Thread: More rep horses coming in Lotro Store.. the rep system is ruined :/

Again: Really?

I don’t really care is someone wants to pay $15 for a worse horse, just a horse in the end.

I got all my rep horses through game play and enjoyed getting them.

Originally Posted by Cithryth

Just want to point out, that 'Warden Steed' doesn't sound like an existing rep mount, except in name. It says it has a 'saddle bag' and is decorated with 'the seven stars of Westernesse'... no horse currently has that.

It could be the new Angmar Steed.

Congratulations! Turbine just created new horses for people who create threads like these:

For the "they're selling the rare horse in the store" people - the horse has TWO rear ends and runs in both directions!

For the "Turbine doesn't care" folks - the horse has only 3 legs and runs in a circle!

For the "Doom and Gloomers" - the horse mounts YOU! (Erm... by that I mean YOU get the saddle and do all the running...)

Originally Posted by jayssen

LOL - it probably took so long because the only people left playing this game are the "I love Turbine, put everything in the store because I can't be stuffed earning it in game because I have a life, wife, husband, job and more money than sense."

Meanwhile, I agree, the rep system is a joke now. But I think that in an effort to make it look like this game is alive and kicking Turbine keep pushing the store, adding more things, sending out more email about the store etc etc. Won't it be refreshing when they actually add something meaningful to the game this year and they can actually advertise something other than "Win Turbine points!" or "50% off this pointless item in the store!!"

Sigh.

I have ten characters in total. Makes more sense to me to buy something from the store for $10 than spend another couple of months of my life grinding it on another bloody alt that i've done allready more times than I care to think about.

I'm not bothered if those are the only people left in the game, they will still contribute a lot of capital to the continuation of a hobby I like.

Seems to me they're having more fun than some people that seem to be playing the forums and pissing and moaning about something they obviously no longer like. That is what does not make any sense to me. Why stay in a game if your not happy? Move on or take a break.

hmm here is a suggestion to Turbine/WB.. it seems that these people want to buy rep mounts from the store even if its like twenty $. Well next rep horses should cost like 50 $ yay that way people will spend much money and Turbine will get more rich than it has already become with free to play and that way Turbine will add massive content in lotro and do lots of improvements
Come on Turbine/WB, i am sure that if you add a ''special'' mount for 50$ people will buy it(not me ofcourse , i am not dumb as others seems to be here in the forums)and you will make lots $ and you will make lotro better or you will ruined it ,depends on hwo you will use the $
Isnt thsi what you want? people will buy your 50$ store exclusive mount because they just want
Anyway just an idea

Originally Posted by Khafar

...He's helping to fund more game development that I'll probably enjoy. It would be a different story if they were going for 50 TP each, but that's not the case...

One hopes this is how the system works...so far all we've gotten is MORE mounts. It's the LOTRO version of crack.

Enough with the mounts! Some folks may still be distracted by the "Pretty Pony of the Week" but I want some real content added to the game.

Originally Posted by Eric...

hmm here is a suggestion to Turbine/WB.. it seems that these people want to buy rep mounts from the store even if its like twenty $. Well next rep horses should cost like 50 $ yay that way people will spend much money and Turbine will get more rich than it has already become with free to play and that way Turbine will add massive content in lotro and do lots of improvements
Come on Turbine/WB, i am sure that if you add a ''special'' mount for 50$ people will buy it(not me ofcourse , i am not dumb as others seems to be here in the forums)and you will make lots $ and you will make lotro better or you will ruined it ,depends on hwo you will use the $
Isnt thsi what you want? people will buy your 50$ store exclusive mount because they just want
Anyway just an idea

$15-$20 is the standerd price for store mounts in MMORPG (P2P & F2P) Making a mount 150% more expensive than the rest would make no sense.

Originally Posted by Grampsaz

Speaking of Horses..Left a dead one around here somewhere, anyone see it??

Seriously... it's starting to really stink, too. Time to bury it.

Originally Posted by RatHeadedGranny

One hopes this is how the system works...so far all we've gotten is MORE mounts. It's the LOTRO version of crack.

Enough with the mounts! Some folks may still be distracted by the "Pretty Pony of the Week" but I want some real content added to the game.

The Pony of the week is not affecting the development of new content. Assuming it is reuse of any existing skin, it doubt costs Turbine more than one development staff hour.

Any horse being released for sale this week was put in the game as part of the last major content update. Turbine has been holding them secret. Turbine can only sell items that already exist in the live load.

Ah, the sacred rep horses and their weaker cash cousins. It doesn't get any better than this. When it's a slow news day in the Whineland, we'll always have horses to complain about. They're too strong, they're too weak, they're too pretty, their too expensive, they're too cheap. They make me weep. I might lose sleep. It cuts so deep.

People will complain about the tiniest things. It's a mount for crying out loud. A horse. You can either earn it in game or buy it from the store.

Originally Posted by Ayrolen

Seriously... it's starting to really stink, too. Time to bury it.

About as much as the Turbine store.

OP, if you want to change something, don't bother with these threads. You're arguing with people with suits and briefcases, and they just don't care. They care about getting your money to boost revenues, not about the lore and the non-existence of rune-keepers in it, or about the integrity of the rep horses in LotRO.

Support with your money a pure MMO that represents the ideals you believe in, because there are still a few out there, and they need you. Maybe there your forum posts will also be more appreciated.

Originally Posted by VPQRDE

About as much as the Turbine store.

OP, if you want to change something, don't bother with these threads. You're arguing with people with suits and briefcases, and they just don't care. They care about getting your money to boost revenues, not about the lore and the non-existence of rune-keepers in it, or about the integrity of the rep horses in LotRO.

Support with your money a pure MMO that represents the ideals you believe in, because there are still a few out there, and they need you. Maybe there your forum posts will also be more appreciated.

And you're here just to remind all of us. How sweet! Thank you. What would we ever do without good people like you to set us straight? A pure and egalitarian MMO that inspires heartfelt belief? Now that's awesome!

Originally Posted by Khafar

I play for my own enjoyment, and don't really care how some stranger plays. If he wants to drop $100 on horses for his main character, great! He's helping to fund more game development that I'll probably enjoy

+rep for sensible thinking (imo)

It's interesting how anyone can invest so much of their life and emotions into some games. They are a nice temporary escape from the blahs of life, or maybe something fun to do with friends a little bit, but that's about it (for some at least).

Also...

Originally Posted by WarDad71

+rep for sensible thinking (imo)

It's interesting how anyone can invest so much of their life and emotions into some games. They are a nice temporary escape from the blahs of life, or maybe something fun to do with friends a little bit, but that's about it (for some at least).

Also...

love it ^^


also, yay! horsies!

As someone who loves the rep horses and collects horses in game I was a little upset to see some of the so called special horses in the store. I choose to work for mine and all that matters is how I feel about the game and my place in middle earth.

Everything is about money both in game and outside of it. We either have to adapt or crawl into a hole.

(note: These are not PRIZED faction mounts, rather their lesser siblings. They are identical in appearance
but have significantly less HP than their big brother counterparts.)

I want to buy DG armor with TP please... But please make it with 20 radiance instead of 30, so people wont complain.



p.s. why do I get the feeling that will one day happen?

Originally Posted by Saxzon

I want to buy DG armor with TP please... But please make it with 20 radiance instead of 30, so people wont complain.



p.s. why do I get the feeling that will one day happen?

Hold your horses!!! (Hah! I can't believe I was able to sneak that in...)

I'm pretty sure that combat gear is the solid black line that Turbine won't cross. They know about the many other Free Games that have only limited success because of that very thing.

Yeah, it's just a horse. If you have so many issues with the OP post then why reply ? You don't have to and the thread will just die. What I do keep seeing people posting that it "funds" content for us. Well, what content ? Re-hashed old instances are not NEW content. Great that it was added but, it sure isn't new. I'm still waiting.

Originally Posted by Saxzon

I want to buy DG armor with TP please... But please make it with 20 radiance instead of 30, so people wont complain.



p.s. why do I get the feeling that will one day happen?

Radiance gate being removed. Go head and waste your money.

Originally Posted by Sammoth

Re-hashed old instances are not NEW content. Great that it was added but, it sure isn't new. I'm still waiting.

The latest promise is that we're getting a raid cluster in Q1, and another set of instances for the "anniversary update".

Of course these could turn to be just like the new raids for 2010, the Moria PvMP zone, and all the other features that got lost in development. But with only a month to go before it hits Bullroarer, I'll reserve my complaints until I know what we may or may not be getting.

Forgive this post, I am on a mobile phone,with not so mobile thumbs


I used to be one of the dishearted back in f2p beta rep horse debate.
And was relived when turbine relented. But that obviously didn't last long. Simply reducing hps on the mount doesn't change the core reason 'why' peeps didn't want them puchasable. Turbine knows this, they ain't that dumb.

But like others mentioned, I have grown weary with it, and don't care.

I dunno if this was mentioned here, but another thread suggested

Turn your kindred title on if u really wanna show the virual world you,indeed, have the rep to back that steed up.

This solves the problem,imho, if not an adequate compromise.

They don't sell kindred titles do they????
/gulp

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

Assuming it is reuse of any existing skin, it doubt costs Turbine more than one development staff hour.

It costs more that a staff hour to even consider adding one. Several groups involved in the decision to do it, asset needs to be created and added to the game inventory, store needs to be modified to support it, and the whole thing tested.

If there is any change to the skin you also need new artwork.

Much more than a staff hour.

Originally Posted by Northwoods

Several groups involved in the decision to do it

None of which are involved in landmass development, quest development, instance/raid development, etc. Dev time from the art team might apply, if the skin undergoes any visual changes, but that has not been the case so far.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

None of which are involved in landmass development, quest development, instance/raid development, etc. Dev time from the art team might apply, if the skin undergoes any visual changes, but that has not been the case so far.

I don't know how Turbine does it, but everyplace I've worked a new feature involves marketing, any impacted development group, test groups, and a project manager to coordinate. You also want feedback from customer and community support. It's not just some cowboy developer saying, "I think I'll add a horse." Just the initial meeting to discuss it will take more than a staff hour.

Originally Posted by Karhald

YSo... spend the time and effort to earn it in game, or drop some cash for it in the store. Effort vs. Convenience.

Except convenience far outweighs effort in this case, especially with something that's pure fluff. It's ridiculous. Those emotes were put there on purpose so people would buy them off the store instead.

The morale/power over time pots are store exclusive, that is true. The Steeped Power and Morale pots don't need to be purchased in the store. You can pick them up quite easily from barter vendors in Mirkwood and Enedwaith.

"Quite easily"? Was this another joke as well?

You mean... people who would rather spend money on conveniences, than spend time on earned rewards?

That would be the definition of laziness, yes. What's the point of setting goals and rewards for a time vs. rewards system if you're just going to nullify the entire system by selling the prizes on the store? Ah, that's right. The people that thought that was garbage have already left the game. My bad.

Originally Posted by 8skyfaller

I said it once, I'll say it again - most emotes have no place as rep rewards. If they're not representative of any particular faction, they just don't belong there. The store got it right, the Enedwaith rep list got it wrong, IMO. And I'm fine with that. Any way we argue about it, it does not make the case that the "rep system is ruined."

Do I look like the OP to you? I was arguing that emotes shouldn't be sold on the stores. There WAS a time when new emotes were freely offered to everyone. We go nearly a year without seeing new emotes and then, all of the sudden, a slew of new emotes show up with F2P, but of course they're on the store and they can only be bought for a single character. Nickel and diming at its finest.

And I said this once, too, and I'll say it again: Convenience is advantage. Quit trying to capitalize on early F2P Turbine PR doublespeak. It's been months. Look at the state of the store; look at the F2P gambit's success. Pandora's box is open, steak's done, the Jello is jiggling.

And few people are happy. We got our NGE Patch--Turbine is no longer to be found in these threads where they continue to go back on their promises. Because what can they say now? "Sorry, we lied to you guys. We always meant to sell this stuff on the store"? That'd be great PR. "Powered by our fans" indeed. More like "Powered by greed."

Nothing is ruined. I win the game with nothing more than the occasional maps and cosmetic purchases from the Store. The existence of the Store utterly has not made a difference to my motivation to do reputation quests and reap my rewards in due time.

Oh, it hasn't? I have a couple of kinmates who were looking at finishing up some rep in the game for factions to earn them the new various steeds. Now that they are seeing that slowly each rep steed is coming to the store, they have stopped collecting rep (and together the game as there is little else to do). They just buy the mount when it rolls out onto the store now.

All this LOTRO equine fixation, frankly, is getting exasperating. There is more to this game than these petty horses. Pick one and play.

This isn't just about horses, this is about standards. Standards they said they would never break. And now you're defending their lies? This is what the apologists have come to? You guys don't have anything better to say other than, "Well, they lied. What did you expect?"

If the bad, evil Store is having a de-motivational effect on individuals, there are personality issues involved beyond the responsibility of this game.

Right, can't forget the low brow comment to the mental faculties to people who don't agree with you. You must be a hit at parties. Although I would say the same for people who are so bothered by people who have differing opinions that they need to barge into a thread of no concern to them, proclaim they have no concern to this issue, and then insult anyone that does have such a concern. Real Grade A maturity on your part for sure.

Originally Posted by RatHeadedGranny

I want some real content added to the game.

Enedwaith was "real content". November's update had a bit of content, but mostly a lot of nice fixes and tweaks. The next big content drop is coming next month. "Real content" takes a long time to design, implement, playtest, balance, rework, test some more, fix, and test more still. The whole process for something like a new region takes 5-6 months, and it's only by doing some staggered development for 2+ updates simultaneously that they can deliver it on a shorter interval.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Khafar

Enedwaith was "real content". November's update had a bit of content, but mostly a lot of nice fixes and tweaks. The next big content drop is coming next month. "Real content" takes a long time to design, implement, playtest, balance, rework, test some more, fix, and test more still. The whole process for something like a new region takes 5-6 months, and it's only by doing some staggered development for 2+ updates simultaneously that they can deliver it on a shorter interval.

Khafar

"Real content" used to take Turbine three months to design. Now it takes them seven months.

Originally Posted by AgamemnonV2

This isn't just about horses, this is about standards. Standards they said they would never break.

I'll grant that stat tomes are past what I'd call "convenience", but horses aren't. Certainly not horses that have less health than the ones we can earn inside the game.

I think they just need to clarify what they mean by "advantage" because that term means different things to different people - I very much doubt my definition would match yours, for example. I've watched DDO and LOTRO, and what I infer they mean by "advantage" is "equippable end-game gear". They claimed "convenience, not advantage" in DDO since the very beginning, and still do. Yet right out the gate they were selling the +2 stat tomes - a pretty big deal in that game, at least at low- to mid-level. I'm guessing the rationale is that because you can get +3/+4 tomes at high levels, the +2 ones aren't a long-term advantage. They don't sell equippable end-game gear in that game either, even after more than a year.

Anyway, bottom line: they're going to do their best to sell stuff that people want. If they don't, they're morons. And what do people want? Stuff that makes their characters cooler or more powerful or less tedious will always be high on the wish list.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Khafar

The whole process for something like a new region takes 5-6 months, and it's only by doing some staggered development for 2+ updates simultaneously that they can deliver it on a shorter interval.

According to Kate Paiz, the game has doubled in revenue since moving to the hybrid model. Let's examine what kind of development times Turbine had when the game was doing badly:

April 24, 2007 - Official launch date
7 weeks
June 14, 2007 - Evendim
10 weeks
August 21, 2007 - Annuminas
9 weeks
October 24, 2007 - Rift, Goblin Town, Tâl Bruinen
16 weeks
February 13, 2008 - Angmar revamp
10 weeks
April 24, 2008 - Forochel
13 weeks
July 22, 2008 - Eregion
17 weeks
November 18, 2008 - Moria (paid expansion)
17 weeks
March 17, 2009 - Lorien, Nornuan
14 weeks
June 23, 2009 - Dar Narbugud
23 weeks
December 1, 2009 - Mirkwood (paid expansion)
13 weeks
March 1, 2010 - Vol. 3 epic quests, Vol. 1 revamp
27 weeks
September 10, 2010 - Enedwaith

If Turbine was able to do 3-month updates before, with a lower revenue stream, why would they be unable to do so now with double the amount of funding? Logically, the content rate should increase, not decrease. Unless of course they're funneling all that extra cash into the store and sticking with Paiz's established schedule of one region per year.

In addition to the feedback that Turbine received about not offering rep mounts on the store... I'll also point to in game evidence that people want to work for unique rides. Not only is the world renowned mount one of the uglier mounts (IMHO - sorry to those that like it)... but it is by far the mount I see the most in game. I was in a pug last week that popped out of a load zone and mounted up... poof! 6 horses with red surrender flags instantly appeared. This is not my only basis for my opinion, however... they seem to be literally EVERYWHERE, and just a very short time after they became available. (although this is also where I would say the rep grind is FAR too easy to reach kindred for MOST factions :/ )

Others have said it... there is a place that Turbine can find to BOTH honor those holding cash AND those wanting to earn things after giving cash already. They just haven't looked very hard to find that place.

Originally Posted by AgamemnonV2

"Real content" used to take Turbine three months to design. Now it takes them seven months.

No, it always took 5-6 months. They were working on Evendim for 3 months before the game launched. They were working on Forochel for a bit more than 2 of their update cycles back then (2-3 months each). But back when the game launched, they basically still had a full game development team as their "live team", so they could do more staggered development in parallel. That was never going to last.

At a more feasible live team size we're either going to get more frequent updates (from two staggered teams) with less content in each, or else less frequent updates (with one development team) that has more content. F2P hopefully puts some more $$ in the development pot so they can get closer to what they were able to do those first 6-9 months, when they were riding the launch wave (and probably burning more of their venture capital). But I doubt we'll get all the way back to that, ever.

Khafar

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

According to Kate Paiz, the game has doubled in revenue since moving to the hybrid model.

First, see my previous post. Second, revenues aren't profit. If their profits had doubled, then yeah, we should be seeing some amazing new development 6-9 months down the road (after they've had time to hire more people, get them up to speed, and get them productive). I'm sure profits are up, but it's hard to say by how much. I'm quite certain it isn't 2X.

If Turbine was able to do 3-month updates before, with a lower revenue stream

Well, their revenues early were quite good between the launch wave, the lifetimers hurling $200 apiece at them, etc. I seriously doubt they've doubled those revenues, only the ones they were getting last summer. Also, they started off with essentially the entire game development team as their "live team" to help get the game off the ground in style. That was never sustainable, and I doubt we'll ever see that again.

But yes, with increased profits, I do expect we'll see better development this year than anything we've seen since Moria shipped. Yet not as amazing as what they did that first 8 months or so.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Khafar

At a more feasible live team size we're either going to get more frequent updates (from two staggered teams) with less content in each, or else less frequent updates (with one development team) that has more content.

On paper, that works out fine. In practice, we've been getting content updates that are both less frequent AND contain less content.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

If Turbine was able to do 3-month updates before, with a lower revenue stream, why would they be unable to do so now with double the amount of funding? Logically, the content rate should increase, not decrease. Unless of course they're funneling all that extra cash into the store and sticking with Paiz's established schedule of one region per year.

Why would they need to put all the new money into the store? I doubt adding store content is quite as challenging as adding new areas and raids.

Honestly, I don't get the whole, "The sky is always falling!" attitude that seems to hang over these forums like a cloud. Every month, it's something new, and people act like it's going to be the end of the game, that they're going to quit and never come back, and that anyone who stays is an idiot (it never is, they never do, and everyone else ignores them). The store is full of convenience items, cosmetics, and junk. It's not remotely game-changing, and to think that Turbine has some insidious plot to redesign the game around the store, simply so they can make money, is laughable.

Personally, I don't care if the LOTRO Store sells Sauron masks and the One Ring. The game doesn't require a person to purchase anything other than a subscription for full unhindered access, so I could "shiv less than a git", so to speak. Let Turbine/WB sell anything they wish in that store - as long as it results in more content in the future due to added profit. Otherwise, I'll continue to play other games while waiting for new content instead of nitpicking about horses and other fluff.

At least there's a pulse resonating from LOTRO's dev cycle. If you want to see a game go down the toilet, go take a gander at the Warhammer Online forums. LOTRO devs and mods at the very least seem to care about the future of the game. When you see what goes on in games other than this one, you'll count your blessings.

Oh, this thread again? Get over it, really.

I'd rather get my rep mounts by earning TP (grinding rep). I could really care less if someone would rather spend their TP to get theirs.

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming

Honestly, I don't get the whole, "The sky is always falling!" attitude that seems to hang over these forums like a cloud.

I said no such thing. I posted the previous content release dates, my observations regarding the next content release, and a theory as to why doubling their revenue does not equate to more/quicker content.

Personally, I am fine with the current iteration of F2P and the store. Even with the stacking pots, stat tomes, and rep mounts, I have no issues whatsoever with the store.

What I do take issue with, however, is the fact that Paiz brags about doubling the revenue, yet does nothing tangible with it in regards to content. Those raids we're getting in Q1 and Q2 have been in development since 2009. Isengard is likely a result of the increased revenue, but that's another 8-12 months away. And every other new feature is either straight from the store or relies heavily upon it.

If Turbine wants to develop the store, then by all means they should do so, but not at the expense of other content.