If I lost my house and had to go looking for another, I'd be furious. One month isn't nearly long enough, and it isn't necessary to boot people that fast. It took them over 50 months to get into this situation, and if people were evicted after 12 or 24 months, huge numbers of houses would come open. That's way, way more than enough to solve this issue because housing capacity greatly exceeds demand. By years.
And for the record, I've been here as long as Khafar... perhaps longer, even.
Doubtful, unless you started on the very first or second day of the Friends & Family alpha in July 2006. Due to real life obligations, I wasn't able to start until the 3rd day... but still a month before the regular alpha started in August. Not that it really matters - I'm sure we were both here when housing arrived.
I say anyone who hasn't logged in on a specific server in more than one (1) year's time, is to be evicted from their house on that specific server. So not account-wide evictions, but just for the server(s) one is not active on any longer.
The time starts counting on the last log-on on the specific server, not on the last payment of housing upkeep.
Why the server specific? People change servers, leave their old chars behind including their houses, never return.
Why the timer start on last log-in? It signifies the minimum of activity on the server. That should be enough to be able to hold on to your house even if you don't pay upkeep. Paying upkeep just lets you use the house. Log-in from time to time and you get to keep it, pay upkeep and you can also use it.
This has gone on long enough. My suggestion will clean house in a just way.
As Khafar suggested, give people proper prior notice through e-mail to their account.
So, I have a question for you, how do you know that these are not alts of other people on the server who have actually missed the escrow alert for whatever reason. For example, I logged on my minstrel, had been deeding for several days, and so had built up several alerts - which I neglected to clear. My house is under my hunter's name (who I haven't logged in to for several months). So, in that time, I had been playing mini, and doing deeds for about a month and a half. The only reason I realized my house was in escrow was because I actually went there to put something in storage for my hunter. So, how do you know that something similar hasn't happened to some of these people and you are just going off the deep end for no reason? Seriously? Should people lose their houses just because they haven't logged on an ALT who's name is on the house?
Seems sort of closed minded to me, but oh well...
Currently 1 week before your house goes into defualt ALL toons on the account get an in game mail. Not just the one that bought the house. Plus as you obviously know all toons on the account get the housing repair Icon on their alerts. This shows up 1 week before the house actually goes into default. If the one month grace period is enacted this will be 5 weeks without noticing this icon on any of your toons.
When you say what if the person didn't see the icon because they had more alerts then can show up I have to say I'm a little incredulous this could happen. But I do know that of which you speak. I know for a couple weeks after the little crossed sword thing for joining skirms first came out explaining to many people to look over where their alerts (mail notification icon) was and if they had 5 of them to click them until they cross swords showed up. Many a person was like OH WOW Thank you. So yes. If for 5 weeks you went along without ever clearing your alerts you would miss the rent due icon. But you would have also recieved a notice in game 1 week before your house went into defualt, then if they ever re-instate foreclosure I assume they would do some of the things suggested in this thread, which would include sending a second in game mail when you go into default as well as an email to the registered email address tied to the account.
If all of these mails as well as the rent due icon fail to find you then yes, Sorry you are the .01% of poor people that just lost your house because of something other then simply not caring about it enough to pay the rent or some real life distraction and must go through the trauma of buying a new house.
Sorry. But at least with foreclosure in place there will be one available for you to buy.
Another thing I'd love to see is separate housing for each character. --- worth maybe 500 or 700 TP
I like that idea. Maybe just one or two extra house per account for 1kTP each with the positive effect that there's something more to sell in the store then just new horses.
The thread at all indicates that many ppl like it to see the orphans gone.
In my case our kinship once moved to a new home-Ini. and we did try to occupy all houses to be together in the same instance. That was a 80+ Gold effort. But we couldnt get 2 Advance-Houses unfortunately. They're gone since then and the owners never came back again. Some new F2P players have joined us over time and took some of the small houses with the same effect .. the houses are blocked from ppl who wont come back.
I rather like to see this cleaned up by Turbine then searching a new instance for me and my loyal mates again.
I logged into an ancient toon/server from when I just started playing this game over 4 years ago. I thought, hey, gotta check out my old toon, maybe play him a little. I ported to my house, saw my old neighborhood is a ghost town and honestly was a little demoralized. I think Turbine needs to honestly figure this housing dilemma out.
If I lost my house and had to go looking for another, I'd be furious. One month isn't nearly long enough, and it isn't necessary to boot people that fast. It took them over 50 months to get into this situation, and if people were evicted after 12 or 24 months, huge numbers of houses would come open. That's way, way more than enough to solve this issue because housing capacity greatly exceeds demand. By years.
Doubtful, unless you started on the very first or second day of the Friends & Family alpha in July 2006. Due to real life obligations, I wasn't able to start until the 3rd day... but still a month before the regular alpha started in August. Not that it really matters - I'm sure we were both here when housing arrived.
Khafar
Heh, I was here for the first beta, so we're roughly contemporary, I suppose.
In any case, I don't see that a month is a short time, but the period is something that could be negotiated. The point is that it not be too long, or people will lose interest. A year is FAR too long. I'm of the feeling that even 6 months is too long. Perhaps 2 or 3 months would be more viable. In any case, they HAVE to do something.
Mandli: Now I know how the elves feel. All the magic is leaving Middle Earth.
There's no real use for houses anyway. Seriously, yard decorations, 1-2 storage chests and inside decorations? Don't remember anyone in the movies owning a house.
Course, I own one. But I'm rarely there. I just have it since my neighbor isn't gaming due to lack of internet living in cow town nowhere in the United States, so I'm doing the upkeep on it.
After 6-9 months of housing default, Turbine sends an e-mail to the account holder offering:
500TP to come back if you release your house (done via e-mail or in game). The 500 TP will be activated by code so you could effectively assign it to any account. You must release your house and not buy a house in the same housing area for at least 1 month. If account does not buy another house in that neighborhood for 1 month, you get the code via e-mail.
After 6-9 months of housing default, Turbine sends an e-mail to the account holder offering:
500TP to come back if you release your house (done via e-mail or in game). The 500 TP will be activated by code so you could effectively assign it to any account. You must release your house and not buy a house in the same housing area for at least 1 month. If account does not buy another house in that neighborhood for 1 month, you get the code via e-mail.
So I can spend a few gold to farm TP?
I like it.
"Sam thinks it a queer place, but I think he likes it, too." - Frodo
"If you're in advertising or marketing, kill yourself." - Bill Hicks
Please, for the love of god, a housing update. This game has an extremely limited cosmetic clothing portfolio, no vanity pets, and player housing is a joke. It was clearly created with the POTENTIAL to be a great roleplaying forum, but the developers seem to have abandoned roleplay development in favour of quest expansions and instances. Would it really hurt profits that much to give us ONE housing update? Foreclose the houses on inactive accounts, add some more server space, let us buy additional houses via the Store, release some new furniture styles and deco? Maybe even introduce a new housing development or two, in other regions? Just for a change of scenery?
I've been with LotRO about 7 months now, but I'm still looking for an MMO that takes its roleplaying subscribers seriously. Without the community and the ability to customize character and environment, it's just a really crowded console game. And the fact that cosmetic clothing is the only realy "rp" type update in several years makes me despair for my future here.
After 6-9 months of housing default, Turbine sends an e-mail to the account holder offering:
500TP to come back if you release your house (done via e-mail or in game). The 500 TP will be activated by code so you could effectively assign it to any account. You must release your house and not buy a house in the same housing area for at least 1 month. If account does not buy another house in that neighborhood for 1 month, you get the code via e-mail.
Can you explain further why Turbine owes anything to people who have left the game over people who are actively playing?
Sure, some people take breaks, which is why I'm for a lore appropriate period of 13 months of non-payment to release a house; but I'd agree to any period of time to foreclose, 13 months is just a number to shoot for.
Face it, many people who own houses have left the game for good, I know this as I use and pay upkeep on 3 houses of former players. I have other friends that stopped playing 1-2 years ago, and despite my gentle nudge to come back and play, they aren't coming back either.
Can you explain further why Turbine owes anything to people who have left the game over people who are actively playing?
Sure, some people take breaks, which is why I'm for a lore appropriate period of 13 months of non-payment to release a house; but I'd agree to any period of time to foreclose, 13 months is just a number to shoot for.
Face it, many people who own houses have left the game for good, I know this as I use and pay upkeep on 3 houses of former players. I have other friends that stopped playing 1-2 years ago, and despite my gentle nudge to come back and play, they aren't coming back either.
Why? So Turbine can tap another source of income. 500TP as incentive to free up a house and maybe have a player return, to perhaps spend money again? Free up the housing is a bone to toss to the active players. Am I the only one to think this is good marketing? Why should Turbine care about people who are already playing and paying? (Ok that was a joke.) Even so, getting people back seems to me to be a boon to the game.
Allow player to deposit up to 6 months upkeep ahead of time (not 6 weeks as it is now). If at any time the house is 6 weeks overdue in fees it is foreclosed. That effectively gives everyone 7 1/2 months between logins to keep their house. If that is too hard then tough luck, that player really isn't adding much to the game logging in less then once a year.
Heh, I was here for the first beta, so we're roughly contemporary, I suppose.
In any case, I don't see that a month is a short time, but the period is something that could be negotiated. The point is that it not be too long, ..... A year is FAR too long. I'm of the feeling that even 6 months is too long. Perhaps 2 or 3 months would be more viable. In any case, they HAVE to do something.
YES!!
***************************** THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!!!***************** ****************
This whole thing baffles me. How does a company continue to ignore the fact that people that no longer play the game have 'in game' benefits that people that currently are playing and most of us PAYING do not have.
I mean at some level this has to have at least been brought up in a meeting. I can see it now. Some low level employee tasked with reading the forums and keeping tabs on other player feedback is at a meeting and some important honcho looks at him.
"Well Fred, do you have anything to report. "
"Yes mam, the current subscribers are bellyaching again about the lack of available player housing."
"Fred, refresh me on this, why again is there no housing for current players?"
"Well mam, all the housing stock is owned by people that used to play. See everyone that ever played bought a house and once a house is bought, it remains theirs forever. Regardless if they pay upkeep or even play, so 70% - 85% of the total available housing is tied up by people that currently do not play"
"Fred - let me get this straight - we have an in game fee to own housing, a weekly fee, but if people don't pay this they continue to hold the house?? Why don't we foreclose on the houses?"
"Well mam, that idea has been kicked around, and the general feeling is that these people that no longer play the game, and no longer care enough about their house to pay upkeep, might not like losing their house. Not that they would know it, but if they did they might not like it."
YES!!
***************************** THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!!!***************** ****************
This whole thing baffles me. How does a company continue to ignore the fact that people that no longer play the game have 'in game' benefits that people that currently are playing and most of us PAYING do not have.
I mean at some level this has to have at least been brought up in a meeting. I can see it now. Some low level employee tasked with reading the forums and keeping tabs on other player feedback is at a meeting and some important honcho looks at him.
"Well Fred, do you have anything to report. "
"Yes mam, the current subscribers are bellyaching again about the lack of available player housing."
"Fred, refresh me on this, why again is there no housing for current players?"
"Well mam, all the housing stock is owned by people that used to play. See everyone that ever played bought a house and once a house is bought, it remains theirs forever. Regardless if they pay upkeep or even play, so 70% - 85% of the total available housing is tied up by people that currently do not play"
"Fred - let me get this straight - we have an in game fee to own housing, a weekly fee, but if people don't pay this they continue to hold the house?? Why don't we foreclose on the houses?"
"Well mam, that idea has been kicked around, and the general feeling is that these people that no longer play the game, and no longer care enough about their house to pay upkeep, might not like losing their house. Not that they would know it, but if they did they might not like it."
"Ok, I see. Well carry on."
LOL HUMOUR IS GOOD......
May get the point across to a few others when serious discussion can not.
Because? It took them four years to get into the current situation, and that's only on the most populous server - one that has literally twice the login volume of a number of other servers. So why would "only" opening up 50% or 75% of the abandoned houses be insufficient?
I'll agree that the longer someone's been away, the less likely it is that they'll come back. However, with tons of Lifetimers and tons more Premium customers, this game is far more likely to have non-continuous play by its customers than many others. That's part of the reason people chose those payment styles.
Yes, change policies to make sure current customers always have a good selection of houses. No, there's no need to go way overboard in evicting people who have paid real money to the game company, particularly in the first year or 18 months when they're most likely to return. If you want to evict purely free players after a month or three, that's OK. They have less investment, and are probably less likely to return. But those who have paid, and were told by Turbine that they'd have their houses indefinitely? No.
or simply add a dozen neighbourhoods......problem (partially) solved
Problem is thats the problem server resources can not support spawning more Neighborhoods.
In many cases all the possible spawns have been used up and the houses stand empty.
Booting Bums Out that have not Pyed upkeep have not played in a year or more is the
only workable and Immediate option.
I see the simple thing here is if a toon still has the 2 gold cap lock they can't buy a house.
As for the escrow thing mentioned in the above posts I like the idea of perminent till such time as a person buys a new house. On buying a new house they get a notice as they buy it that they have things in escrow from a previous house they owned and they now have 1 week, 1 month which ever to clear it out.
Note the distiction. Not 1 month after logging in, but 1 month after buying a new house.
This takes care of the below post
and prevents the abuse of using escrow as storage.
Hmmm....I definitely like your suggestion much better--gives them time to shop around and earn the gold since that was a concern of a previous post. As far as I can reason through it....they can really put the stuff in their vault.
I must also say it seems like a lot of huff for something that isn't really used much in game either--irregardless of my level, most of my time in game is spent chatting in a busy hub, questing with friends and kinnies, or running an instance. There's only so much you can shift around in a house and in many cases you have to be out and about to get trophies and such. I can almost see why Turbine is slacking in this area. It's certainly not convenient storage....I prefer a vault by a crafting zone for the most part. It's more convenient, it's easy, and it gets me on my way faster to my next objective.
Nehl the Rune-Keeper | Ramiell the Minstrel
\M/ ^_^ \M/
It's certainly not convenient storage....I prefer a vault by a crafting zone for the most part. It's more convenient, it's easy, and it gets me on my way faster to my next objective.
For crafting your correct that is more convienient but what about non crafting Items.....
Like all those Maps for the 10 TP and cartographer title for each alt.
Think about it create alts pop to your House open the chest pull out the maps earn 10 TP....
Rinse Repeat an endless supply of TP to earn all due to a easy convieinent House with storage.
Thats at Least 20 TP earned per alt for the 2 cartographer Deeds. Well worth having a house for those that know
how to use it properly for storage and getting your alts there quick and easy.
I like housing so people I play with can all meet up someplace. During the time between playing together we can get spread out but we can all just port to house and meet at the vault guy. Trade stuff - do our vaulting chores, repair with the 20% discount buy rations decide who is going to play what and where we going then have someone get on a hunter - if for someone actually does not feel like playing a hunter at that time port us all someplace.
Is just a really convenient way to get together. I saw one of the people that argues for perpetual ownership regardless of paying upkeep state as one of his reasons is he and some friends bought houses at same time and wants them to remain in his neighborhood. But I bet his friends from three years ago don't actually play anymore. I know this is what happens to me. But I make new friends. In the past (before we ran out of houses on bradywine) I could just abandon my old house surrounded by shuddered houses and buy in a new neighborhood with my new friends.
If foreclosure was in place I would not need to. My new friends could just buy one of the shuddered houses in my current neighborhood. This is what I want to make this other person understand. If foreclosure starts it does not kick your friends out of your neighborhood. It enables your actively playing friends to buy in your neighborhood. With 250 spawned neighborhoods, 325 spawned for the Bree housing zones, given the current rate of houses going into delinquent status, there would always be houses available in your neighborhood.
The same with Kins. People say they have a house in a neighborhood with their kin but how many people in your kin do? How many houses in your kin neighborhood are now shuttered? Wouldn't it be nice to have those shuttered houses become available for current 'ACTIVE' kin mates. This is what foreclosure brings.
Originally Posted by NickStern
For crafting your correct that is more convienient but what about non crafting Items.....
Like all those Maps for the 10 TP and cartographer title for each alt.
Think about it create alts pop to your House open the chest pull out the maps earn 10 TP....
Rinse Repeat an endless supply of TP to earn all due to a easy convieinent House with storage.
Thats at Least 20 TP earned per alt for the 2 cartographer Deeds. Well worth having a house for those that know
how to use it properly for storage and getting your alts there quick and easy.
what are these cartographer deeds you speak of?
Where does on get the maps?
My inner roleplayer causes me to usually return my characters to their house (most are currently hanging out in 21stHall). In two years I've only seen 3 other people in my instance (Domhyl, Thorin's Halls), which greatly reduces any sense of immersion or vitality in the game.
Definitely free up redundant houses (Kafar's ideas seem appropriate) and then entice people back to their housing instances: raise the repair discount from 15% to 20%, provide a useable crafting area and consider adding farming fields (making it easier to make items/food and leave them in your house chests for your other characters). Superior crafting could be accessed through some new doorway/structure upon gaining sufficient/significant rep?
I always return to my house before a log out. I NEVER talk to anyone in the crafting hall unless I have prearranged to meet them there and tho my inner roleplayer always makes sure my crafting tables are independent of the fixed structures around me, other people aren't so...'polite' and I get tired of having someone put their table on top of 'me'. So.. yes, I want a crafting table in my house.. and a stove and a ..sorry.. wrong thread..
The abandoned houses issue needs to be addressed, NOW.
See the link in my sig for a few more ideas.
Originally Posted by Adder
We [B]BUY our homes. The maintenance fees are the equivalent of current-day Home Owner Association fees paid to keep the community maintained and costs that we incur to keep our homes up to the standards and rules set by that HOA.
You contradict your self If you Own the house as you said in another thread then Turbine can not foreclose and take them away.
You seem to want it both ways That Turbine can take away abandon houses that someone BOUGHT But no longer Uses.
But you also want individual Players to own and be able to do what they will with the houses.
YOU CAN NOT have it both ways it is one or the other
At this point, I don't think the discussion serves any real purpose. What's needed (and what has BEEN needed for a LONG time) is some kind of comment from Turbine about this.
We've been hashing this topic out for years now, with NO comment from Turbine whatsoever.
We need to hear something from them now.
Mandli: Now I know how the elves feel. All the magic is leaving Middle Earth.
You contradict your self If you Own the house as you said in another thread then Turbine can not foreclose and take them away.
You seem to want it both ways That Turbine can take away abandon houses that someone BOUGHT But no longer Uses.
But you also want individual Players to own and be able to do what they will with the houses.
YOU CAN NOT have it both ways it is one or the other
Why do people argue just for the sake of arguing?
No, it is NOT one or the other...
Abandoned buildings and houses are condemned and reclaimed every day in RL. In the game, even though we have bought the house, if we leave the game for extended periods of time (and in many cases we're talking years) with, in all probability, no intention of returning, then the local government (Turbine) has the right and responsibility to 'condemn' those abandoned homes so that neighborhoods can flourish once again, just as inner cities do and suburban communities do out here in the real world.
But, just like in RL, if we stay in our purchased homes, yeah, we should be able to do pretty much what we want with that home as long as we are within the local ordinances and don't break any laws while doing so. If we then decide at some point to relocate, we should be able to sell that house instead of just walking away and getting nothing back for our investment.
I admit I didn't take the time to read this entire thread so this may have been mentioned before. LOTRO has been around for 5 years. A lot of people try it for a while and then move on, that's what they do, period. They never come back to check out new content because it wasn't their game. It clicked for a while, they even bought a house to see what it was like, but then they moved on to other MMOs, other types of games, and their consoles. They won't come back...ever. And, although it may be morbid to think about...people die every day. I would venture a guess that over the years there may have been hundreds of people who once played and bought a house, that have now passed on to the next life and therefore they will never play this game again either. An early suggestion was to free up a house after 2 years, if that isn't enough time, make it 3 years.
Yes, there are always new neighborhoods, but a lot of us would like to have a house in the same neighborhood as out kinship home, or our friends' homes, etc. Heck, if 3 years is too soon, make it 4 years...just put some sort of limitation on vacancies.
You contradict your self If you Own the house as you said in another thread then Turbine can not foreclose and take them away.
You seem to want it both ways That Turbine can take away abandon houses that someone BOUGHT But no longer Uses.
But you also want individual Players to own and be able to do what they will with the houses.
YOU CAN NOT have it both ways it is one or the other
I own my current house 'out of game' but if I don't pay my tax bill the county will take it away.
There is no contradiction in 'owning' a house and losing it for failure to comply with ownership rules. I always laugh at the thought of that poor hillbilly who hit the lotery for 40 million after taxes bought a house in miami fl, didn't pay his homeowners dues and they foreclosed and sold it. Bought a house for 7 million lost it because he failed to pay 1000 in homeowners dues and the new owner bought it for 1 million from the homeowners association.
What is a contradiction in this game is that there is a weekly fee associated with homeowner ship but you do not lose your home for failure to pay it.
What is that???
And before you say the simple answer is to do away with the fee I say sillyboy. Collecting the in game toy money is not the point. Foreclosing on unused houses is the point. Failure to pay upkeep being the best way to determine if the house is activily used.
Not paying upkeep = not using the house.
Foreclose on it. Let someone who will use it buy it.
And before you say the simple answer is to do away with the fee I say sillyboy. Collecting the in game toy money is not the point. Foreclosing on unused houses is the point. Failure to pay upkeep being the best way to determine if the house is activily used.
Well actually, I believe collecting the in-game toy money was originally the main point of it. The game needs gold sinks that will take as much money out of the in-game economy as what enters the in-game economy through vendor-trash loot drops. (Of course, all the new regions that have been added since 2007 have higher levels with higher-valued drops, but the housing fees have stayed constant, so they're not nearly as effective of a gold sink as they used to be and we've got some major inflation going on. The game needs some new gold sinks.) At the beginning when foreclosure was in place, it was there to encourage actually paying the housing dues. Since foreclosure was taken out, the lockout has taken over that function.
Foreclosure to free up homes for other people to buy has only become necessary within the past couple years or so. For the first three years or a little more, the game kept up perfectly well with permanent ownership (which is why I think three years before foreclosure would likely be plenty to take care of the current shortage problems).
(I agree on your other points, though, about foreclosure being reasonable as well as necessary.)
I own my current house 'out of game' but if I don't pay my tax bill the county will take it away.
[...]
What is a contradiction in this game is that there is a weekly fee associated with homeowner ship but you do not lose your home for failure to pay it.
What is that???
What that is is not merely an apples-to-oranges comparison, it's an apples-to-plastic fan blades comparison. LotRO is a game. Real-life economic principles and values have no bearing on those in a computer game.
Foreclose on it. Let someone who will use it buy it.
As countless others have said (and as countless others will say), just buy a different house. There will always be another one for the same price (more or less).
Of course, all this would not be a problem if housing were instanced at the dwelling level (like EQ2) rather than the neighborhood level.
Last edited by maxjenius; Jun 04 2012 at 10:17 PM.
I afree with this houseing should be foreclosed on after a time period of not paying. But they should make it reasonable and if you are going away from the game for a bit but coming back like say in 2 months there should be a way that they wouldn't forclose.
I afree with this houseing should be foreclosed on after a time period of not paying. But they should make it reasonable and if you are going away from the game for a bit but coming back like say in 2 months there should be a way that they wouldn't forclose.
You've neglected the reason why foreclosing was removed. For military personel. Deploy to Iraq for 6 months, come home, and LOTRO has foreclosed on you while you fought for their freedom.
Honestly, just increasing it so we can pay a year in advance should be sufficient.
You've neglected the reason why foreclosing was removed. For military personel. Deploy to Iraq for 6 months, come home, and LOTRO has foreclosed on you while you fought for their freedom.
Honestly, just increasing it so we can pay a year in advance should be sufficient.
I didn't neglect it, I just don't buy it. Military personnel still have access to the internet elsewhere in the world, and if they're actually sitting in a foxhole for 4 years, then they have friends and kinmates who can be given permission rights to pay the upkeep, if it's that important to them.
Plus, my suggestion would have meant that they not actually lose anything if they were forclosed on. It's not an excuse, in my opinion.
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