Thread: New relics

If anyone hasnt done so, i encourage you to pop over to bullroarer or check on the bullroarer forums and see the new relics that are replacing our current tier 7s-9s. They are vastly inferior in many ways (with 1 or 2 exceptions) to our current tier 7-9s. We cannot create the current relics and if you do not pay turbine, you will lose your 7-9s on a decon at max level.

This update, which i believe is a great update for the legendary system, will be ruined by this. The new relic system is fine, all I am saying is let us either create our current relics just like we would have to create the new tier 6s.

Im not asking for a petition or /sign if you agree. I want to see other's point of view on this perceived(actual) nerf.

Maybe someone can convince me that the new runes/gems are better than our current ones. Poster under has the link

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Updat...y_Item_Changes

Well, I'm looking at the Tier 1 relics and salivating, so I guess I won't sympathize with your argument.

Originally Posted by Crissaegrim

Well, I'm looking at the Tier 1 relics and salivating, so I guess I won't sympathize with your argument.

So you think the tier 1 relics are better than the current tier 7s-tier9s we have in live right now?


Tier 1 runes in the new update:
Early Rune of Warding(1040 Incoming Healing, 520 Block)
Early Rune of Deflection(60 icmr, 520 Parry)
Early Rune of Freedom(60 icpr, 520 Evade)

I'll throw in the tier 6 runes in the update as well:
Subtle Rune of the Fortress(1040 Incoming Healing, 520 Block)
Subtle Rune of Readiness(114 icmr, 520 Parry)
Subtle Rune of the Sun(114 icpr, 520 Evade)


Tier 9 runes we have currently:
Subtle Rune of the Crags (150 power, 200 morale, 250 melee critical defence)
Subtle Rune of the Marshes (150 morale, 200 power, 250 ranged critical defence)
Tier 8s we have currently:
Ancient Rune of the Storm (150 power, 150 morale, 600 ranged defence)
Ancient Rune of Thunder (150 power, 150 morale, 600 melee defence)


Hmm, I'd sure rather take 114 icpr and about .8% evade over 200 morale, 150 power, and 250 melee critical defense! /facepalm

They simply should allow us to create tier 7s-9s that we currently have now in the update or they should at least remove them altogether so it's not a pay to win situation.

I don't know why Turbine has to make everything in this game so confusing. There is too much reading in this game as it is, and everything they do has so many ridiculous restrictions.

Reading the developers diary and to me its just confusing as can be with all the restrictions. This is supposed to be a game.

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...eveloper-diary

Originally Posted by Cabbus

I don't know why Turbine has to make everything in this game so confusing. There is too much reading in this game as it is, and everything they do has so many ridiculous restrictions.

Reading the developers diary and to me its just confusing as can be with all the restrictions. This is supposed to be a game.

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...eveloper-diary

I think you'll be able to make sense of the new changes when they are actually put into live or if you go to the Bullroarer forums... I don't think that developer diary is too accurate and explains it well enough, I know what I know about it mostly from reading on the Bullroarer forums about what people had to say. The system itself is a bit confusing but if executed right (which I think it is besides the current tier 7-9s being being made un-creatable but we still get to keep them to make use of their new store "convenience") it can be a very, very good addition to game play.

Originally Posted by Cabbus

I don't know why Turbine has to make everything in this game so confusing. There is too much reading in this game as it is, and everything they do has so many ridiculous restrictions.

Reading the developers diary and to me its just confusing as can be with all the restrictions. This is supposed to be a game.

I couldn't agree more. Turbine has taken what was already an inelegant, complex system and is making it even more inelegant and complex. Maybe they think most people will be so confused, they won't notice all the nerfs.

Well according to the dev blog:

"Most stat combinations achievable with the old relics will be available, as well as some new stats that weren’t available before. All ways of gaining relics, including existing “Sealed” or “Fused” relics, will output the new relics. In addition to all this, we are launching with nine “Unique” relics, available in level 55, 60 and 65 sizes. These unique relics are created through Melding (I’ll talk about this later), and will compliment the already varied mix of 10 relics per tier, allowing for significant customization options."

so it appears that you will be able to create your existing relic if you so choose, or customize a relic to your particular need.

Followed by:

"No longer will you have to constantly combine relics in the hope of getting the one you wanted! Special “Unique” relics with different stats than then normal tier 1-6 relics can also be made, which will allow you to pick and choose the combination of stats you want from the Legendary item."

So in the end, you should have the ability to recreate your Tier 9 relic if you so chose--or customize a relic to your particular need.

Originally Posted by Petruccio

So in the end, you should have the ability to recreate your Tier 9 relic if you so chose--or customize a relic to your particular need.

And, surprisingly enough, you can't according to the build that is currently on bullroarer now- you can only keep tier 9s that are on a weapon you want to deconstruct by paying Turbine money to remove them.

This update is against:
1. Anyone who doesn't want to have to be 100% reliant on the store for an action that is considered above convenience.
and
2. Anyone who doesn't currently have tier 9 relics because of the immense grind of the current system that the new system is meant to fix... lol.

Right now, the variety of relics is taking a big hit.

It's easy to see how many types of relics there are after the update - there are 19. 10 regular and 9 special. Sure, there are tiers, but each higher tier only represents a more powerful version of what went before.

It's harder to estimate with the old system. There are very few repeats in which you can clearly say X is an upgraded version of Y. But to save time and argument, in the first four tiers alone, there are 23 types of relics.

So just looking at that, the diversity of relics has decreased from 23 to 19 different combinations of bonuses. And if we look at the full 9 tiers it's much worse.

Turbine should have dumped the whole 'combo' approach and just had a single stat per relic, then allow you to slot two of each flavor of relic. At least that way people could have mixed and matched what they wanted instead of being railroaded into a fairly minimal set of possibilities with the new relics.

It is a way to force players to use the store. Another turbine lie, the store was originally explained to contain only perks/fluff/ non essential things. Now they are shoving it down our throats.

You have to PAY in the store, to keep your current Teir 8 and 9 relics upon a decon.

We need an unofficial turbine lie thread to organize the info they have given us that has turned out to be far from the truth.

Well, on my burg, I was able to get +agility, +mêlée crit, +might and +icpr on my first legendary items.

It looks like I won't be able to do that with the new set sadly (as Sardonyx pointed out).

+agility only comes with ranged crit, good for hunters but...???

+mêlée crit comes with vitality, I've never worn anything with +vitality and certainly don't need it.

So the only setting worthwhile is +might/mêlée offense.
The only gem, is +vitality/mêlée crit.
The only rune is +icpr/evade.

In other words, my key stat will lose (currently +22 agility). That was even with lower tier relics (I believe my highest were tier 5s).

Looking at the Unique relics, which would be a huge grind to get, the setting with mêlée crit probably isn't worth losing the might to get. The gems are a downgrade. The rune of courage would be necessary.

I've never done any grinding, it's the antithesis of fun--it's work, not a game, but it seems I'd be unhappy if I don't grind out a bunch of relics before the update, so I don't have to spend $5-12 to buy them back and carry them forward to future items. :-(



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Has anyone seen what happens when you mess with a tier 9 on BR? My tier 9s on my warden represent about two months worth of solo danneglor and finishing all moria instance deeds. I hope they consider the time invested in current system for what seems like an annoying reset with relics. I guess the new system seems more user friendly, but losing two months of work, on just one character, for what seems to be a sideways if not backwards upgrade is disheartening.

Originally Posted by Petruccio

Well according to the dev blog:

"Most stat combinations achievable with the old relics will be available, as well as some new stats that weren’t available before. All ways of gaining relics, including existing “Sealed” or “Fused” relics, will output the new relics. In addition to all this, we are launching with nine “Unique” relics, available in level 55, 60 and 65 sizes. These unique relics are created through Melding (I’ll talk about this later), and will compliment the already varied mix of 10 relics per tier, allowing for significant customization options."

Yeah, most combinations ... other than the ones players actually would want (see current Ancient Rune of Thunder for an example of a current relic that simply will become irreplaceable under the new system. If you have one or more of these, expect to pay 175TP every time you get a better LI and want to slot it. Because you can't make it under the new system and you can't get it out of an LI without buying a scroll from the store. (Note: the relic will be unslotted from its current LI once the system goes live. But after that, if you slot it in an LI, you won't be able to get it back without paying TP.)

so it appears that you will be able to create your existing relic if you so choose, or customize a relic to your particular need.

Followed by:

"No longer will you have to constantly combine relics in the hope of getting the one you wanted! Special “Unique” relics with different stats than then normal tier 1-6 relics can also be made, which will allow you to pick and choose the combination of stats you want from the Legendary item."

So in the end, you should have the ability to recreate your Tier 9 relic if you so chose--or customize a relic to your particular need.

Yeah. And "legendary items grow with your character." I've learned not to rely on what Turbine says; I rely on what the actual game systems allow ;^)

OMG! The sky is falling!

* looks at the time table for changes permitted till update releases * nvm..

I kinda wonder if people realise that they can keep their teir 9's and not destroy them or use them untill they have that perfect li which will take a whole day to get now.. then they dont have to remove anything from the li or replace it untill isengard goes live in which case they can pay for a scroll ONCE when they have a perfect lvl 70 li which will only take another day or two?

Look at all the changes not just one.

Originally Posted by Happyfish

Has anyone seen what happens when you mess with a tier 9 on BR? My tier 9s on my warden represent about two months worth of solo danneglor and finishing all moria instance deeds. I hope they consider the time invested in current system for what seems like an annoying reset with relics. I guess the new system seems more user friendly, but losing two months of work, on just one character, for what seems to be a sideways if not backwards upgrade is disheartening.

Actually, you'll be fine. As long as you're willing to spend 175TP every time you want to move those relics to a new LI. If you don't buy the scroll in the store, the relics will be lost when you deconstruct the LI. And you won't be able to obtain them again under the new system (though you may be able to obtain new relics that are similar; you'll just have to check out the list of new relics: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...p-Summary-V1.1).

Originally Posted by Beldacar

Actually, you'll be fine. As long as your willing to spend 175TP every time you want to move those relics to a new LI. If you don't buy the scroll in the store, the relics will be lost when you deconstruct the LI. And you won't be able to obtain them again under the new system (though you may be able to obtain new relics that are similar; you'll just have to check out the list of new relics: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...p-Summary-V1.1).

Thanks for the link, but my question was more along the lines of if I meld or shardify my tier 9s, am I being compensated for the time I put into the system? Getting a stable of useful tier 9s took months on just one character and now it appears I can get relics for pocket change, sorry if I'm underwhelmed by this design decision.

Originally Posted by Happyfish

Thanks for the link, but my question was more along the lines of if I meld or shardify my tier 9s, am I being compensated for the time I put into the system? Getting a stable of useful tier 9s took months on just one character and now it appears I can get relics for pocket change, sorry if I'm underwhelmed by this design decision.

You'll get "shards" that you can turn into things like Scrolls of Empowerment. I doubt you'll consider the compensation "adequate" but I could be wrong. Frankly, if you're happy with the relics you've got, you'd be better off not melding them or otherwise destroying them: you'd be better off slotting them in LIs you use and paying the Turbine Points to move them to other LIs. And that's the crux of the problem: there needs to be a method available in-game to recover relics from LIs.

And yes, you can get relics for "pocket change" (although the cost of some of the higher-tier actions are not insignificant to many players, like 500 silver to combine three relics and so forth), but they aren't anywhere near as good, overall, as the relics they're replacing. So, all the effort you spent produced "good, worthwhile" relics while the ones you can get for "pocket change" are mostly "mediocre" relics. YMMV.

Originally Posted by nnichols1

It is a way to force players to use the store. Another turbine lie, the store was originally explained to contain only perks/fluff/ non essential things. Now they are shoving it down our throats.

There is nothing here to force players to use the store, or necessarily want to use it. Unless they misunderstand the system and think they have to remove relics often.

I have very few tier 7-9 actually. Not a big nerf. The hardcore grinders will be upset, but maybe the system needed rebalancing. Not every nerf is a sign that you're deeply hated by the devs. This system will actually make it better for most players I think, even if a few top end players start pouting.

This makes fascinating reading while I wait for the Rift client to download.

Originally Posted by Lohi

I have very few tier 7-9 actually. Not a big nerf. The hardcore grinders will be upset, but maybe the system needed rebalancing. Not every nerf is a sign that you're deeply hated by the devs. This system will actually make it better for most players I think, even if a few top end players start pouting.

That's presuming top end level capped players. But I've got my first LIs. There'll be a few to go through over the next 20ish levels. Now sure, other classes would probably find the new relics more useful, but in my case, they all are half (or less) than what my current tier 4 give me!

While sure, getting relics in the new system will be easier, and legacies you want, which is wonderful, at the same time it will become impossible to get what I have now!

And I am FAR from a top end player, nor pouting, I just spent tonight blowing a bunch of skirmish marks to stock up on relics I want for the future, without spending 175 ($1-3) a few times over.

But I read. (Forewarned is forearmed.) Other players? I believe they'll be shocked.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by Cromwall

This makes fascinating reading while I wait for the Rift client to download.

Yeah, about that....

I'm actually on the fence about Rift. I beta-tested it. I was impressed with how stable and smooth the beta was. And I was impressed with how fun the basic game mechanics were. I even liked the storyline (and I generally hate settings with mechano-magical stuff).

But it's another "race to the level cap and then repeat the same instances over and over" game. If I buy it, there's little doubt in my mind that I will exhaust the game's possibilities during the free month. What's worse, there's not much doubt in my mind that many other players will do the same. And then what will follow will not be pretty, because the game will sell 500K or a million boxes, but a month and a half later will plummet to 100K or 200K actual subscribers. This will be followed by a spate of articles on sites like MMORPG.com asking "what went wrong?"

I hope I'm wrong and the game is a huge success. It's polished, the basics are fun, and the team seem to be passionate about their product. But a decade of playing MMOs leads me to believe otherwise....

Originally Posted by Lohi

There is nothing here to force players to use the store, or necessarily want to use it. Unless they misunderstand the system and think they have to remove relics often.

I have very few tier 7-9 actually. Not a big nerf. The hardcore grinders will be upset, but maybe the system needed rebalancing. Not every nerf is a sign that you're deeply hated by the devs. This system will actually make it better for most players I think, even if a few top end players start pouting.

Not forced to, no, unless you want to send your T7-T9 relics into oblivion. T7-T9 relics that will no longer be available to get after the update, by any means. T7-T9 relics which are far superior to any of the relics that will be available after the update.

I hate to even think about the time and effort I've put in over several characters to get T8-T9s for them. And I'll have to pay to keep what I already earned while I was paying subscription fees. Maybe you don't have much to lose, but a lot of other people stand to lose a great deal. I am no top end player by any means, but I like to be the best I can be. Now I feel punished for it.

And why the need to "re-balance" (nerf) with every update? Why can't Turbine ever get it right the first time? All we've seen since Moria is character regression. People don't play (or pay) to get worse over time. What can Turbine be thinking? Why is this the best they can offer us?

You folks do remember that the LI revamp was supposed to come in two phases right? Unless I missed where they've canceled that, it's still a go. We have no idea what phase two entails. So sit down have a cooky and wait to see how it gets finished. If you still don't like it, then by all means continue with your "sky is falling" retoric.

Originally Posted by Antrius

You folks do remember that the LI revamp was supposed to come in two phases right? Unless I missed where they've canceled that, it's still a go. We have no idea what phase two entails. So sit down have a cooky and wait to see how it gets finished. If you still don't like it, then by all means continue with your "sky is falling" retoric.

1. You really think phase two is going to be called 'where we alter the stats of all we did in phase 1'?
2. If people don't complain, nothing can ever be changed because they think we're satisfied with it. By the time things are 'finished', it's too late.

I noticed in Arbalister's lorebook page on the new relics (he gave a link to it on page 1 of this thread) that tier 3 crafted relics can be turned into "shards" which can be used to pay for relic combines. Can tier 1 & 2 crafted relics be turned into shards as well?

The point is that there are NO comparable relics to the current Tier 7-9. You lose, anyway you slice it, enormous utility for almost every class if you only have the new relics available, which are far inferior. The absolute only way in the current build to keep what you worked months and months for, is to use the store, which is now not in any way, shape or form, a "convenience." You can't make more and you can't keep them without spending TP. I feel badly for the developers that were forced to make this seem as if it's an upgrade.

Turbine has made this all about the store, completely discounting what people have literally ground out for a year. Not to mention the fact that this new system produces relics that represent very significant nerfs for many players/classes.

Beyond the actual facts, the developer diary was dishonest. You cannot make what you can get on live. Not in any way a comparable set-up. In my 3 years playing this game, this is actually something I would leave the game over if it goes live. Many, many others feel the same as me - judging by the absolute outrage on the BR forums.

This change needs to be reverted.

Originally Posted by NoRuff

OMG! The sky is falling!

* looks at the time table for changes permitted till update releases * nvm..

I kinda wonder if people realise that they can keep their teir 9's and not destroy them or use them untill they have that perfect li which will take a whole day to get now.. then they dont have to remove anything from the li or replace it untill isengard goes live in which case they can pay for a scroll ONCE when they have a perfect lvl 70 li which will only take another day or two?

Look at all the changes not just one.

Yeah ONCE when we get first age lvl 65 LIs, ONCE when we get the lvl 70 2nd age ones, ONCE when we get first age lvl 70 LIs, multiply that by the number of LIs each toon has and the number of toons you want to keep the relics on, I guess that's not much is it? And what about ppl who dont have the old relics and want them?

Originally Posted by Beladore

1. You really think phase two is going to be called 'where we alter the stats of all we did in phase 1'?
2. If people don't complain, nothing can ever be changed because they think we're satisfied with it. By the time things are 'finished', it's too late.

1. LOL you may very well be right!
2. You are again correct. However that is not what is being done in all of the threads. Threatening to rage quit (not saying you did) does nothing to further the cause.

Am I happy with the change? I am on the fence, leaning heavily toward no. I do like some of the new relics and I really like the legacy change. I stand to loose a lot without having my tier 9's, and that I am upset about. Hopefully we'll see a change! The raid sets were a step in the right direction for some, so maybe there is hope yet.

Originally Posted by Antrius

You folks do remember that the LI revamp was supposed to come in two phases right? Unless I missed where they've canceled that, it's still a go. We have no idea what phase two entails. So sit down have a cooky and wait to see how it gets finished. If you still don't like it, then by all means continue with your "sky is falling" retoric.

That doesn't change the fact of removed runes, settings, and gems. These wont be just magically put back in. And while I look forward to more relic choices with isengard and finishing of this revamp I do not see them putting back in things they removed, what's happening here is basicly giving long time players the option to 'repurchase' some superior relics (this is MOSTLY the t8 and 9 runes, alot of the new settings and gems are very good, while 99% of the new runes suck very, very, very bad.) So it's a pay to keep everything you did over the last two years. IE: In simple terms, suddenly taking away your raid armour (BG, DN, Watcher) and telling you it will be permanently deleted and not obtainable again if you don't buy it back, then giving you level 50 rift gear and telling you it's better.

Originally Posted by Elkenbrand

Yeah ONCE when we get first age lvl 65 LIs, ONCE when we get the lvl 70 2nd age ones, ONCE when we get first age lvl 70 LIs, multiply that by the number of LIs each toon has and the number of toons you want to keep the relics on, I guess that's not much is it? And what about ppl who dont have the old relics and want them?

And i still don't see the t7's they'll probably add then being much better, if they're only better versions of whats there now (seems to be every 10 levels per teir is the theory even though relics dont start till 45), maybe we'll get some more unique ones but I don't see those being our rune's of thunder. So... after that, Rohan! ONCE we get to level 80 first ages.... etc. Gondor! level 90 first ages (still buying and using this ancient rune of the thunder here turbine....etc)

Originally Posted by Elkenbrand

Yeah ONCE when we get first age lvl 65 LIs, ONCE when we get the lvl 70 2nd age ones, ONCE when we get first age lvl 70 LIs, multiply that by the number of LIs each toon has and the number of toons you want to keep the relics on, I guess that's not much is it? And what about ppl who dont have the old relics and want them?

I might also point out that the name onthe notes for this little change to bulroarer are called "pass 1" which means there are going to be more passes and changes. there is a reason its called a test server so things can be changed. you ppl can get your panties in a wad when its a week from going live but a month away? really? really.. really??

Originally Posted by NoRuff

I might also point out that the name onthe notes for this little change to bulroarer are called "pass 1" which means there are going to be more passes and changes. there is a reason its called a test server so things can be changed. you ppl can get your panties in a wad when its a week from going live but a month away? really? really.. really??

true, but don't forget as has been said if nothing is said, nothing will be done. Thing's yes, can and most likely will change, but only if people SAY something. Being silent changes nothing.

Originally Posted by GarethB

I noticed in Arbalister's lorebook page on the new relics (he gave a link to it on page 1 of this thread) that tier 3 crafted relics can be turned into "shards" which can be used to pay for relic combines. Can tier 1 & 2 crafted relics be turned into shards as well?

Not sure...but when I find out, I'll update the Lorebook page.

Originally Posted by Beldacar

And then what will follow will not be pretty, because the game will sell 500K or a million boxes, but a month and a half later will plummet to 100K or 200K actual subscribers. This will be followed by a spate of articles on sites like MMORPG.com asking "what went wrong?"

Which is pretty typical for about 90% of the MMO's that have come out since AC, UO and EQ1.

Far more of them fail in the first month then make it to the end of the first year.

Originally Posted by Arbalister

Not sure...but when I find out, I'll update the Lorebook page.

Snowlock has answerd in a different thread.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...tem-Beta-(LONG)

You can also destroy crafted relics for shards:

T1 Crafted - 32 Relic Shards
T2 Crafted - 79
T3 Crafted - 464

Lastly, you can decon the new PvMP runics. On the Refine tab, they're actually callled "Skill" relics:

Skill - 366 Relic Shards

Originally Posted by GarethB

Snowlock has answerd in a different thread.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...tem-Beta-(LONG)

Cool, thanks, I'll add that.

Originally Posted by NoRuff

OMG! The sky is falling!

* looks at the time table for changes permitted till update releases * nvm..

Despite the disclaimer on the Bullroarer boards, it is in fact very uncommon for significant changes to be made to proposed systems once they've made it to the beta stage. Minor tweaks to numbers, perhaps; wholesale scrapping of bad ideas, not so much. Devs and management generally have too much invested into these things to scrap them until they've inflicted them on the playerbase. Then, after two or more years of complaints, they might acknowledge that their new idea is a failure and make changes to it (see "legendary item system" and "radiance system").

I kinda wonder if people realise that they can keep their teir 9's and not destroy them or use them untill they have that perfect li which will take a whole day to get now.. then they dont have to remove anything from the li or replace it untill isengard goes live in which case they can pay for a scroll ONCE when they have a perfect lvl 70 li which will only take another day or two?

Look at all the changes not just one.

Yes, people realize they can keep their T9 relics. That's hardly any consolation to those who don't have them yet and won't be able to obtain them under the new system. Furthermore, it's a very bad precedent when a critical gameplay mechanic (recovering irreplaceable relics) is gated by spending Turbine points rather than by actual activity in the game. Players have to draw the line somewhere or the pencil-pushers at WB-Turbine will get the idea that they can put anything they like in the Turbine Store and the players will fork over the cash to buy the Turbine Points to buy the stuff.

So to respond to the original post, and using the link given in the first reply, here's the current state of new T6 and Extraordinary T6 relics

Gold Setting of Clear Thought(20 Will, 780 Tac Offence)
Gold Setting of the Abyssal Depths(20 Might, 780 Melee Offence)
Gold Setting of Precision(200 Morale, 780 Ranged Offence)
Gold Setting of Grace(200 Power, 780 Outgoing Healing)
Extraordinary Setting of Stability(-5% Item Wear Chance, 260 Block, Parry, Evade, 1300 Incoming Healing)
Extraordinary Setting of Beginnings(650 Melee Defense, 114 icpr, 20 Vitality)
Extraordinary Setting of Endings(+7.5% Devastate Magnitude, 520 Melee, Ranged, Tac Crit, 114 icmr)

Adamant Gem of the Crags(20 Vitality, 520 Melee Crit)
Adamant Gem of the Precise Eye(20 Agility, 520 Ranged Crit)
Adamant Gem of Lore(20 Fate, 520 Tac Crit)
Extraordinary Gem of Faith(+10% Partial Block, Parry Mitigation, 520 Block, 200 Morale)
Extraordinary Gem of Charity(650 Tac Defense, 780 Outgoing Healing, 200 Power)
Extraordinary Gem of Hope(260 Crit Defense, 520 Evade, 20 Might)

Subtle Rune of the Fortress(1040 Incoming Healing, 520 Block)
Subtle Rune of Readiness(114 icmr, 520 Parry)
Subtle Rune of the Sun(114 icpr, 520 Evade)
Extraordinary Rune of Courage(+10% Partial Evade, Parry Mitigation, 20 Agility, 520 Parry)
Extraordinary Rune of Power(650 Ranged Defense, 520 Melee, Ranged, Tac Offence, 20 Fate)
Extraordinary Rune of Wisdom(-2.5% Attack Duration, +780 Poison, Disease, Fear, Wound Resist, 20 Will)

Overall this set looks great (especially for hunters and healers - look at all that outgoing healing and ranged offence!) but the main problem I have with it is that it would cause too many classes to lose power,morale, and ICPR. The lack of morale, power and ICPR is so problematic imo that it seems like all non-tanks/hunters will lose all morale from relics and most non-healers will lose power and ICPR. (I realize Incoming healing wont be common for non-tank classes as well but they gave healers huge buffs to outgoing heals so it should balance out.)

Originally Posted by Arbalister

Far more of them fail in the first month then make it to the end of the first year.

True. For me the biggest feature of a game is the one that devs can't control. That's the player base itself. Some very promising games ended up with a player base that isn't fun for me to be around. And you just don't know what a game is going to be like until it's released despite all the glowing beta reviews. Ie, someone shows up in a game expected the second coming of PvP and then finds out everyone plays PvE instead; or vice versa.

So LotRO has a lot going for it still that new games aren't going to be able to steal. A player base that I can stand to play with. While not perfect it's still far preferable to the alternatives. It also has a very strong story driven game, a strong and consistent world base, very little spiky armor, etc. I just can't see that in a game like Rift.

Originally Posted by socom33

Overall this set looks great (especially for hunters and healers - look at all that outgoing healing and ranged offence!) but the main problem I have with it is that it would cause too many classes to lose power,morale, and ICPR. The lack of morale, power and ICPR is so problematic imo that it seems like all non-tanks/hunters will lose all morale from relics and most non-healers will lose power and ICPR. (I realize Incoming healing wont be common for non-tank classes as well but they gave healers huge buffs to outgoing heals so it should balance out.)

One comment - I note that these are the T6 and Level 65 relics, right? (haven't specifically gone to check yet...)

There *might* be some more useful/interesting level 60 relics - looks like all but one of the ones we have data on are exact duplicates of the Level 55 ones. I suspect a glitch...