Thema: Raw Morale/Power

Zitat von Regero

True.

It's also been said (possibly by Rata himself) that more morale = Ghetto crit defense.

So, I was in Watcher just a few days ago and was assigned to tank. After cappy buffs, I had roughly 9.8k morale. So, there I go doin' what I do around during the first scream like I'm supposed to do, and I get distracted by Mom at the worst time possible. After helping her out, I turn back to see me go from 9.8k morale to 111 morale, standing right in the middle of the second scream. Once morale pot and a single Conviction later, I was back to a comfy safe zone to where I could progress further within the raid (after getting severe tongue lashing from my mini).

DIS AIN'T NO LIE, MAYNG!

Zitat von takimeta

So, I was in Watcher just a few days ago and was assigned to tank. After cappy buffs, I had roughly 9.8k morale. So, there I go doin' what I do around during the first scream like I'm supposed to do, and I get distracted by Mom at the worst time possible. After helping her out, I turn back to see me go from 9.8k morale to 111 morale, standing right in the middle of the second scream. Once morale pot and a single Conviction later, I was back to a comfy safe zone to where I could progress further within the raid (after getting severe tongue lashing from my mini).

DIS AIN'T NO LIE, MAYNG!

Gotta hate it when those Moms distract you during the Watcher.
:P

I only recently hit 65 on my Warden. Just started gearing him up. He's sitting at 7500 morale and about 2200-2300 Power currently. That's with no relics or anything on my LIs. Waiting to finish making my Extraordinary level 65s first (the ones with melee defence, vitality, ICPR etc). I concentrated on getting defenses and mitigations up, while aiming for high vitality as well. My Vitality is capped now(actually over by 15 so I can take away a bit from somewhere I am sure). After all of my settings/relics/etc. are on both LIs, I am sure I will be well over 8500 Morale unbuffed. 7500 now like I said... plus about ~1k from LIs should bring me close to 8500.

Actually, now that I look over everything... I am finding I can easily get alot more then that with little trouble. I am still using a few Reputation jewelry pieces that I have yet to upgrade. I am planning on getting the 2 earrings from the new instances (starts with an "S", can't remember the name). Those alone will give me a total of 100 raw morale. My Cloak is being upgraded to Cloak of Shadow and Flame (another 20 or so morale). I still have one crafted relic slot available on my jav which is another 100 Morale if I go that route. Let's see... I have a couple armor pieces that are still quest reward that I am sure could be replaced. So all in all, I can see how easy it would be to get 9k Morale unbuffed. I'd rather stick to 8-8500ish though and cap mitigations, avoidances, etc. though. It's when I see Wardens (and even guardians) that are level 65 that only have about 5-6k morale that worries me he he.

As for ICPR... currently mine is only at 1250 with Conservation on and no other buffs. I do not have any ICPR relics on my LIs yet (as I previously stated, just need one more tier 6 relic for each LI to finish my Extradodinary Settings of the Beginnings.) That will give me +200 ICPR. Plus the Conservation legacy which will add +100. And I have my last 2 stat tomes to purchse which are both Fate... so +20 Fate should add a couple ICPR he he. So after my LIs are done I should be at around ~1600 ICPR unbuffed. I only equip the new Power Return gloves when I am soloing multiple mobs. I find they aren't really worth it for boss fights or single mobs. But things such as Carn Dum or Uru (if farming class items) they are awesome! Grab 15 low level mobs and just drain them to death.

Zitat von Elrendos

It's when I see Wardens that are level 65 that only have about 5-6k morale that worries me

I'm in that boat. Just hit 65, and I'm sitting at 5300 morale. My LIs are still level 60 2nd Ages, but I'm leveling some 65 3rds right now. I don't have any of the old relics, and so will only be using new ones.

http://my.lotro.com/home/character/gladden/deryn/

What do I need to do to get even up to 7k Morale, let alone the 9k some people have? I'm using the best crafted armor I could find, and I know I need better. What would be a good armor set to work toward? And what should I be looking for in terms of jewelery?

Power is definitely an issue as well, I have about 1300 regen with Conservation running, but a small enough power pool that I run out before long. Currently running Shield + Capstone, so I don't get that wonderful -40% Quick Thrust Power trait.

I think my virtues are Innocence / Empathy / Zeal / Compassion / Tolerance, all at 10. Empathy is less useful now that I've hit 65, so I figure I'll start working on Loyalty or Discipline to replace it. I find Innocence and Compassion to be incredibly handy, and Zeal is useful enough to hold on to. I've been hearing that Tolerance isn't actually as useful as I thought it would be, as apparently even spells cast by monsters are common instead of tactical damage. I could replace that with Loyalty instead, and keep Empathy for more defense.

You might want to scroll up to the link to my warden, because it's pretty much what a newish 65 can look like after about 3 weeks at 65. 4 pieces of moria armor, 2 pieces of volume 3 quest rewards, cloak from 2.6.8, the better crafted jewelry, and the best crafted shield. Only one thing I'm wearing is particularly hard to get (pocket item from T2 NCF). Morale is around 7200.

Oh, and don't bother with lvl 63 legendaries - go right to lvl 65.

Zitat von Chidas

http://my.lotro.com/home/character/dwarrowdelf/chidas/

I've been in game since. Some other stats:

ICPR (with conviction) 1348 per min
incoming heal 2554 (14%)
melee defense 2078 (7.5%)
melee damage 5810 (23.4%)

You're looking pretty good, actually. Work at improving your jewelery as you group up. Try and get either ril-mir or the new 75 vit ring. I'm betting with better relics , you can beef up that power pool a bit to 2.7, and your morale to mid-high 7ks. Moria gear - I know people love it and all, but there's a few items that just are not that great. You're missing a lot of +morale you can get on some of the other items out there. Just keep an eye out.

Also, replace your carving with one with melee def.

today I rearranged my relics and got to this with amber-ring clicky and vit food:

morale: 8,999
power: 3,049
icpr: 1250

My icpr is about the same as it was before, I normally have an icpr bracelet on but not with this max morale build. I've been trying to get the new earring from NCF which would put me [insert cliche here].

The only real hit I took here was to incoming healing. I lost about 2-3% incoming healing but also gained 2-3% melee defense and 2-3% critical defenses in addition to about 700 morale and 500 power. A worthwhile trade imo.

Zitat von SkateDr

Just curious if anyone has done any reliable testing on the crit defense aspect of things ... If I have a 10% reduction to crit and the mob has a 10% chance to crit, does that mean a 0% chance now or is it a 9% chance? Pretty big difference depending on how it is worked out, but I have not had time to look into it myself yet and that could play a big part in picking relics/etc.

Here's some info on Crit def posted elsewhere.

Zitat von Naesriel

Crit defence is, to the best of my knowledge, simply additive (well, subtractive): there was a post by (i believe) Graalx2 long ago stating this; around the launch of MoM - Crit Def directly subtracts the amount of your Crit Defence from the mob's Crit rating.

it's one of the reasons why Grds were a lot more useful in BG than Wdns, cos Grds could more readily build for Crit Defence. this situation has changed with the new relic structure, however.

Zitat von Graalx2

QFT
This is the way it works.

Awesome Nerves. Appreciate you doing that research. +Rep

Now if only we can figure out if bosses are capped at 15%, somewhere lower or can go over cap . The joys of the unknowns.

Zitat von SkateDr

Awesome Nerves. Appreciate you doing that research. +Rep

Now if only we can figure out if bosses are capped at 15%, somewhere lower or can go over cap . The joys of the unknowns.

as i've answered in the other thread, percentages here aren't relevant: Crit defence directly subtracts your rating from the mob's Crit rating; leaving aside the auto 1% crit chance. so percentages are only indicative; you can be 'capped' at 15% crit defence rating and *still* improve on it, because, it's being employed as a rating, not a percentage.

the answer to the question 'when to stop building for crit defence' is *not* 'when it's capped' but 'when doing so is causing me to sacrifice something important somewhere else'. otherwise, it's like melee defence was back when it was still called -incoming damage: the benefit continues to increase with scale.

Wow I'm seeing some of the numbers on this thread and it's making me feel like my warden is a little out of wack. He's sitting at about 6.1k morale and 1.8k power (1400 ICPR) unbuffed. Once I finish up my relics and traits for my tanking build it looks like he'll have around 6.9k morale, 2.3k power (1700 ICPR) unbuffed. I have no idea where the huge disparity between my warden and other's I have seen running around Windfola with 8.5k morale unbuffed. Even stacking all the +morale relics I can I'll still be behind by about 1000 morale.

It's not that I'm complaining about having trouble with the game due to a low morale pool(I've tanked every 6-man in the game outside the new content successfully). It's more that I'm confused about where all this morale is coming from? I've inspected as many other wardens as I could with these huge morale numbers and I'm not seeing anything out of the extraordinary gear-wise - mostly Helegrod with some DN or vice versa. Here's a link to my character:

http://my.lotro.com/home/character/windfola/anegnir/

I know my jewelry could use a bit of an upgrade (ril-mir and all that jazz) but I really don't think my gear is so out of date that I'm so far behind other wardens in terms of morale? Seems like my stats are a little off too...

On first initial impression, the main thing I see this build missing is the end-game jewelry that most of the higher end Wardens have, namely Ril-Mîr, Miniature Brass Anvil, something similar to Sarenzer, Insidious Cuff, etc. Granted, these aren't needed for any build, but those are usually the most sought after items.

You've got no +morale on any of your armor. Helegrod is terrible if you're interested at all in +max morale. It's really good otherwise, don't get me wrong. That is it's main weakness, imo.

I get 190 raw from helm, 190 from gloves, and 100 more from my cloak, for starters. I also get more from my shield.

Check out the link in my sig to see what jewelery I'm using. Remember that if you're interested in stacking morale, some of the crafted stuff is close to the raiding gear, and the epic questline has more than a few droolworthy rewards.

Oh, and get an up-to date carving already.

Ah ok yeah thanks for pointing these out guys. I don't know why I never noticed the raw morale boost on those DN pieces...guess I never bothered to look since my kin isn't exactly up to snuff for DN at the moment. Guess that's something to look forward to

Thanks for the advice up thread. I've gotten the right carving now (sadly did not crit) & am working on my virtues (and slowly on my relics). Follow-up question, somewhat OT, though:

I've been reading a lot about the Helegrod set recently. Marginally tempted to go for it (of course I'd like the new set but am not running the new instances enough to think that I'll be able to get it before the next expansion). One thing which doesn't get mentioned a lot is the armor difference - over 300 more versus the full Moria set. How important is that? Of all the areas where I am currently deficient, that appears to be the one area where I don't have much in the way of upgrade options, Helegrod aside. Nor am I anywhere close to being capped. OTOH I'm aware that the set is actually worse in some respects (e.g., morale).

It is my opinion that it isn't important. The biggest difference you'll see these days is from stacking specific non-common mitigations depending on the instance. I wouldn't base my armor decision on the armor value. They are all close enough, given they are of a similar level and armor type.

Thanks. Curious then why anyone would go for the helegrod set, aside from the 6 piece bonus which is interesting but situational.

It's got decent bonuses to m/v/a as well. Plus it's a heckuva lot easier to get than the DN set.

Zitat von Chidas

Thanks. Curious then why anyone would go for the helegrod set, aside from the 6 piece bonus which is interesting but situational.

I am using Halbarad Helm and Leather Gauntlets of the Hill Watcher and trying to fill out the other 4 with Helegrod pieces. They are not great but more easily attainable than the full Moria set because winning the barter item in the watcher is difficult and because of raid locks time consuming. I'd like to get the DN or BG sets but again difficult to get when your kin is small and doesn't run them a whole lot anyways. Making them difficult to get. Here is what I added up when deciding on how to do pick my first 65 set:

So I'm getting a little bit of negation of damage, little bit power from procs, little bit of threat and more total morale than I was before I started getting the items. Only thing I'm really loosing is a set bonus of recklessness on the hele set and I wasn't a huge fan of the Annu set. So while I work on trying to get Defender set this is what I'm working on. Without raidiance you have a lot more options. There are some light armor power gloves somewhere as well. Might try them out at some point too.

You can now get medium armor power return gloves from the epic questline 3.3 Decent stats. Same as DN, except power return instead of morale.

Still working towards a few more extraordinary relics(namely Gem of Hope and Rune of courage) which will further increase my numbers. I'm currently at 7647 morale and 2488 power, I'd like to get up to 8k morale and 2.5k power(which i'm not far off from) and ill be happy.

I recently was able to get my hands on another symbol of celebrimbor which enabled me to make a 65SA javelin which i'm lvling up (currently at 52). My goal it to be the toughest little hobbit tank i can be,and i'm still trying to get my hands on another Sarenzer earring to increase morale and m/v/agi stats.

Other noteworthy stats
b/e capped (with shield mastery)
p close to cap (14.9%)with wall of steel
icpr 1525 (with conservation)
might 613
agility 609
vitality 636

Zitat von HalProudFoot

Still working towards a few more extraordinary relics(namely Gem of Hope and Rune of courage) which will further increase my numbers. I'm currently at 7647 morale and 2488 power, I'd like to get up to 8k morale and 2.5k power(which i'm not far off from) and ill be happy.

I recently was able to get my hands on another symbol of celebrimbor which enabled me to make a 65SA javelin which i'm lvling up (currently at 52). My goal it to be the toughest little hobbit tank i can be,and i'm still trying to get my hands on another Sarenzer earring to increase morale and m/v/agi stats.

Other noteworthy stats
b/e capped (with shield mastery)
p close to cap (14.9%)with wall of steel
icpr 1525 (with conservation)
might 613
agility 609
vitality 636

Can you post a link to your toon? I'd be interested in seeing what gear you are using.

Sure

http://my.lotro.com/home/character/1...2887797882675/

My perspective I guess is that, given that the advantage of Helegrod over Moria + 2 is marginal at best - and arguably non-existent - I'd rather spend my time working on other upgrades.

Zitat von geoboy

You're looking pretty good, actually. Work at improving your jewelery as you group up. Try and get either ril-mir or the new 75 vit ring. I'm betting with better relics , you can beef up that power pool a bit to 2.7, and your morale to mid-high 7ks. Moria gear - I know people love it and all, but there's a few items that just are not that great. You're missing a lot of +morale you can get on some of the other items out there. Just keep an eye out.

Also, replace your carving with one with melee def.

Thanks. Since then, with better relics and some more virtue ranks, and a couple of minor gear upgrades (including the carving), I've improved a lot, mainly:

morale 7619
power 2495
melee defense 3428 (11.7%)
melee crit defense 2860 (10%)
melee damage 6200 (24.4%)
melee crit 24.54 (8.7%)

My ICPR is also a much higher, but I may have made a mistake on that when I previously posted my stats. Still a little more improvement possible, even without any of the nice jewelry drops.

Edit - not that anyone likely cares at this point, but with one more gear upgrade and a couple more ranks of valour (9 now), my morale is now over 7700 unbuffed - not bad for no raid gear (well except for my new DN ring ). I don't think I can get it over 8000 without compromising other stats or getting some pretty unlikely gear upgrades.

Reviving this thread as with the introduction of some of the new gear, morale numbers seem to be increasing across the board on the order of 750-1000 morale, both for those going lossless morale and those going maximum morale. As of Update 3 I think any Warden can achieve a lossless 8k+ morale build even without old relics or raid sets.

I aim for lossless morale, which to me means not sacrificing key survivability stats like inc healing/mitigations for a bit of extra morale here and there. My current build for reference(still not completely done):

Stats
Morale: 8598
Power: 2147
M/A/V: 607/599/606
B/P/E: 3300/3300/3500
Melee Def: 3316
Inc Healing: 4636
Common Mit: 5680
Crit Def: 2860

Gear
Necklace: Mirhigil (grandfathered version)
Earrings: 2x Sarenzer [NCF Thadur]
Bracelets: 2x Bracelet of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Rings: 2x Ring of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Pocket: Sailor's Charm [Inn of the Forsaken - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Shield: Superior Warden's Shield of the Golden Host [Mirkwood Crafted]
Helmet: Spear-Shaker's Helm [Helegrod Set]
Shoulders: Spear-Shaker's Shoulders [Helegrod Set]
Chest: Spear-Shaker's Jacket [Helegrod Set]
Gloves: Defender of the West Gauntlets [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Leggings: Spear-Shaker's Leggings [Helegrod Set]
Boots: Defender of the West Boots [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Cloak: Cloak of Shadow and Flame [Instance: New Devilry]
LI Settings: 2x True Setting of Continuance [Turbine Store]
LI Gems: 2x Extraordinary Gem of Hope [Relic Melding]
LI Runes: 2x Extraordinary Rune of Courage [Relic Melding]
LI Crafted: 2x Symbol of Morale [Cook Crafted]

In a raid setting Melee Def/Common Mit/Inc Healing/BPE are all capped and Morale is roughly 11,000 with a Banner of Hope. It would seem then that a 10k+ lossless build is achievable even without complete top of the line gear, since a lot of it is in relics and fairly easily accessible jewelry. Everything listed above, with the exceptions of Mirhigil(no longer exists in old form) and the Defender of the West pieces, can either be solo'd or 3-man/6-man PUG'd(NCF/Hele dailies).

It also should be possible to self-buff to 10k morale in a maximization build. Making the following changes...

Necklace: Othrikar Warrior's Charm [Odothuilan Campaign - Jewelery and Cloaks Vendor]
Pocket: Forgotten Jewel [Inn of the Forsaken - Classic Vendor]
Helmet: Defender of the West Helmet [OD Tier 2 Set] (Alternatively, DN/BG Helmet or Halbarad's Helm)
LI Runes: 2x True Rune of the Two Trees [Relic Melding]
[Slotting 'Justice' instead of 'Empathy']
+30 Vitality Food
+250 DP Buff

nets a total morale of 10,123 without hope. The losses with respect to the previous build are of the order of 2k Incoming Healing(Helm/Neck), 800 Melee Defense(Pocket), 400 Armor Value(Virtue), 44 Agility, and 20% Partial Block/Parry Mitigation(Relics).

For the moors that wouldn't be a terrible trade to make to run around with 10k self-buffed(you do lose a bit of firepower though because you aren't slotting the off/crit/dev relics). In a tank setting I suppose it's debatable, though I would posit that at a certain point the amount of extra morale you have becomes imperceptible to the healers, since they are likely basing their healing on % of bars full as opposed to exact numbers, and therefore a mitigation buffer between the attacks and the affect on percentile would seem to be more effective than a dilution of the morale pool to exorbitant numbers.

I'm curious to see what other Wardens are seeing with the new update(s) and what sorts of numbers you're now aiming for in your builds.

I had 9k before the update. You can view my build at my sig.

I'm now using 1 brawler set. I take the extra morale there and removed loyalty from my virtues and added the one with ranged + tact def. My morale stays in the high 8900s, and I've reverted to the loth shield for more melee def.

(note that this is a solo build)

Relics ( both):
morale + melee offense
morale+ power + crit defense
morale + power + crit defense (old rune)
symbol of battle

Now I'm thinking about my tanking sword, which is about to come together.

I have available some of the +incoming healing +icpr +tact def gems from before.
I'll probably use the store only setting (yeah I know! but I've got a ton of points and nothing to spend em on). My question comes on the rune.

Should I strip a crit defense rune off one of my solo spear, or put in one that features icpr. (true rune of the 2 trees: morale/power/icpr/icmr)

We're looking at 300+ icpr here and well over 2k incoming healing, loads of power and morale, too.

Zitat von Jacbo

Stats
Morale: 8598
Power: 2147
M/A/V: 607/599/606
B/P/E: 3300/3300/3500
Melee Def: 3316
Inc Healing: 4636
Common Mit: 5680
Crit Def: 2860

Gear
Necklace: Mirhigil (grandfathered version)
Earrings: 2x Sarenzer [NCF Thadur]
Bracelets: 2x Bracelet of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Rings: 2x Ring of Brawling [Halls of Night - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Pocket: Sailor's Charm [Inn of the Forsaken - Classic Skirmish Vendor]
Shield: Superior Warden's Shield of the Golden Host [Mirkwood Crafted]
Helmet: Spear-Shaker's Helm [Helegrod Set]
Shoulders: Spear-Shaker's Shoulders [Helegrod Set]
Chest: Spear-Shaker's Jacket [Helegrod Set]
Gloves: Defender of the West Gauntlets [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Leggings: Spear-Shaker's Leggings [Helegrod Set]
Boots: Defender of the West Boots [Ost Dunhoth T2 Set]
Cloak: Cloak of Shadow and Flame [Instance: New Devilry]
LI Settings: 2x True Setting of Continuance [Turbine Store]
LI Gems: 2x Extraordinary Gem of Hope [Relic Melding]
LI Runes: 2x Extraordinary Rune of Courage [Relic Melding]
LI Crafted: 2x Symbol of Morale [Cook Crafted]

From the looks of it, your ICPR is very low. On the list, unless I am missing something, you only have three items that give power regen, your two store bought relics (boo store exclusive items btw) and the mirkwood shield. I am guessing it is somewhere around 1200-1300 unbuffed? Your raw power is also too low for me as well. Otherwise it is very similar to my build except you have T2 OD items and I only have one piece of the T1 set so far =\

Zitat von geoboy

Now I'm thinking about my tanking sword, which is about to come together.

I have available some of the +incoming healing +icpr +tact def gems from before.
I'll probably use the store only setting (yeah I know! but I've got a ton of points and nothing to spend em on). My question comes on the rune.

Should I strip a crit defense rune off one of my solo spear, or put in one that features icpr. (true rune of the 2 trees: morale/power/icpr/icmr)

We're looking at 300+ icpr here and well over 2k incoming healing, loads of power and morale, too.

Personally I'd swap the Crit Def rune, though I don't know the numbers on it since I don't use the old relics. It will be pretty funny when more Wardens start rolling out with 5pc OD to fight Reavers who find they couldn't crit if their lives depended on it(coincidentally they do), but I think the increased Crit Def is more of a 1v1 gimmick in the moors since it isn't going to save you from a focus fire.

Zitat von duamarth

From the looks of it, your ICPR is very low. On the list, unless I am missing something, you only have three items that give power regen, your two store bought relics (boo store exclusive items btw) and the mirkwood shield. I am guessing it is somewhere around 1200-1300 unbuffed? Your raw power is also too low for me as well. Otherwise it is very similar to my build except you have T2 OD items and I only have one piece of the T1 set so far =\

I agree about the store exclusive items, that setting came second in the Design a Relic contest so I guess we only have ourselves to blame as tanks for not voting harder and beating the Setting of Ages. Either way, I have nothing that actually improves my survivability relatively permanently(until a new LI) to spend my monthly points on so was an easy investment decision.

I have ~1400 ICPR unbuffed, which becomes about ~1800-1850 with 10m food and Focus buff. If it's a really long fight and we have a Banner of Victory to compensate it's 2k+. This has been sufficient with a LM and forcefeeding myself power potions every time it's off cooldown, CJs where available. If for some reason it proved insufficient and I needed power to hold threat more than anything else, I carry two Glowing Aureate Bands of Morale to hotswap(+200 ICPR) and two 65 SA LIs that I'm building for small group play which give a net increase of about 500 ICPR(along with every power reduction legacy), sitting me at a cozy 2500 ICPR or so until the power pot is back up or LM is available to throw some. As a real last ditch measure I carry TP power pots, but I've never had to use them.

The distinction I think is that my build is not intended for small group content where you lack pieces like Captain/LM you need for the hardest content and don't need the same levels of mitigations. For that I'm working on a third LI set(in addition to the tank set and moors set I have) which maximizes ICPR. Wearing that set and swapping 4x Brawler for 2x Glowing Aureate Band of Morale/Ril-Mir/Textured Gold Ring I sit at ~2k ICPR before food and external buffs.

I'm sitting around 8400-8500 Morale, 2300 Power.

1797 ICPR in Conversation
18% INC Healing
10.9% Melee Defense