability, to broaden the gap between DPS and tank? Finesse appears to have no benefit for healers, and minimal benefit for tanks (again, just so they can hit/not be resisted).
Only for DPS classes, really. A bit for tanks so they can hit with their threat skills, but it looks like, in raids at least, Finesse on enemies will force tanks to stack much more mitigation and avoidance than they previously had to, and mob DPS will likely be increased to deal with the now-higher avoidance caps. Isn't this exactly what we asked for - more mob DPS, and higher tank survivability, to broaden the gap between DPS and tank? Finesse appears to have no benefit for healers, and minimal benefit for tanks (again, just so they can hit/not be resisted).
From how I understand it, the chance of US getting hit will also be modified by finesse.
From how I understand it, the chance of US getting hit will also be modified by finesse.
The way I read it was that enemy bosses will have Finesse, so we'll need higher BPE to counteract that.
Originally Posted by Dev Diary
For all of those players who think the random number generator has it out for them this is the stat for you. Finesse is a ratings-based stat that will directly reduce the Resistance of monsters as well as their Block/Parry/Evade ratings. This stat will appear primarily on instance/raid/pvmp loot but there will be a few pieces available with Finesse from quests and crafting.
This new stat is a two sided weapon because monsters will have access to it also. Most landscape monsters won’t have much if any Finesse but expect high difficulty instance/raid Boss monsters to have quite a bit.
Not sure where in there you're getting that it'll add to our defenses at all. It just looks like the "Penetrate Resist" and "-BPE" stats that RKs and Hunters have on their LIs (or skirmish soldiers have on traits), combined, and given to everyone.
perhaps this'll mean that as tanks we'll get more points to our BPE ratings from might and agility then other classes, as we'll need it to combat Finesse.
Where now is the lolcat and the derailer? Where is the troll that was trolling?
Where is the URL and the youtube, and the snappy retort flowing?
Where is the hand on the keyboard, and the LCD screen glowing?
They have passed like rain on the thread, like a wind in the post;
The days have gone down in the forums behind the cookys into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the nubs not searching,
Or behold the flowing derails from the Sea returning?
perhaps this'll mean that as tanks we'll get more points to our BPE ratings from might and agility then other classes, as we'll need it to combat Finesse.
We will be getting much more BPE from might and agility, but not (as far as I know) more than the other classes. Imo, the increases to our 5 raw stats, specifically might and agility, should offset Finesse to the point that any changes will be minor. What I LOVE about these changes though is that wardens will finally be able to take full advantage of our BPE buffs.
With this new system both guardians and wardens will have substantially more BPE than champions, which helps offset their new survivability, and wardens will have more BPE than guardians which (coupled with our new tactical defense gambit) makes us more appealing.
Finesse doesn't seem like a big change imo, I doubt it will change much of anything. It's just, as stated in the dev diary, a way to offset the random number generator a bit. It may be significant, it may not, but I cant believe it will come even close to what Radiance was.
Ghost Bear see problem. Nice peoples looking at Horse mouth. Ghost bear look at Horse belly. Horse make good snack!
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"A smart man knows what to say, a wise man knows when to say it, and a clever man knows when to say someone else said it"
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), and I know I have had many a word when I played a class and was in a situation where I wanted an interrupt, but did not have the skill yet for that class (interrupts is one place the warden shines, getting his first one before even leaving the intro - Das Boot 
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