If this explains it i sure am happy to see Turbine putting in effort in all the right places, like in forums I mean tbh ..who cares about few nasty bugs and unfinished content when you can now read so many more posts from 1 page!
*claps*
Rubbish, what they really need to concentrate on is a new hoirse with matching costume, exclusively available to the 5000 12 year olds who use the store!
Today was indeed a lovely day... To read a good book I guess
I am out soon if this continues. The imbalance is a bit too much to handle- especially when leading.- (or just running around for that matter) lots to say but I won't. No changes incoming anytime soon.
Keep it up and soon not only Dof is a pve zone
Moderate hugs for all*
Lalala*
Nerfy gives moderate hugs all around, singing: Lalala*
btw, give Bertro a rest, its not like he has powers to summon freeps by force. And he is way nicer than most of the people crying about him in creep OOC from dusk till dawn.
Now and then: R9 spdr R9 rvr R9 wrd R6LM R6 BA R5 BA R5 dfl R6 WL R 6 wrg R6 grd R6 hnt R7 cpt R6 mns
I understand Nerfy’s frustration with the action last night. One of the main problems with raiding as a creep at the moment is the absolute worthlessness of low rank, low Audacity creeps.
This is not a dig at the people playing those toons at all: the same criticism would be true of a rank 15, 5-year veteran if they rolled a new creep and joined a raid.
Basically, the Aud system has meant that a greenie creep is more of a hindrance than a help. Trying to heal them last night was absurd: the second you notice they’re being damaged, they’re dead. No time for heals, and (unless you bubble at over 50% morale) no time for a bubble either.
Any time a healer spends trying to keep them up is time where other, more useful members are dying, and the dps they do if you do keep them up is near pointless anyway.
I know it’s tough to take everything into consideration when you’re raiding, and that it isn’t always obvious what the make-up of an enemy raid is like, but I’d like to beg for some consideration of raid make-up from the opposition, at least during the evening raid action.
If you realise that you’re up against mostly greenies (like last night where Nerfy’s raid was 6 mid or high rankers and about 12 greenies), please don’t just take numbers into consideration when deciding a) how many people you need in your counter-raid, and b) where you’re going to fight (with NPCs or not, etc.).
It’s really tough on greenie creeps atm, and even tougher for the people who take the time to try and lead them in slaughter after slaughter.
__________________________
As Mythosi’s about again, I would fell my message had not struck the right tone if he didn’t at least make a post about how whiney it was, and how creeps should get some nuts and take their wipes like men/elves/skirt-wearing dwarfs .
Originally Posted by Lumbercamp
its not like he has powers to summon freeps by force.
I hear that in response to hunter QQ about their low 1v1 survivability, in RoR their fellowship summoning skill will become an instant, zero-induction, use-anywhere skill to allow them to summon up to 23 other freeps. Join me under west bridge if you wish to protest this outrageous change.
Summon under bridge sounds awsome, no more broken legs! I remember how back in 2007 we had a standard tactic for killing those invincible burglars: one warg baits and jumps, others wait under bridge to eat him without b/p/e.
As for greenies - must be pretty bad, probably has to do with big increase of numbers since Steam launch, but freeps currently have other problems, I daresay majority of them die tons of times just trying to get out of gy and back to action past the warg blockades and after that they usually group up. I have encountered much more wargs doing that than at any period since launch. Not that I personally don't like getting ganked and spanked, of course.
By the way, smaller ranked tribe groups fighting closely currently seem much more dangerous than big creep raids. For those who liked pvp grouped it might be a very good alternative.
Now and then: R9 spdr R9 rvr R9 wrd R6LM R6 BA R5 BA R5 dfl R6 WL R 6 wrg R6 grd R6 hnt R7 cpt R6 mns
smaller ranked tribe groups fighting closely currently seem much more dangerous than big creep raids. For those who liked pvp grouped it might be a very good alternative.
I've been in a few Invictus-based groups over the last couple of weeks that have done excellently, even against greater numbers of freeps. Unfortunately, those groups were only effective because every single member of them was at least rank 7 (with most rank 9+) and an experienced player.
It might sound harsh, but we often find that opening the raid up to greenies dramatically reduces the enjoyment for the more experienced players, so leading an open raid becomes like community service: a worthwhile and necessary task to help the community out, but no fun for those running the raid.
So yes, creeps can still be effective against freeps, but that doesn't help the greenies who don't have the ranks and experience to join the tribe groups you mentioned Thrar.
All I'm suggesting is that freep raids try to slightly moderate their tactics for whether they're facing 10 battle-hardened rank 9+ creeps, or 18 greenies lead by a couple of high rankers, because the former will be much tougher and more able to cope than the latter, despite the numbers difference.
____________________
I sympathise on the warg thing: I get annoyed when even 2 brgs pop out of stealth to gank me (if it happens too often), let alone if 5 or 6 appeared. Warg-packs used to be more acceptable than brg-packs when there was a big power difference, but now wargs are really tough solo, some creeps are still picking off soloers in packs, which seems like overkill to me.
Plus they steal all my traffic at the east ford! . I'll never get Dying Rage at this rate!
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion I've almost had enough too. Banging your head against a wall for so long starts affecting your mental health. It wasn't that good in the first place....
If it wasn't for people like Nerfy etc I'd have jacked it in long ago.
Greenies in the raid are a charge, and lately there are plenty of them around the Moors. I wish they rank and keep playing, but probably left because of the audacity system. Or even worst, they'll buy a warg.
About Bertro and zerg, every time a side is stronger, this side will zerg. Lot of times Betro keep half raid, because creeps have no numbers, but he can't do anything if other freeps follow him. And he always try to give you some battles with npcs in Lug or OC.
Look, I'm zerged by wargpacks everyday, and they never show any kind of mercy. And I remember Mirkwood times when map was always red and KA zerged freeps one time and another while they try to take TR. Now things have changed, and maybe it will change again with RoR. Even now, in the afternoons, freeps are zerged too.
Ranked creeps like Invictus group are a living proof that creeps are not so bad, but ranked creeps prefer to solo instead of grouping. Newbies are bad as hell, but questing they soon will be r7 and then, if creep population is still high, things will change.
Things are really bad for creeps now, I hope we can see some balance soon, but while I'll continue giving you plenty of infamy.
Tindalas is Laurelin's negative nancy. (Felathurin aka Brunt)
Freeps zerg creeps. Creeps zerg freeps. It has happened for 5 years and will continue to happen, you change the balance one way to the other it will still happen because of numbers. Creeps are as guilty of zerging as freeps.
Audacity has not helped, it is a poor addition to the game. Anyone new to the moors gets mauled and that will only discourage them from remaining there.
To be fair to Bert he has always tried to fight fair e.g. minimizing the size the the raid. But as the previous post said, he can not stop people following his raid.
I also understand Nerfy's frustration...he was not the only one leading last night , Grolmog is quite right in what he says in that high rank groups have a much better chance of holding it together longer then a mix mash of greenies and a few R8+.......However when it's pretty clear that the fight is going unwell for creeps and leaders are screaming out in OOC for healers I think that the small groups containing R9 + WL's could help out more and join the main raids to offer their group heals. I'm all for small groups etc but this area could be worked on abit.
As for the freeps, I don't really have a prob in the size of their numbers, I have more of an issue with the huge increase in Guards and Wards...where did you all spring up from , it's pretty dam hard for us to take down so many Tanks. Obviously we can't tell you what to play but i think the frustation comes from not being able to take these classes down without half a raid...where did all the hunters disapear to ???
The other thing I think is learning damage limitation, rolling OC 4 times in a row in less then an hour rather then trying a keep is just gonna make peeps log off....as was the case last night.
In time things as always will balance out, but as pointed out before a raid of creeps currently is no much for a raid of freeps, it will take months for the greenies to be of any use.
+ Rep to Sherina too, can't say more truth with less words.
Originally Posted by Palinkir
where did all the hunters disapear to ???
Don't know hunts but your RAT know how to find RKs...
But it's fine, creeps need someone to kill and get points, is so sad to see 6 or 7 creeps hitting the same target ans see how the freep just sprint and run. Creeps and freep need less escape skills/ self heals, so infamy and renown flow. RK hit hard, I know, but at least you can kill me easy with 2+ creeps and get some points.
And yes Pal, some mornings I log and go to TA to only find heavy armors and wardens, and I think Oh, "%$·, I'm the only easy target here.
You know PvP is bad when you can see a RK with 1600+ rating.
Maybe is time to log our creeps and try to help.
Last edited by TiNdA-LoS; Jun 22 2012 at 08:54 AM.
Tindalas is Laurelin's negative nancy. (Felathurin aka Brunt)
It might sound harsh, but we often find that opening the raid up to greenies dramatically reduces the enjoyment for the more experienced players, so leading an open raid becomes like community service: a worthwhile and necessary task to help the community out, but no fun for those running the raid.
Sad but true.
We have seen many high ranked creeps leave LOTRO because of this.
Originally Posted by Palinkir
However when it's pretty clear that the fight is going unwell for creeps and leaders are screaming out in OOC for healers I think that the small groups containing R9 + WL's could help out more and join the main raids to offer their group heals. I'm all for small groups etc but this area could be worked on abit.
Some people think our tribe is too elitist, because we do not invite low rank creeps to our groups or that some of us do not join the main raid. But as mentioned, small groups with R8+ creeps are the most viable way to have a balanced fight these days, and I daresay we are succesful in this approach. Invictus was founded to provide high ranked creeps an incentive to keep on playing - instead of giving up, we adapt by creating high ranked creep groups, and we will continue to do so in the near future. We are only strengthened in our approach by the high activity in our tribe, and the feedback we get from others.
Some of us, including myself, do join the main raid now and then. But from time to time we just want to roam around in a 6-12 man group to have fights where skills and not zerging capacities/numbers matter. We love LOTRO PvMP, despite its flaws, but only because we found a way to deal with it.
One may call us selfish, but imagine what happens if all high ranked creeps would give up PvMP due to balance issues?
"Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory." The Art of War by Sun Tzu
Connall of Dunland, Warlord of Frontline Freep PvP Alliance
Ranked creeps like Invictus group are a living proof that creeps are not so bad, but ranked creeps prefer to solo instead of grouping. Newbies are bad as hell, but questing they soon will be r7 and then, if creep population is still high, things will change.
Give me an example of another PvP kin/tribe like Invictus. If there was a such group freepside, we would be in trouble. Freeps utility is just so much higher than creeps. There's no way to tell wether high ranked creeps are balanced, freeps are just used to slaughtering low ranks.
I dislike joining raids because raids often turn into zergs, I dislike zergs. Creep leaders often justify it with 'eye for an eye' and I'm simply not interested.
But I do help any PUG raids, if the leader seeks help against a larger freep raid. Just give me or the groupleader a shout, I'm sure we'd be pleased to help you. I never knew we were regarded by some as selfish, just shows how much I know...
[EN-RP] Laurelin Surgite atque resurgite dum agni leones fient.
Joylil, Mistress of Riders of the Riddermark - www.theriddermark.org
War-Lord of Frontline PvP Alliance
Leader of Laurelin Rising Sun PvMP Event Alliance
Give me an example of another PvP kin/tribe like Invictus. If there was a such group freepside, we would be in trouble. Freeps utility is just so much higher than creeps. There's no way to tell wether high ranked creeps are balanced, freeps are just used to slaughtering low ranks.
I dislike joining raids because raids often turn into zergs, I dislike zergs. Creep leaders often justify it with 'eye for an eye' and I'm simply not interested.
But I do help any PUG raids, if the leader seeks help against a larger freep raid. Just give me or the groupleader a shout, I'm sure we'd be pleased to help you. I never knew we were regarded by some as selfish, just shows how much I know...
No, you are right, freep synergies are much better, and a well balanced freep 6 man can beat any 6 creeps, but my point was that ranked creeps are similar in power to some freep classes, except maybe champs and minstrels.
Of course I don't want to call you selfish, or say you how to play, the Moors are a place to have fun and people must play the way they like.
And I like the way Invictus do it.
Tindalas is Laurelin's negative nancy. (Felathurin aka Brunt)
Give me an example of another PvP kin/tribe like Invictus. If there was a such group freepside, we would be in trouble. Freeps utility is just so much higher than creeps. There's no way to tell wether high ranked creeps are balanced, freeps are just used to slaughtering low ranks.
I dislike joining raids because raids often turn into zergs, I dislike zergs. Creep leaders often justify it with 'eye for an eye' and I'm simply not interested.
Yeah thats the difference. My tribe's raids are welcome to any level, and always will be. We could limit it to higher ranks and probably have a much better success rate, and more people willing to join, but we just don't do it like that.
Yeah thats the difference. My tribe's raids are welcome to any level, and always will be. We could limit it to higher ranks and probably have a much better success rate, and more people willing to join, but we just don't do it like that.
Gz Bert, nice one.
We don't limit to high ranks, much as it might seem like it. We invite people we know to be skilled players, rank does not mean skill, although low ranks tend not to get invited since they don't play enough for us to assess their skill level. Your success rate is similar, if not the higher than ours, we fight the same fights as you do with 24, with up to 12.
I wonder how a 24 man invictus raid would go, that would be interesting to watch. Too bad we have about 15 members.
Gz rankers.
[EN-RP] Laurelin Surgite atque resurgite dum agni leones fient.
Congratulations Grazak, for reaching rank 11. We reached R10 in the same month, but you're way ahead of me now. So team up with me from now on so I can leech you properly
We don't limit to high ranks, much as it might seem like it. We invite people we know to be skilled players, rank does not mean skill, although low ranks tend not to get invited since they don't play enough for us to assess their skill level. Your success rate is similar, if not the higher than ours, we fight the same fights as you do with 24, with up to 12.
I wonder how a 24 man invictus raid would go, that would be interesting to watch. Too bad we have about 15 members.
Gz rankers.
YIK, Nerf and Doosh and a few others go with your raids quite often, please don't take my comment as a criticism, it wasn't meant as such. If you fancy an Invictus led raid, just give one of us a shout. GZ Grazak...
Could this issue with a lot of low rank creeps without audacity yet - and not the same numbers of low rank freeps without audacicity, be a good sign? I mean, do creeps recruit more new players than freeps do???
Joylil, Mistress of Riders of the Riddermark - www.theriddermark.org
War-Lord of Frontline PvP Alliance
Leader of Laurelin Rising Sun PvMP Event Alliance
Could this issue with a lot of low rank creeps without audacity yet - and not the same numbers of low rank freeps without audacicity, be a good sign? I mean, do creeps recruit more new players than freeps do???
Nah, I guess those new players are new to LOTRO (e.g. due to the recent addition of LOTRO to Steam) and they want to check out PvP after just starting to play LOTRO. The do not have any high level freeps yet and the only thing they can try is a creep. What they see is squishyness to the max which will last at least until rank 7-8 when they have all their skills bought and when they finally have time to save some comms for audacity. I don't think that is beneficial for LOTRO PvP, especially not of those players compare it to PvP in other games. Most of them will give up in frustration after a few weeks, I think.
The introduction of comms has really screwed up things for new creeps. You will have earned enough comms around rank 4 to buy all your R1 skills and traits as a creep. I wonder why they did this? *winks to the LOTRO store*
Big thx to the Creeps that made me and Con welcome last night, and I have to say was sooooooo much harder healing creeps than it is on freepside, feel the pain for you guys now. Will try and balance my play a bit more and hopefully get to a high enough rank to become a bit more useful.
Gil/Tom/Arp
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Tom/Gil/Arp - Shield Brothers
Gilanakh/Gilarllug - Memento Mori
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Originally Posted by Morgatai
If this explains it i sure am happy to see Turbine putting in effort in all the right places, like in forums
I mean tbh ..who cares about few nasty bugs and unfinished content when you can now read so many more posts from 1 page! 
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