Thread: Capt PvMP, Worth it?

Hey all,

My capt just hit level 32 today, and I have to honestly say that it is frustrating that I must be 65 to PvMP. I know I can join earlier but its not really worth it until 65 right?

-Is it worth it to level up my captain to 65? I love the way captains play in groups and I love skirmish play as a captain. However, questing is not extremely enjoyable.

-I have seen several threads saying how captains are built for groups and not soloing. I understand this, but is leveling this painful for everyone?

-I plan on traiting HoH when I get higher for group play. Is this viable for PvMP as well?

Thanks for any and all responses,
Errond

P.S. I have just run out of quests in lone lands. Which quest pack would you recommend? Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Errond

My capt just hit level 32 today, and I have to honestly say that it is frustrating that I must be 65 to PvMP. I know I can join earlier but its not really worth it until 65 right?

I'm enjoying PvMP on my captain. I've had a hoot with kinmates out there, but rarely ever solo out there.

Originally Posted by Errond

-Is it worth it to level up my captain to 65? I love the way captains play in groups and I love skirmish play as a captain. However, questing is not extremely enjoyable.

Questing is what it is. I liked it cause I enjoyed following the storylines. Others hate it cause it's just dull tedium. Your mileage may vary.

Originally Posted by Errond

-I have seen several threads saying how captains are built for groups and not soloing. I understand this, but is leveling this painful for everyone?

How are you traited? When was the last level you got the best crafted armor, weapons, and jewelry? What level are you now?

Originally Posted by Errond

-I plan on traiting HoH when I get higher for group play. Is this viable for PvMP as well?

Leader of Men owns in raiding content. I've run 6-mans traited with each capstone, and one as a mixed build, and it really boils down to how you want to build, and knowing who you're grouping with - really, anything goes, as long as you don't suck at being a captain. For 3 mans, I like HoH cause I can heal there, but be expected to know how to use each of the three trait lines to their fullest, and how to gear appropriately, so you can be the wild card of the group.

Originally Posted by Errond

P.S. I have just run out of quests in lone lands. Which quest pack would you recommend? Thanks again.

Evendim is a good one, and it also gives you the Annuminas instance cluster. North Downs is pretty meh as a quest pack, until Fornost is overhauled, although North Downs does contain one of the new instances - I'm not sure if you need this quest pack for that instance or another one.

Thoughts on the other Zones:
Angmar - Has 3 level 50 6 mans, and a raid. It's also a good source of levels, and the instances give you the items needed for one of your legendary traits (so you don't have to buy them off of the AH or use SMs for them). Strongly recommended.

Enedwaith - Newest zone, contains the new raid, high level content. Useful if you're at level 65 and in a raiding kin. This zone may be the key to unlock the new instances - I'm not exactly clear on which zones do, and don't.

Forochel - Contains one of the new instances (again, not sure if you need this or another quest pack), a favorite of many I know to go level in.

Misty Mountains - Contains the Raid Helegrod. Otherwise another collection of quests. For a captain, this is the source of our 6 second Rally Cry, so you might as well consider doing the quests here to get the most bang for your buck.

Trollshaws - Nothing to exciting here, a lot of quests. I'm not sure if you need this for one of the new instances or not.

Expansions:
Moria - I would STRONGLY recommend picking this up if/when it goes on sale. Moria has the highest instance count of any zone in the game (2 three mans, 7 six mans, 2 raid enoucnters, and a raid). Not to mention access to two of the best end game sets.... AND you can go from levels 50-60 (or higher). Once update 2 goes live, Moria will become even MORE relevant because it is such an awesome source of relics and IXP, not to mention some very good pieces of loot.

Thanks for input. As far as gear goes I am really geared for my level. I actually just made a Gondorian Halberd at 31 and it is the best I can get. Other than that, I am in full skirmish gear. I don't really die often, I just feel that my lack of self heals is almost crippling.

Thanks for your reply.

don't make the same mistake that i did! don't pvmp with a captain if you go solo.

Why:
- No range ( we got the archer herald but still doesn't give enought renow in range vs a hunter).
- No slow ( a small snare the archer herald has but still fail due to the lower level of the herald).
- Not enough dps to match with other freeps.
- Not enough dps to kill reavers, warleaders, defilers, weavers, stalkers.
- No way to counter the cc like other melee class has.

In a group you will save the day and make creeps bash there keyboards but solo forget it.

Melee class for pvmp goes this way: Burg>Guard>Champ>Warden>Captai n

Yes it is very fun

and yes solo leveling on a captain is very painful, especially after SOA and even more especially after SOM

but its doable. ive done it twice now. one SOA and one SOM.

Solo captaining is entirely possible.

The key things are:
Master of War traitline (20% crit chance, 1500+ dmg crits, followed by routing cry stun is good stuff)
Make Haste (45s with legacy)
Oathbreakers
Archer when you know you'll be chasing things, War Banner for close melee situations

Originally Posted by Errond

Thanks for input. As far as gear goes I am really geared for my level. I actually just made a Gondorian Halberd at 31 and it is the best I can get. Other than that, I am in full skirmish gear. I don't really die often, I just feel that my lack of self heals is almost crippling.

Thanks for your reply.

Get used to it. We are far better at healing others than we are at healing ourselves.

You should also look at the best crafted armor you can get. I'm not sure how well skirmish gear compares against crafted armor.

Originally Posted by EvilMasterMind

don't make the same mistake that i did! don't pvmp with a captain if you go solo.

Why:
- No range ( we got the archer herald but still doesn't give enought renow in range vs a hunter).
- No slow ( a small snare the archer herald has but still fail due to the lower level of the herald).
- Not enough dps to match with other freeps.
- Not enough dps to kill reavers, warleaders, defilers, weavers, stalkers.
- No way to counter the cc like other melee class has.

In a group you will save the day and make creeps bash there keyboards but solo forget it.

Melee class for pvmp goes this way: Burg>Guard>Champ>Warden>Captai n

lol don't listen to this guy, captain solo is hard but it is very possible as beastwise has already stated. Also captain is getting a 10 second spamable fear with the update.

I can not even explain how wrong these two are.

"- Not enough dps to match with other freeps.
- Not enough dps to kill reavers, warleaders, defilers, weavers, stalkers."

wow lol, you can't kill anything then can you? I mean you named every creep class in the moors. The only one captains have 0 chance of killing if played correctly is weavers. All the rest I have killed hundreds of times in 1v1s. Even rank 13 Reavers, and rank 12+ wargs.

Leveling tips:
-Use quest gear, but always keep your weapon up to date. You should have a new weapon ever ~5 levels or so.
-Trait the red (lead the charge) trait line. Once you can use 4+ traits, always have at least 4 red for solo leveling.
-Use survivability virtues, not stat virtues. Most classes need 2-3 stats. We need all of ours. +30 to one stat doesnt make much of a difference. Try valuor, discipline, zeal, innocence, and ...the 5th one is up to you.
- Gear for morale, agil, and might for now. Ignore other raw stats, especially will/fate. Vit gives poor returns compared to the raw morale gear, until upper levels (still kindof true then too).


Btw, leveling a captain solely for PvMP seems...weird. It's one of the last classes I'd choose for that.

Originally Posted by BoredChemGradStudent

Btw, leveling a captain solely for PvMP seems...weird. It's one of the last classes I'd choose for that.

It's an excellent support/save our bacon class, but it's not all that great at raw DPS output.... Captains in groups are awesome, solo, not so much.

Originally Posted by ydoc

lol don't listen to this guy, captain solo is hard but it is very possible as beastwise has already stated. Also captain is getting a 10 second spamable fear with the update.

I can not even explain how wrong these two are.

"- Not enough dps to match with other freeps.
- Not enough dps to kill reavers, warleaders, defilers, weavers, stalkers."

wow lol, you can't kill anything then can you? I mean you named every creep class in the moors. The only one captains have 0 chance of killing if played correctly is weavers. All the rest I have killed hundreds of times in 1v1s. Even rank 13 Reavers, and rank 12+ wargs.

well i don't say it's impossible, i say it's painfull and instead of rolling a captain for solo pvp i suggest a higher dps class if for solo...

I solo alot and i clearly don't get much renow compare to other class but it's not like melendor do Zerg fightclub like brandywine do.

If you are able to out dps any other freeps then the other freep need to take a good look at himself in the mirror.
Hunter,Champions, Guardians, Rune-keeper, Lore-Master, Burglars, Minstrel can clearly out dps a captain.
Warden are more or less about the same dps has a captain but has a higher crit dmg i find on some gambits.


Note that i'm talking about up to now, the fear will be awesome yes but you need to get rank 9 no?

Plus any good high rank creeps (which i highly doubt that brandywine has) can obliterate a captain.

Weaver: CC fest
Warleader : Self healing tank
Defiler: Healer and can tank some serious damage
Stalkers: well when the ???? hit the fan they just hips sprint
Reaver: Insane resist (atm) and Great dps

Overall Captain is a slower class to Rank Solo then any other class that you can't disagree unless you fightclub.

I am almost rank 11, and beast wise is rank 13 apparently we are doing something your not. =)

"Plus any good high rank creeps (which i highly doubt that brandywine has) can obliterate a captain."

Rank 7+ weavers yes, but that is all. Obliteration is something that captains do not do well, if you are getting obliterated maybe that is because you go about it the wrong way. Every fight has is a unique puzzle for a captain the requires exact skill use to master. Each class in a 1v1 is different and you don't have to fight club as you put it to find people to 1v1.

Soo... what traits and virtues would you recommend?

Gearing?

Super long wall of text inc >.>

For a solo captain in the moors who wants to win 1v1's and possibly kill 1-2 creeps in 2v1's / 3v1's

I rec

Virtues
Innocence(wargs/Reavers), Discipline(wargs/reavers/dps increase), Honor(spiders/wargs/Vit), Charity(reavers/spiders/ba's), Zeal(optional, Defilers/Reavers/Wargs)
This setup nets you an all around protection from just about any class, and is the one I use 80% of the time in the moors both for raiding and for solo. In some situations I swap in Fidelity for warg packs, or if the server is particularly Ba heavy I will swap in Compassion.


Class Traits
5-6 Reds, Archer herald or Banner and 1-2 yellows. Sometimes I like to do Defiance other times I prefer more dps output, it just depends on if the moors is particularly zergy that day or not.

Master of War Slotted <-- this is required for free use of Shadows Lament your second highest dps skill.

Solo gear should always have emphasis on Might, Vit, and Agi in that order. Fate and will are almost completely useless to a solo captain. 6 Second RC is not needed in the moors if you are solo, I would rec bg set or dn set for there shadow/fire mitigation's that come in very handy. Also for god sake do not wear the full helegrod set -.- you captains in the whole thing make me cry. 2 of the pieces Helmet and gloves are pretty horrible, Use something else will ya. Escape from darkness cd is not that important, not even in the moors. AND EVEN THEN you can swap in the pieces for the rez and then you can take them back off.

Malladrim Gauntlets of Gloaming <- I can not tell you how much these gloves will save your morale pool. They are like the exact opposite of a Reflect dmg.

For solo play, with Archer herald I sit at 6.5k morale. For solo play with banner I sit at about 7k, not much difference. In a battle with a solo creep you will find the archer ends up winning over the banner, especially if they decide to bleed/kite you around. However spiders will mez your archer making him useless, and some creeps will just run from you until there feet bleed. There is nothing you can do to catch them if they are that determined to run away. However I have often caught creeps in grothum or HH that ran from me that were not so lucky, sometimes all it takes is a bit of perseverance and skill while you wait for them to mess up. No one is perfect, don't ever assume it I make mistakes all the time, and so do the wargs I chase. Half the time they sprint away from me they jump and mock me while spinning around trees. During this time I have them locked in combat and am sprinting straight for them. Often they will play too long and end up getting caught in there own game I kill them and laugh for it is a good day =).


Best grouping/raid setup imo is 4 red/3blue with oathies and bubble slotted. This leaves you with very decent heals, a 20% crit rate, and an aoe stun. All of which are very useful in the moors, and combine with a 6 second rc in groups/Raids you can output quite a lot of heals. Don't be confused by Valiant strike, it will get b/p/e'ed more often then not in the moors and you having 5% more crit rate is going to give more heals to the group then 2 extra blue traits and the capstone. For those of you who are thinking but but, hope banner....need... If your a good captain you should be aware of situational problems like Spider power drains+WL icpr nerfing banners. More often then not you need to switch between banners to be 100% effective It's not wise to limit yourself to one or the other.

Also when I was on bull roarer I slotted the Relics in my weapon/emblem for fun, It gave me a 20% chance to fear on BS without the armor on.


@ errond the op, One thing you will notice just like you have already said is that captains have very little self healing ability. RC is nice, and MC heal is helpful but in the end it just does not cut the mustard when the chips fall and your getting attacked with serious incoming dps.

Captains will always be a group class that is your best feature, making the captain into a solo monster was something I did because there were very few people I liked to play with in the moors for a while and they were never on. So it was either solo or wait until a raid formed, truth be told I never have liked waiting on anything =p. I also had no teacher or person to look up to when I delved deeply into the realm that is captain moors solo, so everything I know now is just my own intuition.

Also being 65 is a good thing that means you strive to be the best possible player when you step foot in the moors, this is important because every creep out there is also striving to be the best they can be. Which means you can't go into the moors halfheartedly and expect to come out the victor.

Originally Posted by ydoc

I am almost rank 11, and beast wise is rank 13 apparently we are doing something your not. =)

"Plus any good high rank creeps (which i highly doubt that brandywine has) can obliterate a captain."

Rank 7+ weavers yes, but that is all. Obliteration is something that captains do not do well, if you are getting obliterated maybe that is because you go about it the wrong way. Every fight has is a unique puzzle for a captain the requires exact skill use to master. Each class in a 1v1 is different and you don't have to fight club as you put it to find people to 1v1.

i'm not rank 10 or 12 because there is a reason, i'm on and off it's been 1 month now i haven't(i take long breaks once in a while) played because of the lack of content.

Plus i never said i was the best captain in the hood. I played a few time on brandwine and the population is quite huge event in pvmp. So until you roll on melendor you can't say nothing about my ranking.

Melendor is less dense population. If you look at the ranking on Melendor there is 1 rank 12 captain 3 or 4 rank 9 and a couple rank 8. Which mean that first, captain is hardcore pvmp class(we don't get it easy), secondly that the flow of renow is lower.

So my original point about the whole hate you generate on me is that captain can pvmp solo but you don't get fast renow like other class, in a group they are awesome and can generate a serious amount of renow.

You obviously read way to much into my posts, I never mocked your rank nor did I say you were a horrible captain.

But honestly dude, what do you expect someone to think when you tell them you get obliterated by every creep class in the moors. Because that is what you said a couple posts up. Seriously captains are not that bad off and saying that they are to someone who has not even stepped foot in the moors is just relaying your opinion that captains get obliterated by every class out there.

We don't get obliterated by any class solo not even spiders, I can bring spider fights to a near draw almost every time but the kiting always wins out for those spiders who can spam web the earth.

My only problem with your post is that it is a very defeatist attitude like you tried solo a couple times then never tried it again and formed your whole opinion off of it.

yea obliterate was the wrong word XD

personaly i just let high rank weavers kill me because i find it annoying to try to run after them.

but on the obliterate side, i clearly remember a few reavers take 8k of my life before i could get them 2k away (thank you for the westerness bug).

I soloed most of my ranks since 3 month after SoA release(where i would get 1 renow per kill may be 10 if i was really lucky) that's why i'm so defeatist. Before we had any range, i would see all the other freeps running around getting 20k renow a day while i was at 3k.

I still solo, it's doable just not a fast way to rank. When you get CC and wtfpwn in 10 seconds i just want to smash my keyboard. Sometime i wonder why i bother to still pvp on captain and then i see i'm couple k away from 9... then after 9 is 12...

Overall it's my experience on Melendor

Hell solo to rank , uber fun in groups

Originally Posted by ydoc

You obviously read way to much into my posts, I never mocked your rank nor did I say you were a horrible captain.

But honestly dude, what do you expect someone to think when you tell them you get obliterated by every creep class in the moors. Because that is what you said a couple posts up. Seriously captains are not that bad off and saying that they are to someone who has not even stepped foot in the moors is just relaying your opinion that captains get obliterated by every class out there.

We don't get obliterated by any class solo not even spiders, I can bring spider fights to a near draw almost every time but the kiting always wins out for those spiders who can spam web the earth.

My only problem with your post is that it is a very defeatist attitude like you tried solo a couple times then never tried it again and formed your whole opinion off of it.

Maybe it is that in your server people doesn't run away from a fight, but not all captain players that solo out there have the same luck.

A captain cannot do much against someone that is running away from them.

Throughout the years I've played this game, I can say that the main reason other captains say that is not that bad, is because they like to feel special by not having too many other captains getting into higher ranks. Yeah as stupid as that sounds heh.

They run from me all the time Forza, No different then on your server. Through careful tactics and perseverance I catch a lot of them.

#1 Lock them in combat with noble mark

#2 Make haste if needed to catch up

#3 try for a crit first(if crit you stun)

#4 If no crit you In Time of Need Then Stun'

#5 open up your full battle rotation on them in the correct order.


Do this every time you chase something and 4 out of 10 times you will catch your target and kill it.

Originally Posted by ydoc

They run from me all the time Forza, No different then on your server. Through careful tactics and perseverance I catch a lot of them.

#1 Lock them in combat with noble mark

#2 Make haste if needed to catch up

#3 try for a crit first(if crit you stun)

#4 If no crit you In Time of Need Then Stun'

#5 open up your full battle rotation on them in the correct order.


Do this every time you chase something and 4 out of 10 times you will catch your target and kill it.

Tell me, how would you catch a warg that has a slow that last for 30 seconds and can easily be used to cancel your make haste buff, while at the same time the warg has a base speed of 110%?

Do the math

Originally Posted by Forza

Tell me, how would you catch a warg that has a slow that last for 30 seconds and can easily be used to cancel your make haste buff, while at the same time the warg has a base speed of 110%?

Do the math

The easiest way Human Error, Because no one is perfect.

And if you're out in the Moors with a herald... you can also give the ultimate insult...

Have your herald get the KB on a creep =)

worth it?

Capt is the BEST class to have in a grp setting in moors. So if you plan to grp in moors, yes its worth it.

Capt can win most of planned 1v1s, so if you're a good player its worth it.

Capt is the worst option to have solo in open field battle. If someone wants to run from you, they will, unless they're a horrible player in which case u got lucky.

In this times what pvp set do u recommend the most ?

And about your might/morale/agility/mitigation, what do you guys think a captain should have when going to moors ?

Also about traits do you recommend Blue or Red traits (or even yellow) ?

Ty in advance

Nice necromancy.

I'm sort of a Moors newbie myself, but from what I can tell a standard 5R/2B build is pretty effective in the Moors. This is just IMO, but Moors combat is too fast for an HoH Captain to really make a difference, so the best thing is just to bring your buffs and Blade-Brother and do as much as you can to burn down the current target (not forgetting to apply your Cutting Attack slow, of course).

As for morale and mits, get as much as you can without dropping your masteries too low. 8k morale is a nice number to shoot for, that combined with our heavy armour means you can survive being piled on for a few seconds, which is the most you can hope for.

All three Moors armour sets right now are actually pretty good. Perseverance is popular even in PvE for the 3-set bonus that reduces the cooldown on defeat events. Command (I think that's the one) also makes Sure Strike apply a stacking incoming damage buff, which is awesome for bringing targets down.

But if you don't have one of the dedicated PvMP sets (and obviously you won't while starting out), most of the raid armour seems to be pretty effective.

If you're in a raid, go rainbow or HoH. You ain't gonna have time to make use of MoW, so just keep your ranged DPS alive. I say rainbow, because VS is practically a self heal out there in a chaotic, spread out raid. Get your RO, your FnD, your NfW, and everything else is your choice. Personally I've been going RO, FnD, NfW, Improved Hope, Rez trait, Defiance, and Turn the Tide (very lulzy). Tact Prowess is solid too. SotD, Fellowship Bro, IDOME in that order if you go rainbow.

Solo, go 5r/2b. SfW and probably RO (fights oughta be quick enough you can get by without NfW).

Duos, I kinda deviate from the trend and go 5r/2b with RO and FnD

Small and full fellowships, I go RO, FnD, NfW, Improved Hope, Rez trait, Defiance, and Turn the Tide. SotD, FB, HoH.


I say improved hope, but I feel like I'm forgetting something...

And about might/morale/tatical mitigation and agility what are the numbers you guys considered good for going there?

Originally Posted by RohirrimCaptain

And about might/morale/tatical mitigation and agility what are the numbers you guys considered good for going there?

I'm running 53% tactical mitigation and bout 20%ish crit chance. Might is 1590. I can win most creeps 1vs1 apart couple very good flayer wargs.