Thread: Potency still sucks (DPS numbers)

Edit: Updated with new numbers: At 650 mi/agi, 7300 melee offense (again, sorry guys, I won't reslot the new settings until the unslot relic scrolls goes on sale)

Here are a few quick calculations before I go to sleep. This is a continuation of the other post I made on potency if you want to know how I got the timing estimates. Skip forward to the red if you don't care for the details.

Our current highest damage (in numbers) rotation (no crits calculated, don't have time, maybe will add it later):
1-32-13 WT
1-23-12 US
1-2-31 MB
1-21 Onslaught
1-2-3 PA
two javs

A possible new rotation for Battle Memory:
My Philosophy:
1. WT, being our very best DPS gambit (if built through masteries), needs to be used every time masteries are up.
2. Orion never answered my question about bleed overrides. I'm just going to assume it does better damage-wise to let the bleeds tick before overriding them (as he changed potency to allow that) like the hunter bleed, captain bleeds. Thus bleeds should tick as long as possible without going out or hurt the mastery rotation times.

1-1 DS (slow)
1-32-13 WT
1-23 PA
1-21 Onslaught
Battle Memory WT
12-31 MB
jav toss, 1 other jav (13+)
1-1 DS (slow)
1-32-13 WT
1-23 PA
1-21 Onslaught
BM-WT
12-31-2 US
jav toss, 1 other jav (14+)
1-1 DS (slow)
1-32-13 WT
1-23-1 MB (slow)
1-21 Onslaught
BM-WT
jav toss
12-31-2 US (14+)

Ignore the notes I made. Bottom line: This rotation might not even be possible. We might have to take out some javelins here and there to make the rotation fit in the allotted time.

Comparison (DPS for three rotations):
First Rotation
3 WT
3 US
3 MB
3 PA
3 Onslaught
6 javs
15 QT
6 SB
3 Taunts
DPS: 410

Second Rotation
6 WT
2 PA
2 MB
2 US
3 Onslaught
3 Deft Strikes
5 javs
16 QT
2 SB
DPS: 440

Important notes:

• The potency rotation might be hard to fit in the allotted time. If anything, the numbers I used should give a slight buff to the potency rotation.

• Crit was not calculated. This may help the 2nd rotation as WT tends to have large crits.

• Spear Bleed procs were not included

• Mob BPE + Mitigations were not included for obvious reasons

Problems

• Deft strike is one of the worst gambits to build because of repeating gambit builders. The gambit builders are on a 1 second cooldown and are much slower than building variating gambits
• For the same reason as above, building MB 1-23-1 is very slow and inefficient (but that has nothing to do with potency)

Conclusion
1. Potency is still rather meh... It does improve us, but by very little and at the cost of a lot of health. (This might have been intentional to allow us DbD use, but sorry, we won't last anywhere near 10 rotations of this even if the healer doesn't heal us and we have no icmr. So I seriously doubt Orion meant this to be our power solver)
2. Potency looks to be more of a utility skill than a rotation skill (save up that interrupt!)
3. The new rotation (if you decide to use it) will really be memory intensive. (Trying to figure out which bleed is still active [to override])
3.5 I'm still tired.
4. When champions received another Main Role, I fully expected to be compensated. After all, they encroached upon our territory. Are we going to get a real secondary role?

Also, this isn't a "What are the devs thinking?" post. I'm just trying to let the community know where potency stands in a dps rotation. Although we do have other wants...

Originally Posted by Harc

2. Potency looks to be more of a utility skill than a rotation skill (save up that interrupt!)

I think that this is the most important point.

Originally Posted by geoboy

I think that this is the most important point.

Which is not a bad point. We aren't a DPS class, there is nothing wrong with adding utility to our class. Sure it might help DPS Warden's a little bit, less then we would like, but we also have to factor in the new Bleed Changes proposed as well as the availability of new weapons and relics.

Potency does seem like a utility skill and I think this is a good idea, though only if the gambit until next use instead of end of combat. This to me is a godsend for firing off our best gambit(s), at the beginning of a fight.

I rally behind this change and the added crit defense. All the other changes are extremely meh, maybe the bleed change will work to some benefit but that remains to be seen.

Wardens really DO need a boost to DPS, but this isn't going to be it. DS is just like AM...

Orion, are you going to look at Adroit Maneuver and fix it?

Really it doesn't add anything, just moves it around so that you can use a skill in a reactive manner.

DPS problems* and aggro swapping remain on the table as 2 points not addressed in this update so far.

*DPS as in DPS as primary role problems. I have no issues with Warden's solo / short fight DPS.

Originally Posted by Harc

4. When champions received another Main Role, I fully expected to be compensated. After all, they encroached upon our territory. Are we going to get a real secondary role?

Not only this, but Orion now says that wardens tanking in spear is a no-no and that we shouldn't be able to do that.... Give me a break. I've said this too many times already...Why, when we are a tanking class and our PRIMARY role is somewhat broken, are champs being given the ability to tank when their primary role as DPS is perfectly fine?

Originally Posted by geoboy

Really it doesn't add anything, just moves it around so that you can use a skill in a reactive manner.

DPS problems* and aggro swapping remain on the table as 2 points not addressed in this update so far.

*DPS as in DPS as primary role problems. I have no issues with Warden's solo / short fight DPS.

1. You said exactly what it does add, a reactive element, something wardens really lack.

2. Basically those two topics have been completely ignored, especially the aggro swapping issue being that the vast majority of us are on board for that change and state so in good number. The level of back and forth communication seems very low here when you look at the champ update threads. I was hoping for the same here but it doesn't at all seem that way.

3. I'm not sure what you mean here. You think wardens secondary role is to come and clear trash mobs?

Originally Posted by horus418

1. You said exactly what it does add, a reactive element, something wardens really lack.

What i meant was that it doesn't add DPS, more heals etc.

Originally Posted by horus418

2. Basically those two topics have been completely ignored, especially the aggro swapping issue being that the vast majority of us are on board for that change and state so in good number. The level of back and forth communication seems very low here when you look at the champ update threads. I was hoping for the same here but it doesn't at all seem that way.

Honestly I'm a little disappointed by it.

Originally Posted by horus418

3. I'm not sure what you mean here. You think wardens secondary role is to come and clear trash mobs?

What I'm saying I suppose is that
a) I don't care about my secondary role. I have alts for that
b) If wardens got a secondary role as DPS, I'd like to see it perhaps be a group oriented buff, rather than straight DPS increase. Since this update is not intended as an overhaul, that kind of change isn't on the radar.

Originally Posted by geoboy

What I'm saying I suppose is that
a) I don't care about my secondary role. I have alts for that
b) If wardens got a secondary role as DPS, I'd like to see it perhaps be a group oriented buff, rather than straight DPS increase. Since this update is not intended as an overhaul, that kind of change isn't on the radar.

That is fine for you, you don't have to DPS on your warden, just like champs that don't want to tank don't have to... just because you and other wardens are happy with a single role doesn't mean that others don't deserve one, especially when every single other class has a second role.

Because there is no overhaul to be done, DPS is the only logical choice right now.

As it stands now, no secondary role and weaker at primary role, soon to be third on the sturdiness scale by the looks of things.... Say what?

I'm still not seeing the problem Potency will solve. It does add a reactive element but only for skills the warden can already use. You can have boot queued up, but it is so fast to build that it doesn't seem that important to me - Wardens are already great interruptors. You can queue up Mighty Blow, but there is plenty of time to build the gambit before the DoT expires anyway. You can queue up Conviction, but, once again, there is plenty of time to build the gambit before the HoT expires.

Potency seems like a nice toy, but I don't think that it solves anything that the Wardens have been asking for.

Perhaps if it saves animation time, it could be helpful in certain cases. If it saves the animation time on DC, it might be useful for that, but it is going to be hard to trait DC now anyway.

Am I missing something obvious?

Originally Posted by horus418

That is fine for you, you don't have to DPS on your warden, just like champs that don't want to tank don't have to... just because you and other wardens are happy with a single role doesn't mean that others don't deserve one, especially when every single other class has a second role.

Because there is no overhaul to be done, DPS is the only logical choice right now.

As it stands now, no secondary role and weaker at primary role, soon to be third on the sturdiness scale by the looks of things.... Say what?

This.
I have plenty of other alts too, but I dont like playing them NEARLY as much.

Originally Posted by Jeger_Wulf

Am I missing something obvious?

No, you said it, it's a nice toy. It's cool to have but sure doesn't help us with the real problems that we are all so aware of.

Originally Posted by Jeger_Wulf

I'm still not seeing the problem Potency will solve.

Nor am I. I can see how we can get some utility out of it, but I don't see it addressing anything I perceive as a lack or flaw in the class. Instead, it simply adds more layers of complexity to the most complex class in game, with little reward. I think the net effect will be harmful in that it'll overwhelm new and less skilled Wardens, while doing very little to benefit skilled Wardens.

I think they are adding some new mechanic for pretty much every class, and this seems to be ours. You all are correct that it doesn't really address the core problems of the class. Which is what's so frustrating about this whole endeavour.

Wardens: I need boots.
Devs: Check out this awesome hat we made you.
Wardens: That's a mighty nice hat, but my feet are blistered.
Devs: Ok, we'll throw in a scarf. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by Aloro

Nor am I. I can see how we can get some utility out of it, but I don't see it addressing anything I perceive as a lack or flaw in the class. Instead, it simply adds more layers of complexity to the most complex class in game, with little reward. I think the net effect will be harmful in that it'll overwhelm new and less skilled Wardens, while doing very little to benefit skilled Wardens.

Agreed. I just finished getting my masteries at 59 (yes, I procrastinated a bit) and feel quite overwhelmed already. More complexity isn't needed for our class, especially when the benefits of potency are so underwhelming. JUST FIX THE PROBLEMS WE ALREADY HAVE.

Edit:

Originally Posted by geoboy

I think they are adding some new mechanic for pretty much every class, and this seems to be ours. You all are correct that it doesn't really address the core problems of the class. Which is what's so frustrating about this whole endeavour.

Wardens: I need boots.
Devs: Check out this awesome hat we made you.
Wardens: That's a mighty nice hat, but my feet are blistered.
Devs: Ok, we'll throw in a scarf. Enjoy!

rofl.

Originally Posted by horus418

Orion, are you going to look at Adroit Maneuver and fix it?

Adriot Manuever does not suck if you have a 30 second duration. It has some great uses, this isn't the problem

Originally Posted by Zydrassyl

Adriot Manuever does not suck if you have a 30 second duration. It has some great uses, this isn't the problem

What use does it have other than lowering DPS and higher power consumption? AM has been tested, even with the 30 second duration...

Originally Posted by horus418

What use does it have other than lowering DPS and higher power consumption? AM has been tested, even with the 30 second duration...

In a longer fight it would increase your dps. -20% attack duration is huge. If you have a nice lm its a very nice thing to have up. My rotation puts all my javelin skills on cooldown as well as my masteries. There are no waiting periods in my rotation. I would not be able to do this without Adroit.

Originally Posted by horus418

What use does it have other than lowering DPS and higher power consumption? AM has been tested, even with the 30 second duration...

Aye, I wouldn't call AM broken, but it does need some love. Let it grant +5% damage in addition to what it does now or significantly increase the duration of the effect, right now its so weak that having to cycle it through our rotations doesn't help at all and arguably hurts us.


I still think Potency has potential in that it could introduce new reactive nature gambits to us that must be built proactively but only activate under certain conditions. For example:

* An anti-stun gambit that becomes usable while we are stunned.

* A defensive buff that activates after we receive a critical hit and then grants us increased crit defense and BPE.

* An offensive gambit that hits hard and is only usable after we land a critical hit.

* A 10% threat leech usable only on fellowship members who are higher on the aggro list then we are. (U mad Guards? )

As it is now Potency is helpful but still very "meh".

This is all currently existing mechanics within the game and would hopefully not require much new coding, but would just require borrowing existing mechanics from other classes. It would be a solution that would give us a general buff that I think, considering the current state of Guardians and the future state of Champions, we really need.

Originally Posted by polishexpres

In a longer fight it would increase your dps. -20% attack duration is huge. If you have a nice lm its a very nice thing to have up. My rotation puts all my javelin skills on cooldown as well as my masteries. There are no waiting periods in my rotation. I would not be able to do this without Adroit.

Like I said, it has been thoroughly tested and proven to lower DPS anytime you fire it off. It may look good on paper, but in practice you lose out. The only time it is of any worth DPS wise is when you start a fight with the buff active, but your last fight had lower DPS because you fired it off to begin with. Either way, the only time you aren't better off just adding that last builder for WT instead is if WT misses.

Originally Posted by Regero

Aye, I wouldn't call AM broken, but it does need some love. Let it grant +5% damage in addition to what it does now or significantly increase the duration of the effect, right now its so weak that having to cycle it through our rotations doesn't help at all and arguably hurts us.

If it doesn't work, then how isn't it broken? Just look at it at face value, it's Flurry that doesn't work.

Originally Posted by horus418

If it doesn't work, then how isn't it broken? Just look at it at face value, it's Flurry that doesn't work.

Because it DOES work, it grants +20% attack duration which can be helpful in very specific situations. When the last update came out and flurry was broken, flurry was literally broken.

AM needs to become more useful not be fixed, the two are different issues on different scales.

Originally Posted by Regero

Aye, I wouldn't call AM broken, but it does need some love. Let it grant +5% damage in addition to what it does now or significantly increase the duration of the effect, right now its so weak that having to cycle it through our rotations doesn't help at all and arguably hurts us.


I still think Potency has potential in that it could introduce new reactive nature gambits to us that must be built proactively but only activate under certain conditions. For example:

* An anti-stun gambit that becomes usable while we are stunned.

* A defensive buff that activates after we receive a critical hit and then grants us increased crit defense and BPE.

* An offensive gambit that hits hard and is only usable after we land a critical hit.

* A 10% threat leech usable only on fellowship members who are higher on the aggro list then we are. (U mad Guards? )

As it is now Potency is helpful but still very "meh".

This is all currently existing mechanics within the game and would hopefully not require much new coding, but would just require borrowing existing mechanics from other classes. It would be a solution that would give us a general buff that I think, considering the current state of Guardians and the future state of Champions, we really need.

I think those are great ideas.

Originally Posted by Regero

Because it DOES work, it grants +20% attack duration which can be helpful in very specific situations. When the last update came out and flurry was broken, flurry was literally broken.

AM needs to become more useful not be fixed, the two are different issues on different scales.

OK, follow me for a second now. When a champs uses Flurry, that champ's DPS in increased, it fires off quick and buffs for -20% attack duration. When a warden uses AM, that warden's DPS decreases, even though our attack speed is also buffed by -20% attack duration.

Explain exactly how lowering our already low DPS is useful please. Explain exactly what is "helpful", about using this skill.

Thanks for running through some numbers for us Harc. In general I agree: I love potency as a new mechanic, especially if the gambits are memorized across fights. However, it does not solve any of our existing problems, from our lack of stun protection, to our lack of a secondary role (DPS or otherwise), to our lack of aggro control mechanics, to our lack of crit defenses, to the lack of many useful LI legacies, to the lack of real variety in our buffs and the amount of useless gambits we have (e.g. four skills that will increase block rating when most wardens are already near the block cap). Naming the list of problems virtually everyone agrees on is tiring and I hope these other, more significant issues with the warden class will soon be addressed and not ignored.

Originally Posted by geoboy

I think they are adding some new mechanic for pretty much every class, and this seems to be ours. You all are correct that it doesn't really address the core problems of the class. Which is what's so frustrating about this whole endeavour.

Wardens: I need boots.
Devs: Check out this awesome hat we made you.
Wardens: That's a mighty nice hat, but my feet are blistered.
Devs: Ok, we'll throw in a scarf. Enjoy!

Not that this is anything new. Look at Burgs' update. The main complaint was that MM was terrible. What did they get? Stances to buff QK and Gambler, and Safe Fall.

Originally Posted by horus418

OK, follow me for a second now. When a champs uses Flurry, that champ's DPS in increased, it fires off quick and buffs for -20% attack duration. When a warden uses AM, that warden's DPS decreases, even though our attack speed is also buffed by -20% attack duration.

Explain exactly how lowering our already low DPS is useful please. Explain exactly what is "helpful", about using this skill.

It allows you to use all of your javelin skills in your rotation which will end up being more than warden's triumph. You do not have to use it every rotation. Maybe every 2-3. BTW I do not think our dps is low. I do great dps.

Originally Posted by horus418

OK, follow me for a second now. When a champs uses Flurry, that champ's DPS in increased, it fires off quick and buffs for -20% attack duration. When a warden uses AM, that warden's DPS decreases, even though our attack speed is also buffed by -20% attack duration.

Explain exactly how lowering our already low DPS is useful please. Explain exactly what is "helpful", about using this skill.

This reminds me of a complaint in General awhile back when someone complained Light Armor was broken because a lot of it offered might and agility. AM, without the legacy maxed out, does not work for the purpose of increasing DPS, I agree. However its useful for shaking off Attack Duration Debbuffs and, despite the fact that it doesn't help in DPS because onslaught and WT are much better replacements, AM once fully upgraded is helpful for tanking in that I find it allows me to cycle in an additional taunt or HoT (or both) into my rotation.

AM is not broken, it just does not work as many may wish it to and is only useful under certain circumstances.

That being said, even its good sides are not very good. It does help, just not much.


The point is though: I agree with you and we are both just knit-picking about a skill no one really gives a heck about anyway, shall we end the derail and agree to disagree?

Originally Posted by polishexpres

It allows you to use all of your javelin skills in your rotation which will end up being more than warden's triumph. You do not have to use it every rotation. Maybe every 2-3. BTW I do not think our dps is low. I do great dps.

Post some parses of your great DPS please, I'd really like to see them.

I think our interpretations of 'great DPS' differ tremendously.

A skilled Overpower guard will destroy our DPS numbers. They have a tremendous advantage in AoE situations with that, but even single target they will do better.

I could be wrong, I'd love to see your numbers. Not what you say your numbers are, but screen shots of the CombatAnalysis.

Comparisons to random hunters and whatnot also don't qualify - a good hunter vs an average one is a 50% difference in DPS quite literally (if not more).

Originally Posted by polishexpres

It allows you to use all of your javelin skills in your rotation which will end up being more than warden's triumph. You do not have to use it every rotation. Maybe every 2-3. BTW I do not think our dps is low. I do great dps.

Parse it and get back to me. Maybe you do great DPS for a warden, I don't know... but if you put the time and effort in to lots of testing you should know that firing off javelins while in melee range will lower your DPS by quite a large margin. Saying that 5 skills does more DPS than 1 skill doesn't add a bit of weight to your argument btw. I feel I do great DPS for a warden also, but that great warden DPS is very low by other standards. I was OK with that until they decided burgs (who we used to be on par with), are now the ones that should be pulling aggro.

Originally Posted by Regero

This reminds me of a complaint in General awhile back when someone complained Light Armor was broken because a lot of it offered might and agility. AM, without the legacy maxed out, does not work for the purpose of increasing DPS, I agree. However its useful for shaking off Attack Duration Debbuffs and, despite the fact that it doesn't help in DPS because onslaught and WT are much better replacements, AM once fully upgraded is helpful for tanking in that I find it allows me to cycle in an additional taunt or HoT (or both) into my rotation.

I'm not sure how I see this having to do anything with the light armor argument... you still also aren't listening... even WITH the legacy AM does not increase DPS, any time you actually use the skill DPS is lower unless you are only standing there doing auto-attacks. You also aren't shaking off any attack debuffs... It is a spear gambit clearly designed to increase DPS, they just got the math wrong.

Looking at your power complaint, perhaps you shouldn't be adding anything additional to your rotation... Your last sentence reminds me of healers that over heal, there is no reason to fire off something when it's not really needed just because you can.

AM is not broken, it just does not work as many may wish it to and is only useful under certain circumstances.

That being said, even its good sides are not very good. It does help, just not much.

Like I said, it helps burn through power at a cost of lower DPS.

The point is though: I agree with you and we are both just knit-picking about a skill no one really gives a heck about anyway, shall we end the derail and agree to disagree?

Wait do we agree or disagree? We can't do both as you imply here. Yeah, more mind boggling...

Dude seriously, I'm trying to be nice and get the thread back on topic.

I say the skill helps a little in aspects of the class OTHER than dps, you say it hurts DPS, understood, mkay, got it.

The difference between using AM or not in a DPS rotation is less than 10% (according to parses mind you) The benefit of using it as I do, for tanking to cycle in an additional gambit, is very likely less than 10% though I can't parse threat.

It's a minor difference and one which neither one of us is going to change the others mind about: hence I say agree to disagree; you go your way and flame the skill, I'll go my way and say it needs help but has some minor utility.

Originally Posted by Regero

Dude seriously, I'm trying to be nice and get the thread back on topic.

I say the skill helps a little in aspects of the class OTHER than dps, you say it hurts DPS, understood, mkay, got it.

The difference between using AM or not in a DPS rotation is less than 10% (according to parses mind you) The benefit of using it as I do, for tanking to cycle in an additional gambit, is very likely less than 10% though I can't parse threat.

It's a minor difference and one which neither one of us is going to change the others mind about: hence I say agree to disagree; you go your way and flame the skill, I'll go my way and say it needs help but has some minor utility.

Dude chillaxe. How is saying something doesn't work = flame? I know what the parses are because I did a poohload of them...

I'm not trying to be mean to you or anybody at all but, it is this attitude that will have this class remain in the current limbo that it is in. Either AM needs a buff or it doesn't, which side of the fence are you on? People's minds have been changed about the skill, minor difference or not. Point is this is one minor difference, but one of many that make a big difference in the end. All this class needs is a few minor tweaks and it's set.

Originally Posted by Regero

Dude seriously, I'm trying to be nice and get the thread back on topic.

I say the skill helps a little in aspects of the class OTHER than dps, you say it hurts DPS, understood, mkay, got it.

The difference between using AM or not in a DPS rotation is less than 10% (according to parses mind you) The benefit of using it as I do, for tanking to cycle in an additional gambit, is very likely less than 10% though I can't parse threat.

It's a minor difference and one which neither one of us is going to change the others mind about: hence I say agree to disagree; you go your way and flame the skill, I'll go my way and say it needs help but has some minor utility.

Wait, but... if AM allows you to get off 1 more gambit, but AM is *itself* a gambit, aren't you at a net gain of 0 gambits? If you use 1 gambit to gain +1 gambit to your rotation, then you could delete AM and put in [threat/heal gambit] and be exactly where you started, only with more power.

Originally Posted by horus418

Dude chillaxe. How is saying something doesn't work = flame? I know what the parses are because I did a poohload of them...

I'm not trying to be mean to you or anybody at all but, it is this attitude that will have this class remain in the current limbo that it is in. Either AM needs a buff or it doesn't, which side of the fence are you on? People's minds have been changed about the skill, minor difference or not. Point is this is one minor difference, but one of many that make a big difference in the end. All this class needs is a few minor tweaks and it's set.

Lol as I've said three times now: I AGREE WITH YOU: Am needs a buff. I am just saying that, while it may not work well, it does have function. That's all, and that's why I am getting annoyed with this topic, we pretty much agree and have only a very slight difference of opinion.

Originally Posted by ANewMachine

Wait, but... if AM allows you to get off 1 more gambit, but AM is *itself* a gambit, aren't you at a net gain of 0 gambits? If you use 1 gambit to gain +1 gambit to your rotation, then you could delete AM and put in [threat/heal gambit] and be exactly where you started, only with more power.

True but what I like about having AM running is that it lets me react a bit more quickly to changes in the fight. It makes interrupting a little easier, makes it easier to stop what I'm doing and spam hots in panic mode, remove corruptions, etc.



Edit: though again, as I've said, this gambit in the rare instances it does help, only helps a little bit. Less than 10% to use my hypothetical numbers.

Originally Posted by Regero

Lol as I've said three times now: I AGREE WITH YOU: Am needs a buff. I am just saying that, while it may not work well, it does have function. That's all, and that's why I am getting annoyed with this topic, we pretty much agree and have only a very slight difference of opinion.

Good, now I know exactly what you want. I mean no offense but I often do not know what you and other wardens want for this class. We need to be succinct here, I honestly could not tell if you liked AM as is or not.

Originally Posted by horus418

Good, now I know exactly what you want. I mean no offense but I often do not know what you and other wardens want for this class. We need to be succinct here, I honestly could not tell if you liked AM as is or not.

Wardens are a versatile class. We are able to oppose changes we support.

Originally Posted by OrcSmiter

Post some parses of your great DPS please, I'd really like to see them.

I think our interpretations of 'great DPS' differ tremendously.

A skilled Overpower guard will destroy our DPS numbers. They have a tremendous advantage in AoE situations with that, but even single target they will do better.

I could be wrong, I'd love to see your numbers. Not what you say your numbers are, but screen shots of the CombatAnalysis.

Comparisons to random hunters and whatnot also don't qualify - a good hunter vs an average one is a 50% difference in DPS quite literally (if not more).

Damn your gonna make me work? I should charge gold. I'll send you a message inbox so I do not forget. I am currently leveling an alt but I'll try and test this out for you some time in the next week. Whoever wanted to see the parse I'll message them inbox so I do not forget.

Originally Posted by geoboy

Wardens: I need boots.
Devs: Check out this awesome hat we made you.
Wardens: That's a mighty nice hat, but my feet are blistered.
Devs: Ok, we'll throw in a scarf. Enjoy!

This is a pretty succinct description of every class update ever, I suspect.

-The Gneech, who plays a hobbit so he'll never need boots

Originally Posted by thegneech

This is a pretty succinct description of every class update ever, I suspect.

-The Gneech, who plays a hobbit so he'll never need boots

Hobbits are OP, nerf hobbits!

Only one way to go from here, fellas...














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