Thread: Joining a kin. The things you should know if your new to game!

There are many kins over all servers. No single kin is better then the others, but there are kins that are more suited for you. A kin should reflect you as a player, not the other way around.

GET INVOLVED

A good kin will try to involve its members, if your new to MMORPG'S like LOTRO, You should look for a kin that helps you level, fits your personality and, provides the best opportunity for you. Don’t EVER be afraid to keep searching.

ASK QUESTIONS

Never EVER join a kin without asking the recruiter questions. be prying. if it irritates or perturbs them, don’t join that’s a sign of impatience, and could mean they don’t care much about new members

GET TO KNOW THE MEMBERS

Don’t join a kin and never say hi, kin leaders hate that, and its the fastest way to get booted. also, don’t turn our kin chat into OOC. some kins are more lax and allow OOC chat in kin chat, if you don’t know ask! We want you to make your mark, we want you to say hi and get to know ppl, but we don’t want you annoying everyone using kin chat as an instant messenger when you should be leveling.

CHOOSE THE RIGHT SERVER

Spread out on the server forums for a bit, get to know which servers are newer, which are older. Don’t go jumping into an older server all Rambo style expecting to start a world takeover. also respectfully, don’t judge a server based solely on a few ppl. some servers like Dwarrowdelf have a smaller number of forum users.

DONT BEG FOR MATERIALS, OR GOLD!

Everyone hates a beggar, if its offered fine, but if u need to continually ask your going to get booted. its that simple, kins hate it. it proves your unreliable, unable to do things for yourself, and it just plain sends the wrong message!

DONT THREATEN THE KIN LEADERS. OR OFFICERS.

your rear fecal matter does stink, even if your to ignorant to smell it. if you have to stoop so low as to threaten a kin leader or officer with leaving you don’t need to be here. yes we know you can make your own kin, do we care? no, why would we? we already did create a kin, and its damn successful thank you very much! (unless of course the kin really does stink, in which case kudos’ to you for leaving.

KIN WEBPAGES

If your kin has a web page. use it, some kins go through allot of trouble to create a usable kin site. using it proves to the kin leaders your willing to participate in kin. some kins promote solely on activity on there own forums. If your kin does not have its own web page, start a thread on your server threads, on the LOTRO forums, or find the one that’s already made, and support your kin. There is nothing that a kin leader likes more then a member who promotes there kin.

DONT ACT LIKE A JERK IN REGIONAL

Don’t act like a jerk anywhere, doing so gives your whole kin a bad name, be a jerk on your own time, without a toon that has a kin name attached to it. this is one of the quickest ways to get booted from a kin.

FEEL FREE TO ROAM ABOUT THE CABIN

!
if your kinship has a house ask them what the rules are, see if they hold any events there, if not offer to help start them, if they decline and you feel like you are missing out, find another kin, there a dime a dozen on all servers.

DRAMA MAMAS GO HOME

simple, if you are a troll, or a drama seeker, go play EVE. (great game) or something else. you will just get ignored. and I can guarantee, you will get kicked from kin after kin, until you find a lower kin that encourages that, and honestly those kins are no good, and get no where as a family.


And most importantly, be yourself. we want to know that the person we just invited into our kin is an all around good addition to our family, tell us if your going to be gone for a few weeks, or even a few days, we hate not knowing. if you do leave a kin, tell the leader or officers, it can only do you good in the long run. If you communicate, and treat the kin leaders with respect they will treat you with respect, act like were human too! we hate when new players act like were all self-righteous snobs on a pedestal, were not we were new players once too. give us a break, remember were human and we make mistakes, don’t hate just because you don’t get your way right off, have patience and it will pay off.


Making A kin


The Lord of The Rings Online (LOTRO) offers many unique and exciting aspects. One of which is the ability to create your own kin. Now there are many ways to run a kin, several different approaches one could take. I have over 8 years of online gaming. come to realize certain ways work best for certain people, the first step is to ask yourself, who am I? am a warrior?, perhaps a diplomat? maybe I'm just someone who wants a place full of ppl I can talk with?. whatever you do best should be what you base your kin on.

"DANGIT JIM IM JUST A DOCTOR"

Use your members’ abilities. you are not superman, you never will be, and face it, if your kin doesn’t have members, your not a kin leader (aside from the obvious make your own kin filled with alts.generally one has to lead others, not themselvs for this forum to apply.) work with them, TRUST them. if you understand the limits of those you work with, you possess the ability to accurately, and decisively compensate through many different forms of approach. Keep a level head, and remember, if your officers, can only do so much, its not there fault, its there strength. work with them, and help them see what you want. a true leader inspires greatness from even the most wayward of players.

A GOOD LEADER DOES NOT SEEK CONSENSUS, HE CREATES IT.

If you truly wish to create something, and you truly wish to take it there, there is no limit, a real kin leader will struggle on his path, but never falter too far, Don’t demand respect, especially from your follower, incite it in them with your actions. if you prove that you are capable of being human, but still roll with the punches, then you my friend are a person I want to meet. Do not demand from your kin anything, they make you not the other way around, these ppl live real lives, and respond in real ways.

THERES KLINGONS ON THE STARBOARD BOW

Trouble will ensue. it always finds a way. You will be challenged with a great many things, depending on how far into the rabbit hole you chose to go. if you wish your kin to be casual, you will find trouble further down the road them those who may chose to create an overactive kin., whatever your chosen path, stick with it, the rewards are amazing. When the time comes, regardless of kin style, you will be able to prove to yourself, and your kin, that you are a force to be beheld. In 8 years I have seen many want to be leaders, fall apart, because the challenge overcame them, and not the other way around. With ambition comes challenge. Take it with stride, collect yourself, and study before making your move, its a game, remember that. you have the advantage of time. always.

THERE TAKING THE HOBBITS TO ISENGARD!

There is nothing worse then delayed communication, and or no communication at all. You are not telepathic, neither are your officers, and or kin members, they do not know your plans, they do not know your dream or ambitions, tell them, tell them now!. understand that if you have communication between officers, nothing will get in your way. One officer who has no clue means the whole lot has no clue, don’t promote someone just because of there level, promote them because they deserve it, and they work with your ideals, and they believe in your plan for kin. don’t ever promote someone to officer because they bullied you, or threatened to leave. there are plenty of fish in the sea, the objective is to keep as many as you can, but understand the difference between a "keeper" and a "throwaway" let your kin members run your kin., don’t let them run you, and your ability to decide.



Most importantly above all else, be human, we don’t get into the business of leading kins because there easy, we get into the business of running kins, because its rewarding when done right. don’t waste someone’s time if you plan on creating a dictatorship, don’t waste there time if your never going to share, this is not your greatness your dealing with anymore, its your entire kins, the second you started recruiting it became there dream as well, so be a role model, and share that dream with all who want it! it can only make you a better person.


Kinships on any server can be fun, rewarding, and productive. I can find value in all leadership styles from Meritocracy's. to dictatorships, to anything else you can dream of, each option has its own rewards, its own challenges, and its own bag of tricks. understand that with the right mentality anything can work. it depends on how far you let it affect you.

There have been numerous times I have a joined a great kinship, and months later, the leader becomes full of himself, and believes that his kin is the best ever, when things go good, its hard not to get full of yourself, it was a challenge I myself went through many times in life. This comes about with stagnation. if you choose to allow yourself to become complacent with all you have accomplished, you forget that it was your hard work that brought you there. and over time, it will become easy to think that there’s none better then yourself. Trust me , wake up call time, if you don’t want to lose the investment you worked so hard to achieve, then I suggest you get up, stop being satisfied with success, and go get some more!. why not? you’ve taken a few weeks off, you’re kin has been around for 7 or 8 months, just got your kin house. take a few weeks, but don’t let them become months.


In addition, Trust your second in command, I have found that over the course of every kin I’ve observed, I admit I haven’t observed them all, that the kin successor tends to feel secluded, they tend to get the feeling that they cant talk to you as a kin leader. change that. understand that sometimes ppl react unthinkably, you are a different person, and your mind is in a different place. let them in, and equally walk in when they allow it. your successor should be your best friend of sorts, maybe not in rl, but out of all your officers, your successor is one that should be the most trusted. he will get your kin in the future. unless your one of those who cant share there glory. (in other words, don’t think your kin wont last without you, if your doing your job right they can. everyone is dispensable, including yourself, this is not a sign of weakness but strength, for your kin to be able to run without your micro managing, is what we call success)


And most importantly, DONT MICRO MANAGE. its not needed, you would hate it if someone did it to you, you know it, so why do it, understand the difference between leading by control, and leading by example. a true leader uses his time wisely to train the officers, and successor to run the kin, that way, the leader has time to help himself level, or craft or whatever. if you manage your time to the fullest extent, your kin will only need your input now and then, which means you have successfully created a kin, taught it to run itself, and in the process, gained the trust and admiration of those who follow you. that is what a leader is.

Don’t be mistaken by the large number of kins out there that are not ran with this consideration in mind. there are allot of em too. look at kins that have been around for years, or kins that have a huge following, its because they have the ability to change hearts, and spark interest in others minds. these ?????? little 8 month kins that pop up and die the second the leadership is complacent with there kin house, is well , unfortunate, and a waste of everyone’s time, not just there own. I prefer to be a part of a kin, that wont just go belly up once the leader gets his jollies, and starts believing his life is gold.

There's a lot of good stuff here that newbies and veterans alike can benefit from.

Originally Posted by Isharra

There's a lot of good stuff here that newbies and veterans alike can benefit from.

Thank you mate, I love what LOTRO has to offer in a player base, but so many ppl in this game just dont use what there offerd to the fullest. if and when Turbine updates its kinship controll panel allowing players to take controll of the game, how they want to play it, you will probably notice alot more kins being ran to there fullest potential. for now we wait and do it on our own somehow.

THE PLAYER WILL ALWAYS BEAT THE GAME!

nice job fulk, lot of thought in that.

Very well written, I'll just like to add on somewhat as a kin leader, one which we have to readily remind ourselves...

WE ARE NOTHING WITHOUT OUR KIN.

A few more tips for kin leaders:
1) Stay in control. No matter what happens, keep a cool head.
2) Adding more onto the Star Trek references, lead like Picard rather than Kirk. Most of LOTRO's players are pretty mature.
3) Kirk had Spock, Picard had Riker. As Fulksayyan said, trust your second in command Preferably someone who has the kin's respect and compliments your leading style.
4) Your kin members have no obligation to stay, it's your duty as kin leader to create an environment where they'd like to come back to and enjoy being in. Create a dynamic that will work and continue going.
5) As your kin gets bigger, set ground rules... or rules from the start depending on your leading style, and if you actually know what you're doing. I have noticed that people do not mind rules so long as you're fair and reasonable.
6) If you're serious about making a good kin, talk to other kin leaders/officers, trade pointers on how you handle issues. You'd end up learning a lot about what to do and not do... i.e. don't make a kin and go missing to play a different game, don't turn someone who everyone has issues with into an officer, don't say A and then do B.

Nice job, Fulk..excited about the things ur tryin to do for our kin and for our server. keep it up

Thank you all for your input, A leader is and always will be as strong as the ppl who lead him. (for those kin leders who stil think there the ones in full controll, im sorry mate)

true leadership can only come when u understand teh strength and weakness of those who chose to serve you closely, you will notice as your kin gets larger, you have less and less of an oupourtunity to do things with everyone, the simple solution to that is to open up, and create layers (yes layers like an onion, or a parfait) if you trust and train and learn equilly from your officers, and second in command, you will have no problem letting them run your kin.

Now while there are many different styles, I opt for one where i as a kin leader am nothing but a trainer, and a supervisor, I make it my sole job to train, and be trained by my second in command, and the other officers, i let my second in command run my kin, because it is him who will have teh responsability to knowing what made the kin great while i was running it.

I prefer to make shure that i know what my officers think is best, and i work with them, i improve there manegement style and i strive to perfect there reactions to certain situations. In other words, i use there strength's, and i fill in there weaknesses with others who call it a strength, or i teach them to turn there weakness into a strength.


A second in command is and always should be your most important officer. while in my kin all officers are equill, everyone knows that my second in command will inherit one of the most activly evolving kins on dwarrowdelf, and as such, i want to make shure its in his ideal to continue our legacy as a kin, and as a key member in our alliance.


I base success on how active the least active member in our kin is. and i base it simply on the fact that ppl in kin are satisfied. as mentioned above. it is our job no one elses to ensure that we keep our kinships entertained. however or whoever we choose to do it, it is still a job we must be willing to fufill.

and now i argue with myself for the benefet of reason.

There is another method, one that a few ppl have stumbled upon, refined, and over time made it there own. And it works. There is the leader who with an iron fist commands and leads his men through strength and brute force, the klingons call it a way of life, we call it a meritocracy, In definition the strongest of the strong lead. This method, while working, some have found it wiser to not rule with an iron fist per se but instead, add a hind of humility. I am the highest ranked whatever on whatever server, work with me and i garuntee you will all be within the top right under me. This mentality is exhibited by Pvp or in our case freep vs creep play. I dont discredit this way of leading at all, because it is like everything else a motivational tool, as a kin leader you must respect all leadership styles, but dont mistake an idiot trying to lead as a leadership style. (that is most commonly referd to as, an idiot with a following, veary dangerous breed of kinleaders, highly emotional, and quick to start drama, avoid at all cost. I have in other games found it most benificial to use the leaderboards as a motivation. and it worked, naturally, human nature to be the best of the best.


So in practice as well as theory,( to steer away from the almost inevitable star trek reference, i apologize i have interests in many games, books movies and other nerd things,/cough, look at kin name in sig /cough) leading by skill has never hurt anyone, what we must deal with is how do you define skill, which leads me back to my original statement, not everyone can lead a kin, but it takes every typ to do it. Just as this game encourages fellowships be forged, each of there own making, each of there own skills, with strengths and weaknesses. you can be a kin leader if you understand what it means to be influencing someones time, and game experiance, understand that its no longer your game your messing with, then, if you accept that responsability, rock the hell out of it! for real. get with it and party with it, it is a fun rewarding, and often challenging experiance, you have nothing but knowledge and intuition about the ppl you enjoy time with, to gain. I can honestly say that it does take every typ, no one style of leadership is wrong, its the morals, and the belifes of teh person behind them, if ppl enjoy it, and there entertained, then they must be doing something right. Inter kin fighting is just not groovy. so to speak. there never is and never should be a reason a kin leader should get dirty with another kin leader, it should never go there, so what he stole your top spot on the leaderboards, congratulate him, and try again later, who knows, maby next time you wont end up as hobbit soup. (or any other racial soup for that matter, and god forbid you actually turn into a real life soup, altho if youve read this far, i might suggest your brains have turned to soup)


This and much more to come this is a serious subject that any new player with the intent on joining a kin, should know about. a player that knows how a good kin is made, is more likely to understand which kin is best for him.

I have several players in my kin, that are good, and i mean really good, they can play the game nicely, even better then me in some cases.

But they lack personality, they lack the ability to make things happen, and they lack the ability to impress me beyond there ability to play, Because of that even tho they are some of my original members, I refuse to promote them to officer, I choose instead the ones capable of moving mountains.

What does it mean to move a mountain?

Well it really is as simple as you have it or you dont, If your capable of going the extra few miles, then your on a good start. If you like to go above and beyond then your on a good start! if you like to Make impossable things happen, then your doing what i as a kin leader want!.

I and many kin leaders value you, and value your input, we value the help you try and give us when you do! but being able to offer suggestions, and being able to make them happen are in itself two different things! I have several players capable of coming up with brilliant solutions to impossable plans, but because they lack the willingness to do it in person, i dont promote them!

Most kins that consider themselves Über kins promote based soley on a persons capability to perform with limited to little input from teh kin leader, And other officers.


Just because your a level whatever, and you feel you have what it takes does not mean you have what i need! It doesent mean your any less qualified as a player either. Alot of problems arise when a person has been in a kin a long time, without promotion.
This is why i promote teh use of our kin forums, so we can establish other ranks created outside of game, and supported by our kinsite! It lessens the gap between officers and kinsmen.


If your one of these players who has a hard time becoming an officer in the kins you join, the problem is not always teh kin leader as you would think, Chances are, a lot of factors controll teh leaders decision for promotion, and each leader has different criteria, Keep trying! dont give up! and remember rainmakers go far in most kins!

I'm not a heavy MMO player. I tried DDO for a while, and have enjoyed LotRo for the last 6 months, and will continue to do so for some time now. So I haven't had much experience with different styles of kins, or guilds, but it really all comes down to being a friendly player and asking for help when you needed it, offering help when you can, and giving help where asked.

A kinship in LotRo is more like a family than most other games have. It's a kinship House, not a guild hall, or guild airship, or something else. A House. The kinship that my friends and I have going is really just a basic one. It's small, but we know each other in RL. Most members are casual gamers, or play a number of other games and so are not often on. Having a smaller family isn't a bad thing, it can still be fun. Most of the time, it's myself and one other player that are on. It certainly limits the scope of quests that we are able to complete, namely larger instances, but we are still able to enjoy the majority of of the game, and the epic story-line as well.

If something like this isn't enough for a player, find a kin that fits your play style. Alternatively, if you like your kin, or have good friends in a kin, partner with a second kin. I've seen this already in the game. I've heard them called 'sister kins' and the like. Different kins have different goals, styles, and activities. Find a sister kin to run raids with, craft with, level with, or whatever takes your fancy for that week. As long as there is communication and you know what to expect, you can create a kinship and extended kinship that will build your gaming experience into something wonderful.

Edit: Just noticed the Dwarrowdelf Alliance link. Love that idea! I'm gonna check and see if Firefoot has something like that.

Deff. I am all for small close nit kinships that are started by friends in game. it serves as a great enviornment to grow, and offers a few benifets a larger kin couldent!

I agree completely that smaller kins should find a way to buffer themselves through something such as an alliance, or a friendship between kins!

If you dont know ask teh kin leaders that interest you as an ally!

Ill reflect a bit on how the players in our kin put together an alliance within our server.

We started off one night during a typicall brainstorming meeting that was open to our kinsmen for input / refinement. During this kin meeting a newer player suggested that we used our ability to create alliances with other kins in game. well of course there is no such function, and after a few minuts listening to everyone reminding him. i reminded our more enthusiastic members the goal was to take all ideas and refine them untill plausable, or possable. And after a bit of discussion, about 2 months to get it started, with its first members, and another month to bring it to where it is today with over 750 active involved players.


What we came up with:
We decided our primary goal would be to offer smaller kinships the ability to use our basic membership benifets that we offer to kinsmen, and without having them join our kin allow them to grow untill they could offer help to other kins, or untill there current membership base was elite. either way we as a kin would benifet just as equilly as the other kins, once the alliance got off teh ground.

What took so long:
The initial problem was, what do we offer to kinsmen that we can offer to other kins that they may not already have? well that took some time to ponder, and an even longer time to get there. we determined that the thing taht wuld help smaller kins out is 1) active online members of all levels capable of helping them
2) A Source of both verbal communication, and offline communication. (we decided on going teh free rout so we wouldent have to charge any of our members, or pay for it ourselves, many options are available, voice servers such as raidcall are free and offer 50 slots per server, and you can run a maximum of 3 per person, we also decided on Guildportal.com for not only our kinsite but our alliance site as well.
3)Entertainment. simple easy, we figured we would offer a form of group activity that is better played in large groups, for this we use teh in game freez tag, and tag, as well as chicken runs, and various festival activities

What we did to get here:
By using the free sources of communication, (raidcall, and guildportal) we built a foundation, and we started getting to know kins that were close to our rank, and had similar ideals. In this we found our first kin Lords Of The Meares. after they joined, and people started seeing that we were using our user created chat room ( /joinchannel (name) ) to fill raids, and we were becoming self sustained, we drew teh attention of many smaller kins with 30 to 40 members in them, and a few with 10 or 20, we openly accepted them in, and tehy now form teh active core of teh alliance, all kins have grown, because of the use of teh alliance advertisement, others who may not grow from teh alliance membership, have elite forces of 65's ready to pounce, so on so forth...


We wish to establish a large alliance much like our kin, My method of tackling problems may not be suitable for others, and may not be right for most, because we openly accept kin applications based on little criteria, some kins have left, but overall we maintain an average steady growth, as with everything turnover happens, as an alliance tho when turnover happens, you dont lose 1 or 2 ppl, you lose 20 to 90 ppl, but equilly as an alliance when you grow its exponentially upwards as well.

I have seen many succesfull small alliances several on my server as well, teh alliance of dwarrowdelf is not the first alliance on Our server, its just the largest.

A multi kin alliance much as the one we have takes alot of time, and therfore it requiers a special class fo player who we call teh pencil pusher, the one who likes to sit around and come up with great ideas for everyone to benifet off of. I have been extraordinarily lucky as dwarrowdelf seems to have no lack of dedicated intelligent personell. especially for a free to play server.

Much in the way that a smaller 2 or 3 kin alliance is easier to run, and more connected then an Über Alliance.

Whatever your chosen method whatever your chosen path, and however you succeed as long as you succeed!

(There's a lot of "your" where it should be "you're" and "there" where it should be "their". Ask someone for assist on that - and please type out "people" instead of using "ppl" etc. It doesn't matter a lot but makes it easier to read and easier to be taken seriously.)

Good advice - as an old nub since a few years of not-quite-gaming I had OK help from this.

Originally Posted by Macroscian

(There's a lot of "your" where it should be "you're" and "there" where it should be "their". Ask someone for assist on that - and please type out "people" instead of using "ppl" etc. It doesn't matter a lot but makes it easier to read and easier to be taken seriously.)

Good advice - as an old nub since a few years of not-quite-gaming I had OK help from this.

Really? All of the good information in the post and you're worried about spelling and grammar? Please don't be that way, it hurts me somewhere deep inside.

Wow.

Originally Posted by Malach

Really? All of the good information in the post and you're worried about spelling and grammar? Please don't be that way, it hurts me somewhere deep inside.

Wow.

I have...sent you a PM

Carry on! Nothing to see here, folks!

As I said just above

Good advice - as an old nub since a few years of not-quite-gaming I had OK help from this.

So thumbs up.

There are good ways to lead kinships and there are bad ways. Don't misunderstand me though. I mean 'Good' as in Yoda, and 'Bad' as in Darth Vader. Yoda was passive and understanding, Vader was aggressive and demanding. I see both leadership styles in this game, and they both work. The Vader method tends to be more popular with small hardcore endgame kins, while the Yoda method is more popular with larger, casual, and newer kins. The question of which one you should join is how high your tolerance level is for being told what to do and what kind of pace you want to move at.

agreed xD lol there are many things you'll have to face when joining a kin, lol and fortunatly for us, lol the dark side isn't all that evil in this game xD,

This game better be good. Longgggg download it is. im told its good though. If its not i think i'll just go play wow. it MIGHT be funa again.

It is good. And fun. And there's still so much left to do.

After all, Blizzard is so far out of ideas, they had to destroy significant parts of their game world just to make a new expansion for WoW.

A lot of input and I couldn't read everything in one go, but it helps a lot. Im in a Kinship for almost as long as I play LotRO and after the former Leader found that he had too little time to play, somehow stumbled into the position of the leader. Since then I have developed more a yoda-like style and had a lor of help from my kin with that, but didn't really know, what I'm doing at first....

Reading all those comments shows me, that I still have a lot to learn but already am on the right way... ^^ THANK YOU

In the kin I am in we have had a couple of leaders, the leader we had when I joined was very active and spent a lot of time talking to potential members before recruiting them so recruiting was slow but the members we did get were all people who were interested in playing and contributing and people who wanted to be in a kin like ours (it is a social kin with a focus on crafting, although we have been adding end-game stuff to our repetoire now).

Our old leader had some problems with the server we are on and decided to leave for another server so we had an election to elect our new leader, who then ended up going awol because of school work so we have elected a new leader and second in command from among the ranks. The leader in our kin handles decorating the kin house, cleaning up storage containers and arranging kin meets with competitions and fun, all the rest is up to the members. We try to help out each other as much as possible through crafting or helping people through quests or instances, if a new member or an alt needs GB marks someone will always offer up the services of a level 65 to do some quick runs for marks.

When looking for a kin or joining a kin I think there are 3 things as a new member you really have to be aware of:
1. Will the kin help you out within reason to become a better player and create a better character? this means giving tips and tricks and helping with equipment. Don't beg for these things, especially not for materials and gold that gets old very fast, but if you have a crummy weapon or at level 18 still run around with the shoes with no stats on them, feel free to ask if someone can craft you some new stuff.
2. Is the kin active? especially the officers and leaders, if they are around a lot and talk that means they will be more likely to help you out and will take a greater interest in you.
3. What is the kin profile and does it suit your style? if you join a kin that is all about crafting then you will probably get disappointed if you don't care about that, or if you are level 17 and join a strictly end-game raiding kin you will probably be bored. Make sure your interests align with what is being talked about in the kin channel.

agreed deffinatly some good comments

I would liek to remind everyone as its getting to be that time in my kins history, where the original players, are well no better way to put it, Board.

They wore themselves out playing this game all the time, and they didnt give hemselves a decent balance of games, My officers included. While they were amazing, they devoted too much time to the kin, as did i, making it harder twords the end to pay attention. I was able to take a few days off for vacationing, but they didnt, i came back from vacation and a few officers had left and gone inactve. This is no big problem, as were all on talking terms through our forums, but it did present the problem of having to promote and train new officers.

No hard task once youve done it a few times, as im sure you all know. But teh moral of the story, make your officers take time off, You cant controll them, but sometimes in certain kins officers get overzelous and work themselves into disdane for the game itself, set aside time and do things with your officers just you as a leader and them.

dont let your kin become your entire focus, because that gets old quick.

if you balance yourself, you just may live to see the next day........

I just wanted to add a couple points.

Not everyone wants to be an officer. Some folks like to play the game, not create a second job for themselves. There are a lot of expectations with the officer title and frankly, not everyone wants the responsibility and obligation. Also, I would hope leaders know to ask people if they want the job before promoting.

If you take time to group just the leader and officers, don't shut out your members. I've seen a guild fall apart because the leadership did everything for themselves, and the rest of the members were purposely left out.

And yes, spelling does make a difference. It just looks more polished if it's correct.

Thank you very much for this post! Being a new player I was having a hard time finding some solid information on what to look for in a LOTRO Kinship. You cleared up all an any concerns I had. With added information I didn't even think of taking a look at. This is worth while guide and should be treated as such! Thanks again!

ol thank you both mates, i agree compleatly with all points, an officer should be a willing officer, Im not too sure how most kins do it outside of teh realms ive reviewed, butWhen i promote an officer i typically only get one or 2 out of every 4 i have in mind, simply because i tell them from day one that there are extra expectations, and i show them, my job as a kin leader has always been to help them, so they can help me, so i never try to pile it on too hard. but when you have a kin with 200+ peopel and only 8 officers, sometimes it gets to become a second job, thats when a kin leader has teh responsability to step in, and ease up, Your only as good as your weakest link, so making sure everyone is revitalized, and energized becomes a priority. we are capable of doing great things as long as we dont push ousselves too far, some peopel like me have a mentality that allows me to work the game as a buisness. But just because that is my personal strength doesent mean i can expect it to be theres. It all comes down into playing into there strengths, and making sure someone can equilly cover there weakness and vice verse.

Officers and leadership should not in any way seclude themselves from Members. Most typically this typ of kin model can survive, but with fewer members, and less focus twords teh newer additions. these are known as meritocracys. When a kin leader and teh officers enjoy teh benifets of everything for them and them alone, its because tehy feel they have the merit to do so. This typ of kin does not survive on a large basis, because it relies on ever persistant merit to advance. but this typ of kin model is good if you have a group of real life friends, and or aquaintences you knwo can kick #### in the area you desire.


as for spelling i apologize, and before you go all spell check on me. know i am making an effort to collaberate this entire guide into appropriate format from spelling to grammer, so on so forth.

dont ask the player what he can do for your kin, ask yourself what your kin can do for the player ...

thats how it works, what you discribe comes from illusionist boggus that only exists in kin-leader minds, or in the ones of people trying to take in-game matters all to serious ...

everything you wrote is COMMON.SENSE, in every situation or organisation ...


greetz

lol you would be suprised at teh lack of common sence

xD but i digress, i lack it as well sometimes.

The intention of this thred was mainly and still is to be helping members of my kin, and teh kins within the multi kin alliance we run a better chance into my mindset.

In teh end thats all i could ever hope for is to try and explain something here that i wouldent have time for during teh game.

evey kin leader is differnt and every kin member is different, but the ability for us to stick together and evolve together is what makes it work.

./hunter rez!

Spelling, grammar and punctuation notwithstanding, there is some great information, tips and help here. I am fortunate to belong to a great Kinship and I appreciate everything they do for me as a total nooblet to LoTRO. The game has a huge learning curve, some learn quickly, others it takes a bit longer, so as long as the leadership recognizes this and provides feedback (in a non-critical manner), then their members will eventually blossom. I agree, not everyone is cut out to be an Officer, nor does everyone want to be, even if they might show leadership qualities. Frankly, it would be my worst nightmare. So, I am taking the opportunity to thank the posters here for the information provided and my Kinship for their help, understanding and friendship.

Its not a bad post. If tips for newby kin members is what you are looking for, I'll add the following:

Under don't beg for gold or mats... I would say, never, EVER ask for gold. Gold is far too easy to come by for you to need it. I won't go into deep details here, but money literally falls off the mobs and gets thrown at you from quests. No one should tell you how to play or spend it, but if you run out, its because you chose to. Don't make it someone else's problem that you spent your money. Requests for money are an automatic no from me everytime. (my few exceptions are from real friends where I understand they are working on a project or making a gift for someone else)... Make friends by being helpful, not by mooching.

Also, in regards to mats... There is a HUGE difference between, "can anyone give me the Slime from CD?" and "1/6 for CD, I'm going to try for the Slime I need" Guess which one will get you more help? One is moochy, the other is an attempt to fellow and pull your weight while also earning other things along the way.

On the other side... Don't be afraid to ask for help. If you tried something and it doesn't work, maybe someone can simply tell you a better tactic in kin chat. Maybe they will offer to come help. The mistake I see is when people think the kin is there to help whenever they need it and they get impatient. My rule of thumb is ask once. If there are no offers, find something else to do for a bit and try again the next day (or when the roster changes up some). Often, there may be someone else needing the same thing you are but they set it aside for the time being. I raise these moochy points because I see a lot of folks that think kins are only there to serve what they need. IMHO your kin should be your in-game family. It works best when you give and receive and approach each other with great deals of respect.

Exactly,

For example, A few weeks ago, we had a member who joined our kin, and a week later left, and started spewing all his lovely hate about us in /regional.

The /regional hate is fine, usually ends up with people joining our kin because they know they wont have to deal with people like them in there.

But the reason for his hate? No one would give him anything, He coulden't find a group, and no one wanted to quest with him. Or so he thought.

One of the things all my officers do when they log in is start a chat log of kin specific channels, so they can show me proof of everything that happend, in case something does happen, Nothing fancy just a 4 day buffer log of chat files, between all my officers, i get a full picture if something happens.

After reviewing of these chat logs, i noticed a trend, Thinking, that perhaps he honestly got caught in teh cracks, and truly recived a bad experiance. But, He would ask for something very vaguely, i.e. I need help!
And then after asking once, he would start to complain about how a kin should always help, and always give there members what they need to play. A few members would tell him off, a few would try to explain that they could help him if he explained what he needed, When he did, naturally it was for material items.

We As a kin give our trash away for free, another mans trash is a new players treasure, We even have a channel for it, We give plenty of things away for free, Hell our crafting guild in kin will only charge you crit mats if you want a crit item. otherwise crafting is typically free.

But that wasn't good enough. And after a week of doing this daily, where he would ask for help once or twice, argue about how no one liked him, he left. Which was a good thing, because by now i had seen all teh chat logs, and was damn near ready to save him the trouble of having to quit, and so were my officers.


Long story short, Presentation is everything!, I agree compleatly with teh above post, Dont rush into a kin expecting everyone to drop what there doing instantly. If he had waited 20 minuts, without complaining, several members would have helped him. The /o chat was going off for officers to help him as well, But when were busy were busy, Theres no getting around it.



Another member a longer time back, Had an issue fitting in, much like my above co-plainer (yay math joke). They were always quiet, 2 - 3 montsh in teh kin, never asked for much of anything, all the kin records show taht tehy not only gave crit mats for items tehy asked for but an obscene amount of gold to help out other players. They in Truth, did there part to help the kin.

But, They never talked. which led to a serious problem when they needed help. No one knew who tehy were, No one had ever seen them talk, And of course, only 5 officers would have acess to the records that show that tehy helped alot behind teh sceans, Unfortunatly those 5 officers were never on in her timezone, leaving me. Which Of course i did what i could, and inevetiably saved the situation, But It took time.

This is another example of why its important to speak up, In my Kin we have a large player base, its often argued were the worst kin ever simply because were the largest on server, and were not always quiet about it. It is commonly argued that members get lost in our droves, Which is true for those who lack the ability to socialize and break out of there shell. We have several groups within groups, and tehn more groups to cover those groups, All of them created within teh kin by players who got to know eachother, And yes, they will give things to there "friends" before you, unless you make an attempt to become there friend, or even quite possible start your own group of friends.

There are many kin typs, and regardless of whether your kin is huge, or your kin is small, Every kin has a social barrier that you must break, You and only you can determin if thats possable, Some kins may be better suited for your personality, And some kins may not be. Its amazing that most people find something tehy dont agree with, and think that vocalizing it publicly makes them look good. When in reality it makes them look just as stupid, Im guilty of it, hell i think we all put our foot in our mouth from time to time, I get mine out in teh game, saves me in rl. xD

I am sorry but why would making my own kin filled with alts be pathetic as you say?!?
I wanted to have a kin house, it is right next to my own house and I love having more space to decorate and put my furniture in. I have no interest in anyone ever "joining" my kin.
My 2 raiding 75s are in proper kin and that is the way I like it to be.

And what people already mentioned - not everyone wants to be an officer. I led guilds/orgs in some other games and I was an officer in almost every damn kin I joined in LotRO in past 4 years. It is tiring. It is commitment and obligation I have no patience for anymore. I just want to feel free to play my game how I want and be spared of dramas, organizations and decisions.

So think about it when you want to promote someone. I would have turned down some people if they didnt come as needy or desperate or were so convinced they offer me a great honor I simply had no heart to tell them its actually a hassle for me.

First off, Please don't take my comment about owning your own kin of alts as pathetic too seriously, I was making jest of a few players on my server who boast about being kin leaders, when in reality they simply have alts in a kin, It doesn't make you a kin leader, It does in title, But to me The general concern seems that a kin leader actually attempts to lead, To do that you need someone other then yourself, Unless your crazy like me, In which case holding conversations with yourself is perfectly acceptable.

As for your next statement I absolutely agree, I positively think that a decision to make someone an officer shouldn't be taken lightly. It is an Imposition, And while it may be harder to promote officers By telling them all the bad things about there job, its needed.

I believe i Also said in that paragraph something very fitting to this.

Use your members’ abilities. you are not superman, you never will be, and face it, if your kin doesn’t have members, your not a kin leader (aside from the obvious make your own kin filled with alts.generally one has to lead others, not themselvs for this forum to apply.) work with them, TRUST them. if you understand the limits of those you work with, you possess the ability to accurately, and decisively compensate through many different forms of approach. Keep a level head, and remember, if your officers, can only do so much, its not there fault, its there strength. work with them, and help them see what you want. a true leader inspires greatness from even the most wayward of players.

We as kin leaders tho cannot predict your state of mind as an officer, We don't know when you have reached your breaking point. As far as we see, There is an intelligent, experienced person, who knows his way around a kin. We will most defiantly single you out of a crowd if we have our head on straight. But. Its not our job to know when you have had enough. It is your job to tell us. While we as leaders Must know your limits we will never find out untill you show us.

-
I cannot stress enough when I say, NEVER promote someone to officer if they beg for it, ask for it, or appear needy, You are setting yourself up, And it is way easier to tell them No then to have to fix the problems they create later.


You as a player are entitled to play to your experience, And as a fellow player, Not only do I value it, I apologize if I insulted you in any way. We are all entitled to play Lotro to our Pleasure.

So,

Whats a good ratio of officers to kinsmen?

What should i look for in an officer?

What the hell is an officer?


Well, to start you on the right path, lets ask you a personal question. -What typ of kin do you lead?

Well since im not here personally asking you this, lets assume a few variables.

Lets assume for starters, That you say you want to run the largest kin In Lotro, Nobel cause, Great benefits, And the dental plan is amazing right?

I would tell you simply, for every page of members you should have 1 Officer for every hour your kin operated you should have 2 officers online not including you or your succesor.

But wait, I know nothing of your kin, I know nothing of your background, How many members you have, How many Your capable of getting. These are Personal factors, Something no other person in the world can factor in, Not me, not your officers, Not another kin leader, Or your pastor.

To lead a kin, of any size, im sure most kin leaders will tell you it takes a gut feeling, Somewhere deep down we know when we found a good one. Try opening up, It isnt a simple math equasion, Its not always a set list of qualitys we seek.

You should always know the person you want to promote, sometimes that can be difficult, I for example run a 24/7 kin, How the hell do i promote an officer in a timezone That im always asleep for, I work, im not going to skip work because i need to promote an officer. If you cant get to know them personnaly, See if someone you trust can. I have several senior officers that can tell me promote so and so, and ill do it no questions asked, even if i dont knwo the player myself. Its a layer of trust, Once you find what you want in an officer, train your officers to seek it, And suprisingly This works a double goal, Bceause when you are long gone and no longer leading, they will already traditionnaly only be looking for certain typs of officers, based on teh profiles you taught them.

You dont neccisarily have to copy paste yourself to your officers, But it helps if you can trust them.

But to truly give advice on promoting officers, to the few who have asked me, I would haev to honestly tell you i cant. I can tell you what i look for in an officer, But upon inspection of my officers, you would see very few similarities, Simply because we cannot Predict nature, Only account for its touch. We can only cope with teh tools were given, we cant make too many more (altho i once mcgyver'D a Ban hammer out of tears and blood from a troll, mixed witha few stiks, and some duct tape).

Good luck mates And keep pushin it!

Great topic here , i read it all from the start , realy good advices.
I also try to help people in my kinship...

cheers !

Its been over a year since ive started my kinship. Following my advice above we have managed to maintain our stance as the largest kin on Dwarrowdelf, And we have Started And maintained (On and off ) The alliance of Dwarrowdelf.

While looking over the way things have evolved the last few months, I've decided to finnaly Add something more to this post.

Under of course the topic of Officers. and leadership.

Now, What happens when you spent a year wearing yourself thin building your kin? What happens when you feel Tired and worn out, You need a breather, You can Choose several things, Go on that break (Remember 30 days and you can be usurped by your successor). You can give your successor kin leadership. You can give an officer kin leadership, Hell you could even sell, or disband the kin.

Now Of all of those, There's a couple that work well if you ever intend on coming back.

When choosing my officers, I made it a point to choose the ones that could lead with Brilliance, and could if needed single handed, run the kin without me. But, There was one catch, The officers i chose were old guild leaders, Old kin leaders, Old community leaders of some kind. They had previously been in my shoes, And didnt want back in them anytime soon. They were content being officers, and enjoying the luxury of not making big decisions on there own. So what the hell was i going to do when i needed to take 3 months off to get a break? Well i couldent leave any one person in charge. But outwardly i couldent exactly leave the kin without a leader.

Outward appearance is everything in a large guild. even a small one. So I actually ended up giving my head officer leadership of kin, But Thats not the way the kin was ran.

They managed to run things as a group making counsel like decisions, Because i had spent the last year working with them, They knew how i operated, They used the forums to ask harder questions, And they stayed in contact with me through those means. When i came back our kin had not only grown, it had achived that evasive End game raiding status we didnt have when i left.

But super long story short. It doesent matter who is the " Leader" of "Your" kin As long as the officers around you can be trusted and worked with, It makes a huge difference when you need that well deserved break.

If your officers can lead and operate the kin in the same manner you do, when your not there, Then you in my opinion have been able to achieve real kin leadership.

so, October rolls around, and its that time of year, when ppl get tied up in expansions, and big things can happen if given the right motivation. And that seems to be just what happened.

Keeping up with my own beliefs that a kin should have an active kin leader, I made possibly one of the hardest decision for a kin founder to make, I handed leadership to my successor, and not just as a test.


Now, when looking at the circumstances, this january our kin will be 2 years old, and we maintain quite a healthy list of kin members, we are still the largest active kin on Dwarrowdelf (we boot after 25 inactive days) and if anything we have grown larger this month, But I made a decision that reflected several choices.


The kin needed new direction
The kin successor needed to lead

and i was getting less and less involved in lotro, I run a multi game guild, and sometimes, Im needed more in other divisions of our guild.

So knowing that the time was right i made the decision, and things couldent have gone better.

This is the final point in a kin leaders carer in a single kin The turn point that determines weather the kin can go on successfully without him or not. and it wasnt a spur of the moment decision.

This is a decision that took 6 months to complete, and it involved allot of patience.

I had to start by identifying which of my sr officers was most capable of leading the kin, And the trouble with that was she was the one who didnt want to ever lead the kin.

I had to then step away from the picture, and step back, allowing them to operate on there own without my input, No direction no guidance. I literally created a new account, and played in my own kin, watching them evolve. Without letting them know i was really there, It follows an old saying id rather train you on my boat, so i can help you fix it if you put holes in it, Then give you your own boat and watch you drown.

I watched them create a council of sorts, that allowed them to manage the kin in a group, They discussed all things in a group before making final decisions, They all had faith that they had my support, because from day one i encouraged them to make big decisions on there own for the sake of the kin (No micro managing). It evolved, and it showed its weaknesses of course, so a few times i came on and pushed them further in the right direction, But only when it wasn't necessary and always when it could be overlooked as a someone just giving praise.

After about 6 months on and off of watching them evolve, It became clear to me that not only were they ready, But they had managed to take this kin further then i could have sitting in the leader chair.

This decision was rather easy when i consider the group i was with, But, to be completely honest, In all my years of guild management, in many mmo's Ive never found a group so capable as the one i have on lotro, So in a million ways, This journey has been a complete joy, And its gone right in every way.


In conclusion, I wish you the best of luck in your kins, and i hope that your experience is as rewarding as mine, and as evolved as mine has become.

An organization I participate with states right out as one of the leadership principles-your job is to find your replacement.

Best wishes to you all for success in all your endeavours, in Lotro and out.