It's funny how even in a fantasy realm written by a man who idealized Elves above all others people can bring their modern day thinking into it. Twisting the story around to fit their own world views instead of realizing that the Elves were the embodiment of all that was good in the world in Tolkein's eyes. Perfect? no by no means were Elves perfect.
But running away? Where were the Dwarves during that first war? (you have to show up to actually be able to run away) Oh yeah, cowering in a hole and over-mining. Stripping and exploiting the very earth to the point that their own greed new no bounds ... thus the pit that is Moria. Regardless, the Fellowship is reforged and in the last battles .. where were the Dwarves when the humans were being besieged? Was it the Dwarves who came to their aid in their hour of need? Or was it the Elves, sent by the foolish Elrond who believed that there was still a reason to fight and help the humans after all? That's right ... there was one Dwarf in that fight ... an exceptional one nonetheless, but only one and he stood by an Elf with whom he became as close as a Dwarf and Elf do. An exceptional Elf, not "nothing special" as stated in a post earlier here by someone who obviously neither read the books or watched the films.
So before you go propping up a race of over-mining, self-interested, greedy despoilers. Take into account that the creator if the Lord of the Rings prized nature and saw the encroachment of people who strip mined, polluted and defiled nature as what was eating slowly away at the world. The Elves leave because they can see that what they value and prize will no longer be. The forests will turn into a black seething mass and dumping ground for Dwarves and evil men. I realize the point of this thread is to be silly ... but at least understand your lore before coming up with this type of banal nonsense. It's complete flame baiting.
What is interesting, if I can be serious for a moment, is that Tolkien DID appear to try to make elves the "perfect" example.. and (As I have said elsewhere) the effect was kinda like the nerdy kid trying to dress bikerish/hiphop/pick your group of cool people .. and fails cause he doesn't understand that isnt what makes cool .. well cool.
Also, if you look in your lore, you will see that the forests in fact did not become dumping grounds, nor black seething masses. The elves left because they knew that the other races had lost that enthrallment with the "so called perfect creatures".
As for "where were the dwarves"... well, the ones in the Misty Mountains where fighting a war that had the by product of SAVING THE ELVES :P
Because of the dwarves, the Easterling allies of Mordor could not meet up with the orcs attacking the elves (Who I remind you only defended themselves in typical elven fashion before heading to their own price lands) and is why the elven line held.
And then there where the Dwarves who fought with the Men of Dale against the darklords forces.
All in all, the lore out and out talks about battles where dwarves where out helping races that did not just include their own.
(note: For those that dont know, in the books.. the elves DID NOT show up to help at helms deep. Im pretty sure the elves where not there in the books)
Also, the dwarves stuck around to help rebuild Middle-earth.
Yes this thread is meant to be funny, and also to discuss why we find dwarves to be so awesome.
But it can get serious when someone brings up Lore in a serious fashion.
All in all, the lore out and out talks about battles where dwarves where out helping races that did not just include their own.
How does Dale count as "out"? It's right next to the Lonely Mountain.
Yes eradicating the Orcs of Misty Mountains helped immensely in the upcoming events, but it would be foolish to think the Dwarves did it for some higher purpose, it was a blood-feud.
Re-ni-AN-nen - strayed (ppt. of renia- 'to stray')
Aeled Reniannen, Defender of Middle-earth ~ Nendhiniel, Forge-Warden : Captain and Wardenette from [EN-RP] Laurelin
Fluffrash, Blade of Barashish ~ Nathraen, Conqueror of Towers : Warg Puppy and Spider Tailor from the darker side thereof
Faradwen, Swift-Arrow : Huntress from [EN-RE] Landroval
As if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
~~~~~
Kári was a little Dwarf. / Smaller than you or me. / And wherever Kári went / He took his axe… or three.
On this we can agree. I think one of the biggest failures development-wise was giving only Dwarves a yell in their own tongue. Tolkien invented an entire language in Elvish and it's only ever spoken as a greeting by the supremely sub-par Elves in this game.How hard would it have been to give humans a yell of their own .. in English ... no research .. just a yell other than "Ahhhhhh!" Still ... Dwarves blow ... Elves ... well Elves don't rule anymore. They are taking their toys and going home. ;-)
Men ... well they live just long enough to realize what they 'could' have been. So, we come full circle, a ring if you will, to realize that the beings who seem to have it really nailed down ...are the Hobbits.
And yes, I got serious for a moment but don't by any means ... take it seriously ;D
How does Dale count as "out"? It's right next to the Lonely Mountain.
Yes eradicating the Orcs of Misty Mountains helped immensely in the upcoming events, but it would be foolish to think the Dwarves did it for some higher purpose, it was a blood-feud.
Um.. we ain't talking about the orcs. The dwarves fought an army of Easterlings at the Misty Mountains. Because the dwarves where fighting them, said Easterlings could not attack the elves along with the orcs that had already moved into position. Had the dwarves not fought said Easterlings, them and the orcs would have taken over the Woodland Realm, then moved on to Lothlórien.
Originally Posted by Valmarill
Men ... well they live just long enough to realize what they 'could' have been. So, we come full circle, a ring if you will, to realize that the beings who seem to have it really nailed down ...are the Hobbits.
Yes, hobbits are awesome. I could not imagine life without them. They are great cooks, and are even useful outside of the kitchen. When I need to put down a jack of ale but want to keep an eye on it, putting it on a Hobbit head is perfect the perfect height :P
Of the four PC races available, Dwarves are the only ones with actual speech in their /roars, and dwarven /roars echo greater than the other 3 races' /roars. I can allow for the fact that the hobbit /roar is indeed a cool one, much better then that given to the race of Man and most definitely greater than any Elven /roar.
However, this thread is totally all about how Elves suck and Dwarves rock, and when it comes to the /roar, Dwarven /roars are VASTLY superior to the Elven /roar.
Yes. I actually meant compared to elf /roars, which are... ha! Hahahaha! Ha! Any elf roaring at an orc deserves to be killed.
And as I said, I love my dwarf when he fights. Smack, maul, maim, "Haha!" punch, kick, slice "Baruk khazad!" Epic.
And look at the the current state of Middle Earth. Sauron is back! His armies are massing! Doom is coming!
And the elves are doing what?
They're bugging out.
So brave, noble and heroic. Truly they are the most magnificent race and the embodiment of everything that's good and beautiful, which is why they are abandoning the rest of Middle Earth in the hands of darkness... Yep!
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”
It's funny how even in a fantasy realm written by a man who idealized Elves above all others people can bring their modern day thinking into it. Twisting the story around to fit their own world views instead of realizing that the Elves were the embodiment of all that was good in the world in Tolkein's eyes. Perfect? no by no means were Elves perfect.
But running away? Where were the Dwarves during that first war? (you have to show up to actually be able to run away) Oh yeah, cowering in a hole and over-mining. Stripping and exploiting the very earth to the point that their own greed new no bounds ... thus the pit that is Moria. Regardless, the Fellowship is reforged and in the last battles .. where were the Dwarves when the humans were being besieged? Was it the Dwarves who came to their aid in their hour of need? Or was it the Elves, sent by the foolish Elrond who believed that there was still a reason to fight and help the humans after all? That's right ... there was one Dwarf in that fight ... an exceptional one nonetheless, but only one and he stood by an Elf with whom he became as close as a Dwarf and Elf do. An exceptional Elf, not "nothing special" as stated in a post earlier here by someone who obviously neither read the books or watched the films.
So before you go propping up a race of over-mining, self-interested, greedy despoilers. Take into account that the creator if the Lord of the Rings prized nature and saw the encroachment of people who strip mined, polluted and defiled nature as what was eating slowly away at the world. The Elves leave because they can see that what they value and prize will no longer be. The forests will turn into a black seething mass and dumping ground for Dwarves and evil men. I realize the point of this thread is to be silly ... but at least understand your lore before coming up with this type of banal nonsense. It's complete flame baiting.
Since no one has yet to mention it, in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men, the Dwarves did fight along side Elves and Men. They even sent Durin IV to lead their attacks, who was the direct descendant of Durin I, and leader of all Longbeards. If he was to die the dwarves all over the West would be in mourning. In the War of the Ring, what Elves fought Mordor with no self-interest? Rivendell? No. Lothlorien? No. Mirkwood? They were protecting their own borders. The only Elf that truly fought Mordor was Legolas. The only dwarf was Gimli. The only people that fought Mordor and Sauron directly, was Gondor.
Also, the Elves left the forests not because of the Dwarves and Men. And and if you know the point of the thread is to be silly, why did you even respond?
The race that over-mines and is greedy, is selling that ore to Men and Elves. If the Elves detest that so much, they'd speak up. I know they like hearing their voice, and having it heard as well.
Now let us review your Outro, shall we? " ... but at least understand your lore ~ snip"
Well, it seems I have to say the same thing to say to you.
Before you go making your post (on a thread that isn't even serious), try to realize on what you're exactly talking about.
Drobur Graventongue, Caravan-Master of the Mîmshol Trading Company
I've read this thread with great interest, and in so doing, come to realize the entire discussion lacks perspective. Now, I realize, it's mostly Dwarf-centric and focused on an ages old rivalry between the Elves and Dwarves. I've seen some comments from Men and Hobbits in here as well, and that's all good. But there are certain perspectives that have been left right out of the mix. So . . .
A Warg's eye view.
Elves: Tall, stringy. Not a lot of meat on them. Can tell the males and females apart with practice - At least by sight. Hard to tell just by voice, or by scent. What's with the strawberries? Would probably make great groomers, if not for passion for 'pretty' stuff. Warg with bows? Not gonna happen.
Dwarves: Short, tough. Fair bit of meat on them, but you need to get the Uruk to tenderize it. Goblins can't work a tenderizer. Can't tell males and females apart. Not sure females exist. Too much hair to eat raw, so best leave for the Orcs. They'll eat anything. Tunnels too big to make good dens.
Men: Tall, meaty, easy to tell apart. Think they can sing like elves and drink like dwarves, but really can't do either. Bad tendency to try and tame our cubs. Might be worth long term contract after war, provided veterinary services included.
Hobbits: Short, tasty. Now them's good eating. Nicely marbled and succulent. Except for the club-like appendage at ends of legs. Probably feet, due to location on body. Would probably be ok in long term contract, except for high likelihood they'd try and ride us. Same height as Goblins, but twice the weight.
So . . . there. Now you have a different perspective on the whole us vs them argument. Won't get into the Orc or Goblin view.
And remember. We're not evil. We're just misunderstood - and got stuck with some really bad collective bargaining near the end of the 2nd age.
One thing that no-ones mentioned yet is the utility of our awesome beards...
They can be used to save food for later, to hide our pets and keep them close, to flail at enemies with. It's also always useful to have a mop close by for that beer you just spilled by downing a pint in one.
They are also, the secret to our innate wisdom.
Also, i was talking to a moria dwarf npc, and he said something about killing durins bane and procuring a banner from its hide- i.e. they wish to kill it, and turn its skin into their flag. That counts for something.
Lives at.....umm...some dwarvish house......ill get back on that.....
THIS is the best thread i've seen on these forums. Or atleast a very close second to that thread suggesting more Dwarf beard styles....
Anyhow, i just....can't fathom how awesome this thread is.
But now, back to saying why elves, simply, suck.
1.NO beards! I believe this reason need's no explaining.
2. They think they are so fancy, drinking Wine instead of beer. (I'm suprised if they can even hold they're wine...)
3.Meanwhile they are sailing to the west, we are bashing skulls.
4.They dislike dwarves. One of the main reasons they suck.
5.Nothing good can come when an elf starts smithing! (For example, the Silmarils and the three rings....idiots.)
6.They are orc-cousins!
7.Those....those...horrible... ears....*shiver*
8.Again, no beards.
9. First time i talked to an elf in-game...."The sorrows of the Eldar are never ended."----> RUN!
10.Are there really male elves? I think not.
11. THEY AREN'T THE FIRSTBORN! WE ARE!
12.This has been mentioned earlier, but...the Dwarven /Roars own.
13. If the elves would have done they're job right, the Balrog wouldn't have escaped to the mountains, wich would have meant the following:
Khazad-Dum wouldn't have fallen.
The lives of many Dwarves would have been spared...*sniff*
Gandalf could have lived.
There wouldn't have been a poopload of Goblins beneath the mountains...
1.NO beards! I believe this reason need's no explaining.
Our features were ordained by Eru, the One. Your own were by a Valar, and granted life.
2. They think they are so fancy, drinking Wine instead of beer. (I'm suprised if they can even hold they're wine...)
With wines of Dorwinnion, and beyond, the 'lesser beverages' need not touch our mouths.
3.Meanwhile they are sailing to the west, we are bashing skulls.
Most flee, some stay. Our fight against the enemy has gone on longer than even your folk.
4.They dislike dwarves. One of the main reasons they suck.
After the fall of Moria, t'was your folk who became dis-trustworthy of my own. Not the other way around.
5.Nothing good can come when an elf starts smithing! (For example, the Silmarils and the three rings....idiots.)
Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar or break it within the Kingdom of Arda. Yet that crystal was to the Silmarils but as is the body to the Children of Illuvítar: the house of its inner fire, that is within it and yet in all parts of it, and is its life. And the inner fire of Silmarils Fëanor made of the blended light of the Trees of Valinor, which lives in them yet, though the trees have long withered and shine no more. Therefore even in the darkness of the deepest treasury the Silmarils of their own radiance shone like the stars of Varda; and yet, as were they indeed living things, they rejoiced in light and received it and gave it back in hues more marvellous than before.
Please read.
6.They are orc-cousins!
Nay, but our ancestors were corrupted into them. Pray that their spirits find peace.
7.Those....those...horrible... ears....*shiver*
Those...horrible....beards!
9. First time i talked to an elf in-game...."The sorrows of the Eldar are never ended."----> RUN!
Nor is the arrogance of the Dwarfs!
10.Are there really male elves? I think not.
We look alike, to members of the opposite gender, save when most prominently in child-bearing.
11. THEY AREN'T THE FIRSTBORN! WE ARE!
Technically, we are. You were puppets, and set to sleep in the earth until -after- we awoke.
12.This has been mentioned earlier, but...the Dwarven /Roars own.
I can agree with this, but Elven sword-mastery is the bane of all Yrch!
13. If the elves would have done they're job right, the Balrog wouldn't have escaped to the mountains, wich would have meant the following:
Khazad-Dum wouldn't have fallen.
The lives of many Dwarves would have been spared...*sniff*
Gandalf could have lived.
There wouldn't have been a poopload of Goblins beneath the mountains...
1. Pft, no beards are always a bad thing, whether decided by Eru or not.
2."Lesser beverages"-and that's what i mean by being fancy.
3.Hey, just because you are little older and have fought against the shadow doesn't give you the right to flee! I wouldn't complain if the elves would fight it one last time, and THEN sail of into your beloved pointy-ears-land.
4. We have all the right to be suspicious. One can never be too wary of elves...
5.Yeah, yeah the Silmarils were pretty and all that, (altough the Dwarves surely could have done it better.) but what happened because of them! And YES, i have read the Silmaril.
6.Well, since elf blood was used to create orcs-COUSINS! And yeah, i'll hope they find peace, right after my axe goes through their skulls.
7. Seriously, your just jealous, ADMIT IT!
8.Arrogance? Nay, we aren't arrogant. Atleast we don't start our conversation by lamenting! The elves really worry too much...just grab your axe (but since elves propably don't know how to swing an axe, use swords) and cleave goblins in halve!
9.Nothing to comment on this.
10. Nope, we are.
11. Don't meddle with that elvish of yours!
12. We have the right to dig deeper, as said, it was your fault we found something nasty!
"Will you stay a moment and listen to my troubles?"
"The sorrows of the Eldar are neverending"
"Hope is not in vain…"
Uh yeah... Even the empty promises by us hobits about tea are better than that. "Come and have some tea!" I'm still waiting for mine.
Dwarves tend to greet how? "At your service! And your family's!" Or they complain about being bothered and seem to be just a tick away from smacking you with a shield or a mug.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”
Uh yeah... Even the empty promises by us hobits about tea are better than that. "Come and have some tea!" I'm still waiting for mine.
Dwarves tend to greet how? "At your service! And your family's!" Or they complain about being bothered and seem to be just a tick away from smacking you with a shield or a mug.
And, also in your favor, Hobbits are MUCH better eating!
Now, now, I won't eat you. Momma always said we're not supposed to eat anything that can talk.
But seriously, if you all would only reserve some of those friendly greetings for us. Maybe a nice meaty soup bone and a brush? Big bowl of kibble? Let us scare away all the Shrews from every farm in a five mile radius for a spot by the fire?
Not a spot IN the fire!
See? And people wonder why we're suspicious of you two-legs.
Now, on a topical note, I was seeing how it's widely believed that there are no girl Dwarves (a suspicion we share), and some believe there are no boy elves (Though there are, and you can tell them apart with practice.), that leads to the rather disturbing conclusion that, if true that there are only Boy Dwarves and Girl Elves . . . well.
Dwarves are carved from stone by Aule himself! Who has SUCH a better understanding of Arda itself than Eru ever will. Dwarves were made for a purpose: Aule would instruct them with his knowledge of all things related to crafting and of the earth, to withstand the harsh underground environments in which they would spend the majority of their lives mining and crafting, not to mention the wild beasts and evils that would arise in Arda. Let's not forget that Melkor was the first Ainu to enter Arda during it's creation; another reason why Dwarves are such stout, indomitable beings.
Also, if you ACTUALLY read closer in the Middle-Earth dwarven creation story, Dwarves are INDEED the first-born race of Arda. When Aule showed them to Eru, and Aule was about to smash them into dust and the dwarves then reacted (out of fear, of course). It was only because Eru wanted to be all high and mighty that Dwarves would not walk in Arda before the Elves.
Now, on a topical note, I was seeing how it's widely believed that there are no girl Dwarves (a suspicion we share), and some believe there are no boy elves (Though there are, and you can tell them apart with practice.), that leads to the rather disturbing conclusion that, if true that there are only Boy Dwarves and Girl Elves . . . well.
Dwarves are carved from stone by Aule himself! Who has SUCH a better understanding of Arda itself than Eru ever will. Dwarves were made for a purpose: Aule would instruct them with his knowledge of all things related to crafting and of the earth, to withstand the harsh underground environments in which they would spend the majority of their lives mining and crafting, not to mention the wild beasts and evils that would arise in Arda. Let's not forget that Melkor was the first Ainu to enter Arda during it's creation; another reason why Dwarves are such stout, indomitable beings.
Also, if you ACTUALLY read closer in the Middle-Earth dwarven creation story, Dwarves are INDEED the first-born race of Arda. When Aule showed them to Eru, and Aule was about to smash them into dust and the dwarves then reacted (out of fear, of course). It was only because Eru wanted to be all high and mighty that Dwarves would not walk in Arda before the Elves.
Yep. Firstborn ftw. And while the elves were sobbing over their precious trees, we were marching to war and making crafts that have never been paralleled. Why? Because we were designed by Aule to withstand Morgoth and his evil. That's right, the Valar who kinda shaped the world made us the chosen race to kick some orc ####.
In addition, elves are treacherous filth. Know the city of Duillond in the Blue Mountains? Stand on the northern terraces. You can see the city of Kheledul, a dourhand port. Not only see, but the city is within clear range of siege machinery, which would be rendered even more powerful by the height advantage. Why have the elves not constructed catapults and ballistae, and laid waste to the city from the comfort of their own home? They're literally allowing the dourhands to live there and trade with Angmar on the river (where the elves are supposed to have naval superiority). If the dwarves occupied Duillond, not one stone would stand atop another in Kheledul, and the ravens of the elven loremasters would be pecking the eyes from the skulls of the dourhand corpses.
I say enough. Drive the elves from their hiding holes, use the river and their terraces to lay waste to Kheledul, and reoccupy it. No more shipments from Angmar, and Sarnur will surely fall. Then we have only to deal with the blue-crag goblins, which will fall swiftly without their allies. All we need to do is sweep the elves from Ered Luin, and the Mountains will be the realms of Dwarves again.
LOL... Funny thread! I especially love the warg perspective! :-) Yeah, I'm an elf...but I guess one of those rare ones with a sense of humor. Still, I think dwarves are gross and smelly and greedy little buggers, but they do say some funny things once in a while!
When I first started lotro, I tried to have an even spread of races across my various alts. After a good amount of gameplay, I came to despise the elves in general and loved the dwarves most. And I have since purged my account of all elves but one and rerolled every class that I could as a dwarf.(and for classes that couldn't, i chose hobbit, then man as a last resort.)
The one elf alt I kept I had already bought a bound cosmetic from the store with and couldn't therefore make myself delete him. I have since made him my housing cosmetic item storage toon, since the only role befitting a "male" elf in this game is a home decorator......
Dwarves Fat
Short
Horrible Beard
Has to swim in a puddle
Elves All female
The supposedly "male" version stands like he's got a sword up his...
No short hair. The shorter hair has stupid decorations on it.
Looks stupid overall.
Both classes suck.
Healerstevo - Rank 6 Warleader
Blackbowstevo - Rank 6 Blackarrow
Browsing the forums till GW2 is released.
Dwarves Fat
Short
Horrible Beard
Has to swim in a puddle
Elves All female
The supposedly "male" version stands like he's got a sword up his...
No short hair. The shorter hair has stupid decorations on it.
Looks stupid overall.
"Throw it into the fire Isildur!"
"No."
"Okay! I'll just... uh... go back to Rivendell and mope."
So the One Ring gets lost (duh) and returns (shocker!) and what is Elrond doing? He's bugging out. With the rest of them. Running away. Does he, just once, even consider mounting a defense against Sauron? Mobilizing what elves they have left and go out in a blaze of glory? Nope, he doesn't. He's too busy moping around in Rivendell, crying how Legolas used up all his bubble bath and is now prettier then him and how Arwen looks better in his purple dress.
^^ Fixed that up for you. LOL thats funny. The way I like the races is
-Dwarf
-Hobbit
-Man
-Voldemort
-Gollum
-Sauron
-FEMALE Elves (You can't really tell the difference (just check if they have chests)
-Everything else in the world.
-*Male* Elves.
JUST KIDDING!! It's actually...
-Dwarf
-Hobbit
-Female Elves
-Women
-Voldemort
-Gollum
-Sauron
-Men
-Everything else in the world.
-*Male* Elves.
Last edited by Drakojan; Aug 07 2011 at 04:51 PM.
Reason: Because I feel like it. STOP ASKING ME WHY I WANT TO EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS MY DESCSIONNCSSSSS.
Do you see a resemblance between Men and Americans, Elves and French (maybe Japanese), Hobbits and Irish, and Dwarves and Russians. Maybe Tolkien used these nationalities as influences. If so, we can better understand each of them if we knew more about today's world.
Egotist: A person of low tastes, more interested in himself than in me.
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Originally Posted by Valmarill
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Re: Why elves suck and we rock.
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^^ Fixed that up for you. LOL thats funny. The way I like the races is
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