Thread: Champion Proposal: Final Thoughts

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Final thoughts for the immediate future. I will continue to monitor threads and assess feedback, but this is how the first stage of updates is likely to pan out.

- So Ferocious Strikes will now improve an existing skill instead of adding a new one, yes? What happens to the legacy?
- What happens to the Ebbing and Rising Ire legacies?
- Will there still be a Stalwart Blade trait that adds a Fervor pip on a Blade Wall hit, or will running Ardour be the only way that happens? If the trait is still there does that stack with being in Ardour?

Lots of things to chew on, those were just my initial questions. Glory tanking looks fun, especially for places that absolutely spam wounds/disarms. The changes to Fighting Dirty and Merciful also look interesting.

Thanks for summarizing what appears to be the final plans for the first testing phase of the class revisions. I for one think you've done a great job sharing your thoughts with community, bouncing ideas off of it, and revising your plans based on feedback. In the past, I've seen a lot of developers take the "my way or the highway" approach to class development, and I'm really pleased to see this is not the case here.

The one thing I will comment on has to do with the changes to the Ire skills. Honestly, I still don't get it. What is the goal with this change? If the goal is to discourage Fervor tanking, then there would need to be something more to discourage Champs from swapping stances mid-fight. Because swapping to Glory to use Rising then back to Fervor is no that big of a deal as it stands now. However, Rising Ire does still have it's uses when in a DPS role (i.e. not tanking), and I would hate to see this utility get reduced or eliminated with this change to the skill.

Merciful Strike - so it both consumes pips but also always returns 2-3 pips when in Fervour stance? And the morale gate stays at 50% when Bountiful Mercy is traited? Also, what's the new cooldown on this, 4.2 seconds?

Continuous Blood Rage - increasing the self-inflicted damage over time for the removal of the healing penalty sounds like a fair trade-off.

Seeking Blades - either the duration needs to be increased or the cooldown needs to be reduced significantly. Suggestion: make it a one-off buff like the current Fighting Dirty. 30s cooldown, 10s buff duration, makes your next single Remorseless Strike 100% crit.

Combat Acuity is inferior compared to the current Fighting Dirty. Loss of 30s duration until next AoE skill, much longer cooldown (4.2s -> 30s), and loss of pip generation are all not worth removing the 50% health gate (with Dirt Cheap trait). It only regains part of its previous utility in Deathstorm.

Improved Brutal Strikes (Ferocious Strikes still sounds better as a name) should retain the untraited skill's 4.2s cooldown.

Controlled Burn still sounds extremely lackluster, even with the 5% attack speed improvement and pip per kill. It loses much of its usefulness against single bosses and rare elites.

Thank you, Orion, for allowing us the chance to give feedback and for hearing and responding to our pleas/rants/demands/suggestions/comments/delusions.

I may not be completely sold on the changes to defeat events and Controlled Burn, but I'm excited to play the new (but not too new) and improved Champion.

First off, thank you for all the work you put into this and for listening to all our concerns and suggestions. I like what I see. Only thing is I did not see an explanation for this:

- Flurry will be untouched until it is traited. Ardent Flurry is removed, explained in traits.

Again just wanted to say thank you.

Please do not add a fervour cost onto sprint. I personally would like sprint to stay on the berserker trait line as well. I also do not like ferv cost on hamstring/bracing attack...for the record.

Everything looks pretty cool - Swift to Anger is definitely interesting, will be fun to put that into play.

I'm kinda sad there's only one defeat response skill left, but hopefully we'll get more post 65 as we climb through the expansion.

I'm glad Ferocious is getting turned into Improved Brutal, will be good for hotbar space.

Likewise, I'm glad to see Ebbing and Ire compacted, as it won't really affect gameplay much outside of swapping stances anyway, and we save more space (more skills for post-65, woot!). I do think that the trait At the Ready is a bit unbalanced, as it may be too powerful for Rising and while fair for Ebbing, the trait is in the wrong spot for DPSing. Just a little comment. I suppose it's better there than anywhere else, though. Time will tell. We may need to be burning pips on survivability a lot (seems the way you're leaning), which means fast Rises will help out a ton for aggro, so it may be just right.

One thing I think will need some serious look at is Fight On. I don't use that skill for Morale, I use it to blow stuff up before I get keel over - damage and power let me do that. Really don't like the damage being removed in favour of some additional Morale, but since you seemed to double back on your Dire Need stuff for Glory (or did I misunderstand?), maybe the intent is to add a bit more survivability in clinch moments. By "regeneration bits tweaked to match a % of the cooldown", I hope you mean duration of the penalty, not the magnitude of the penalty. That seriously needs to NOT be for the rest of combat. If I hit that skill and it happens to save me, I get penalized for it for the very reason it saved me (to stay in combat)? It's so backwards, please make sure that's a duration. If that entails the magnitude of the penalty, meaning it still lingers for the full combat duration (though lesser magnitude), it's still going to get some flak.

Regarding Heroics + Ardour... well, okay. I don't think it makes much sense, but okay. It weakens trash AND bosses, which I suppose is good, likewise with Fervour. I suppose I was hooking arms with Haakon and hoping for an AoE defense debuff, but as it is it'll work fine on trash and bosses both, which is important. I'll live, I suppose.

Oh, and Sudden Defense still feels weak. If I have 6500 and pop it with 5 Fervour, I gain an 1300 Morale Shield. On a 5m cooldown, that's... eh. I dunno. I guess we'll see it in action, maybe it won't be so bad. Warrior's Heart heals about that much (I know neo-SD is not a heal, but it's like a pretend heal). On that note, Adamant and Invincible give the magnitude they do now in the best case scenario, but since they're a shorter cooldown it may work out (especially if the duration stays the same, I'll gladly take neo-Ad/Inv!).

That's about it. I like everything else I see!

Thanks so much, Orion, for communicating with us and involving us with the germination process, even if it was only a few tweaks. Go forth and let the testing begin! Glad we could help lay the foundation, even if the rest is out of our hands. Peace, brother!

Originally Posted by RandallSnow

Merciful Strike - so it both consumes pips but also always returns 2-3 pips when in Fervour stance? And the morale gate stays at 50% when Bountiful Mercy is traited? Also, what's the new cooldown on this, 4.2 seconds?

Cooldown is untouched until you trait deep enough into berserker.

Originally Posted by RandallSnow

Seeking Blades - either the duration needs to be increased or the cooldown needs to be reduced significantly. Suggestion: make it a one-off buff like the current Fighting Dirty. 30s cooldown, 10s buff duration, makes your next single Remorseless Strike 100% crit.

Again, this is likely to get an upgrade beyond 65.

Originally Posted by RandallSnow

Combat Acuity is inferior compared to the current Fighting Dirty. Loss of 30s duration until next AoE skill, much longer cooldown (4.2s -> 30s), and loss of pip generation are all not worth removing the 50% health gate (with Dirt Cheap trait). It only regains part of its previous utility in Deathstorm.

I think you are missing something very important in the way you are reading the skill if you think that it is losing value.

Originally Posted by RandallSnow

Improved Brutal Strikes (Ferocious Strikes still sounds better as a name) should retain the untraited skill's 4.2s cooldown.

I did not say that it increased the duration of the cooldown, it keeps the brutal strikes cooldown.

Originally Posted by RandallSnow

Controlled Burn still sounds extremely lackluster, even with the 5% attack speed improvement and pip per kill. It loses much of its usefulness against single bosses and rare elites.

Potentially, and as I stated and will continue to state, everything is still subject to change.

Sprint: Remove fervour cost COMPLETELY

Fight on: keep the damage, keep the power, remove morale gate, remove the morale healed

Controlled Burn: Yeah nerf us some more

You just don't get it...those changes suck, and i've just listed the 3 i hate most.

Just so I understand, does controlled burn no longer turn off our stance? IE it is just a buff now?

Oh, question in addition to the couple I had above:

Are Legendary capstones being removed? Some wording seemed to imply that our only Legendaries are the four listed, and that simply going 5 deep in a trait line has all the bonuses from the capstone traits. If that's the case, traiting 5 deep in any trait line and still having the option to choose three Legendaries (at level 65, anyway) is gonna be amazing and sweet, and could really impact how some classes play (only for the better, I think).

I always thought capstones felt redundant, considering you needed 5 to get there anyway.

The proposed Combat Acuity provides a 10-second window of opportunity where all AoE/blade skills get a 25% boost, usable every 30 seconds. One thing to consider is that no strike skills used in that period get the damage bonus, and you still need them to build pips for your AoEs. The current Fighting Dirty provides a consistent 25% boost to your next AoE skill every 4.2 seconds, provided you can get an enemy down to half or quarter health in that time. I know I don't speak for everybody, but I've never had much trouble chopping down a normal enemy to the required morale amount in that span of time and benefiting from an AoE damage boost every 4.2 seconds - that you can opt to conserve and hold off on for 30 seconds, if you'd prefer to save it for a Raging Blade. In boss fights, it becomes even easier to use and a regular part of the rotation once you hit the morale gate.

Also, not seeing any info in the latest blog about the traited Flurry change. Is it the earlier-discussed Fervent Flurry, permanently activated Flurry in Fervour stance?

These changes look mostly good, nice work!

Long time lurker of the US forums here, but play on the EU servers.

Personally i can live with some of the changes proposed until there is some serious testing done and we see how it pans out, i'm not a fan of the sprint change for example, but we'll see.

Seeking blades, as said could do with a reduction in timer somehow imo - also how will this affect the old legacy for blocking blades ? (i still have it on a switch in weapon)

My main ugh is with controlled burn, thats a massive nerf as far i can see... i know you think its too powerful in its current form, but wow. In one fell swoop thats changed our best legendary class trait by far into one its going to be hard to find a spot for. The only saving grace on it imo is the pip for every enemy killed and that is obviously highly situational. You have also said we will need another legacy to get the cooldown down...... i agree with what others have said on this before, we shouldn't need to slot a legacy for a "legendary" class trait to make it a maybe to slot.

I can't really put into words properly how much i dislike that change, or sadly give any real constructive feedback... but to generally sum it up you've made a class defining ability into meh.

Controlled Burn = Buff to anything that you currently have.

Capstones are still there.

Combat Acuity has other tricks built into the class that will get the up time pretty consistent, just need to look at what you have for pieces that explain this and at some of the possibly improved skills.

I'm wondering what happens to the LI legacies for Sudden Defense and Ferocious Strikes? They may not be the most popular legacies but I think I have a couple LI's with SD parry & evade bonus and FS cooldown.

Originally Posted by Orion

Exchange of blows now generates 1 fervour pip when it procs - this can happen only once every 5 seconds.

Is this still included in the glory changes? It wasn't listed.

Yes, the pip gen on exchange will happen.

Swift to Anger (moves to Deadly Storm)? Why do I feel like that's going to mess up my Fervor Champ Berserker build? Looks like Ardour/Deadly Storm might be the way to go after the changes, IDN.

Does anybody actually play a Glory/Martial Champ tank? I ask because I've never seen one. Maybe it'll be more viable now.

It's great to see how much of the community feedback went into the changes. I'm not thrilled about everything, but I'm satisfied with all the changes except the Ire skills, even the new controlled burn and sprint changes are something we can adjust to.

Ire skills - it's not just a nerf to the champ, it's a nerf to the entire raid's ability to manage agro. The ability to Rise off healers and DPS classes and Ebb onto the tank will definitely be missed.

I mean, how are we supposed to bear-tank Durin's Bane without our Ire skills? I'm not sure if Burgs hitting traited Provoke from stealth will be enough.

Also, what happens to the 2 Ire legacies, are they being combined as well, are they being increased in potency due to the much longer base cooldown?

Looking better, but a few questions for clarification, and other comments.

Second Wind

Second Wind is no longer an on defeat skill, instead it has its cooldown reduced to 10 seconds and the new effect grants ~1% of the maximum power to the champ every second for 10 seconds. By comparison to the current version of the skill the champion will now be able to restore 30% of their total power without needing to kill to do this.

Total effect after 10s, restore 10% of your power. 10s cd. Is there some other condition to use this skill, or can we actually keep it up by hitting it every 10s? I ask this because I'm not sure where the 30% number in there came from, and I was wondering if it also could only be useable under 30% of max power or something.

Seeking Blades increases the critical chance of Relentless and Remorseless strikes for 10 seconds.

Rating? Percent? What approximate magnitude(50%, 10%, etc)?

Ebbing Ire and Rising Ire are merged into one skill - Ebbing Ire. In neutral, Ardour and Fervour stances, Ebbing Ire functions as it does now and has a coold0wn of 120 seconds and costs 4 fervour to activate. In Glory, the skill becomes Rising Ire, functioning as Rising Ire currently does, with a cooldown of 20 seconds and costing 2 fervour to activate.

Not a question, but I very much like returning to the old ire, and I can appreciate having them split into separate stances(although, as others said, holding aggro in fervour is more about dps and less about rising ire).

Adamant now consumes all fervour and reduces all incoming damage by 3% per point of fervour consumed.

Invincible acts as Adamant but increases the incoming damage reduction to ~5-6% per point consumed.

Are the durations and duration legacies remaining? Specifically, could we maintain these while in glory?

in Glory generates threat, in Ardour increases its critical chance, in Fervour increases its critical magnitude.

Does this mean in glory, additional threat on top of what is currently generated?

(I am voting this skill, “Most Likely to not make it through the gauntlet as is.”)

on a critical provides a shield against incoming damage equal to ~5-10% of the champion’s max morale.

I wouldn't mind being OP.

It will likely remove the damage buff

Why? I'm not aware of anyone that uses the skill for power. Everyone I know pops it for the damage buff, for dps races where you know it will be over before the icpr debuff hits you.

Controlled Burn will be changed to do the following: adds another 1 fervour every 5 seconds, adds +5% to melee damage, increases attack speed by 5%, provides a pip for each target killed and lasts for 30 seconds. (These all buff you, nothing is overwritten. Legacies will extend time.) Cooldown is 5 minutes.)

I like this somewhat, but the duration is disappointing. How much of a legacy do you expect? 30s?

Swift to Anger (moves to Deadly Storm from Berserker) Swift Strike generates additional Fervour on critical hits. When in Ardour, Swift Strike becomes Swift Blade targeting 3 targets in a 90 degree angle in front of the champion and Red Haze is turned on with ardour granting an addition fervour pip every 15 seconds and 1 on every enemy defeat.

I like it. Will this be similar to the BG champ set in pips on crits? If I use SS and crit on all three attacks, do I get four pips(1 pip for skill, 3 pips for 3 crits)?

Continuous Blood Rage considerations are as follows: remove the healing penalty and increase the self-inflicted damage as the damage output increases the ratio would likely end up at a ~2-2.5 to 1 ratio self-inflicted to bonus damage.

Does this mean you have +20% outgoing damage, but +40% incoming damage? Wording confuses me, not really sure what to think of it.

Overall, I am impressed by how well you listened to players.

I'm excited to see some test results. Thanks for all your time and patience Orion.

I'm confused. Why would you make sprint cost fervor? Its not really useful in combat, which is the only time you ever have fervor. I suppose it could be used to chase down fleeing enemies, but I thought thats why you gave us bows.

Its... its almost as if they think... (now I know this is going to sound crazy, but bear with me) they almost seem to think that a champion would use sprint to run away from combat! Lol! I know, crazy thought, huh? Silly devs. Champs don't use sprint to run away from combat, they use it to run towards combat!

Flurry will be untouched until it is traited. Ardent Flurry is removed, explained in traits.

So, Flurry and its trait is going to be as it is now..?

Originally Posted by Orion

In the place of the old abilities True Heroics gains the following: in Glory the champion taunts all targets in a 20 meter radius increases his threat against each target, he also receives a shield against incoming damage equal to ~15-20% of his max morale

Umm, this seems overpowered for a Champ tank. This seems to put Wardens third on the "oh ????" skill list; Guards get Pledge for +50% BPE, Champs will get >1000 morale damage mitigation every 5 minutes with True Heroics, and Wardens have ... nothing. Pair True Heroics in Glory with Invincible (~30% more damage mitigation) and Sudden Defense after using legacied Battle Frenzy for insta-fervour (another ~25% damage mit) and lolwut?? Add these extra details...

Originally Posted by Orion

Second Wind is no longer an on defeat skill, instead it has its cooldown reduced to 10 seconds and the new effect grants ~1% of the maximum power to the champ every second for 10 seconds. By comparison to the current version of the skill the champion will now be able to restore 30% of their total power without needing to kill to do this.

and

Originally Posted by Orion

Bracing Attack remains the same in all stances except for Glory. In Glory Stance, Bracing Attack has a reduced cooldown of 20 seconds.

and

Originally Posted by Orion

Glory no longer suffers a -15% damage penalty.

... and Glory Champ tanks will have good damage output, good survivability, self-heals, AND power regen. Power consumption especially is an issue for Wardens, and you force them to go below half-health to regen anything (very unwise when tanking!).

I hope the upcoming Warden class revision rectifies this disparity and also gives the class 3 viable trait lines like you are establishing for Champs.

I went back and reread all your blog posts, Orion, and I have one question.

What exactly will Agressive Exchange do?

The new list of changes is looking really sweet for 95%. Thank you for listening to the input of champion players.

Hopefully, you will reconsider on a pip cost for Sprint, unless we are going back to the days of a stance automaitcally generating a pip out of combat, its a gate that either requires us to start combat and hit something, or use battle frenzy to get that pip.

Thank you thank you, for leaving red haze as a defeat response!

A bit disappointed on the Ferocious strikes. I have it used it in a long while, and was really hoping to see it shine again.

Controlled burn as a buff. I like this idea. Hopefully it will be strong enough.

Still not convinced on the Ire changes, especially merging the skills. As a champion, I like having a useful toolbox of tricks, and it feels like my hammer and my wedge just got remade into a wedgie.

Overall though, seriously impressed and relieved at your work. Thank you once again for listening!

couple of quick questions:

are these changes scheduled for isen or a release before isen?

will the post 65 changes get the same treatment allowing us to help shape where our classes are headed?

Originally Posted by SoddenHaxor

I'm confused. Why would you make sprint cost fervor? Its not really useful in combat, which is the only time you ever have fervor.

Yikes! How do we even use Sprint out of combat if it costs fervor? Burn Battle Frenzy so we can Sprint for 8 seconds???

Originally Posted by Belaeren

Umm, this seems overpowered for a Champ tank. This seems to put Wardens third on the "oh ????" skill list; Guards get Pledge for +50% BPE, Champs will get >1000 morale damage mitigation every 5 minutes with True Heroics, and Wardens have ... nothing. Pair True Heroics in Glory with Invincible (~30% more damage mitigation) and Sudden Defense after using legacied Battle Frenzy for insta-fervour (another ~25% damage mit) and lolwut?? Add these extra details...



and



and



... and Glory Champ tanks will have good damage output, good survivability, self-heals, AND power regen. Power consumption especially is an issue for Wardens, and you force them to go below half-health to regen anything (very unwise when tanking!).

I hope the upcoming Warden class revision rectifies this disparity and also gives the class 3 viable trait lines like you are establishing for Champs.

Yeah Champions might actually be able to tank after this update.

I like where you went with controlled burn, but it seems kind of weak compared to cool burn or perfect imagery. How about making every death event extend it's duration by a small amount. I like your defeat event idea a lot. I think it gives the skill a distinctive champion flavor.

So is improved brutal strikes really going to cost 4 fervour? Right now, brutal strikes only costs 3 fervour. I can see the increased cost being reasonable if you get the morale shield, but if that doesn't make it through your predicted nerf, then I don't see anyone slotting this trait.

I can't help thinking that I'm just going to pop into ardour to activate deathstorm, then pop right back to fervour for an extra 20% damage.

Finally, after playing a champion for 4 years, I'm leveling a second champion, and the most painful aspect is the lack of clobber until level 32. I really think this should be moved much earlier. As it is now, you spend 32 levels learning to ignore those red and green induction rings around enemies feet. It's especially painful in skirmishes. These were developed recently and have a lot of inductions which are easy to deal with at max level, but there is nothing you can do about them from level 20-32.

Thanks for your interactions with the champ community. I still wish you would just delete ardour and move on, but I feel like the class is in good hands.

Sprint
My most common use for Sprint was to charge into combat... a state where I have zero Fervour. Now I will never be able to use Sprint as I am accustomed to, unless I burn Battle Frenzy. Ergo, Sprint becomes useless to me, unless I want to... what... RUN AWAY? Seriously?

What is the reasoning behind requiring the Fervour pip for Sprint? Help me understand.

Ires
I am a Fervour Champ (note: NOT a Fervour Tank! I do NOT tank!). I use Rising Ire a lot, in Fervour, when I am of course NOT tanking (because I hate tanking) to save my squishies. I am very, very protective of those wearing less armour than me, so I pull off their aggro as much as I can.... all while making sure the true tank has aggro. Now I will be unable to ever use Rising to assist the group. I'm glad I get to keep Ebbing, but I'll really miss the ability to help out the group, and not just myself.

Is there any way to keep both Ires, regardless of stance, and just tweak them per stance?

I'm disappointed to see the Sprint change going forward as proposed. 8s instead of 5s duration helps. Assuming the legacy can bump this up to at least 18s with an Athletic-traited 30-45s cooldown. The pip cost NEEDS to go. Out of combat we won't have fervour pips to use, so out of combat we can only use Sprint pending the availability of Fear Nothing or Battle Frenzy. Very bad for functionality. Also, a set 200% run speed seems just downright silly. I can't see myself sprinting through the moors at the speed of a charging reaver or sprinting warg -- we shouldn't be able to. Lower the Sprint speed to a set 150%. Either way, I think I'd still prefer if Sprint was left completely untouched.

Leaving Red Haze as the only defeat response is a good thing I think... Please know that not everyone sees defeat responses the way you do... Defeat responses are not just a captain thing, and they play a huge role in defining the champion class. Dropping Second Wind, Heroics, and BB from being tied to defeat responses opens the door for new (and hopefully better) defeat response skills in the future. And this is a good thing, imo, defeat responses have always been sort of lackluster in some areas.

Not happy to see SD being changed, as it is our only significant self avoidance buff. And I don't think this morale shield idea is going to work out. I like Adamant and SD scaling in power based on how many pips are consumed.

Instead of Ebbing Ire and Rising Ire merging into the same skill, just disable Ebbing in Glory and Rising in Fervour and Ardour. Simpler that way imo.

If Stalwart Blade stacks with the Ardour stance granting BW one free fervour pip, then AoE rotations will become much more efficient. I like.

- Love the increased incoming healing for traited Bracing.
- Love the decreased cooldown on Great Cleave/DS in Ardour. It's an underrated skill imo.
- Love the Swift to Anger trait.
- Love the BR and CBR changes. The -90% incoming healing was the chief reason why this stance was not doable. Removing this is good.

Everything else I like or am indifferent about.

Question -- Is there a reason you are removing every ability champions have of increasing their avoidance? Parry on Hedge is being dropped, BB is being changed, SD is being changed.

Question -- Tight Grip trait in Glory. Hedge already has a 15s duration with a 30s cd in Glory. Extending this to 20s duration and halving the cd to 15s would make this sort of like a Guardian's Ward for armor rating (and wound resist?) for champs. Is this correct/intended?

If you haven't already and can find the time, please take a look at my post in your proposal roundup thread that explains a little more in-depth what I think about some particular changes.

Overall GREAT WORK. These proposals look a lot better than the ones you originally posted. I'm excited to see where these changes lead.

Edit -- One more thing -- I'm concerned about the possibility that stance-dancing is going to be the optimal way of playing this class. Meaning - Hopping into Glory for a lower CD on Bracing, and lower CD on Hedge, and then switching back to the original stance. Hopping into Ardour for an AoE slow from Heroics in the moors, etc (By the way -- I love the True Heroics changes as well). Have you considered this at all?

Hey, look what I get for asking how much of our feedback is being considered....a blog full of feedback based changes/updates

I want to chime in on the Controlled Burn issue...

The way I always interperted the skill was that the Champion continued to throw himself into the fray with intensity, but focused more carefully on the battle at hand, allowing for swifter attacks, and defensive capabilities. But obviously, this could only last for a limited ammount of time, as it fatigued the Champion to be THAT focused on EVERYTHING around him. And it really did seem to be the best skill for a big boss fight, or taking down a rare-elite solo.
So here is my thought/suggestion:

What about instead of reducing the effectivness of the skill so much, there was a debuff penality when CB expired? Sorta like when RK's use Epic Conclusion and are battle-drained for a while. That could provide some balance, but still allow for one kickin' fight.

Just a thought. I'm back to excited about the upcoming changes.

I like True Heroics in Ardour! AoE slows.... :3

<3 Orion!

Originally Posted by Shaz

Sprint
My most common use for Sprint was to charge into combat... a state where I have zero Fervour. Now I will never be able to use Sprint as I am accustomed to, unless I burn Battle Frenzy. Ergo, Sprint becomes useless to me, unless I want to... what... RUN AWAY? Seriously?

What is the reasoning behind requiring the Fervour pip for Sprint? Help me understand.

I agree, the Fervor cost for Sprint is a strange addition. I can understand using Sprint in-combat if you are snared or if you are overwhelmed and need to make a quick getaway, but 9 times out of 10 I use Sprint to charge into combat, not during. It changes Sprint from an instant ability to a conditional one.

I hate to say this.. But i would like to keep the extra pip required for 2H skills. I use that Requires 4 but uses 3 quirk to make sure i always have a pip left for clobber.. Improved Brutal goes to 4 pips? thats gonna hurt my sequence.

I would say that heroics will be used alot more often now that it has the cool effecta nd the morale shield.

Any Chance of Getting Seeking blades to also apply to Brutal for us 2Hers?

Sudden defense sounds cool too..

No health gate on Acuity!!! WooHOOO

Kinda sad about fight on, The only reason i used it was for the 25% Melee buff to finish bosses and bad pulls. Sounds like a mishmash of Second wind and Bracing or Heroics or Dire need... Dotn really like the proposed Fight on.

Controlled burn sounds awsome. Love the pip on kills.

Swift strike an AOE in Ardour (with Swift to anger) .. Sheer Genius!

Man, im starting to get excited again.. ITs like Santa took all my old toys i dont play with anymore and put intel inside them all.



You said you would mention flurry in traits... But you dont..

Originally Posted by Yosoff

Ire skills - it's not just a nerf to the champ, it's a nerf to the entire raid's ability to manage agro. The ability to Rise off healers and DPS classes and Ebb onto the tank will definitely be missed.

Originally Posted by Shaz

Ires
I am a Fervour Champ (note: NOT a Fervour Tank! I do NOT tank!). I use Rising Ire a lot, in Fervour, when I am of course NOT tanking (because I hate tanking) to save my squishies. I am very, very protective of those wearing less armour than me, so I pull off their aggro as much as I can.... all while making sure the true tank has aggro. Now I will be unable to ever use Rising to assist the group. I'm glad I get to keep Ebbing, but I'll really miss the ability to help out the group, and not just myself.

Agreed with these, yet again. One of the reasons I liked the class was because it had multiple dimensions. This change removes one of those dimensions, and for absolutely zero mechanical gain.

Originally Posted by SoddenHaxor

I'm confused. Why would you make sprint cost fervor? Its not really useful in combat, which is the only time you ever have fervor. I suppose it could be used to chase down fleeing enemies, but I thought thats why you gave us bows.

I'll be honest here... the proposed Sprint will be very powerful in PvMP. If you drop the Fervour cost, it will almost certainly be OP.

Originally Posted by Hakon_Stormbrow

I hate to say this.. But i would like to keep the extra pip required for 2H skills. I use that Requires 4 but uses 3 quirk to make sure i always have a pip left for clobber.. Improved Brutal goes to 4 pips? thats gonna hurt my sequence.

This is honestly not that big of a deal. I swap weapons, and as I build pips with DW, I see Brutal available before I can use it with my 2H. At first it will be a little annoying. However, good Champions will keep track of their rotations, and quickly enough it becomes second nature to keep track of your pips either in your head or just keep a visual tab on what you have.