Thread: Dev Diary Feedback: Update 2 Hunter Dev Diary

"The Hunter is one of the most straightforward classes in LOTRO. Find a foe, focus up, and kill it with arrows! If your enemy didn’t die, then kill them with dual melee weapons! In groups, allies will help keep enemies from ever getting into melee range, allowing Hunters to focus on their bows. Overall, this makes the Hunter fun, effective, and easy to play."

Read more from Brian 'Zombie Columbus' Aloisio in his latest developer diary and post your comments here!

Reserved as I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it all. Edits will follow as I process the details.

First of all...I'm floored by Penetrating Shot usable on the move. Here, let me show you my shocked face.



Bowmaster Changes: Wow. Wow! I honestly never expected we'd get away from the high threat stance we've had for so long. I can live with the damage hit in exchange for the huge threat reduction and reduced power cost penalty. I want to see all the changes in action before I say much more, but at first glance I'm very excited. The changes to Quality of Mercy and Barbed Fury are especially exciting. I can't tell which I like more but damn...good stuff.

Huntsman Changes: More interesting stuff. I'm really looking forward to playing around with Fleet Stance as a buff instead of a stance. Way to go ZC! Lots of other interesting bits in there as well, including making Press Onward a regular use heal and extra pips from QS.

ToF Changes: More good stuff. I love the fact that the capstone makes Explosive Arrow a stand alone perma-mez, and the legacy cuts it down to almost a 2 mob mez (barring induction times). AOE Poison cure without needing a trait is also fantastic surprise. Putting it as a 4 ToF trait is an elegant trade-off, I like it. Best of all is Barbed Hinderance. Being able to retain a large snare without having to be in S:Strength will be awesome.

Regarding TOF and the root on PS: Have you found a way to disable auto attacks so this root isn't instantly broken ZC? The changes to the combat system introduced in Mirkwood reder this root essentially useless as you can no longer disable auto attacks to prevent the root from instantly being broken. Or at least so we were told...how have you worked around this problem so that the root functionality is actually useful? Good move slashing the cool down in half either way.

Liking other little changes like the campfire update and new tomes. Nice!

Concerns: I hope Heartseeker isn't overpowered, especially in PvP with Camo/Burn Hot. I really like the idea of being able to use the skill in a regular rotation, but I don't want it to be a source of contention that gets us in trouble. Tune it well sir!

Wow.




Just wow.

I played a hunter some time ago so i may be wrong here but:
- overall nice work on the hunter. Nothing really concerning and nothing really overpowering.

I wish the burg had so much work

New Tier 5 and 6 recipes added for Wind-rider and Whisper-draw books

* Wind-rider tier 5 and 6 do not increase Power % reduction further. They instead add +Max Power.
* Whisper-draw tier 5 and 6 increase threat reduction and grant +Max Morale.

I've been looking forward to these for quite some time. Further comments will have to wait until I log in and take a closer look at some of the stuff.

Though the day is young, I wanted to get here and say I like it, before the pounding hordes come by and cry nerf. I like that you are better utilizing trait lines to focus types of play. Shorter cool downs and inductions means more times I can use it. I will try Fleet stance now and see if I like it. Thanks ZC!

Overall looks pretty good. Go Go STR stance =] Nice addition there, now it seems it will function a lot like Precision. Gotta take it e z after a few crits. Purge Poison is a nice bonus, both the change to make the affect happen at the beginning of the animation as well as the option for a full on AoE Purge. TY!! =] I will miss the bonus to STR when solo.

Turbine doesn't listen to players!

Oh wait...

yes they do. Nice! Can't wait to tinker with this stuff. Looks like someone took a serious look at what's there, what's used (and not) and came up with some novel ways to repurpose things, keeping Hunters easymode while allowing for the tinkerers to minmax some scary numbers. Looks like with a 4r 3b setup, Heartseeker would be on a 1m cooldown and a 2.7sec induction... time to find a bow with +HS damage for PvE?

I'd always sort of secretly hoped for a Zombie Columbus Hunter redux... and now (well, soon™) it's here.

The 20% movement speed you can gain associated with fleet stance, is that in-combat or just ooc? The two 10% bonuses, they do stack, right?

Taking a 15% damage reduction to AOE purge poison is not going to make me trait this line, also don't forget the extra damage reduction we take by either not being in BM and losing its damage bonus or not being in Huntsman and losing its induction bonus.

Being able to perma mezz is rather meh, tbh. Not even LM's do much of this anymore.

Overall though, its VERY cool. I love the swapping of some of the traitlines. I like the changes to bowmaster though I'm wondering how much dps we've been nerfed.

Not wild about losing my additional barbed bleed pulses, even if the damage increase makes the total dps a wash.

The 100% heal of Agile Rejoinder and the 40% slow off barbed arrow is WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN

And if we get that 20% in combat run speed as the diary appears to give us....... /drool

Originally Posted by NameAlreadyTaken

Have you found a way to disable auto attacks so this root isn't instantly broken ZC?

Doesn't tab off and back or click off and left select disable auto attack? There should be a grace period for root break anyway, usually is.

I really like the changes to burn hot and cool burn, It looks like something you'd actually use in a fight now, instead of just when you are messing around. I like the changes to heartseeker as well, 5s is just too long an induction. Hunter's ability to chain mez, when combined with bard's arrow really does open a CC-slot opportunity, which wasn't there before.

I like that P.poison can be an aoe, but I think that 4-deep in ToF is a little much, I would have liked to see it as 2-set, so you can still equip a different capstone.

These changes look fantastic, congrats Hunters on some much needed love

om nom nom nom!
So delicious!

Nice update! And I won't make Raskolnikov share his cake, I'll bring you one of your own.

It looks like considerable thought went in to this, there are some nice updates. It will be interesting to see how Huntsman compares with Bow Master considering BM will do less damage and Huntsman will have decreased inductions. It will definitely be worth while playing around with the different lines now.

The only one I'm still not sure about is the changes to HS, 2 minute CD, 3 second induction, it should still hit harder than I think you're going to let it hit; I so rarely use it now but will see what types of numbers I can get.

We might quibble over some changes, but overall it's heartening to see considered attention being paid to hunters.

Finally us hinters don't have to carry around a class item 25 lvls too low

Having read the last DevDiaries about Burgs, Minis and Hunters the aim seems to be making PvMP even more unbalanced than ever. Most changes will have massiv effects on PVP while MP Players don´t have equal benefits or additional skills, not to speak about traitlines which offer special boni.

And especially in case of hunters: Aggromanagement seems to be a skill which is not necessary in LOTRO anymore.

Overall, this looks pretty awesome...loving the removal of threat from the Bowmaster, and the Fellow-wide Purge (although I have to be 4 in Trapper).

I'm not so sure I'm thrilled with the change to Shot Through the Heart, though. With the reduction to base dmg to Heart Seeker, why not leave the +crit in? While I see the reasoning on changing it to the Scourging Blow-type crit, will it be the same effectiveness? I'm not sure we have any numbers as to what kind of increase Scourging Blow does when Barbed Arrow is applied, but I can't imagine it's anywhere near the +1300 that we have now.

Time will tell I guess; like any other change, it will have to be played with to make sure heh.

Mr. Aloisio, did you forget that the hunter is supposed to be an off tank?

How on earth am I supposed to be an off tank now with no threat generation in max tratited SS? Watcher Tentacles? Sch\Lib? Heck, I've tanked a 65 GB before. 40% 10-target ROA brings them right in.

I don't think I'll have enough threat now.

Can I please have some way to get more threat? A new book item perhaps? 25% is not enough to be an off tank. I know it sounds kinda silly but I'm being serious here.

From what I can tell.
Spike damage nerf
Power consumption buff
Overall, DPS may be up.
PvP, you lose the big crits
I still don't think anyone will go huntsman.

Cool Burn is pretty OP, I would be pretty angry if that useless champion skill "Fight On" is not significantly buffed when the champion update comes out. When you consider what Cool Burn does vs Fight on.

Awesome!! With the Press Onward change, Hunters will now have a much needed in-combat self heal! ^_^ Also Strength Stance FTW! \,,/,

Is ranged tanking dead? Or do Hunters think they can hold aggro from range without Strength Stance's +threat?

Originally Posted by ANewMachine

Is ranged tanking dead? Or do Hunters think they can hold aggro from range without Strength Stance's +threat?

"You are correct, sir" -- Ed McMahon

It seems to be dead. I'm telling ya, a new book that increases threat. It fixes it!

Originally Posted by interactii

Mr. Aloisio, did you forget that the hunter is supposed to be an off tank?

How on earth am I supposed to be an off tank now with no threat generation in max tratited SS? Watcher Tentacles? Sch\Lib? Heck, I've tanked a 65 GB before. 40% 10-target ROA brings them right in.

I don't think I'll have enough threat now.

Can I please have some way to get more threat? A new book item perhaps? 25% is not enough to be an off tank. I know it sounds kinda silly but I'm being serious here.

Good point, but you should still be able to hold aggro with pure DPS, provided everyone else limits their own. Certainly will make things more interesting.

Originally Posted by XeroD

Also Strength Stance FTW! \,,/,

Strength Stance will become a surprise to many hunters when others in precision are out-dpsing them where they had aggro before because of the fact that they generated more threat

Originally Posted by ANewMachine

Is ranged tanking dead? Or do Hunters think they can hold aggro from range without Strength Stance's +threat?

I´m tanking watchertantakles in precision all the time, all you need is a good skill rotation.

should be interesting to trait deep into huntsman and pop improved fleetness (hehe funny name) and traited needful haste and just watch the explosion of arrows.

I never tanked in S:S, the power draw was too high. A rotation of Barbed Arrow, Swift Bow and P-shot in Precision would hold aggro just as well.

One of the coolest things about this update is the nuances they've added to a class that was already heavily nuanced.

Hunter turrets are gonna suffer though. Those high power pool and icpr glass cannon builds just got null and voided. I love being ahead of the curve.

Originally Posted by Anuhart

Doesn't tab off and back or click off and left select disable auto attack? There should be a grace period for root break anyway, usually is.

It used to, pre Mirkwood, but not any more. Auto attacks happen outside of our control now, and moving off target doesn't necessarily prevent one from happening before you shift after you use PS. It made the skill problematic at best, and there isn't a work around.

There isn't any grace period on that root. Perhaps there is now and that's how it is being made useful? We shall see.

Originally Posted by ANewMachine

Is ranged tanking dead? Or do Hunters think they can hold aggro from range without Strength Stance's +threat?

Why would it be dead? And yes, I think I can hold aggro without the +Threat bonus.

Awesome changes. Not a lot of time before work, but I like what I read with scaling, trait line reworks, and the rest. I am looking forward to trying them out.

Originally Posted by ANewMachine

Is ranged tanking dead? Or do Hunters think they can hold aggro from range without Strength Stance's +threat?

Seeing as I use Precision in groups, and still have to watch my dps output, I don't think so...you might have to work more BA into your rotation, but if you aren't using it when tanking anyway...

Fantastic changes. Literally. I feel like the Dev behind this has approached it in the best possible way, with the results keeping us within the expected conventions of the game while still having a significant impact and adding complexity and utility to the class. I am happy with all the changes the exception potentially being...

Melee

* Blindside Critical Rating – Increased
* Low Cut Bleed Chance – increased to 50%
* Agile Rejoinder Heal Chance – Increased to 100%
*Press Onward Cooldown – Decreased to 90 seconds

These legacies will remain largely useless. The first three, it was a matter of potency not frequency that made them worthless.

Bow

* Quick Shot Critical Rating – Increased

Also will remain useless, unless you mean you guys have changed it from being +Rating as most endgame Hunters don't benefit from more Ranged Crit Rating being near or at the Cap (which also makes the Hail of Arrows trait lackluster).

Still, that is just legacies. No-one will ever be happy with them. Very good changes as a whole. Heartseeker sounds like it might be OP but without any real numbers yet it is too early to say.

There are a couple of nice changes but the changes to strength stance reflect more the desires of inexperienced hunters than experienced hunters. Having played a hunter since I bought the game in 2007, I understand how to DPS in a raid and how to conserve power as well (I learned this back in the great stealth power nerf during the fall of 2007). The reduction in threat will suck for those hunters who know when to use it to save a healer who has random aggro that the tank doesn't notice or is far out of the tank's aggro grabbing range. Basically I see the changes to strength stance as a 10% damage nerf to hunters who know how to play the class and a placation of those that never learned how to deal damage, manage threat and keep power all at the same time.

In my opinion the 10% damage nerf doesn't add salt to the wound of the last 5% reduction to strength stance, it just adds another gaping wound to the "nuker" classification the class is supposed to be. I guess it is a good thing I learned how to kite because I have the feeling I'm going to be doing more of it than ever.

Originally Posted by NameAlreadyTaken

Why would it be dead? And yes, I think I can hold aggro without the +Threat bonus.

I can if other people DPS low. I've worked with this a lot because I always tank Sch\Lib. I can't always pull stuff off others who are doing their job when I am 25% SS, I can always with 40. I've forgotten to change my traits before and you can really, really tell.

Originally Posted by NameAlreadyTaken

It used to, pre Mirkwood, but not any more. Auto attacks happen outside of our control now, and moving off target doesn't necessarily prevent one from happening before you shift after you use PS. It made the skill problematic at best, and there isn't a work around.

There isn't any grace period on that root. Perhaps there is now and that's how it is being made useful? We shall see.

I'm sure one of the Combat Options you can turn off is "skills enable auto-attack" or something similar. If you have that turned off and turn off auto-attack before you use the root then you shouldn't do an auto-attack after using PS.

Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the updates (especially after reading the less than stellar burg updates).

Fleet Stance is gone! New class books! Bright Campfire even got some love! We're out of things to point at and scream; "See, the devs hate us".

I will definitely miss tanking with the best single-target threat generation in the game; but it's a trade-off I would gladly make any day. Plus, I'm sure I'll still find a way to hunter-tank.

I can't wait to play with these new changes. I may even try out Trapper of Foes, although that -15% DPS hit is still hard to swallow.

The Heart Seeker changes are brilliant. After every update there's always some dumb hunter that posts a crazy crit with To Arms, Oathbreakers, Reveal Weakness & every other buff/debuff going that ends up getting the class nerfed. Having a smaller, more reliable skill is a welcome change.

I retired my hunter two nerf bats ago. I have grown to love how turbine attempts to make it sound good when they nerf a class. LOL /salute

This looks great, I can't wait for book 3.

Originally Posted by Kaffeekanne

Strength Stance will become a surprise to many hunters when others in precision are out-dpsing them where they had aggro before because of the fact that they generated more threat

I just want to point out...

In precision you will get +13% (maxed leg) crit multiplier

In Strength stance you will get +10% (trait line bonus) crit multiplier AND + 20% damage with a now pretty minor power cost, so if the hunter gets pumped power IE twins shadow boss... I think they should still be able to put out enough dps to tank...


Shame once the new raid comes out I am never going back to BG to test it

Edit: Just wanted to say the +threat book idea is really good. Would love to see it put in the game.

Quite an interesting & frankly jaw dropping update that is going to spark some considerable controversy in the STR:P to Str:S debate.

Originally Posted by Aelin-uial

There are a couple of nice changes but the changes to strength stance reflect more the desires of inexperienced hunters than experienced hunters. Having played a hunter since I bought the game in 2007, I understand how to DPS in a raid and how to conserve power as well (I learned this back in the great stealth power nerf during the fall of 2007). The reduction in threat will suck for those hunters who know when to use it to save a healer who has random aggro that the tank doesn't notice or is far out of the tank's aggro grabbing range. Basically I see the changes to strength stance as a 10% damage nerf to hunters who know how to play the class and a placation of those that never learned how to deal damage, manage threat and keep power all at the same time.

In my opinion the 10% damage nerf doesn't add salt to the wound of the last 5% reduction to strength stance, it just adds another gaping wound to the "nuker" classification the class is supposed to be. I guess it is a good thing I learned how to kite because I have the feeling I'm going to be doing more of it than ever.

Now, if we can only get you working for the turbine Dev team. Common sense seems to be thrown out the window.