Thread: Healing rune-keepers

Hey all you healing rune-keepers out there!*

(* if you seldomly heal, please keep to the background )

I am almost exclusively healing on my rune-keeper and I would like to discuss some parts of the healing, for instance the legendary heals and AoE/multiple target healing. Are we meant to be main healers when we take our LIs, traits and legendaries into the battlefield? AS capable as minstrels, but harder to play or the same with our DPS, about 80% of our dedicated counterpart (hunters-DPS and minstrels-healing)

Our biggest weakness lies in AoE healing, yes we have rousing words, but for the 6,5s it takes to perform it (never mind hits setting it back, being interrupted when you need to move, which is bound to happen with 6,5s channel duration) it does not heal even as much as 70% of the 2,5s induction minstrel heal without cooldown.
There are people who claim they can heal about as much as a minstrel can for multiple targets, by sticking HoTs on them, this is not true. In 2,5s there is not a whole lot a rune-keeper can do for group healing, even when you have multiple HoTs stuck on your fellowship. There is ofcourse the ~1800 (6x 300) morale he can heal with rousing words for the group, but in a time where everyone is at 7-11k morale, this is not a whole lot.

I would suggest making this skill heal around 300 per second and keep the channel duration with increased power cost. It is still 6,5s in which the rune-keeper cannot do anything else and it would net heal less then the minstrels group healing (and minstrels would STILL have the ability to use 1 group heal and then heal the tank, if the RK needs to interrupt rousing words, it has a cooldown!)

A snap or on-the-move heal would not be unwelcome. Since Chord of salvation can be done on the run, a skilled minstrel can really heal more efficient, its really good! I was thinking about a heal of 500 with a similar cooldown of 30s or more, which becomes ~30% greater for each tier of writ of health on the target! This would still require some planning ahead to make it effective.

Ideas for more penalty on the skill (as it might be a bit overpowered):
- Consume 1, 2 or all tiers of writ of health on the target
- Give a +power cost after each use that lasts 10s (+25%)
- some sort of debuff for inc damage or less inc healing on RK


The legendary heal
That Which Does Not Kill Us, a very impressive name with a very unimpressive effect. This is supposed to be the Fellowships Heart for a RK? It doesnt even heal half as much! The ICMR component is next to useless.

I have some ideas for the skill to be legendary!
- Applies tier 3 writ of health on entire fellowship
- Half the heal it applies now to compensate for the above (still 30s)
- Getting below 50% morale with this skill on grants a power-over-time effect of 200/2s for 10s

This would allow the RK to chain it with Essay of Exaltation and have (in combination with the snap heal skill) some nice benefits other then just a HoT...




Thanks for reading

Very interesting and good suggestions, especially about our legendary heal; I've been content with the heal as it still saves my groups on it's own, but regardless, when comparing it to Fellowship's Heart I agree it could probably use a little boost.

As for Rousing Words it's really a more powerful AoE heal than you give it credit for; don't forget to factor in the Rune of Endurance trait giving it a 30% healing boost whenever your stone is out (reason I say this is because I'm not sure the tooltip factors in the heal boost due to the way the trait effect is worded). Also, it seems to not heal once, but twice per second (another bug yet to be fixed? I think this was supposed to have been fixed already Note: Supposed) so it's really possibly healing double what the number on the skill tooltip says. Finally, from practice using it in many, many instances and raids, it's a good and effective reactionary heal believe it or not, despite what the numbers on the tooltip say (which is why I question the accuracy of the tooltip; from my experience Rousing Words' heal is putting out more than what that tooltip says it is and I've rescued whole groups with it.)

When they say we're good at healing on the go, I guess they mean our HoTs (which count I guess ). HoTs however are really more maintainence heals, not heals you'd use to save someone in mortal danger. I agree we need mobile burst heals as our current list consists of Essay of Exultation (prolly spelled that wrong) with a 10 min(?) cooldown and our weaksuce Prelude to Hope. However, I would say that instead of making a new skill for this purpose, we should completely change the current, complete garbage, epic of the ages into such a heal and give Prelude and our pet rock a buff.

Lastly, I would say the only real advantage we prolly have over Minstrels is that we don't burn our power as fast, we have a bubble with a 1min cooldown, and our "version" of Lay of the Hammerhand doesn't consume as much power and gives IMO better long-term protection to the fellowship.

Well, there's my 2 cents.

OK a little background on me, been playing Lotro for over 3 years started my minnie before there was warspeach even. My RK can heal better than my mini no questions asked and both are traited for heals. The only real area that RKs lack in healing is an effective incombat REZ (yes we have do not fall this day but you have to see it coming in order to get it on before they die) so if the tank is basically one shotted we're SOL.

One area I disagree with you (it seems) is on AOE healing. Personally if you're AOE healing with mini jor RK you're messing up. The AOE healing is Aggro heavy and unless your group is just fouling up by the numbers a healer should not be using AOE heals (again this is my opinion) but instead should be (as I term it) spot healing. This means click on the fellow that needs heals and heal him. I find it easiest to click on the name in the fellowship list as opposed to trying to click on thier actual character (especially Melee classes) so as a result have no use for the "ASSIST" window (GASP!!!!!!!). This of course is another big group NO-NO in mo st peoples eyes, but unless the group I'm with just has no idea of how to keep aggro off the healer my groups don't wipe either.

Minis who spam inspire fellow may be shot... by the mobs. Rousing words is threat free, but that by itself is not a good reason to use it (even when traited Rune of Endurance).

Yes, for the 6.5s channeled duration, it heals more than 3 MVs, but how much of that is overhealing? Unless we are talking about Ivar T2 or something, quite a bit, I would guess. Usually no more than 3 people in the fellowship is taking damage, in which case individual healing is probably more effective. Besides, 6.5s channeled duration is also 6.5s during which we are not refreshing writs/re-bubble/etc.

Re: spike damage - isn't there something to be said about maintenance HoTs lessening spike damage? Not by much, of course. And Epic for the Ages needs a revamp. Even when traited, it still heals less than 2 MVs for the same induction time. It's truly tragic.

Lastly, re: Shall not Fall - can people with 3 piece OD share if they are inclined to wear the set for the +120s duration, and if so, does that change how they use the skill (e.g. for mitigation more than rez)?

Originally Posted by CyberCanon

One area I disagree with you (it seems) is on AOE healing. Personally if you're AOE healing with mini jor RK you're messing up. The AOE healing is Aggro heavy...

I could be wrong, but I thought the RK group heal (Rousing words) didn't generate any threat?

Maybe I'm out to lunch, I dunno, but I find it easier to heal groups on my RK and easier to heal single-target on my minstrel. Between my rock, rousing words, putting prelude on everyone in my group and the ability to keep at least tier one Writ of Health on everyone who might need it, I feel pretty well equipped in the group-heals department - especially when we toss in wondrous foreshadowing, essay of exaltation and that which does not kill us (which I honestly forgot all about until reading this thread).

Whereas on my mini (and again, I may be out to lunch), I don't even have that many group-wide heals. I have Inspire Fellows, which is a major power-suck, Triumphant Spirit (looooong CD), and Fellowship's Heart (reeeeeeeally loooooong CD). So as a mini I can pump out one sorta decent group heal, but I'd better have a great power-sharing LM or two or three with me...

If I'm doing something wrong, dear fellow healers, I'd love to know.

RK's rousing words generates no threat, but minis AoE heals do.

I don't play a mini so I am not 100% sure what our minis are doing, but what I see is that when there is a boss that does large and regular AoEs (Ivar for example), Wondrous Foreshadowing is great but isn't up all the time. I keep a rock down and use rousing words, try to keep writ on as many people as possible and throw a mending verse or two on each person, but when WF is on cooldown, rousing words alone is not enough to get the group to full health and the hots I have on take time to work.

In that same time, a mini is using inspire fellows and/or putting individual heals on each fellow member (mainly bolster). When they get the single target heal they are at full health, whereas my HoTs are still working on it, and they are at 3/4th or 4/5ths health. Then you get the next AoE.

In a boss like Ivar, you need to save EoE and TWDNK for late in the fight, just as the minis are saving their long cooldown, big heals for the last stages. If you have an LM in group, the minis can go to town with inspire fellow and bolster and quickly get the group to full health after big hits, whereas the RK heals take time even when you have WoH on 5/6 people and are using rousing words. Now if Epic were actually a practical skill to use, maybe that would make up for the difference, but the induction is just far too long for me to be willing to use it.

I don't tend to use AFE for damage reduction, so maybe I am doing something wrong. But I know that for bosses that do fairly big AoE damage, my kin prefers to have at least one mini in the group.

I'm trying to imagine fighting Frothmar, Ivar, or Durin's Bane without using AoE heals. It's not going very well.

I'd like to see Epic for the Ages turned into something useful (I vote for an insta-cast buff that applies a large heal 3-5 seconds later), and the EftA trait turned into a Rousing Words trait that reduces the channel duration, ups the healing to compensate, and reduces the cooldown.

I don't mind TWDNKU, though with the FH changes I'd kind of like to see its cooldown drop to 5-8 minutes.

Just one thing to add. last time we were doing NCF with Mini as healer ME(rk) as dps and guard as tank the Mini totaly FAILED on healing at the last boss where i NEVER and i say NEVER failed.

I personally think that us RKs are better overall healers then minis. true we don´t have the oh "·$% buttons that the minis seem to but if your a good rk with a decent group you shouldn´t really need them. RK´s as healers, have to be proactive with the healing. we cant let the tank get to half health before we toss a heal his way. We have to have him HOTed as fast as possible in the beginning of the fight. That is really our weak area is the beginning, when we don´t have our attunement up yet. I have found i can mitigate that some what with master of writs but that does hit the power hard in the beginning. I would like to see epic of ages cast time brought down some tho. its a big heal but by the time it goes off its to late sometimes. other then that i think our healing is pretty good. i like that im always busy watching my HOTs and having to being one step ahead of the mobs and the mechanics keeps me on my toes.

Originally Posted by AirforceNUKE

I personally think that us RKs are better overall healers then minis.

I agree with this.

I also don't want analogies of minstrel skills to fill in our perceived gaps.
I played a Mins hard for about a year and have played an RK somewhat hard for about a year. I much prefer healing on the RK to the Mins.

For every place we're deficient compared to a mins, there is something we can do that they can't. RKs can hit 10% higher outgoing healing than mins, they have a much easier time with power management and they bring their assortment of steady-attuned skills that can be more useful than any Mins skill in certain situations. Mins are pretty much even keel all the way around. They don't really excel in a certain type of content, while my belief is that RKs are good all around and just plain great in certain instances.

They might not have the big 3-4K-a-pop heal numbers of a mins, but they can, in certain instances, negate 100% of thousands of points of damage. That's better than a big heal in my book. And they can do it every 24s, etc... I know it's content dependent, but coupled with our 2 big gruop heals, it's nothing to feel slighted about. IMO of course.

I think RK healing is in a very good place right now.

I prefer to heal on my RK, and find it is way easier to keep a group at full health than it is when I am dpsing in a group and a mini is healing. My power is so rarely an issue I can't think of the last time I needed a Lore Master to pass me any when healing. We are working our way through T2 OD content and if I'm healing, I'm usually the designated tank healer while the mini's are healing the raid. I wind up passing out HoT's all over the place, keep the tank at full health and throw in a group heal when needed to take the pressure off the mini. I can't stand seeing half the group at half health. Am I over healing at times? Maybe, but since the tank can absorb that 8k spike of damage he just got hit with, who cares? If my power bar is full at the end of the fight, no one died, then I'm happy.

I've been in the same wings as dps and find I hate being half health all the time, the mini's are out of power and you KNOW there is a spike aoe coming. If you plan to heal, you need to spend the time to make yourself the best healer you can be. You need the right relics, legacies and anything else you can come up with that will make you able to actually excel at it.

I have different sets of rune stones and bags for each role I'm going to fill. It's alot of work, but worth it in the end, atleast to me. If you add a good tank that knows what he's doing, there isn't an instance you can't run on any tier setting and heal easily as a RK.

My rk and mini are both only around level 40 but I can say that I find healing on my rk better than my mini at least so far. When I was doing my gb runs in the 20s my mini would have trouble keeping everyone healed and be gasping for power easily. My rk never once had trouble keeping everyone healed and was even able to prevent wipes that I know would have happened had I been on my mini. And my rk has only once been gasping for power when I had a couple of bad hunters that refused to listen and I had to use a ton of heals on them along with the tank to keep everyone alive. And rousing words is an awesome AoE heal that was able to keep my group in gb from wiping a lot where if I had been on my mini I would have been drawing a ton of aggro and getting killed thus causing the wipe. Also unlike the mini rks also have a heal aggro magnet that can draw mobs off us and we have our armour of storm(with lightning stone) that can daze any mobs that are meleeing us which is great in maze at the last fight for all the arms and wights.

I agree that RK AoE healing is problematic in end-game raids. Here is my ideas that can fix it:

- Increase the healing output of Rousing Words and Sigil of Restoration.
- Make RW an uninterruptable (regardless of All Fates Entwined) skill like Smouldering Wrath.
- Make each HoT on the target increase RW heal (like how Fiery Ridicule and Conflagration of Runes trait work).
- Reduce the cooldown on Essay of Exaltation and That Which Does Not Kill Us (even Fellowship's Heart's cooldown is being reduced to 5 min).
- Add a new aoe healing skill that requires 6 healing attunement and applies writ of health tier 3 to all fellowship, or tie it to TWDNKU like OP suggested.

And for healing in general:

- Make Epic for the Ages our emergency spot heal like mini's Chord of Salvation, immediate heal with no induction, 30 sec - 1 min cd, can be cast on the move. Terse Narrative trait could reduce its cooldown and power cost, increase the amount it heals etc.
- Make calming verse a toggle skill, when healing traited and both linnod traits are equipped.
- Make RKs a reliable in combat rezzer. Shall Not Fall This Day should work as a reactive rez as well if The Prophetic Word trait is equipped, but with induction and longer cooldown. It should work the same for casting it before the target dies. This is important, because incombat rez is a big deal in raids.
- Add utility to healing RKs (that cant be provided by dps RKs), they should provide something useful other than heals, like minstrel's groupwide buffs.

Originally Posted by cnrsnl

- Add utility to healing RKs (that cant be provided by dps RKs), they should provide something useful other than heals, like minstrel's groupwide buffs.

Perhaps add buffs to the heals themselves. For instance, some combination of the following:

Improved Writ of Health: Recipients of Writ of Health receive a 3% damage increase per Writ tier.

Improved Word of Exaltation: Target receives +25% run speed for duration of bubble.

Improved Prelude to Hope: Target receives -2% attack duration per point of healing attunement; lower bound is 0%.

Improved Glorious/Wondrous Foreshadowing: In addition to the healing bonus, buff recipients' induction times are reduced by 10%.

I think Rune-Keeper healing is perfect the way it is now and any additional buffs are, of course, welcome but not needed.

Now before the flames come, allow me to give myself a little credibility here: I have been a main healer in every initial clear my kinship has done for every raid since DN. This includes T2 Ivar CM where I was one of two healers (the other being a minstrel) when we took it down. We've been clearing it with this set up every week since.

A few things regarding my build before I begin: I build for high Outgoing Healing as well as a ICPR. My Outgoing Healing rating is always between 10.8k and 11k and my ICPR rating is usually around 1.1k even. Although I do find crits to be important, I do not stack for it. Unbuffed my tact crit rating sits at around 3.5k-3.6k.. but with captain buffs I have no problem maxing it out. I also have Calming Verse (see below) up at all times and keep Linnod of Subtlety (see below) and Linnod of Peace (see below) both equipped at all times, giving me an instant -20% healing & damage threat and +10% outgoing healing & damage buff for a 1 minute duration on a 1 minute cooldown. So these factors might influence my post a bit.

I find Rousing Words (see below) to be an incredible AOE heal. Now to make this even more incredible, you keep Calming Verse up, trait Rune of Endurance (see below), add in the Wonderous Foreshadowing Legendary trait (see below), then toggle on All Fates Entwined (see below) for the duration of your channeled heal, then simply toggle it off once the heal is completed.

Now I understand that in the Ivar Fight and any fight like it, whether you have All Fates Entwined up or not, you will get knocked back. What I've been doing successfully with fights like that is I have been tiering up Writ of Health (see below) with the Writ of Well Being trait equipped (see below), and tiering my entire fellowship up to either 2 or 3 throughout the fight. Once the knockback hits, I drop my rune-stone and then do a Rousing Words. My entire fellowship goes up to three quarters to full health by the time Rousing Words has finished. Then you go back and start tiering up your writs once more.

I do not use Prelude to Hope (see below) - if at all - when I am healing. Yes, it's another HoT, true, but the power cost on it is greater than the power cost of both Mending Verse (see below) and Writ of Health and the animation takes just as long as a Mending Verse induction or a Writ of Health induction. Don't believe me? Time it. I simply consider this a self heal if I'm kiting.

Our heals are amazing because they stack over eachother, allowing us to keep a constant stream of green numbers over our group even when we're actively healing someone else. Minstrel heals have big numbers, true, but they don't have the luxury of over healing their group like we do.

In the end, both Rune-Keepers and Minstrels are both competent healers; you simply cannot say that one is a better healer than the other and compare them by their heals because they do not work the same way.

And, again, while I think buffs to this side of the Rune-Keeper are welcome they simply are not necessary. We can give other healing classes a run for their money as we are now.

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QUICK REFERENCE FOR THOSE UNFAMILIAR WITH RUNE-KEEPER HEALERS:


Calming Verse: This is a skill that, without anything traited for it, gives both -10% damage threat and healing threat. It has a 1.5 second induction and sits at a 30 second duration with a 1 minute cooldown.

Linnod of Subtlety: A trait under the Cleansing Fires line, it increases the Calming Verse duration by 30 seconds while decreasing threat brought on by damage and giving a +10% increase to Rune-Keeper skill damage.

Linnod of Peace: A trait under Benedictions of Peace, it makes the Calming Verse skill instant and gives the Rune-Keeper -10% threat from healing and +10% Rune-Keeper skill healing.

Rousing Words: This is one of our main healing skills, it is a channeled group heal for 6.5 seconds and it generates no threat. It has a 20 second cooldown.

Rune of Endurace: This trait under Benedictions of Peace gives you +30% more healing from Rousing Words if your rune-stone is out. It also increases the durability of your rune-stone so it can take a bit of a beating.

Wonderous Foreshadowing: This is a legendary trait that 5 Benedictions of Peace traits slotted before you can slot it as a legendary. It gives you +5% more healing for an X amount of duration, initially 30 seconds. I personally always have +30s duration to Glorious Foreshadowing on my healing rune-stones so my trait turns into a 1 minute duration with a 2 minute cooldown.

All Fates Entwined: A skill where you take +10% incoming damage from each member of your fellowship then, in turn, you resist 10% of the damage you are taking. With this skill toggled on your inductions can't get knocked back. Keep in mind though that this skill has a large power-per-second cost.

Writ of Health: A nice little Heal Over Time that can tier up to 3 when you use it 3 times on your target before it expires. You get +20% more healing per tier increase.

Writ of Well Being: A trait under Benedictions of Peace, it decreases the Writ of Health skill cooldown by 2 seconds making it a cool 3 second cooldown altogether. It also will cause the heal to tier down instead of dispelling altogether. Example: Writ of Health tier 3 will go to Writ of Health tier 2 upon expiration with this trait equipped. Without this trait equipped, Writ of Health (regardless of tier) will expire altogether on the target.

Prelude to Hope: A small Heal Over Time that is an instant cast so it can be done while on the run. You get +2% more healing from this skill whenever you increase your healing attunement.

Mending Verse: What many would argue as being the Rune-Keeper's main healing skill, it is a large Heal Over Time that can stack around 5-6 individual Mending Verse heals on the target if constantly spammed. If traited, this skill additionally gives the target a +502 morale buff for 15 seconds and decreases the power cost per attunement.

Few things RK healers really need.

1. Incombat rez. Or simply 2 mins CD on the incombat rez if the buff didn´t proc (by the player´s death).

2. EftA needs to be changed. Should be casted only on a target with a WoH on it, should be casted on 2.5 secs and with a 10 seconds CD.

3. All Fates Entwined needs to be 6 attunement, not 9. It´s stupidly high and we have to use many skills that lower attunement.

With this, i´d be really happy.

Originally Posted by distillered

I think Rune-Keeper healing is perfect the way it is now and any additional buffs are, of course, welcome but not needed.

Now before the flames come, allow me to give myself a little credibility here: I have been a main healer in every initial clear my kinship has done for every raid since DN. This includes T2 Ivar CM where I was one of two healers (the other being a minstrel) when we took it down. We've been clearing it with this set up every week since.

You´re misguiding RK usefulness as healer with this game´s easyness.

I'll try and word this as best as I can, its easier doing than explaing for me but I do have to agree and say that runekeeper healing does not NEED to be changed, except maybe EFTA. Any changes would just create a new healing rotation. Runekeepers are balanced to their minstrel counterparts.In reply to some things posted in this thread:
Rk's don't need a 'quick heal on the move' like chord of salvation. That skill is usedwhentaking a lot of dmg. Runekeeper's can BUBBLE -50 % inc dmg. When I have a fellow about to die, I use Writ of health(.8s induction) then word of exaltation followed by a prelude; both of which have no induction. At this point I have a fellow taking -50% inc dmg, with 2 HoT's (not including rune of restoration). I follow this sequence with some mending verses until they are stabilized. This is the DIFFERENCE between minstrels and runekeepers. minstrels have chord of salvation, a quick heal that can be used on the move. Chord of salvation is instant, but there is a long animation. Skill now comes into play here, rk's just have to be able to now how to use their skills with correct timing, (with WoH having a .8s induction it doesnt take much for you to be on the move again, and bubble/prelude can be used on the move). Again I will try to explain but it is easier to experience it in game.. Minstrels heal differently in the fact that they react to dmg, where as runekeepers have to be more proactive. So maybe minstrels have chord of salvation, but rk's have skills that are equivalent, you just figure out how to use them; which just take practice.
Just how it may seem like runekeepers are weak in this area, that they have to be more proactive and it takes more skill to use rk's to equivalate to a minis chord of salvation, take the other example of both classes BIG heals..
Minstrels have fellowships heart; a big heal/HoT that is an INDUCTION. Rk's best heal is Essay of exaltation, an INSTANT Vice versa; Rk's secondary big heal is That which does not kill us, an INDUCTION skill, whereas Triumphant spirit is INSTANT. Should minstrels get a big instant heal then? No, this is where the skill comes in for the mini, The minstrel has to time FH right with the induction because if they get knocked back/interrupted/stunned/feared/ during the induction, the group can wipe
As for the regular group heal (aoe for rks) comparison between rousing words and inspire fellows, They are again, equal but different skills. Inspire fellows gives the fellowship instant moral with -1% inc dmg. If rk's use rune of restoration and wonderous forshadowing the HoT rousing words becomes extremely powerful. The difference is between the HoT/instant morale and the -1%inc dmg/channeling skill.

For something that was also posted above, All fates entwined can be used with calming verse continualy. If you just pop a mending verse, then calming verse then a writ of health, you can keep all fates entwined up and ur attunement. So it is really not needed to make All Fates a 6 attunement skill in the respect of healing..

Overall, yes runekeeper healing takes a little more creativity to be completley efficient than minstrel healing, but it just takes practice. I hope they don't change the sequence of healing for runekeepers because I think it fine the way it is with the exception of EFTA, I honestly think they should just remove that skill and make it a dread removal skill. That way, the healing runekeeper becomes more easily defined as a HoT healer and also makes it balanced with a minstrel.

Before anyone else says rk's need healing changes, make sure you really know the class in the apsects of healing. Try using your skills in a new way if your not successful, that's how I learned. Hopefully this will clear some of the minis/rks are better healers debate..

I've never had anyone teach me how to 'heal' as a rk or mini, ive just tried to figure out the best skill rotations my self, and I believe I have been pretty successful. If I am missing something please post, i'm interested.

Note: Im just writing from what I have experienced from playing both a mini and a rk. If you don't agree please explain, rather than jab so that everyone can learn.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Amaterasu2

Few things RK healers really need.

1. Incombat rez. Or simply 2 mins CD on the incombat rez if the buff didn´t proc (by the player´s death).

2. EftA needs to be changed. Should be casted only on a target with a WoH on it, should be casted on 2.5 secs and with a 10 seconds CD.

3. All Fates Entwined needs to be 6 attunement, not 9. It´s stupidly high and we have to use many skills that lower attunement.

With this, i´d be really happy.

Agreed with this plus the post above, which is too long to quote. (The AFE change isn't necessary really, it's still awesomeness regardless; it'd just be nice not to have it knocked off if I have to pop DW or Self-Motivation or something.)

RK healing usefulness is perfectly fine as well; I've never thought to myself "Man, I sure wish I was a mini right now" while healing an instance - even if I need a bunch of group heals. That's what WoH + foreshadowing + Rousing Words are for. And I've never not been taken into a fellowship/raid that's asking for a healer in general specifically because I'm not a mini*.

But maybe that's just because I'm too rockin' not to take.

*Yes, sometimes groups ask for minis in particular, but I only ever see this happen for raids that already have a healing RK.

The main problem that I see with RK healing is when the group or even just the tank is taking large hits frequently -- as in Ivar and poison wing particularly, but even in Durchest.

Even with AFE, bubbles, WoH at 3, prelude on, mending verse stacked, if the tank gets hit with a bad crit, he is vulnerable until all those HoTs have a chance to chance to work which can be a while. Aside from using our big, long-cooldown heals, which are group oriented and can only be used once in the boss fight, the only other thing we can try is EftA...with it's 3.5-4 second induction, and a heal that is lower than Bolster's.

EftA is much more effective when you chain two or 3 in a row as the next induction is shortened after the first cast. I was doing Disease challenge last night and had trouble keeping up with spamming mending verses on a ward with 11k morale so after getting all the hots running, I would use 2-3 EftA in a row and it would let me catch up nicely.

Originally Posted by johnny11

Rk's don't need a 'quick heal on the move' like chord of salvation.

I agree here.

Just how it may seem like runekeepers are weak in this area, that they have to be more proactive and it takes more skill to use rk's to equivalate to a minis chord of salvation, take the other example of both classes BIG heals..
Minstrels have fellowships heart; a big heal/HoT that is an INDUCTION. Rk's best heal is Essay of exaltation, an INSTANT Vice versa; Rk's secondary big heal is That which does not kill us, an INDUCTION skill, whereas Triumphant spirit is INSTANT. Should minstrels get a big instant heal then? No, this is where the skill comes in for the mini, The minstrel has to time FH right with the induction because if they get knocked back/interrupted/stunned/feared/ during the induction, the group can wipe

Doesn't it make more sense to compare EoE to TS and TWDNKU to FH--instant to instant and induction to induction, skill to skill and legendary to legendary?

Anyway, I feel that RK emergency/cooldown heals are in a pretty good place. With minstrels having the FH cooldown reduced to 5 minutes, I'd like to see TWDNKU get a pass and perhaps a cooldown reduction as well, but it's not a huge deal either way.

As for the regular group heal (aoe for rks) comparison between rousing words and inspire fellows, They are again, equal but different skills. Inspire fellows gives the fellowship instant moral with -1% inc dmg. If rk's use rune of restoration and wonderous forshadowing the HoT rousing words becomes extremely powerful. The difference is between the HoT/instant morale and the -1%inc dmg/channeling skill.

The difference is also that RW has a much longer cooldown. And if interrupted, while it still heals some (unlike Inspire Fellows), it also goes on cooldown. In fights requiring sudden movement or involving knockbacks, RKs need a good deal more luck and skill than minstrels to output remotely comparable AoE healing.

When I say I want more AoE healing options for RKs, I'm not shooting for massive buffs with no downsides. I'd like to see an option to trait for more AoE, perhaps at the expense of single-target traits. I'd like to perhaps see a minor AoE heal/HoT attached to Wondrous Foreshadowing. Or I'd like to see EftA do something involving multiple targets, since our single-target healing is fine without it and it currently lacks a niche. I realize that RK healing is quite strong as is; but when looking at potential improvements, it makes sense to look at the area in which we are currently weakest. That's either burst healing (which isn't really our thing) or AoE healing.

Before anyone else says rk's need healing changes, make sure you really know the class in the apsects of healing. Try using your skills in a new way if your not successful, that's how I learned. Hopefully this will clear some of the minis/rks are better healers debate..

I don't claim to be an expert, but I've healed every fight in the game. I like to think I'm okay at it, and when they're looking at where to improve RKs I'd rather point to areas I've found to be slightly weak than say "RKs don't need any changes whatsoever because I've done X" or "because I feel minstrels have an advantage in Y, I must be a bad player." I'm not opposed to looking for new and better ways to heal, but I also don't mind giving feedback when the devs are looking for things to rework and buff.

/shrug

Originally Posted by revoked

The main problem that I see with RK healing is when the group or even just the tank is taking large hits frequently -- as in Ivar and poison wing particularly, but even in Durchest.

Even with AFE, bubbles, WoH at 3, prelude on, mending verse stacked, if the tank gets hit with a bad crit, he is vulnerable until all those HoTs have a chance to chance to work which can be a while.

What is hitting your tanks so hard? If the tank hits half health and doesn't seem to be getting enough heals, I check to see whether he's blowing his own cooldowns, and if not, I bubble him. It's rare that WoE doesn't give us enough space to stabilize through a series of big hits.

Well to be honest, it is more likely to happen when we are doing some a bit odd or unintentional, or there are just a series of mistakes. The captain ends up tanking Durchest, or we're using only one healer for poison with the tank shiedwalling someone, both of whom have their debuff at 10. Or the tank gets out of range of the healers gets a big hit or two and you are playing catchup. And maybe at the same time the tank ran out of range (wound wing) someone missed a renewer and the mammoths got buffed...

When everything is under control and everyone is doing their job correctly, it's not usually an issue...but when a series of things go wrong, it would be nice to have a burst heal.

Couldn't disagree more. I have just junked my minstrel for my rk, as it is 100% easier to heal challenging end game content on an rk, group or individual heals.

You need to play a Minstrel before you make such posts- IF is nothing but an expensive power sink, most Minstrels will still use Bolsters to top up after an aoe, for efficiency purposes. And if you like playing a class with bolster spam, great, if not RK still shines, you can roll hots over a group effortlessly, so elegant and efficient, no panic, no fuss...

You don't need a 'burst' heal- Chord is hardly a game saver, sure it is nice, especially in the moors, but again you got an rk healing the tank, there's no need, ie Balrog T2, rk heals to tanks makes things 1000% easier than relying on a Minstrel.

You also have unmatched damage reduction shields, a 'big' heal if you need it, you can stack heals and writs and have staggering incoming heals on your target/s, you can mitigate their damage onto yourself, and you have a Fele Heart with a 10m cooldown!

Poor thread and poorly imagined, and shows you do not know how bad us Minstrels have it trying to heal real content (not talking GS runs here boys).

Originally Posted by XSYS

Anyway, I feel that RK emergency/cooldown heals are in a pretty good place. With minstrels having the FH cooldown reduced to 5 minutes, I'd like to see TWDNKU get a pass and perhaps a cooldown reduction as well, but it's not a huge deal either way.

FH is going to test at 15 minutes, not 5.

I find healing on my RK infinitely more efficient at end-game. RKs are capable of healing as well as the minstrel on live, and depending on changes, they may actually rise above the minstrel at RoI given major baseline healing reductions to minstrels and not being able to buff as before while healing. It would depend whether those healing reductions hit RKs as well.

It almost baffles me that people think RKs need more help in the healing department. It's incredibly well-designed and a great complement to the minstrel at end-game.

I think Runekeepers are good capable of healing in a raid, sometimes even better than a ministrel.
So instead of taking 2 minnies in a raid I would prefer taking 1 minnie and 1 Rk in healing.

About the incombat res, I think Rk's have a nice one, while in the saruman raid, an Rk can get his incombat res on multiple targets starting from phase 3. With a legacy of decreased cooldown and maybe even 3 OD pieces equiped a Rk can put an incombat res 4 minute and 20s.

So if the dps is taking it slow or some people still need tactics for phase 4/5 a RK can have his in combat res on 3-5 people already, and don't forget, if someone falls of the tower, he's normally dead, because a cappy/minnie can't target him, BUT when a RK has his incombat res on the guy that falls down, the guy CAN revive!

about just healing Rk's are good capable of healing, although some people still believe they can't, for example when they heared ToO T1 6 manned, but with a RK as heals they think, how is that possible? but Imo the Rk is just as good in healing as a minnie, maybe it will require some skills, but I believe RK's can't really complain about their healing skills atm

Glohir - Look at the time date of this thread. Most of these concerns were posted before rk healing was revamped. It's a whole other can of worms now... I'd argue that rk's are generally considered equivalent healers for most situations now. Heck, I've heard of minis being turned down in favor of rks in RoF.

Originally Posted by dagneyandleo

Glohir - Look at the time date of this thread. Most of these concerns were posted before rk healing was revamped.

Yeah you are right, saw it after I posted my message, thanks for the reply

Originally Posted by Glohir

I think Runekeepers are good capable of healing in a raid, sometimes even better than a ministrel.
So instead of taking 2 minnies in a raid I would prefer taking 1 minnie and 1 Rk in healing.

About the incombat res, I think Rk's have a nice one, while in the saruman raid, an Rk can get his incombat res on multiple targets starting from phase 3. With a legacy of decreased cooldown and maybe even 3 OD pieces equiped a Rk can put an incombat res 4 minute and 20s.

So if the dps is taking it slow or some people still need tactics for phase 4/5 a RK can have his in combat res on 3-5 people already, and don't forget, if someone falls of the tower, he's normally dead, because a cappy/minnie can't target him, BUT when a RK has his incombat res on the guy that falls down, the guy CAN revive!

about just healing Rk's are good capable of healing, although some people still believe they can't, for example when they heared ToO T1 6 manned, but with a RK as heals they think, how is that possible? but Imo the Rk is just as good in healing as a minnie, maybe it will require some skills, but I believe RK's can't really complain about their healing skills atm

Isn´t this thread necromancy? Please start its own thread, i started reading this and got really puzzled.

Originally Posted by Amaterasu2

Few things RK healers really need.

1. Incombat rez. Or simply 2 mins CD on the incombat rez if the buff didn´t proc (by the player´s death).

2. EftA needs to be changed. Should be casted only on a target with a WoH on it, should be casted on 2.5 secs and with a 10 seconds CD.

3. All Fates Entwined needs to be 6 attunement, not 9. It´s stupidly high and we have to use many skills that lower attunement.

With this, i´d be really happy.

Thanks Nostradomus! (This individual posted this almost a year ago )

Originally Posted by Amaterasu2

Few things RK healers really need.

1. Incombat rez. Or simply 2 mins CD on the incombat rez if the buff didn´t proc (by the player´s death).

2. EftA needs to be changed. Should be casted only on a target with a WoH on it, should be casted on 2.5 secs and with a 10 seconds CD.

3. All Fates Entwined needs to be 6 attunement, not 9. It´s stupidly high and we have to use many skills that lower attunement.

With this, i´d be really happy.

Not sure where our Do Not Fall skill was at back then but I actually have it traited down to 5 minutes 20 seconds as of right now. I trait Prophetic Words (or whichever the blue skill is that lowers all cooldowns by 20%) and have the minor legacy for it slotted on my satchel maxed out.

Seems to shock people when I tell them I've had as many as 6-7 Do Not Falls going by the end of phase 5 of a long Saruman run. If you have two minis and two cappies then you pretty much have one in-combat rez for each person in the group. Almost. Last boss fight in Tier 2 Foundry I can normally manage to set that on two people. Only drawback I hate about that skill is that if the Rune Keeper goes down it doesn't work at all. I suppose if they allowed people to be rezzed even when the Rune Keeper is down then it would make that skill too over-powered which I can understand.

Honestly, I love Do Not Fall where it is now--wouldn't really want to change it at all. Maybe allow us to manage the skill down to 5 minutes even? I like even numbers/minutes/hours etc.

***Oh yeah, I secretly like the skill also because it makes me priority in the group when it comes to debating on who to rez in-combat when I hold the key to many other rezzes. Otherwise no one really cares about the Rune Keeper especially when it's not healing.

Back then, DNF had the same long cooldown, but you had to cast it right before the person died... If they didn't die in the next minute (I think? It's been a while.), you had wasted the cooldown and lost attunement needed to heal. Add to that if you by some miracle managed to predict it in time (I wasted far more than I was successful with), they came back with next to no health and power and no HoTs, well, you were generally better off not wasting your attunement and spamming Mending Verse in an attempt to get them back to full health. And then praying you had a cappy in group to rez them.

Originally Posted by dagneyandleo

Back then, DNF had the same long cooldown, but you had to cast it right before the person died... If they didn't die in the next minute (I think? It's been a while.), you had wasted the cooldown and lost attunement needed to heal. Add to that if you by some miracle managed to predict it in time (I wasted far more than I was successful with), they came back with next to no health and power and no HoTs, well, you were generally better off not wasting your attunement and spamming Mending Verse in an attempt to get them back to full health. And then praying you had a cappy in group to rez them.

Ahhh--I vaguely remember that! I never used mine--well I did a few times but could never predict when and who was the right person to drop it on. Saruman runs made me notice the skill again. So they've tweaked it to stay on while in combat. Well, I hope it doesn't ever go back!

Originally Posted by Ellery01

Thanks Nostradomus! (This individual posted this almost a year ago )

Hehe that was my old account (new one is Amaterasu3 , old sun goddess of Rokugan! )