If you wanna reply to any of the post made, try mine, as I need to know how creeps can win.
Fist Bumps!
Ok, you asked. This is just my humble opinion, and based on my experience.
1. Get over the dying thing. Seriously, I wish I had a dollar for every death I have taken, and I bet I have not been out here anywhere near as long as you have! We died a lot when we first got here....still do. But they should be learning experiences (Well except when jumped by a warg pack. That was an easy lesson to learn on both sides!)
2. Dying is an inconvenience, but not much more. Yeah, you are gonna have to run back and lose some time and no, that is not particularly fun. But it does not cost anything.
3. Help each other out more. I have recently been playing both my Creeps a bit more, just quietly watching and getting a little bit of infamy and a ton of dp. I am utterly amazed at how much more cooperative Freeps are than Creeps! Seriously, it is mind boggling! A Freep logs on, puts an x up, and if there is a group even low 50s can get invites! Creeps tend to be very clannish and self-centered. Even when Freeps are a mixture of gold tagging and groups, they tend to help each other. I have gotten numerous buffs and rezs from folks who are not grouped with me, and I return the favor, frequently. In contrast I see Creeps (esp Wargs) who seem to feel that they are "owed" heals and help, but give no protection or help to the Defilers and WLs who help them.
Seriously. . .cooperate and graduate!
4. Focus less on personal rank/level/stars and more on team play. At the beginning of any given evening I see substantial numbers of Creeps on. But most of the Creeps are alone in a crowd. This gives Freeps the false impression that there are evenly matched groups, especially if we see a ranked Creep whom we know can lead. It usually takes a little while for us to figure out that most of you are running around like a Chinese Fire drill. Pretty soon the Creeps start to go to PvE one by one and the numbers dwindle. The unorganized singles even in large numbers can't compete with organized teamwork. When TDH dominates the Moors it is because of leadership and teamwork. Period.
5. For pity sake, be nicer to each other! I can get a bag of cats to stop hissing and clawing at each other easier than a Moors full of Creeps! People talk about how Freep GLFF is full of trolls; but Creeps tend to tear each other up a lot more proportional to the numbers in the game. My personal take is that you lose a LOT of potential players due to the perceived hostility to your own side. I know it is what keeps me from Creeping more. It is a good fast way to get dp, but that is about it.
5. As long as the majority of Creeps are focused on personal aggrandizement, manifested in stars, etc. And as long as you have large ungrouped numbers, you will be prey to smaller or equal numbers that are working as a team.
. . . . Arga,Nash and Khronus see how it is these days. Unless the creeps outnumber freeps. . . .creeps don't stand a chance unless there is a proper raid set up, with a decent mix of classes (and no, that doesn't mean all wargs) and even then, it will be rough on the creeps.
I absolutely agree. The days when you could farm the easy infamy off of noob Freeps are gone. Interestingly, so are most of the Creeps who farmed us.
Maybe all the high ranked creeps found a game with better more balanced pvp....*cough*Rift *cough*
Saying they all left because of the loss of easy infamy is just laughable and can't possibly be backed by any facts so why say it. Alot of them stopped coming out cause there were no freeps to be found. Maybe one or two around EC and that would be it. I know thats a big reason people like Shacklez stopped showing up. Trust me, if there were high freep numbers back then, they would have never left.
All this is neither here nor there considering nothing is likely to change through us discussing it. The game mechanics aren't going to change because of pvp... freeps get better as to make them better at pve. Pvp improvement in just an outgrowth of that, and at times, an unfortunate one at that if creeps aren't improved proportionally. Which they have not been for the last couple of updates.
Additionally, arguing against some of you is like stabbing your eyes with a hot railroad spike. Repeatedly.
Point is, creeps do okay for themselves when they have some experience to back them up. It's not necessarily equal, but it's better. A lot of the high ranked creeps have been gone lately, or haven't been grouping as much due to the massive influx of stupidity creepside from people who haven't even gotten their freep past lvl 20. Honestly, I don't blame them one bit. I haven't been grouping with anyone other than one or two other people freepside for similar reasons. But things aren't going to get better by complaining about it. As much as many of us (including myself) would rather go get our freeps ranked up, it would probably be more beneficial to pvp life if we asked occasionally in the glff before coming out which side needs more and base which side you go out on accordingly. Yeah, the glff is likely to have a slanted view, but much of the time, freeps are as depressed by dismal numbers and/or skill creepside as creeps are.
Long and short of it is, go roll a creep, even if you only log on when the numbers are horribly slanted. +10 renown for Zedred.
Cirq - r12 LM - Apex - Elendilmir
⌛ Cirone of Windfola ⌛
"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times."
Maybe all the high ranked creeps found a game with better more balanced pvp....*cough*Rift *cough*
Saying they all left because of the loss of easy infamy is just laughable and can't possibly be backed by any facts so why say it. Alot of them stopped coming out cause there were no freeps to be found. Maybe one or two around EC and that would be it. I know thats a big reason people like Shacklez stopped showing up. Trust me, if there were high freep numbers back then, they would have never left.
Uhhh no. Shack stopped coming because he fell in love in R/L. He was my kin lead in Fatality. The last time he logged on he was head over heels in love with his GF, said his farewells, and we have not seen him since. I wish him and his lady well.
As far as no Freeps to be found? Are we talking about Windfola? Seriously? Yeah, at 4AM it is pretty quiet, not too busy during the work/school day. Uhhh did you log on in the evenings, then or lately?
I absolutely agree. The days when you could farm the easy infamy off of noob Freeps are gone. Interestingly, so are most of the Creeps who farmed us.
Acor
Me?...personally? I don't think so somehow. I've been going out to the moors way before you started showing up. Your one-sided point of view is ridiculous.
Anyway, your credibility on the subject was shot to hell with that post you made a while back about how OP noob creeps were or something just as ridiculous....
Freeps - 6 x Lvl 65s, 1 x Lvl 15, 2 x Lvl 10
Creeps - 1 x BA, 3 x Wl, 4 x Wvr, 3 x Wargs, 3 x Def, 3 x Rvr
Given up.
Maybe all the high ranked creeps found a game with better more balanced pvp....*cough*Rift *cough*
Maybe. Or maybe they couldn't handle getting their egos handed to them in a handbasket by the same players and kins they had clowned and mocked just a few weeks prior. That had to be humiliating.
Uhh, I was in Fatality too. Not to mention we duo'd just about every time he was on. He would log on to little to no freeps and then leave. Yes, some of it was due to R/L, but the original reason he stopped coming out was the lack of action. That is a fact. He also said he plans on coming back after the update. I doubt it though.
Name me one high ranked creep that left because of the loss of so called "easy infamy".
Uhhh no. Shack stopped coming because he fell in love in R/L. He was my kin lead in Fatality. The last time he logged on he was head over heels in love with his GF, said his farewells, and we have not seen him since. I wish him and his lady well.
As far as no Freeps to be found? Are we talking about Windfola? Seriously? Yeah, at 4AM it is pretty quiet, not too busy during the work/school day. Uhhh did you log on in the evenings, then or lately?
Acor
for so long it was so boring. many ppl left the server or went to a new game. compared to other servers as well, windy is dead, plain and simple.
also mr abstishackles was bored long before his willy was getting wet, dont forget i was in that kin as well, miss that dude
Maybe. Or maybe they couldn't handle getting their egos handed to them in a handbasket by the same players and kins they had clowned and mocked just a few weeks prior. That had to be humiliating.
I'd just like to point out that its fairly easy for freeps to roll over a creep raid of a larger side. All you need it people to follow instructions, have a healer or3( the majority of freep classes can heal well, I know wardens that have solo healed SG), and bring some AoE classes and run into them.
It has never, nor will it ever be, difficult to freep IF people know what they are doing. I say that because when freeps were like ouch we are being rolled! I would sometimes come out on my champ with lesser numbers, lead ( in the same situation as previously being rolled) and absolutely stomp the creeps, same thing goes for creepside, I have done it on both.
This whole thing is silly. Freeps take more time investment to get to a godlike state, thats fine. Creeps take a long time to get to an ON PAR state with a normally geared freep. My view of normal might be a bit skewed because I lead a raiding kin BUT, for the intents of this thread its having non raid gear so, 4 vm pieces and 2 mirkwood pieces then 10s on traits and jewelry that is crafted or dropped from 3-6mans.
The solution is only slightly in the playerbases hands. To begin with people can choose to freep or creep. My kin frequently PvPs because we have ALOT of people that are high ranked on both sides and enjoy to PvP, also we need DP for OD and PvPing is a great way to do it. If one side is out-numbered we go on the otherside regardless of what I would like to play or what other people in the kin would like to play. Thats just our policy we go where the numbers are needed.
Turbine could implement class or population controls like a FPS, which is what I would be in favor of OR they could make keeps stronger when there is the outnumbered buff or make the outnumbered buff do something substantial, any number of ideas could be thrown out there for this
Also no one in here really should be talking about the difficulties of playing either side unless you played in SoA BEFORE raid point gain got fixed. That was some hard pvp, there was no insane dps, health pools, etc. All people had was coordination. If people focused you MIGHT win. That goes for both sides.
Both sides are doing the complaining, both sides have pros and cons to them and I have seen and made them work for the raids I have been in for both sides. I have also been in two of the top raiding tribes/kins when they were in their prime. For all you newer people, Viaticus was the PvP kin before there was any other PvP kin and VVV was the PvP tribe before there was other PvP tribes. In short, I have been pvping on this server for four and a half years with some of the best people(guilded and non guilder) that this server ever had to offer in terms of skill and dedication.
Also to you TDH peeps, I know its hard for you do to the repeated drama attacks, I was in your kin a loooong time ago and had to deal with the same stuff, im pretty sure every kin does but yours is the one that is currently dealing with it. Ach and Britt will just roflstomp people that complain about them as always, and people will just forget about the drama. Relax, feeding the trolls only makes them grow bigger and live longer. Also while I may not like how you guys do things some of the time in terms of PvP I do enjoy fighting against you as currently your one of the few organized forces I get to face and fighting against unorganized people reminds me too much of playing against an AI, thanks for making it interesting(if not at some times aggravating xP).
The point of all of this is simple. Relax, its a game. The PvP in this game is by no means perfect but it is imo special because otherwise why would you all, and myself, complain about it and then stick around.
As to where are all the veteran creeps are(rank is totally not a distinguisher IMO I see alot of r7 and r8's that are awful on both sides) They have transferred to Brandywine,E, Meneldor, or just quit the game as the PvP on those servers or in different games is just better from their point of view. That simple really.
Only thing I can suggest is play a creep or a freep, depending what side you argue for, don't tell anyone who you are and then try and see what its really like. Until you have an informed(and hopefully unbiased) opinion of both sides, you really shouldn't be talking about how one side does this and it makes you grab a box of tissues.
<3 to my Windfolians
~Noggy/Bloodbringer.
Last edited by elros9999; Apr 27 2011 at 05:29 PM.
acor is under the impression that the vet creeps left because they apparently talked too much trash, made ez infamy then when the freep raids started rollin the vets couldnt handle the humiliation and left. i dunno maybe he's referring to warpath, but the rest of us are talking about days long before them.
acor is under the impression that the vet creeps left because they apparently talked too much trash, made ez infamy then when the freep raids started rollin the vets couldnt handle the humiliation and left. i dunno maybe he's referring to warpath, but the rest of us are talking about days long before them.
That's why I want to know which creeps he's referring to. We are obviously talking about different times. Hell, I rarely saw Acor out there.
Anyway, your credibility on the subject was shot to hell with that post you made a while back about how OP noob creeps were or something just as ridiculous....
I would certainly love to see where I ever said a new Creep was OP. I did say I rolled one, and I had seen what they could do. Some folks deliberately misrepresented that as my saying it was OP. I said no such thing.
English is my first language, and I can read, write and speak it fairly well. I said exactly what I meant. As a result of rolling a noob Creep (BA in that particular case) I was convinced that they were not the squishies many Creeps represented them to be, even at higher levels.. This was reinforced by watching my kin/tribe leader on his BA. I witnessed him melting a lot of very experienced Freeps from all classes, including the so-called invincible burgs. He did this in spite of the overwhelming number of responses said that BAs were easy prey. After that the only credibility that I considered "shot" was the over all Creep community that put forth a rousing chorus of "Lo the poor BA!" Ach simply demonstrated to me that they did not have a clue how to play one.
Spare me the false inferences and just show me straight up where I said my BA was OP. Drop all the disingenuous "Well you really meant to say. . . " or "You implied. . . . " or "I know you really meant . . . " etc. If by now you have not figured out I say what I really mean to say in plain English you have not been paying attention. Or else you read into what I say what you want to hear so you can argue. Read for content, not rebuttal.
Ok, you asked. This is just my humble opinion, and based on my experience.
1. Get over the dying thing. Seriously, I wish I had a dollar for every death I have taken, and I bet I have not been out here anywhere near as long as you have! We died a lot when we first got here....still do. But they should be learning experiences (Well except when jumped by a warg pack. That was an easy lesson to learn on both sides!)
2. Dying is an inconvenience, but not much more. Yeah, you are gonna have to run back and lose some time and no, that is not particularly fun. But it does not cost anything.
3. Help each other out more. I have recently been playing both my Creeps a bit more, just quietly watching and getting a little bit of infamy and a ton of dp. I am utterly amazed at how much more cooperative Freeps are than Creeps! Seriously, it is mind boggling! A Freep logs on, puts an x up, and if there is a group even low 50s can get invites! Creeps tend to be very clannish and self-centered. Even when Freeps are a mixture of gold tagging and groups, they tend to help each other. I have gotten numerous buffs and rezs from folks who are not grouped with me, and I return the favor, frequently. In contrast I see Creeps (esp Wargs) who seem to feel that they are "owed" heals and help, but give no protection or help to the Defilers and WLs who help them.
Seriously. . .cooperate and graduate!
4. Focus less on personal rank/level/stars and more on team play. At the beginning of any given evening I see substantial numbers of Creeps on. But most of the Creeps are alone in a crowd. This gives Freeps the false impression that there are evenly matched groups, especially if we see a ranked Creep whom we know can lead. It usually takes a little while for us to figure out that most of you are running around like a Chinese Fire drill. Pretty soon the Creeps start to go to PvE one by one and the numbers dwindle. The unorganized singles even in large numbers can't compete with organized teamwork. When TDH dominates the Moors it is because of leadership and teamwork. Period.
5. For pity sake, be nicer to each other! I can get a bag of cats to stop hissing and clawing at each other easier than a Moors full of Creeps! People talk about how Freep GLFF is full of trolls; but Creeps tend to tear each other up a lot more proportional to the numbers in the game. My personal take is that you lose a LOT of potential players due to the perceived hostility to your own side. I know it is what keeps me from Creeping more. It is a good fast way to get dp, but that is about it.
5. As long as the majority of Creeps are focused on personal aggrandizement, manifested in stars, etc. And as long as you have large ungrouped numbers, you will be prey to smaller or equal numbers that are working as a team.
Acor
Well, I wanted you to respond to my post on freeps being ezmode, but I can correct you here just as well.
1. Get over the dying thing? If I die, I do less dps, I get less infamy, I give renown. And Isen't not dying just as good experience? If not better? I mean idk about you but if I survive a 2v1, I learn some things Idk, maybe thats just me. If I die to a 1v2, hmm what did I learn, well, I guess I forgot to use hamstring idk.
2. Actually going back to my first remark, dying does cost something, Idk anyone who can dps while dead. Also not contributing anything to the group that you want :/
3. Well people do try to make groups. I've seen it. Only reason I don't group atm is two reasons. 1. I get more infamy solo so I can get to r11 faster, and 2. I always have to lead and stuff, no fun at all. Also I have learned that its like banging your head against a wall fighting freeps, perhapse you should read my post comparing the freep and creepside advantages. Idk.
4. Well focusing less on rank means focusing less on getting better. Yes there are creeps on that can lead. But do you think we want to lead EVERY FREAKIN DAY!? No we don't, we sometimes like to keep to ourselves. You have to understand, we don't know these creeps. We just group with them, have no idea how good they are, what their personalitys are like, if they are coopertative or what. WE DON'T KNOW. So yes, TDH does dominate the moors with leadership and teamwork, cause your a kin. I mean you have been together since december as you have said, and you yourself said that the number of ranked creeps has dwindled, so there is no more connectivity on creepside with one another. If you came out just by yourself, as a freep, and joined a random group or raid, I am sure you will have a different experience then the effectivness of a kin group/raid.
5. I'll agree here that the anger of creepside chases away some. Can't argue with that so I'll stop here.
5(6). Well, like i said before, I get a lot more infamy ungrouped then grouped. Thats the reason that I don't group, also cause of stupid people. But yeah, no reason anyone else can't group together and such. ./shrug
Also, please go check out my other post, the one with all the big paragraphs and such. It really is enlightening to the real truth of pvp ./nod
i dunno maybe he's referring to warpath, but the rest of us are talking about days long before them.
^This, Imo no one(either side) is a vet until they prove it by skill if they started playing after the book 9 SoA update. SO much renown and infamy gain that much faster always brings a lowering in the skill you acquire as you rank, less time spent less skills learned. Super Simple :P.
Main example of this is really is waaaay back in PvP I saw freeps consistently remove all clearable dots with Hunters and Lms, or healed and never went WS trait, or gave out SI etc without being asked. Basically did their jobs without being told in most situations. I almost spewed my drink all over my keyboard when a few days ago a lm ACTUALLY cleared dots. Its the small things that count. :P
Also anyone who says get over dying is silly. I look at PvP as a warzone or battlefield. Every death counts and is important. I lead my raids aggressively but, with the idea in mind of taking the most kills while losing the least about of people. Anything less in my mind is a failure, especially if you are on freepside as it actually strengthens your enemy in substantial ways if you as a freep die. Thats just my opinion though.
Last edited by elros9999; Apr 27 2011 at 05:36 PM.
That's why I want to know which creeps he's referring to. We are obviously talking about different times. Hell, I rarely saw Acor out there.
I thought I had made it pretty clear I was talking about the time period starting in June, 2010, to the present. If that was not clear before I hope it is now.
I thought I had made it pretty clear I was talking about the time period starting in June, 2010, to the present. If that was not clear before I hope it is now.
Acor
Where in my statement did I ask for a date? I asked who the creeps were. If that was not clear before, I hope it is now.
Thanks for updating me though.
I'm serious! It almost never happens( at least when I'm out) Anymore, less a good lm is there. It makes me die inside when I have 4 poison dots on my and a dumb hunter is sitting in camo hugging stars or burn hotting instead of helping their raid survive :P.
I'm serious! It almost never happens( at least when I'm out) Anymore, less a good lm is there. It makes me die inside when I have 4 poison dots on my and a dumb hunter is sitting in camo hugging stars or burn hotting instead of helping their raid survive :P.
To be fair... I haven't traited ic wound removal in months. I'll do it if I'm in a raid, but otherwise can't spare the trait slot. But yeah, otherwise no real excuse :/
Cirq - r12 LM - Apex - Elendilmir
⌛ Cirone of Windfola ⌛
"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times."
Ok a bit of context, I haven't left Windy unlike others i have never transferred a character. Because of a request from a kinnie I made new Creeps to play with them on Brandywine. I have done so since Xmas. Now before you jump on me for some type of player who would jump ship, I have also done the same in the past and also have a full set of creeps on Meneldor, I prefer my ones here...BUT what I found on Brandy was refreshing....
1) As a green circle creep I wasn't ridiculed in /ooc or shunned from groups/raids....a major difference from the windy culture. (or mocked by vets who imply grping is for wimps..)
2) Where as typically on windy mass numbers of freeps routinely come out stomp the creeps and roll the map blue, the map on Brandy stays red predominantly and the few freeps who dare to come out have to fear the multiple grp to raid size creep forces (rank 10-13 creeps too lol) hunting them...
( the exception recently with the update yes there too we are seeing a similar mass freep zerg stomping and rolling the map blue on brandy...) with raids that are 50% burgs...lol
3) a typical evening of moors (brandy) goes something like freep zerg ball is reported mass fights begin (epic) the freeps cycle thru the creep raids about 2 1/2 times but in the end succumb to the onslaught. This will happen about 3-4 times when the freeps reach their death toleration (no one likes to die for no gain) and log for the night and the raids disband (freep/creep) and stealth or small grps still play for the rest of the time. Freep's dps/cc and health mitigation's mean they will win in renown collection over Creep infamy gain so don't mind as much that there side usually wipes in the end. If there are not enough WL's creepside to keep reviving and the fights going they will wipe instead....and it usually fun for both sides.
4) I respect the hard fighting freeps (and creeps) as the creep in the raid/grp next to you is just as likely to be leading the next freep raid to crush your asses next time.
I just wish that windy was more like that, I know they we will never see their numbers or as many high ranked creeps (the skins are awesome by the way...Arga would be green with envy)...
Heck I would luv to be able to dust off my Freeps and fight windy creeps without feeling guilty as I did the other night seeing a small band of creeps with Arga at grams with over 40+ freeps out...conversly I would luv to show our Creeps how a ranked creep grp dismantles the typical freep force al la brandy
And yes there have being a few brief periods in the past where creeps had temporary upper hands; the time of the purple cj's, the BA fire dots, the wargs dots as a few come to mind...but turbine was swift "fix" those and the freeps largely logged till it passed.
I also remember the release of MoM and the OP freep DPS which has never really been tuned down since....there has been many more and longer difficult periods for creepside.
I would be more than happy to help/contribute to find a solution for Windy rather than tear each other down on which is harder to learn Freeps/Creeps (I have 16 free peoples toons 4 of with are 65(and have freeped on all of them), 7 at 48-59 my lowest being lvl 30)....
for those don't know or remember there are some who call me "Lugbush" or "Orcaroo"...but never Tim the bizarrely dressed RK...(least not yet )
enough said sorry for the wall of text but it is a topic dear to my heart which windy will always be.
Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both No and Yes ~ Frodo
Well, I wanted you to respond to my post on freeps being ezmode, but I can correct you here just as well.
1. Get over the dying thing? If I die, I do less dps, I get less infamy, I give renown. And Isen't not dying just as good experience? If not better? I mean idk about you but if I survive a 2v1, I learn some things Idk, maybe thats just me. If I die to a 1v2, hmm what did I learn, well, I guess I forgot to use hamstring idk.
If you are focused on not dying, you will be less aggressive (I have personally observed this.) in your raid leading. The most effective leaders on both sides are the ones that lead from the front.
Originally Posted by Alisre
2. Actually going back to my first remark, dying does cost something, Idk anyone who can dps while dead. Also not contributing anything to the group that you want :/
Honest men can disagree, and we will have to disagree here. In my personal experience target callesr do a better job when they no longer have to worry about staying alive. I have listened to raid leaders do just as good a job of calling tactics when they are dead as when they are alive. The bottom line is they bring enthusiasm and talent to the task, and they delegate. In observing you personally I have noticed you have a problem with this. You tend to micromanage, or try to. The result is the raid becomes too dependent on you, then when you are not there, or dead, they fall apart. Compare this to TDH when Ach dies, or Rain.
Originally Posted by Alisre
3. . . . . Only reason I don't group atm is two reasons. 1. I get more infamy solo so I can get to r11 faster,
This absolutely makes my point. You are thinking about YOUR rank and YOUR infamy. This is so characteristic of higher ranked Creeps it is almost stereotypical. I could not have made the point any better.
Originally Posted by Alisre
and 2. I always have to lead and stuff, no fun at all. Also I have learned that its like banging your head against a wall fighting freeps, perhapse you should read my post comparing the freep and creepside advantages. Idk.
Your first part is a fair point. If you are always burdened with the leadership role I don't doubt you may get burned out. But I have seen more and more that you seem to play alone. If you want to make things better you need to step up sometimes and lead for the sake of the game quality you seem to prize. If you can fix something and you don't you share a greater fault than those who just can't.
Originally Posted by Alisre
4. Well focusing less on rank means focusing less on getting better. Yes there are creeps on that can lead. But do you think we want to lead EVERY FREAKIN DAY!? No we don't, we sometimes like to keep to ourselves.
See previous respose.
Originally Posted by Alisre
You have to understand, we don't know these creeps. We just group with them, have no idea how good they are, what their personalitys are like, if they are coopertative or what. WE DON'T KNOW.
And you expect to get to know them by ignoring and/or ostracizing them? I contrast this with my experience as a noob Freep where several vet Freeps spent time showing me how to play my character in PvP and accelerating my learning curve from PvE to PvP. How much more difficult must it be for a new Creep who has never even acquired the PvE experience? And yet the vets seem to put no time into helping them, expecting them to get this knowledge through some sort of osmosis.
Originally Posted by Alisre
So yes, TDH does dominate the moors with leadership and teamwork, cause your a kin. I mean you have been together since december as you have said,
No, I said I had PvPd with TDH since June, and that we had seen the numbers of Creeps, esp vet Creeps, dwindle as recently as last December.
Originally Posted by Alisre
. . . .and you yourself said that the number of ranked creeps has dwindled, so there is no more connectivity on creepside with one another.
Another fair point, and well taken. But if the remaining vets all adopt your attitude(s) about getting infamy, ranking up, etc. this situation will only get worse. N.B. TDH did not cause this problem. The reluctance of senior Creeps to mentor their "seed corn" did. And until/unless you all start working together to make it better, it will only get worse.
Originally Posted by Alisre
If you came out just by yourself, as a freep, and joined a random group or raid, I am sure you will have a different experience then the effectivness of a kin group/raid.
Your premise that I don't pug is in error. Your point however is valid. Which begs the questions, why did the tribes who so gleefully farmed us last June fall apart when we started fighting back? What happened to all the vet Creeps who did not have a problem with PvP on Winfola back then?
Originally Posted by Alisre
5. I'll agree here that the anger of creepside chases away some. Can't argue with that so I'll stop here.
Yup
Originally Posted by Alisre
5(6). Well, like i said before, I get a lot more infamy ungrouped then grouped. Thats the reason that I don't group, also cause of stupid people. But yeah, no reason anyone else can't group together and such. ./shrug
If you have the capacity to fix things, (And you do.) But you refrain from doing that for selfish reasons like getting more infamy, ranking faster, etc. then you have no complaint when the overall quality of the problem you could fix only gets worse. A rising tide floats all boats. If you help make the overall quality of the total Creep ability better, your own will get better as well.
1) As a green circle creep I wasn't ridiculed in /ooc or shunned from groups/raids....a major difference from the windy culture. (or mocked by vets who imply grping is for wimps..)
I think you hit on one of the root problems and root solutions.
Originally Posted by Papillon
2) . . . .the map on Brandy stays red predominantly and the few freeps who dare to come out have to fear the multiple grp to raid size creep forces (rank 10-13 creeps too lol) hunting them...
( the exception recently with the update yes there too we are seeing a similar mass freep zerg stomping and rolling the map blue on brandy...) with raids that are 50% burgs...lol
3) a typical evening of moors (brandy) goes something like freep zerg ball is reported mass fights begin (epic) the freeps cycle thru the creep raids about 2 1/2 times but in the end succumb to the onslaught. This will happen about 3-4 times when the freeps reach their death toleration (no one likes to die for no gain) and log for the night and the raids disband (freep/creep) and stealth or small grps still play for the rest of the time. Freep's dps/cc and health mitigation's mean they will win in renown collection over Creep infamy gain so don't mind as much that there side usually wipes in the end. If there are not enough WL's creepside to keep reviving and the fights going they will wipe instead....and it usually fun for both sides.
But how can this be? The only thing I have ever, ever heard from Creepside on Windy is how their lot is hopeless because Freeps are too OP! I doubt seriously that Freeps on Brandy have a different loot table that gives them different and lesser gear than we have.
Ok, seriouly. This just points up my premise that the Creeps as a class are viable. If as a whole population they can do it on Brandy, they can do it on Windfola. It is not the class, it is the player (Or player population.) behind the class. And I am sure the Devs look at that when they think about nerfing/buffing Creeps.
Ok, seriouly. This just points up my premise that the Creeps as a class are viable. If as a whole population they can do it on Brandy, they can do it on Windfola. It is not the class, it is the player (Or player population.) behind the class. And I am sure the Devs look at that when they think about nerfing/buffing Creeps.
brandy is a well developed community with a large population. this breeds two things: influx and high ranked creeps. you have hit the nail right on the head acor, we dont have the population to suffer losses of higher ranked creeps either quitting or going to other servers where there is better action. dont point the finger at the players, honestly thats offensive, as the same players are playing both creep and freeps.
what we are left with and currently entangled in is that the majority of creeps that are out are rank 6 and below, in fact what i've seen you might even say r4 and below. what this equates to is no firepower, creeps simply can not do enough dps at low ranks to even begin dealing with a group of freeps that approach the size of theirs (and with the right/wrong mix of toons even 1/2 the size).
your point about practicing and learning your class only goes so far when you simply cant get a kill, w/o infamy and a crapload of it, creeps wont get better, because the skills dont improve. we cant out and press hips 400 times to get leafwalker (you get my point), so on.
if you're really that concerned with the balance and fair fights i suggest you play a creep, all the time, not for a week. put down your freep and play, as some of us have.
Killing a Boogan somm'ers, 'cause they remind me of Bogarts.
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Re: where are you high ranked creeps?
Originally Posted by ghbtwo
if you're really that concerned with the balance and fair fights i suggest you play a creep, all the time, not for a week. put down your freep and play, as some of us have.
I'm glad to see you've decided to concentrate on a creep. Especially after the harassment I received form you the other night.
Maybe I should bring my Burg out and Hunt you down.
****Bogarts! We hates Bogarts!****
Best Mod quote EVER = "Closing the thread, as the OP has quit the forums." - Patience
if you're really that concerned with the balance and fair fights i suggest you play a creep, all the time, not for a week. put down your freep and play, as some of us have.
Actually I have tried, but the hostility and infighting that I have experienced on Creepside just makes it unplayable for me. [GESTALT/LIGHTBULB!] Perhaps this is a key reason why we have a healthy Freep population? It is just an overall friendlier atmosphere?
I have observed little or nothing Creepside to match the friendly banter and humor found in most Freep groups. In contrast on Creepside I see a lot of folks looking to get streets named after them. . . ONE WAY. I will continue to play my Creeps quietly, and unobtrusively for the dp, which is in-arguably better. I like having a pad over 100K dp, and will feel even better when it hits 200K. But I am not going to put up with the rancor that seems to be the norm.
Actually I have tried, but the hostility and infighting that I have experienced on Creepside just makes it unplayable for me. [GESTALT/LIGHTBULB!] Perhaps this is a key reason why we have a healthy Freep population? It is just an overall friendlier atmosphere?
I have observed little or nothing Creepside to match the friendly banter and humor found in most Freep groups. In contrast on Creepside I see a lot of folks looking to get streets named after them. . . ONE WAY. I will continue to play my Creeps quietly, and unobtrusively for the dp, which is in-arguably better. I like having a pad over 100K dp, and will feel even better when it hits 200K. But I am not going to put up with the rancor that seems to be the norm.
Acor
Use your natural born skills of leadership and oration to rally the creep forces and lead them to victory!
I'm an anomaly of conversation, I'm honoring confrontation.
I'm glad to see you've decided to concentrate on a creep. Especially after the harassment I received form you the other night.
i try
and at least wait till i get to r3, ive got enough freeps who cant get enough of me atm
Originally Posted by Acor
Actually I have tried, but the hostility and infighting that I have experienced on Creepside just makes it unplayable for me. [GESTALT/LIGHTBULB!] Perhaps this is a key reason why we have a healthy Freep population? It is just an overall friendlier atmosphere?
I have observed little or nothing Creepside to match the friendly banter and humor found in most Freep groups. In contrast on Creepside I see a lot of folks looking to get streets named after them. . . ONE WAY. I will continue to play my Creeps quietly, and unobtrusively for the dp, which is in-arguably better. I like having a pad over 100K dp, and will feel even better when it hits 200K. But I am not going to put up with the rancor that seems to be the norm.
Acor
if you're not willing to help acor then you're part of the problem. if you're not willing to work at the perceived attitudes of the creep side, then dont expect any good fights. expect the same c.rap we have now. i know you're an intelligent guy, we've spoken many times, dont over analyze this.
Killing a Boogan somm'ers, 'cause they remind me of Bogarts.
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2,807
Re: where are you high ranked creeps?
Originally Posted by ghbtwo
i try
and at least wait till i get to r3, ive got enough freeps who cant get enough of me atm
You were doing a good job at it. You have no idea how close we were to catching you before you jumped off that cliff. :/ Had that other warg put a slow on you or my srint been up. It only had 20 seconds left. >(
****Bogarts! We hates Bogarts!****
Best Mod quote EVER = "Closing the thread, as the OP has quit the forums." - Patience
Use your natural born skills of leadership and oration to rally the creep forces and lead them to victory!
After you! I am always happy to follow a good example. (Emphasis on the Victory part.)
I would certainly appreciate you posting a quote where I ever said I have natural born (or any other kind) of leadership and oration skills. I think the closest I have ever come to that is to say that English is my first language and I read, write, and speak it fairly well. If on the other hand you would like to revise and edit your post to be complimentary (Instead of perhaps, sarcastic?) to say that I have natural born leadership and oration skills (Although how you could tell anything about my oration skills I have no idea.) I would be happy to take it as kind word
. . . .if you're not willing to help acor then you're part of the problem. if you're not willing to work at the perceived attitudes of the creep side, then dont expect any good fights.
I expect good fights are where I find them. Thankfully I am finding them, although they are harder to come by than when I was a noob. As far as helping, well, I know and accept my limitations. I see no way I could ever lead a Creep raid. Do you, honestly?
Originally Posted by ghbtwo
. . . . expect the same c.rap we have now.
I know "Hope is not a plan." Never-the-less I continue to hope things may get better. If not, what we have is not all that bad. But given the predominance of the personality types I have observed on Creepside, there will have to be a vast infusion of new blood or new attitude before I will be spending a lot of time there. Have you ever wondered if that may be part of the reason Creeps are not growing and prospering as they are on Brandy?
Originally Posted by ghbtwo
i know you're an intelligent guy, we've spoken many times. . . .
We have?
Originally Posted by ghbtwo
. . . . dont over analyze this.
Yeah, I got that a lot at school. Along with the oft repeated sentiment that I have an "overdeveloped sense of justice." I just live with it. There are worse things.
for so long it was so boring. many ppl left the server or went to a new game. compared to other servers as well, windy is dead, plain and simple.
also mr abstishackles was bored long before his willy was getting wet, dont forget i was in that kin as well, miss that dude
I may need to take some Ginko or something. My memory was that we were busy doing end game stuff way over our membership level and pulling it off! And that we raided and grouped regularly.
Then BOOM! He was suddenly not around. He logged on twice while I was on before he left. The first time to tell us he was in love, and that his R/L was not compatible with time in lotro. The next time he said he had found happiness, and made an R/L friend of his the kin leader. Shortly thereafter Cupid did a Heartseeker on the new leader and he also found his own true love. He logged on for the last time, made everyone who was on an officer and poof! Was never seen again. After that with no visible leadership Fatality started to fade, with all the members going their separate ways. R/L concerns such as school took some, spouse aggro took others. Others drifted off to other kins. Three found their way to TDH
Athomniac, I apologize up front for not recognizing you, but who was your Freep? I didn't know you were ever in Fatality.
who said anything about leading, i said play, you dont need to lead
yes acor we've spoken many times, my main for years was arand
Ahh ok. I did not know that Tribe= Arand.
I think I pretty much addressed the Creep thing. I have no illusions that I can change those attitudes. A better man than I will have to tackle that task.
p.s. PvP on other servers is strugging too this update, there is new PvE content for the first time in 18months, and most creeps who are ranked have freeps who they are PvEing on alot more than previously.
p.p.s I wish I could drink at work
Votan | Xeyila | Grisburnakh
Retired - Thanks for the fun and the fights
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Re: where are you high ranked creeps?
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