If cooldowns like manheal and DN are used the spiders almost automatically win, manheal costs ~650 power and DN just drains half your pool. I've had a 2v2 recently with an RK/minstrel and due to a bad decision on their part and some hefty cd use (mini dps'd) we easily won with power drains.
"There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them."
If cooldowns like manheal and DN are used the spiders almost automatically win, manheal costs ~650 power and DN just drains half your pool. I've had a 2v2 recently with an RK/minstrel and due to a bad decision on their part and some hefty cd use (mini dps'd) we easily won with power drains.
Was thinking more of the Cappy LS/Man Heal with his larger power pool, but that's a good point.
Two spiders should win more often than not, I think, given sufficient rank and equivalent skill level. Burrow when the Champion hits Sprint, then stagger WtE when Make Haste is up - it's not immune to slows. Additionally, the Captain can be CCed quite a bit, and while the Champion can make himself immune to CC with CBR... this is likely going to be a long fight, and it's unrealistic to think the Champ could keep it up the whole fight. A lot would depend on crits, especially if the Captain is LtC traited and can dish out some nice burst DPS, but I would go with the spiders.
the power drains are going to be horrid for the captain and champ especially if its a warg spider combo with the double drains. or even a spider / def combo which i was thinking would also be another nice match up with the HoTs, fear bombs 3k heals and such.
Originally Posted by Jamers
Exactly. I think it's really, really awesome when war tabs are posted from players like Maliha and Shray who are pure soloists and their war tabs genuinely reflect that. However, while soloing is my preferred form of play, I duo, small group and even raid occasionally, so my war tab is all over the place.
this is the same story as me. i think my rpk ratio is somewhere at 15-20 but ive solo'ed majority of r8 and just recently got 12.5k solo in one (LONG) day to finish my rank. Just because i have raided and will raid if necessary doesn't mean im a raid baby with my rpk so low but rather i dont care what it is. i cant help but love to get that 2 renown kill from swooping KB's
think you're confusing renown per kill with kills per death.
Is RPK worth caring about?
Originally Posted by tomaroo
You're delirious if you think a good captain and champion would lose to any two-creep combination with all cooldowns. It's not possible.
They shouldn't win against any two-creep combination with all their cooldowns either. A smart player will survive for the moment, and continue the fight on better terms.
My opponents need not fear me; they simply need to get used to returning from the rez circle.
I have never known anyone to care about reknown/kill except for one guy who likes to brag about his on BW Forums. Only thing I care about is my KB/D ratio.
Give me a 1 reknown KB over a 100 reknown non-KB kill any day.
For My BW Brethren or Those Who Love Stick Figures 3 Years of Stick Art
R.I.P NIDOR (1970-2012): You shall be missed but never forgotten, thank you.
think you're confusing renown per kill with kills per death.
Renown per kill is an even worse indicator of anything truthful.
Anyone who raided back in the pre-book 12 days will NEVER get the types of numbers someone new will have, soloer or raider.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
Give me a 1 reknown KB over a 100 reknown non-KB kill any day.
i think we need to straight the fact when ur solo-ing or in group.
100reknown non-KB? who took the KB? a burg?
i'd actually take the 100 reknown in a SOLO fight coz i know i did my fair share of DPS, which is my main job.
ninja'd a KB (and got 1 reknown out of it) is no indication whether ur a good champ or not, solo or group. in my honest opinion anyway.
again, why would u want 1 renown KB? for the Veteran title?
sorry if i took sth out of context but i didnt read all the prev pages.
on topic though, infuriating as it is, a good champ knows how to use ALL of his skills.
last night i got tagged by a pair of newbie BA and i died. i ALMOST killed 1 of them, but i didnt. they kited me like a little snared kitten and it was quite embarassing as i pop DN and yet couldnt kill at least 1 of them.
i believe my excuses and lessons to take are:
1. dont try to calm wife-aggro while ur being jumped in the moors. do one or the other.
2. Hamstring. hello? totally FORGOT (even after building up a hamstring legacy in my weapon. /shrug)(hey im off LOTRO for 2 years!)
3. SoundTheAttack. didnt use it AT ALL. stopping one in their tracks for a good 5 sec or so can drill 2k damage with frenzy-brutal-clobber-swift-rend most of the time.
4. Sprint AFTER u get snared or somewhere in the middle of the fight. not in the beginnin where it leaves u with no sprint for the rest of it.
my point is, frustrating as it is, a good champ who can utilize all his skills can definitely be a scary dude to any creep classes. Warg? bleed. Spidey? sprint. BA? stun. WL/defiler? clobber. just a few tiny examples of the tools that most champs i see in the moors DO NOT USE.
and relax. it takes time to be experienced enough to warrant the title "a good pvp champ". learn the ropes. practice practice practice. die die die. learn from it. practice practice practice.
I love playing my champ in the moors and probably I wouldn't enjoy any other class as much as champ.
Most of people would suggest you to build a guard or whatever... well, champs can be devastating for any kind of opponent and more than all other classes.
Personally I have few problems only with wargs and especially when they put dots on me when I'm still on my horse. Most of other creeps, especially reavers, are easy to be killed, at least with the setup I have chosen and with the skills chain I use.
However, I admit that champs have such a weak resistance that you need to improve everything you can, including stats, melee def, melee crit, dps, strategy, skills chain, timing, at the very highest level.
This is a huge challenge, we know, but makes the champ as unique as deadly.
I am not going into a detailed explaination of my personal strategy or setup, not only cause I don't want to help my enemies, but more than everything cause strategies are something personal.
The only suggestion I give to all champs playing Pvmp is to choose a two-handed weapon for a faster and greater dps.
Another suggestion I give is to cap might, vit and agility without taking advantage of virtues. Use virtues slots to increase your melee defence.
Fighting with a champ is very close to fighting with a reaver. In both situations you need simply to erase your enemy's morale before he erases yours
as you solo and gain exp
if you get past the constant gank,
learn to use skills properly
you will prevail a lot.
it takes the time to get through the frustration
and gain the experience needed to properly handle a champ out there
its fun and easy in grps
if you solo thats a different story sometimes.
I have never known anyone to care about reknown/kill except for one guy who likes to brag about his on BW Forums. Only thing I care about is my KB/D ratio.
Give me a 1 reknown KB over a 100 reknown non-KB kill any day.
IMO, high rpk/ipk is the trademark of a soloer, and high kb/d is the trademark of a group player. Not saying either is better than the other, just that's how the numbers tend to pan out.
I know on a populated zerg based server like Elendilmir, if you want to solo (*note there is a difference between playing un-grouped, and soloing) then you better forget about k/d fast. For every 1on1 fight you land, you get zerged 3 more times, or your side comes out of nowhere and zergs your opponent.
*Now as for my definition of soloing, to me it means running by yourself, looking for 1on1 (or how ever many opponents you think you can handle) fights. Running around with others un-grouped is not the same as soloing.
Last edited by mosphet99; Jun 10 2011 at 01:57 PM.
Don't get discouraged! The class is so powerful out there once you're good at it. I haven't popped CB or DN in a 1v1 for months and still get the kill or close to it. In my experience dying is easily avoidable soloing not counting the fact 4+ wargs sprint when you sprint, or encountering the creep zerg. <3 Champ
IMO, high rpk/ipk is the trademark of a soloer, and high kb/d is the trademark of a group player. Not saying either is better than the other, just that's how the numbers tend to pan out.
I know on a populated zerg based server like Elendilmir, if you want to solo (*note there is a difference between playing un-grouped, and soloing) then you better forget about k/d fast. For every 1on1 fight you land, you get zerged 3 more times, or your side comes out of nowhere and zergs your opponent.
*Now as for my definition of soloing, to me it means running by yourself, looking for 1on1 (or how ever many opponents you think you can handle) fights. Running around with others un-grouped is not the same as soloing.
really high RPK is just indicative of a person who has solo'd their entire moors career. raid maybe even two or three times and your rpk will drop substantially. mine sits somewhere around 17 but i solo'd over half of r8 and all of r9 so far. ive raided a fair bit and ill steal kbs and get 3 renown cause i dont really care, but that doesn't mean im not a good solo'er or a bad 1v1'er by any means :/
Champ play definitely takes some dedication. It can be frustrating, it can really piss you off, although once that is the class you are used to playing, it gets much much better. I leveled a minstrel when I was fed up with all the range fests going on so I could actually pvp, but was always drawn back to the champion class. You learn many tricks on how to maximize renown, but more importantly maximize your fun.
Gotta say, I did dislike the comparison to guards in some of the earlier posts. Whilst prior to RoI it was absolutely the case that guard play was easier and the lower dps (largely from using 3 proc heals and gimping stats) wasn't such an impact because combat was slower, the reality now is vastly different. Compare the 2 classes now and you'll find the areas in which the guard surpasses are by very slight margins compared to the margin in areas such as damage, where the guard is crippled compared to any other freep.
You do realize all but the last post before yours is over a year old, right? Someone used thread necromancy to ask someone about their avatar or a picture they posted or something.
You do realize all but the last post before yours is over a year old, right? Someone used thread necromancy to ask someone about their avatar or a picture they posted or something.
I forgot about this post . I've pretty much corrected/learned everything I didn't before since starting this. Running a mit build has done me well as well.
I forgot about this post . I've pretty much corrected/learned everything I didn't before since starting this. Running a mit build has done me well as well.
I'm sure the changes over the last year didn't hurt either :P
Champs in 2012 are close to minstrels in the OP department. I'd even venture to say a well-played champ is MORE OP than even a well-played minstrel. However, it's the opposite when comparing average or below average players.
Irrelevent I know. Just my 2 cent in a necro'd thread.
Perhaps, but a skill along the lines of the bubbles was needed if they intended me to survive longer than 5 secs on a melee class with the same morale I had in Mirkwood. Let's not forget I'm nerfing my mastery by 7000 points to get the results I have now.
Let's not forget I'm nerfing my mastery by 7000 points to get the results I have now.
Yeah, I'm fairly certain every decent moors champ sacrifices their mastery for mits/crit/morale/etc, I know I do. My champ sits a little over 19k mastery in moors set up. But it's not REALLY a sacrifice because I still do a ridiculous amount of damage. And the TH bubble isn't a problem as much as having SD only on a 30-40s cd is. It makes 2v1/3v1's against average creeps very winnable. I feel like I basically have a ~20k+ morale pool.
Still, I think champs are in a peculiar place right now. The class is very player-skill dependent still, as it always has been. Unlike minstrels, a bad champ is gonna die repeatedly and end up frustrated. However, the good champs are near god-like now. I ran around solo/duo and achieved a 2k rating just half-as*ed trying, which I never thought I would do, raking in sometimes 15-20k renown from just afternoon/evening play. And I don't consider myself a great champ either, especially compared to someone like Balbaroy, one of (if not THE) best champ in NA. I've seen him in situations where I would get a kill or two and die and watch him obliterate everything and walk away. But again, that goes back to my first point; The good ones are really good and the bad ones are really bad. So it's really a tough call. /shrug
I have a top guard on Windfola and i use him for tanking and never take him to the moors. I have found myself as a champion using Glory in the moors basicly for more survive ability. My virtues are tact mits and resist based, i trait 4 blue, sprint, ardent rage and swing anger. I run with the 5 piece set for the bracing attack to cure my poisons esc... My Sudden Def is a 1m cooldown which is awesome and dire need is 2.5min CD. I do not do the top dps as i would if i was in ferver, but i can rush into a pack of creeps and not die and get the same amount of renown. My champion sits at 20k mastery, 59% tactical mits and 9.5k morale.
Creeps on Windfola QQ all day long that a champion in Glory is noobish and what not, but with my setup i die once out of every 25-30 creep kills solo. You have to remember not all creeps are loyal to 1v1 rules and alot of times you have to be prepared for 2/3/4 v1.
I have a top guard on Windfola and i use him for tanking and never take him to the moors. I have found myself as a champion using Glory in the moors basicly for more survive ability. My virtues are tact mits and resist based, i trait 4 blue, sprint, ardent rage and swing anger. I run with the 5 piece set for the bracing attack to cure my poisons esc... My Sudden Def is a 1m cooldown which is awesome and dire need is 2.5min CD. I do not do the top dps as i would if i was in ferver, but i can rush into a pack of creeps and not die and get the same amount of renown. My champion sits at 20k mastery, 59% tactical mits and 9.5k morale.
Creeps on Windfola QQ all day long that a champion in Glory is noobish and what not, but with my setup i die once out of every 25-30 creep kills solo. You have to remember not all creeps are loyal to 1v1 rules and alot of times you have to be prepared for 2/3/4 v1.
You know Zerric, when I reach lv 75 I ill try to run in moors this way you do.
Helgrimm of Rohan, Éored Captain Let me hear the battle cry / Calling on the wind
Let me see the banners fly / Before the storm begins
I just returned after a 6+ month hiatus. I have zero Audacity gear yet, and I find myself in a lot of situations where I'm struggling for a win. I've only won a few 1v1 against newbie creeps so far. Higher ranked creeps tear me apart. I've tried a few different builds, mainly aimed at survivability + Glory, and then the kill-them-before-they-kill-me approach + Fervor. Neither have really seemed to do any better than the other. I've been playing forever and a day, so it's not like pvmp is new to me. I seemed to do a lot better before my break. Perhaps I'm still warming back up in getting into the right mindset.
Anyway, I guess my questions are: does lack of Audacity equate to futility on the field? With Rohan coming out, should I even bother with Audacity gear or save my comms for the upcoming inevitable new sets? I've tried slotting morale and resists, tried gearing with what I have (switching between the old PVP Threkkappi set and Relentless fighter sets.) Nothing seems to really help much. I either do a lot less damage and last a few seconds longer, or do a bit more damage and die faster. This is primarily 1v1 vs. ranked creeps.
Creeps on Windfola QQ all day long that a champion in Glory is noobish and what not, but with my setup i die once out of every 25-30 creep kills solo. You have to remember not all creeps are loyal to 1v1 rules and alot of times you have to be prepared for 2/3/4 v1.
Someday you'll realize that you QQ about creeps QQ'ing more than creeps actually QQ
and FYI nobody GAF on creepside about which stance you're in. At least I know I don't, and have never heard anyone on our server speak a word of it.
High Chieftain Ryucrat, Hand of Doom...Retired and done with Lotro for as long as can be
Anyway, I guess my questions are: does lack of Audacity equate to futility on the field? With Rohan coming out, should I even bother with Audacity gear or save my comms for the upcoming inevitable new sets?
Yes, if you have no audacity, you're screwed. I'd say that you should get what you can now (what else would you spend your comms on?) and you get a 10% decrease in the cost of any piece that you already have when RoR comes out.
Yes, if you have no audacity, you're screwed. I'd say that you should get what you can now (what else would you spend your comms on?) and you get a 10% decrease in the cost of any piece that you already have when RoR comes out.
Thank you Samus. I don't have a lot of comms (I think I broke a little over 2k two days ago) so it's not like I'm swimming in them hehe. I'll buy some pieces when I get enough comms though. Kinda blows being completely irrelevant despite all the time I've spent out in the moors ranking up. Seems like every time I turn around any advancement that's been made gets reset to 0, whether it's through new mechanics like Audacity or level cap increases (which infers new gear again.)
Was there ever an opportunity to exchange Threkkappi gear for comms? Seems like that would have been a no-brainer to preserve all the effort people put into grinding their gear.
Thank you Samus. I don't have a lot of comms (I think I broke a little over 2k two days ago) so it's not like I'm swimming in them hehe. I'll buy some pieces when I get enough comms though. Kinda blows being completely irrelevant despite all the time I've spent out in the moors ranking up. Seems like every time I turn around any advancement that's been made gets reset to 0, whether it's through new mechanics like Audacity or level cap increases (which infers new gear again.)
Was there ever an opportunity to exchange Threkkappi gear for comms? Seems like that would have been a no-brainer to preserve all the effort people put into grinding their gear.
You're not completely irrelevant without audacity, and comms are incredibly easy to get. I'm not discounting you, as it is possible your break left you a bit rusty, but if you're struggling in 1v1's against any class/rank you're doing something very wrong. Champs are like minstrels when it comes to 1v1's - you have to be restricting yourself in order to lose. The only class that stands a chance is a REALLY good flayer warg, even then it's a long shot, and you'd have to make a few mistakes to truly lose and/or not blow any cd's.
You're not completely irrelevant without audacity, and comms are incredibly easy to get. I'm not discounting you, as it is possible your break left you a bit rusty, but if you're struggling in 1v1's against any class/rank you're doing something very wrong. Champs are like minstrels when it comes to 1v1's - you have to be restricting yourself in order to lose. The only class that stands a chance is a REALLY good flayer warg, even then it's a long shot, and you'd have to make a few mistakes to truly lose and/or not blow any cd's.
Oh no doubt that I'm rusty. My rotation finally started to iron itself out a bit yesterday though, so it's not at bad as I thought. There are some classes I have trouble with - namely kiters like BAs who perma-snare and kite/bleed the whole fight and defilers who throw bugs and kite. All the other classes I feel that I have a solid chance to win. It is pretty difficult though against creeps who are ranked twice as high as I am, but that's the way it should be.
Even so, I have an LI that allows 45 sec sprint, I should have slapped that on when I was fighting the kiting BA. Hindsight and all that.
Any champs have a strat against defilers that bug and kite, besides "don't fight them"? I tried killing the bugs asap, but by the time I killed them my power was very low, the defiler was out of range and summoned more, rinse;repeat - I was out of power for the rest of the long, drawn out and boring fight. :|
store pots, likely the defiler tp'd the flies and possibly the blight so you dont even have to feel guilty - you just need a credit card or too much time to grind meaningless deeds. have no fear turbine points are here!
store pots, likely the defiler tp'd the flies and possibly the blight so you dont even have to feel guilty - you just need a credit card or too much time to grind meaningless deeds. have no fear turbine points are here!
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. I've pretty much corrected/learned everything I didn't before since starting this. Running a mit build has done me well as well.
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