Thread: Stopped at Moria

First I tried with a Champion, then a Warden thinking that the easier solo play would help, but now with both characters I have been frustrated with Moria. Please understand that this is just my opinion, I am sure others feel differently. But Moria is just a frustrating place for me to quest. It is just too difficult to figure out how to get to the end quest location, going up and down endless stairs, twisty paths, etc. And at least at my level (52) there don't appear to be either a large number of fellowship quests, where hopefully someone knows how to get where, nor a large number of players in Moria. This is the only place in Lotro that I have felt this way. I've really enjoyed other areas, such as Eregion, North Downs, the areas around Bree etc. Is it possible to bypass Moria? Or at least to get through it quickly? It's just depressing how much time I spend fighting through an area to get to an end quest location only to find that it's not the right way to go.

The same topic came up a couple times lately. The mega-dungeon now looks extra frustrating because LOTRO lowered the aggro range to somewhere where you can go anywhere outside Moria but nowhere inside without having to trash mobs all the time. It doesn't help at all that the 2D map and quest guide facilities have been upgraded in no way when the environment relevant to pathfinding became 3D.

But you can walk out into Lothlorien pretty soon. Just try it and see what you get.

You can level some more on the epic storyline book 1, in Forochel, Goblin-Town and beat up a couple Angmarians for rep and profit, not to mention Eregion of course.

Some parts of moria are a nightmare to navigate and a 2d map is completely inadequate for. The first region you enter and the foundations of stone are the worst imo. For most of the other areas there are pathways visible from the map that make getting around much easier.

The maps do so little since they are 2D and cant really zoom in that much when you are in a 3D place with stairs.

I hear this a lot, but I think in no small part it's players treating it the same way they treated everything else.

First, I don't use the quest tracker, but I've turned it on a few times in Moria since I heard it works differently here and I'm curious like that. I didn't notice some special disfunctionality, it still pretty much points exactly in the bird's eye direction you need to go just like every other zone. The fact that the ground path isn't a flat line should be obvious given that you're in a cave. If you use it at all I advise taking note of the location on the map and plotting a course, not blindly following the arrow.

Second, understand that you need not fight every single thing down here. In the first area, cave crawlers and the smaller bugs are not hard aggro, cave crawlers just threaten you and the bugs don't do jack. That really only leaves orcs/goblins and the bigger bugs (found only in certain areas to boot) to contend with and since most of those center around very obvious camps of them, they aren't a problem.

Nevermind that you can skip that whole area if you want to, it's very easy to get level 52 if not higher before entering Moria, plenty enough to let you skip straight to Deep Descent or even Water Works if you choose. Silverlode is, I grant, confusing at first, but just remember to follow the tracks for the most part. That helps a lot.

Water Works is wide open, easy to navigate, and again, not every critter is flat out aggressive. Toads, lizards, etc, all just make noise unless you linger. Only salamanders, spiders, and turtles will really hinder you. There's a camp of orcs but that's out of the way for the most part. No big deal.

Later areas are a lot more wide open, albeit sometimes still with dropoffs, barricades, or other hindrances you must cope with, but often you can at least see where you want to go and it's just a matter of finding the safe path over. But by level 55 or so, I really hope you're not pretending the post-endgame xpac area is supposed to be a cakewalk? A few epic quests (including the solo parts) do indeed take quite a bit of fighting and trekking to get through, but hey, that's the way things are here. If it really gets to you find a buddy, it makes it a breeze. Otherwise just understand that some of them are an hour long undertaking with all fighting, trekking, and item location requirements considered. Again, this is advanced content, it's meant to challenge you and break you out of your comfort zone.

The other side areas vary but I found navigation in them to be no problem, fewer barriers in general, sometimes environmental hazards but they're plainly marked as such. I enjoyed the challenge. Redhorn, for example, not so hard to navigate, rife with orcs but by now you should be used to this and prepared to cope.

Also do not neglect your equipment here. You should be doing the epic quest chain as it gives some very nice (for the level) pieces of gear, and filling in gaps as your budget allows with the best crafted stuff available to you.

Getting to 58 is sufficient to visit Dimril Dale if you choose. For sure it can be refreshing to see the light of day again, but be aware that you will not get the challenge ratcheted down. Forced triple mob pulls and very fast respawns are typical here. Once you get acquaintaince with the Galadhrim you can do a bunch of fetch quests and other assorted less-than-combative type quests for all that's worth, but there's only so many and you'll only want to do this for so long. Eventually you work your way to Mirkwood which is not typically better thought of than Moria in terms of kicking you in the tail.

So in summary the best choice is really to take a deep breath and change your outlook and strategy here. Open field horseback questing won't fly. This does not have to be a bad thing. Don't make it a bad thing. It is, if anything, an answer to the common gripe that much of the game is too easy and levels you too fast. But if you really can't stand it, you can get out in about 5 levels, and you can gain that in about 2 or 3 zones fairly easily with a few side trips to other zones as the epic quest requires, especially if you keep pushing out skirmish dailies.

It is possible to run through Moria to Lothlorien on the other side of the mountains, but as you travel further east in Moria, the mobs become more difficult. A low 50's character soloing all the way through to the other side is not going to be easy, and it will get tougher once you are outside again, you'll be in an area designed for characters in the high 50's.

Moria is a hard zone in general, even more so when it's your first character and you don't know what to expect. Lots of tunnels and passages that don't give you much space to go around mobs you'd prefer not to fight them. On the other hand, it is fitting. Moria is supposed to have an army or orcs and goblins inside it. It isn't a place where free people entered casually, Durin's Bane wasn't the only reason why Moria had such a dark and dangerous reputation within the setting of the book.

OP, I understand exactly where you're coming from.

In some ways it does get better after your third or fourth character through; but only in some ways. This is mainly just from stumbling around with the first few that you finally start memorizing the place so you don't get lost as much. The other reason is because you have likely "learned" enough of the quests so you can do a number of them simultaneously.

However, Moria doesn't change from the grind that it is. People can come up with excuses for whatever situation but the basic fact of Moria is that it's designed as a grindfest. This is obvious because the quests make you keep going into the exact same areas over and over which requires you to kill the exact same mobs over and over. The Silvertine Lodes is a perfect example of this. Throughout quest chains you will have to go to the same damn place and do basically the exact same thing multiple times. "Go kill 20 goblins and come back. Now go kill the boss goblin. Now you need to go back and kill another boss goblin. This time you need to go find some maps in the exact same area but you'll still need to kill the same exact 30 goblins to do it." That is the overriding quest structure of Moria and I absolutely hate it. As I said, people have tried to make excuses for this but they can't hide the fact that the majority of Moria quests are absolutely horrible.

I've taken three characters into Moria so far and not a single one of them has "finished" it. The first character is stuck in limbo and I haven't done anything other than use the character for crafting since. The second I took a bit farther but became frustrated with finding a group for 2.4.7. I leveled him up a bit more elsewhere and left Moria at level 58 for Lothlorien. The third character hasn't really gotten that far in and I have instead decided to work a bit more on the Volume 1 epic quests which I didn't feel like finishing previously with this character like I had already done with the other two.

I'll state it again. I hate grinding with a passion and too much of Moria is pure grind for me to ever like it. It's a real travesty considering how well done the artwork, music and overall atmosphere is. If they had put even a fraction of the effort into the quests that they did with the artwork, music and atmosphere, Moria would easily be the crown jewel of the game.

Once update 2 goes live, I will probably do what I can do blow through the epic Moria quests on my characters and then forget Moria even exists until I'm basically forced to do it again with my next character. However, I'll probably make sure any subsequent characters are overleveled before stepping into Moria in order to blow through it as fast as possible.

I'm with the OP, Moria SUX! I hate mazes, always have and always will and Moria is a maze to me. After 2 weeks in there I am still trying to find some damn Southern Overlook. I actually like doing quests which makes it all the more frustrating as shortly I will be looking for the fast way out of Moria. My dislike has less to with the mobs than the repetitive trips and the inability to figue how to get to the quest spot.

It's a grind fest and a Maze = no fun.

Originally Posted by Tatuaje

I'm with the OP, Moria SUX! I hate mazes, always have and always will and Moria is a maze to me. After 2 weeks in there I am still trying to find some damn Southern Overlook. I actually like doing quests which makes it all the more frustrating as shortly I will be looking for the fast way out of Moria. My dislike has less to with the mobs than the repetitive trips and the inability to figue how to get to the quest spot.

It's a grind fest and a Maze = no fun.

Did you even look at the map? The southern overlook is like a 1 minute walk from Dolven View and I don't think you even have to fight anything to get there. There's definitely no maze leading to it, it's a straight walk.

Regardless, I notice a lot of the complaints center on the entry area which is the most cave-like. Why not just do what quests you can, skip the rest, and move on to Water Works, Crossroads, 21st hall, Redhorn, etc etc? Some of those areas are a little more battle intensive but navigation is quite easy and they have quite a lot fewer bottomless pits as well. It's only one zone of a much larger area and after you do the epic quests in that area you can skip as much as you want. I don't think there's any way you'll do all of Moria on-level regardless.

Originally Posted by DrnknElf

The Silvertine Lodes is a perfect example of this. Throughout quest chains you will have to go to the same damn place and do basically the exact same thing multiple times. "Go kill 20 goblins and come back. Now go kill the boss goblin. Now you need to go back and kill another boss goblin. This time you need to go find some maps in the exact same area but you'll still need to kill the same exact 30 goblins to do it." That is the overriding quest structure of Moria and I absolutely hate it. As I said, people have tried to make excuses for this but they can't hide the fact that the majority of Moria quests are absolutely horrible.

By the time you get to Moria, you should be used to this structure. You will find it in every Eriador region. Most of us can think of lower level camps earlier in our gaming experience that as exactly like this Goblin camp.

Here is one that a friend of mine with an alt ran into with in the past week. Maybe you remember it. In Evendim, you go across Lake Ever Swim. There is an elf camp. Those two elves send you multiple times up in the wolfman camp. Plus there is the treasure quest chain that takes you to a digging spot past the top end of the camp.

I could go on. One is enough.

I love exploring and dongeon crawling. I always wished LoTRO had more dongeon exploration.

Moria isnt a dongeon. It's an enormous zone with a cealing on it instead of a sky. The mobs are harder in there (highier AF?) and the quest are all too drawn out all over the place. THe whole place reflects the gloomy design and kinda bums you out. As inteneded.

Luckily I had a dedicated friend who instisted ondragging me through Moria. Now we only have a few quests left to cover just for the sake of my quest partner's OCD. Coming outside to Lothlorien was only slightly better. I still have not ventured into Mirkwood yet. I felt that Endewaith was a deffinate improvement over Moria and Lothlorien.

Moria is dark, confusing, cramped, and overall a pain in the ***. I think it's designed to be that way, so in that respect, the devs succeeded. But it is really not a terribly "fun" place for most players, and even less so if you are taking it solo. If you can find even one other person to quest with in there, it makes a ton of difference. Try asking on glff (if your server has a glff channel) and see if you get any takers.

Lacking that, you may want to see if you can get a higher level player to at least lead you (escort you) to the stable in the 1st hall, which is the exit out of Moria towards Lothlorien. There are several small camps where you can get quite a few quests out there, some of which you will have to do in order to gain access to Lothlorien proper. The thing is, you may be a few levels too low to be able to get those quests, I'm really not positive. But if nothing else, you want to get that 1st Hall stable so that in the future, you can travel from 21st Hall (or anywhere else in Moria you've been) to the Moria exit without having to fight your way there every time. (If you can find a captain who can summon you right to the stable in 1st Hall, that would be ideal).

If you're lvl 52 and don't like Moria, then avoid it. Other than the epic line (all of which will be soloable come next book update), there is nothing in Moria you "have" to do. If you prefer outdoor zones, then focus for now in Eregion, wrap up any loose ends you have in Angmar, etc. By the time you hit 55, you'll definitely be able to head to the outer part of Lothlorien and do those quests for access to the Golden Wood.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

By the time you get to Moria, you should be used to this structure. You will find it in every Eriador region. Most of us can think of lower level camps earlier in our gaming experience that as exactly like this Goblin camp.

Here is one that a friend of mine with an alt ran into with in the past week. Maybe you remember it. In Evendim, you go across Lake Ever Swim. There is an elf camp. Those two elves send you multiple times up in the wolfman camp. Plus there is the treasure quest chain that takes you to a digging spot past the top end of the camp.

I could go on. One is enough.

However, this is but one small part of the region and only one or maybe two sets of quests. For Moria it's the whole place essentially and just about every set of of quests. That is the difference. You won't hear me complaining about those quests in Evendim (even if I don't always do them on every character) because that's only a small part.

I have no problem with a small part of a region being like that. You can do it or skip it as you please with no real consequences. You can't do that in Moria if you are going to be doing many of the quests. Almost everywhere you go (outside of areas controlled by the Free Peoples) is a grind and too many of the quests make you keep going back into the same grind over and over. To make the comparison similar, you would have to make approximately 75% of the quests in Evendim take place inside the Guaradan camp. I'd bet if that was the case you wouldn't see many people questing in Evendim.

What makes this worse overall is that Moria is the only real area for questing in for a number of levels. Even if 75% of the Evendim quests took place in the Guaradan camp, you could completely skip the region and not do a single quest in it because you have other areas you can quest in instead. Sure, you still have some epic quests which take place in Evendim but none of them take place in the Guaradan camp.

Originally Posted by DrnknElf

However, this is but one small part of the region and only one or maybe two sets of quests. For Moria it's the whole place essentially and just about every set of of quests. That is the difference. You won't hear me complaining about those quests in Evendim (even if I don't always do them on every character) because that's only a small part.

I have no problem with a small part of a region being like that. You can do it or skip it as you please with no real consequences. You can't do that in Moria if you are going to be doing many of the quests. Almost everywhere you go (outside of areas controlled by the Free Peoples) is a grind and too many of the quests make you keep going back into the same grind over and over. To make the comparison similar, you would have to make approximately 75% of the quests in Evendim take place inside the Guaradan camp. I'd bet if that was the case you wouldn't see many people questing in Evendim.

What makes this worse overall is that Moria is the only real area for questing in for a number of levels. Even if 75% of the Evendim quests took place in the Guaradan camp, you could completely skip the region and not do a single quest in it because you have other areas you can quest in instead. Sure, you still have some epic quests which take place in Evendim but none of them take place in the Guaradan camp.

To be fair, you'd also have to give Evendim about quadruple the quest density. I don't think I did a quarter of the quests in Moria before I was able to advance to Dimril Dale, and I actually liked Moria. I usually do almost all the quests in Evendim due to lack of much choice.

You can easily skip the repetitive quests in Moria if you want. Do a couple there and move along, several areas have quests that are far less "go back there, kill 10 more goblins."

Ironically enough, Dimril Dale itself is almost exclusively that kind of quest. "Kill 20 orcs. Now go kill 10 more orcs while you pick up rocks. Now go kill 8 orcs while you set fires. Now go loot 10 items from orcs. Now go kill 10 wargs living amongst the orcs. Now go kill 20 more orcs! Come back in an hour so you can kill more orcs and set more fires."

Only complaint I really see is that no matter where you are in Moria, it's all still a cave. Sure the zones are quite different and generally impressive but some people probably get burned out on 5+ levels in a cavern. I think Moria is great but I wouldn't think it unfair if they opened South Downs or something to be a lower 50s zone to visit when you need a break from Moria.

Originally Posted by Hagen13

Did you even look at the map? The southern overlook is like a 1 minute walk from Dolven View and I don't think you even have to fight anything to get there. There's definitely no maze leading to it, it's a straight walk.

Regardless, I notice a lot of the complaints center on the entry area which is the most cave-like. Why not just do what quests you can, skip the rest, and move on to Water Works, Crossroads, 21st hall, Redhorn, etc etc? Some of those areas are a little more battle intensive but navigation is quite easy and they have quite a lot fewer bottomless pits as well. It's only one zone of a much larger area and after you do the epic quests in that area you can skip as much as you want. I don't think there's any way you'll do all of Moria on-level regardless.

Dude - yes I have looked at the map. If I could see a way there I would go there. Why don't I skip the quests I have and go elswhere - it juuuuussstttt might be because it's my first time there and have no idea what is there and what to look for. Most of the places you mentioned are not even lit up on my map. I'm still working on what has to be done and can be skipped. Rather than going with elitiset type comments, provide a bit of contructive help. Know of any good maps of the area that might help? It would appear I'm not the only one that has issues with the layout. As a person with little to no 3d perception and a 2d map of a multi demensional area, it's incredibly difficult for me to see how to get a round. As I said - I have no issues with the quests, I have damn rings all over the Dolven and Sliverstone (sp) map - getting to them is the problem.

Originally Posted by GlorfindelAsfaloth

Is it possible to bypass Moria? Or at least to get through it quickly?

One does not simply walk through Moria...

Originally Posted by Tatuaje

Dude - yes I have looked at the map. If I could see a way there I would go there. Why don't I skip the quests I have and go elswhere - it juuuuussstttt might be because it's my first time there and have no idea what is there and what to look for. Most of the places you mentioned are not even lit up on my map. I'm still working on what has to be done and can be skipped. Rather than going with elitiset type comments, provide a bit of contructive help. Know of any good maps of the area that might help? It would appear I'm not the only one that has issues with the layout. As a person with little to no 3d perception and a 2d map of a multi demensional area, it's incredibly difficult for me to see how to get a round. As I said - I have no issues with the quests, I have damn rings all over the Dolven and Sliverstone (sp) map - getting to them is the problem.

Despite the fact that you're less than friendly about it and you kinda deserve to just be lost, I'll point a few things out to you.

First, don't load your quest track to the max. That doesn't help. Focus on one quest at a time unless you KNOW you can knock out multiple at a time.

Now that you've pared your list down to one quest, before you start running like a dope in whatever direction the arrow points, open your quest journal entry for that quest. Read the entire quest. Do it again. Digest it. What does it say? Did you really read it, or did you just scan out "collect 10 orc turds"? Do you know where it tells you to go, and what to expect?

Now open the map. With only one quest being tracked, that shiny ring or shaded area should stand out nicely. Now consider what you already know about the area and compare it to where the map indicates its at. Do you have any knowledge of how to get there directly? If so, you may just be set. If not, at least see if you can make heads or tails of what the map might suggest about terrain.

Along the way, feel free to open the map again and see if it makes more sense now that you have a personal view of the terrain. Might just help you out.

For all this blustering of yours, you really should be honest and admit you did not do the above. The quest you first mentioned requires that you walk along a straight path out of Dolven View to a rather conspicous area that, no surprise, is south of the big honkin' orc camp that I doubt you have failed to notice.

As to not having these areas revealed yet...well, are you waiting for an engraved invitation to explore? THERE'S your problem! You aren't the least bit curious what's found in that unexplored region, or what that huge building over there is?

But a final tip: go to google. Look up lotro wiki. Look up Moria. Map of the whole place, exactly where you might suspect a map of the whole place would be found.

I really am not trying to belittle you, but you aren't even taking basic steps to improve your situation. Moria is not, as many seem to think, particularly 3D; there are very few areas where you'll actually be under something else or over something else, in most cases there is considerable apparent height but few or no actual layers such that representation in 2D is just about as good as it was anywhere else in the world. The map of Trollshaws, for example, reveals about as much about the region as the maps of Moria. But you should not be relying on maps first, you should be relying on what you actually see, and you should preferably be observing while you move around so you remember what goes where.

For that matter, most of the important paths are fairly simple. The path from Dolven View to Crossroads is down the stairs (the big conspicuous stairs that can't be missed) and north on the road at the bottom until you reach a dwarf settlement. The path from Dolven View to Deep Descent is straight south out of Dolven View itself, across a bridge, until you see a dwarf settlement (it's about a 30 second walk, no joke). From there to Water Works is pretty much just follow the tracks south until you see carved halls instead of cave wall.

I can understand not being born with full comprehension of the zone. I guess the sticking point is that I don't quite get griping about it on the forums rather than feeling a little sheepish about not wrapping my mind around something, and resolving to do some exploring and figure it out myself. Nevermind, ya know, wanting to enjoy the huge game world and being curious about what's down that road. It's not like it's actually scary or I'm really risking my life by doing so.

First, please understand that everyone is different and like/hate different things. I am the OP in this thread and just spent more time in Moria and I think I have some useful suggestions for those who are less than happy there.

When first entering Moria (and any new area in Moria) grab all the quests that are available. Then ignore them. Go entirely for the epic quest line. To me, these were much more straight forward than the other quests, and as a bonus, by following the epic quest and grabbing the others, I found that I was satisfying many of the other quests while just doing the epic quest line. Second, Turbine are you listening here?, get someone to take you to the 21 Hall, or better, buy the "Return to 21 Hall" from the Lotro store. I sincerely feel that Turbine should have included this with everyone who enters Moria. Without it, I was stuck using my Home map for a single place in Moria. With it, I could always get back to 21 Hall and use my Home map for some other location, like Great Delving. By doing this, I leveled up twice and made it to much better locations within Moria, Waterworks, 21 Hall, etc. I guess my chief complaint here is that the initial Moria locations are so different from the rest of Lotro plus you have no easy way to get in/out of Moria. Turbine should also have swift travel from Rivendell and/or Echad Duinan. YMMV, but doing this got me past what were to me the worst parts of Moria (and Lotro, for that matter). Once in the 21 Hall, navigation was much easier. And by following the easier to find epic quest line I satisfied many other quests, giving me lots of experience as well as LI experience. Good Luck to all!

The eastern half of Moria is much better but that doesn't solve the problems of a) getting there and b) getting the "required" things done in the Western and Southern sectors.

Myself I walked out the Eastern gate and sacrificed my 'return home' location on the beginning of Lothlorien. Now I'll level to 55 (minimum level required for Lothlorien quests) in Forochel and the end of Book 1, then go for Loth. But note that the first quests of Lothlorien rep are - in Western Moria

Originally Posted by GlorfindelAsfaloth

First I tried with a Champion, then a Warden thinking that the easier solo play would help, but now with both characters I have been frustrated with Moria. Please understand that this is just my opinion, I am sure others feel differently. But Moria is just a frustrating place for me to quest. It is just too difficult to figure out how to get to the end quest location, going up and down endless stairs, twisty paths, etc. And at least at my level (52) there don't appear to be either a large number of fellowship quests, where hopefully someone knows how to get where, nor a large number of players in Moria. This is the only place in Lotro that I have felt this way. I've really enjoyed other areas, such as Eregion, North Downs, the areas around Bree etc. Is it possible to bypass Moria? Or at least to get through it quickly? It's just depressing how much time I spend fighting through an area to get to an end quest location only to find that it's not the right way to go.

I remember when I was in the Moria beta we were saying, "If you don't like getting lost, you won't like Moria." Personally I enjoy it, a complete change from the outdoor wide-open spaces. But until you break out the other side into Lothlorien (lvl 55 at the earliest) there isn't much you can do to escape.

Originally Posted by opurt

I remember when I was in the Moria beta we were saying, "If you don't like getting lost, you won't like Moria." Personally I enjoy it, a complete change from the outdoor wide-open spaces. But until you break out the other side into Lothlorien (lvl 55 at the earliest) there isn't much you can do to escape.

You should clarify that you can walk out of Moria into the beginning of Lothlorien all right at level 50 or whatever. You can't walk further into the "protected" zone without doing the quests there that require level 55.

But what you can do is level to 55 outside of Moria, then pick up those Lothlorien quests and go back into Moria doing the Loth rep quests and the epic storyline and assorted other Moria stuff all in one run. That cuts down significantly on the movement expenses in Western Moria where you have extensive mob-blocking all over the hallways.

Someone mentioned leveling up to 55 partly in Forochel? Are there quests higher than 49 there?

Originally Posted by GlorfindelAsfaloth

Someone mentioned leveling up to 55 partly in Forochel? Are there quests higher than 49 there?

I think very few but the context was that you have a level 50 if you "skip" Moria, so the late 40ties are useful for a while.

Originally Posted by GlorfindelAsfaloth

Someone mentioned leveling up to 55 partly in Forochel? Are there quests higher than 49 there?

Do quests in Forochel, east Angmar, eastern Misty Mountains, and Eregion, then do the epic quest line. I got to 52 doing just the epic quest line after doing about half the quests in Forochel and skipping most of east Angmar, and skipped almost all of Eregion (which is a shame, I wanted to do Eregion but I felt I'd put off Moria for too long). I imagine doing every quest available outside of Moria would easily put you at 54 or 55, nevermind if you did plenty of skirmishes to supplement that.

55 would basically put you at the tail end of Moria, which is generally considered a lot less confusing area to quest in. In any case, that's also the level you could get quests in Dimril Dale (though completing them vs level 60 mobs is another story). I'm sure you can handle 3 levels of Moria, no?

Three toons later....

I pretty much know my way around the basic areas of Moria.

A lot of them are closer than you think, as others here have mentioned, if you know the path. It's "knowing" the path, that is hard.

My two bits, assuming you don't want to simply skirmish to early 58s and then enter early Loth (which would be hard, and dangerous, solo, as the mobs are very quick to respawn and close together):

- pick out land marks. This will help you go "ok yes, I follow that line of torches up to Dolven View" and the like.

- pick an area to quest in, Anzermehkam, Orc Watch, whatever. Do quests only in that area, remove from your quest tracker ones that venture out. Remove from your quest log when running out of room, as well. Especially the group stuff. If you don't remove group stuffs, you end up with no room for solo quests. (Unless of course you are wanting to do the group stuffs, right then; then go pick them up.)

- when venturing between areas, use the slow goat (stable). Watch how it goes. Look for your land marks. Nothing will agro you on the goat. The worst problem I had was trying to combine navigation in a confusing map, with not getting killed at the same time. Until you either have been through the area several times, or had a 65 that can wander about a lot more freely, it'll be harder to learn the routes.

- Alt F10 at night turns on your light, adjust your gamma - to make areas that are dark and forbidding a little easier to see in

- if you find a NPC in the 'wild' that you dont have a quest for - make a note of it! literally. Write down the coords, note how you approached them... because, guess what? there's a quest for that. I always do this, not just in Moria, and it helps a lot. It also tends to give you the feeling that exploration is worth it.

- all else fails, get a kinmate/friend to duo with you a bit and help get through some quests. Just having company can make it a lot more fun (not to mention less repair bills).

Just be thankful you weren't around when Moria first went live, and no one knew where to go, there weren't any guides up yet, and there was no quest tracker.

Originally Posted by ppinkham

Just be thankful you weren't around when Moria first went live, and no one knew where to go, there weren't any guides up yet, and there was no quest tracker.

Ha ha! I remember those days!

Yep Moria blows, I just wonder if they wanted to purposely cause people to unsub and quit? Moria is that bad, that poorly thought out and tedious. What makes it worse is that it is not possible to skip Moria without losing crucial skills and traits. Moria has to be one of the biggest MMO blunders of all time, its hard to calculate how many subs they lost because of this zone.

For many Moria is it....the final straw, being stuck in a dark maze like cavern for weeks on end, with no hopes of grouping....just a long long solo grind through a very boring and mazelike dungeon. I really wanted to reach 65 so I could group regular, but I cannot suffer through Moria. I quit before at Moria, and I resub to see what has changed. I have unsubbed after 3 hours of playing again, I am still stuck in Moria and i MUST complete it just to get vital skills and traits. My initial plan upon resubbing was to just get out of Moria and skip it, unfortunately I cant get all my talents and skills without finishing Moria.

No game has ever done this......its incredible. I applaud your bull headedness in not addressing the problems with this zone for over a year now. Hopefully it continues to cost you subs and the next time you release an MMO your would be customers will remember this poor expansion and how you NEVER addressed the fundamental problems with it. I for one will never recommend this game to anyone, you dont deserve customers.

Originally Posted by Baldorn

Yep Moria blows, I just wonder if they wanted to purposely cause people to unsub and quit? Moria is that bad, that poorly thought out and tedious. What makes it worse is that it is not possible to skip Moria without losing crucial skills and traits. Moria has to be one of the biggest MMO blunders of all time, its hard to calculate how many subs they lost because of this zone.

For many Moria is it....the final straw, being stuck in a dark maze like cavern for weeks on end, with no hopes of grouping....just a long long solo grind through a very boring and mazelike dungeon. I really wanted to reach 65 so I could group regular, but I cannot suffer through Moria. I quit before at Moria, and I resub to see what has changed. I have unsubbed after 3 hours of playing again, I am still stuck in Moria and i MUST complete it just to get vital skills and traits. My initial plan upon resubbing was to just get out of Moria and skip it, unfortunately I cant get all my talents and skills without finishing Moria.

No game has ever done this......its incredible. I applaud your bull headedness in not addressing the problems with this zone for over a year now. Hopefully it continues to cost you subs and the next time you release an MMO your would be customers will remember this poor expansion and how you NEVER addressed the fundamental problems with it. I for one will never recommend this game to anyone, you dont deserve customers.

Moria is difficult, and Mirkwood afterwards is even more difficult, although I have to say once most people have levelled past Moria and come back for the many instances it is a blast. I am sure once I have levelled in ROI then all those Mirkwood instance I ran out of patience with will become much more fun. The high level content is aimed at raiders, some of us fit that category, some of us have no patience with dying a million times and start another alt.

Anyway looking at your previous posts Baldorn you are trolling, now go lie in a darkened room and calm down...

I hate moria. I am an outdoors person. I am surprised that skirmishes werent mentioned that much in previous replys. I try and get to a high enough level as i can and then enter. I quest till i get stuck or have fellowship quests and then move on to the next area. my hunter is 54 1/2 and Im pretty much stuck cause i have done alot of quests, so i am just going to do like 3 or 4 skirms to level out of there. Its dark, the mobs are boring and i hate having to run everywhere. I dont even bother wasting a few gold on a slow goat. cant wait till im out of moria. And Moria is confusing! I think the guy up there totally has the right to say that moria is a maze and the 2d map doesnt help no matter what you do! I have quit plenty of quests because id be right on top of a ring and the quest isnt anywhere! really irritating but oh well. thats what a 65 friend is for!

It's friggin Moria! The best part about it (even in a game) should be getting out! Come on, there HAS to be at least one really uncomfortable, difficult and staggeringly confusing part in a game. It used to be the Old Forest. Ya shoulda been there! Oh. Such awesomeness. The tears of the sad people were delicious.

If Moria didn't make people complain, I'd feel ripped off. Moria: Not For You!!!!!

Hehehehehehe. hehehehehe. heh.. heh.... oh.

But seriously, it's a horrible place because it was made by dwarves.

geez cheer up people moria is fun >.>

the maps: only bad one really is foundations of stone as its totally blank and looks like its just one huge cavern with nothing in it....its not, and im only questing there for my class trait. everywhere else you can easily find a route to wherever you need to go, even if its not a direct route. for example, when trying to get to the orc-watch, i had 2 choices (going from the dolven-view). i could follow the main road through zelem-melek then turn south (direct). however as there are no roads between the main one and the orc-watch, i would have been guessing the whole way and risked getting killed by a huge group of mobs as i didnt know the area at all. by zooming my map out however, i saw that the road south from dolven-view goes through the deep descent, then to the rotting cellar(i could follow the tracks in silvertine, or take a goat as i had fallen there from chamber of crossroads), then east through the flaming deeps and finally turned north to go through anazarmekhem and to the orc-watch. its a very roundabout way, but from looking at the map i knew there was a clearly discernible path to follow, rather than wandering through the unknown; plus, it was incredibly easy to figure out. besides, having to think about how to get places makes it more fun for me...but i like challenges so maybe thats why

running out of soloable quests: i got lucky on this one, my kinnies forced me to wait till level 50 before venturing into moria rather than rushing in at 45 like i wanted to. at 58 i still havent run out of quests to do and have cancelled probably like 50 quests or more due to outleveling; but ive still got soloable stuff to do. so just be patient and wait till 50, it pays off in the end

too dark: this was honestly the only problem i ever had with moria; then as i was fidgeting with my settings one day i discovered the ambient light feature, which was still by default at 0. when i turned this all the way up, WOW! the difference was incredible, i could actually tell the difference between the floor i was on and the cliff face accross from me, i could see everything without straining my eyes, it was like walking around with a miniature sun floating over my head. short version: find it (basic graphics, 1st one of the sliders at the bottom) and turn it up! just remember to turn it down when you go outside, i made the mistake of porting from moria to tinnudir on a bright sunny day and was nearly blinded :P

as a sidenote, there is -one- problem with the maps where they dont overlay properly and your red arrow displays in a slightly different point from where you actually are. this difference is only a few pixels or so on the map and it is constant, so you just need to get used to mentaly adjusting for it

The advocates continue to simply ignore the fact that many hallways that present only approaches to some place or other are guarded by mods you have to kill one by one.

That isn't in "any" of the books I remember.

And with the (now not so) new higher respawn rate you can do the same thing all over again when you get out? Fun? I think not.

Originally Posted by Darmokk

That isn't in "any" of the books I remember.

Sorry but that remark is a bit comical and applicable to 'everything' given the discussion is about a game.

Anyway, Moria is supposed to be confusing. Gandalf was disoriented if people want to get lore-stabby.

Moria is part of the narrative that parallels the Fellowship and is a compelling interpretation that captures the spirit of the lore about Moria.

No to any more simplifying of Moria and yes, Moria should be depressing and frustrating for all the right reasons.

Originally Posted by hallasan

Sorry but that remark is a bit comical and applicable to 'everything' given the discussion is about a game.

Anyway, Moria is supposed to be confusing. Gandalf was disoriented if people want to get lore-stabby.

Moria is part of the narrative that parallels the Fellowship and is a compelling interpretation that captures the spirit of the lore about Moria.

No to any more simplifying of Moria and yes, Moria should be depressing and frustrating for all the right reasons.

You still don't get it, do you?

Nobody has much of a problem with Moria being dark and confusing (although some are irritated by a map being supplied and then the map being semi-useless).

The problem is that it is grindy, and the reason why it is grindy are the mobs in the corridors that you have to wear down one by one. That's what is not in the books.

I just thought I'd copy this from a previous post. I think it pretty much covers the subject - as well as the popular retorts.

It starts with some basic advice regarding skipping Moria. Trust me, it can be done.

Originally Posted by TheREALify

[...] Run as many Forochel, Angmar and Eregion quests as you possibly can. It should be possible to reach level 54 or 55 prior to entering Moria. (You can collect the intro quests (that give you your first Legendary Weapon) as early as 45) If you can get to level 55, or very close to it, you can make one run from Durin's threshold all the way to the First Hall and escape to the Mirrormere. Most of the quests in the Nanduhirion area should be either Orange or Red to you. They will be difficult to solo and you may need some help to get traction out there. But at least you won't be in Moria!

Here are a few out-of-context answers to responses from fans of the zone that I've seen in this thread [and elsewhere] - in no particular order.

1) I'm glad you enjoy the zone. However, your enjoyment has little impact on others dislike of the zone. Perhaps we should simply agree to disagree on this point.

2) Skipping Moria is not my loss - It's Turbines. I lose nothing by not playing a zone I don't enjoy. My gain is incalculable.

3) Whether or not the zone is an accurate depiction of an area as described in the books is not in question. The answer has no bearing on my enjoyment (or lack thereof) of the zone.

4) Moria is neither "too difficult" nor "too challenging" - that is not the common complaint. "Too tedious" would be closer to the mark.

5) Yes, games should be fun. That is what I'm paying for.

Moria used to be hard and confusing but it has become one of my favorite places to level now that there is the quest radar and sites such as dynmap.ruslotro.com with pretty detailed maps. my advice would be to not enter moria until you are around level 52, starting lower than that is doable but will be painful because you will kill the mobs a lot slower. if you do the areas at the appropriate level you will not have as much frustration because the trash in corridors can just be run off they dont pose much of a threat.

Originally Posted by Darmokk

You still don't get it, do you?

Nobody has much of a problem with Moria being dark and confusing (although some are irritated by a map being supplied and then the map being semi-useless).

The problem is that it is grindy, and the reason why it is grindy are the mobs in the corridors that you have to wear down one by one. That's what is not in the books.

moria in-game takes place after the books pass through doesnt it? so the real question is how long after? i mean didnt the orcs/goblins basically end up flooding the place trying to get the fellowship? so why is it so difficult to believe that when we broke back into moria with the iron garrison the orcs/goblins became more aggressive? and besides, what path did gandalf and the fellowship even take through moria in the first place? seems to me they went up through the chamber of crossroadsand then east, through the first hall...then back south and over the bridge. so that leaves hm everything in the great delving (aside from the road), the flaming deeps, the water-works, the silvertine lodes, the redhorn lodes, like half of nud-melek if not more, and probably the upper corners of durins way - about what 75% (at a bare minimum) of moria - completely undescribed in the books so the only description in the books for those areas as far as i know is the dark windy pathways and such that applies to the whole darn super-region.

short version: the fellowship did not explore the entire mine like we did, they took the closest thing they could find to a road straight through. moria is fine and if you dont like the region then do like for any other region and skip it. or do like the fellowship and rush through to get out asap. up to you

Originally Posted by MonoLoco

moria in-game takes place after the books pass through doesnt it? so the real question is how long after? i mean didnt the orcs/goblins basically end up flooding the place trying to get the fellowship? so why is it so difficult to believe that when we broke back into moria with the iron garrison the orcs/goblins became more aggressive? and besides, what path did gandalf and the fellowship even take through moria in the first place? seems to me they went up through the chamber of crossroadsand then east, through the first hall...then back south and over the bridge. so that leaves hm everything in the great delving (aside from the road), the flaming deeps, the water-works, the silvertine lodes, the redhorn lodes, like half of nud-melek if not more, and probably the upper corners of durins way - about what 75% (at a bare minimum) of moria - completely undescribed in the books so the only description in the books for those areas as far as i know is the dark windy pathways and such that applies to the whole darn super-region.

short version: the fellowship did not explore the entire mine like we did, they took the closest thing they could find to a road straight through. moria is fine and if you dont like the region then do like for any other region and skip it. or do like the fellowship and rush through to get out asap. up to you

OK let's say hypothetically that Elrond discovers than Gandalf had left his phone in a Rivendell bathroom and goes after him with a couple of Elves. He tells the watcher so sod off and follows into Moria. As you correctly point out, by then it might have substantial population of Orcs from both Isengard and the east, plus the original goblins have been stirred up.

Then you still don't have to go through the same corridor with evenly placed orcs every aggro range*2 meters back and forth a million times to turn in some trinket with some dwarf somewhere.

I would have no problem hacking my way through these corridors a couple times. But the quest design in there doesn't mix well with hindered movement.

Skipping it isn't very practical because of the LI issue, rep and whatnot, plus you'd then go in too easy mode in Forochel or Eregion.

Moria is definitely intimidating the first time or two through, but I was able to cultivate a real appreciation for it. It's a space unlike any other and there is loads and loads of content in it to explore. Just take it slow.... it's easy to immerse yourself in it if you give it a fair chance. If all else fails you can always run away!

At least we have the quest tracker now, though too. Back before that was around the first time or two through was much tougher IMO.

I will admit it is a drag that there really is no alternative at many of those levels...