Thread: Potency still sucks (DPS numbers)

Originally Posted by polishexpres

It allows you to use all of your javelin skills in your rotation which will end up being more than warden's triumph. You do not have to use it every rotation. Maybe every 2-3. BTW I do not think our dps is low. I do great dps.

It's great that you can use your javelins. Here's a bit of math though to clarify some things:
(at 650 mi/agi 7300 Melee Offense [yeah, i'm too cheap to use TP to unslot my old relics])

The average difference (excluding crits) in damage between AM and WT plus the DPS lost from 1 rotation of not doing WT is almost 1400. That's a lot of damage to lose from one rotation. The extra time you get from AM is negligible because our rotations are dictated by mastery CDs, not a set rotation of gambits.

But let's say you got to chuck in the three extra javelins with the extra time (since there are already four javelin throws in the rotation (2x2) I wrote down, this is the most you can do with the CDs available). That's still only 860ish damage.

But this can't happen in real life because AM takes times to build. Not only that, but it shares the same masteries as WT. It gets worse. If you use 1-32-1, it actually takes longer to throw AM out than it does WT. Your other option is to use 13-21, in which case you lose a precious onslaught 21 mastery.

This is why AM decreases our DPS. If you somehow found a way to do both AM and WT, just spend more time and do another WT, even though we all know that if you're building WT with a lot of individual builders, you're losing DPS.


BTW, on a side note, I know you didn't say this, but if you have time to throw four javs in a row, build a onslaught from scratch. You'll do more damage in the long run, especially if you have it buffed with sets and/or legs.

Now let me go edit the numbers on the OP.

Originally Posted by Harc

It's great that you can use your javelins. Here's a bit of math though to clarify some things:
(at 650 mi/agi 7300 Melee Offense [yeah, i'm too cheap to use TP to unslot my old relics])

The average difference (excluding crits) in damage between AM and WT plus the DPS lost from 1 rotation of not doing WT is almost 1400. That's a lot of damage to lose from one rotation. The extra time you get from AM is negligible because our rotations are dictated by mastery CDs, not a set rotation of gambits.

But let's say you got to chuck in the three extra javelins with the extra time (since there are already four javelin throws in the rotation (2x2) I wrote down, this is the most you can do with the CDs available). That's still only 860ish damage.

But this can't happen in real life because AM takes times to build. Not only that, but it shares the same masteries as WT. It gets worse. If you use 1-32-1, it actually takes longer to throw AM out than it does WT. Your other option is to use 13-21, in which case you lose a precious onslaught 21 mastery.

This is why AM decreases our DPS. If you somehow found a way to do both AM and WT, just spend more time and do another WT, even though we all know that if you're building WT with a lot of individual builders, you're losing DPS.


BTW, on a side note, I know you didn't say this, but if you have time to throw four javs in a row, build a onslaught from scratch. You'll do more damage in the long run, especially if you have it buffed with sets and/or legs.

Now let me go edit the numbers on the OP.

I have not parsed it yet. It feels better than what I used to do. I am going to try and get a parse for you guys even if I think its bad I'll still post it. I'll do a parse with using it and without. I never used to use it so I won't have troubles with a rotation for that.

Current DPS numbers from wardens solo before potency proposal (AM not used, but in my longer parses, if you have the legacy and will be in a 1 minute+ duration fight, it is a small benefit).

Token/Scroll used for Gwiberling, Scrolls and and +1 DP hope for Gwiber. These numbers were repeatable, though if I got a sting of B/P/E'ed attacks the numbers are lower.


GWIBERLING LVL 65



GWIBER LVL 66

Originally Posted by ofMiceandHobbits

Current DPS numbers from wardens solo before potency proposal (AM not used, but in my longer parses, if you have the legacy and will be in a 1 minute+ duration fight, it is a small benefit).

Token/Scroll used for Gwiberling, Scrolls and and +1 DP hope for Gwiber. These numbers were repeatable, though if I got a sting of B/P/E'ed attacks the numbers are lower.


GWIBERLING LVL 65



GWIBER LVL 66

Nice. I'm gonna try and get parses without buffs. See what I can do.

Originally Posted by ofMiceandHobbits

Current DPS numbers from wardens solo before potency proposal (AM not used, but in my longer parses, if you have the legacy and will be in a 1 minute+ duration fight, it is a small benefit).

Token/Scroll used for Gwiberling, Scrolls and and +1 DP hope for Gwiber. These numbers were repeatable, though if I got a sting of B/P/E'ed attacks the numbers are lower.


GWIBERLING LVL 65



GWIBER LVL 66

Those are great numbers, but that's solo'ing.

With that high of melee offense it wouldn't be sustainable for very long at all. I played around a bit with getting my melee offense that high and maxing out my ICPR as much as possible outside of that, and it was absolutely awful how quickly I ran out of power.

It is pretty sexy seeing ~550 dps for a fight though

Originally Posted by OrcSmiter

Those are great numbers, but that's solo'ing.

With that high of melee offense it wouldn't be sustainable for very long at all. I played around a bit with getting my melee offense that high and maxing out my ICPR as much as possible outside of that, and it was absolutely awful how quickly I ran out of power.

It is pretty sexy seeing ~550 dps for a fight though

I have ~1300 ICPR in Recklessness before food, you'd be surprised, its not that bad. You can keep it goin for a long time, believe it or not, with these new relics. Fully buffed in a group you can alleviate most all power problems with food and captain rally cry/IDOME/Tale of Heroism.

Honestly my burg is worse on power than my DPS warden is *runs and hides*

it does suck the last thing this class needs is yet another utility to use for it's abilities.

I still say revamp the usable legendary abilities to be all use abilities that use power instead of gambits. i expected after completing these deeds to have some emergency instant use abilities not new long drawn out gambits. There are times when one does need a single heal with a long cooldown or a single defense boost without the wasted time of having to use a 5 slot gambit dieing in the process. I agree the stances need major changes especially how much dps the recklessness stance increases. Who thought up the 5% anyways? thats like the 5% run speed you never see it working in the game it's barely noticable. Also, the dps in the spear tree needs a huge upgrade, it's supposed to be the dps tree, where's the dps? bleeds barely occur against sigs or elites or even bosses for that matter. Recklessness should be just that, reckless and cause the appropriate amount of damage. MMO communities are NOT jam packed with tank personalities.

secondly, The gambits are a fantastic idea but they need serious work, they DO need to be placed into a sequence of increasing dps for the fist and the spear gambits and ALL of the gambits that heal should be shield gambits. that would make the most sense. right now no one can play the class without a printed out sheet of gambits list taped to their monitor and no one can tell me that was the intent of making this class. seriously you DO need a rework of the gambit system to make it infinitely more organized. this is from the players point of view, logistically you don't want to make the tank or healing classes harder to play then the dps classes or you end up with an enormously imbalanced community. Just look at how hard it is to find healers for runs right now. It's a fact, change it to make it easier to be those two classes. And when in the shield tree, increase the resistance reduction of goad please since this is pretty much the only way to gather instant hate from mobs in an aoe. thanks.

Lastly, if anyone needs a change its the RK, right now when you trait into a dps tree you do not lose any healing ability. This is completely wrong, if you want RK's to not be so OP anymore then you need to make a reduction in healing at the beginning of the trees for fire and storm.