Thread: Dev Diary Feedback: November Update Lore-master Changes

Firstly I would like to thank the the devs for taking the time to listening to Lore-masters' ideas and doing all the hard work they have done on the class and posting replies to the community.

My wife would think that you had bugged our house and listened to our conversations , if not for my thread from May. Thanks a ton for implementing Frost-lore! I have for the longest asked for a Combat Summon skill since a beta many moons ago. I was always told it would be OP in any form. I of coarse said it wouldn't be if done right. Thanks for proving my point.

Feedback:

Frost-lore- Love this, since as stated above I invented it! Any chance of adding a second effect to this skill to make it more like, Fire-lore and Wind-lore. How about a decrease to healing received and/or done by a small amount. Having The Study of Fire-lore or The Study of Wind-lore effect Frost-lore's Tact debuff percentage would be wonderful. I suggest The Study of Fire-lore because at the moment The Study of Wind-lore effects two skills and The Study of Fire-lore only effects one.

Staff-Sweep- Great skill. While I dislike a new melee skill and a third skill that is in melee range/5m, like Storm-lore. I can't argue with what it does for LRMs. It would be nice if, with Master of the Staff traited, Staff-Sweep could restore power or place a PoT on the group as well. This would help LRM's role as battery. Also with Master of the Staff traited it would make sense for it to do frost damage instead of common, making it akin to Staff-Strike's light damage when traited. Since LRMs only have one frost damge skill, this small buff would be very cool.

Combat Summon- Awesome! Been asking for this forever too! Any chance this skill could be made into a normal skill? Maybe its CD would be 10-15m long and decreased to 5m with Nature-Friend traited. My wife pointed out that the devs might think it would be unbalanced to let a 5 in with legandary, MoNF LRM summon his pet in combat, so I understand the need to keep it in TKoA.

Traits- Love the fact LRM traits aren't vague now. Knowing exactly how a trait effects your build is a must have for all classes.

Pet Food- Great addition. One food to feed them all would be nice. I totally understand the need to brake it down into groups though.

going down the list.....

Staff Sweep = but will it stun on a crit with the current master of the staff trait?

Frost-lore = new shiny, cool

Combat Summoning = this trait will be good for those of use who forget where are pets are and need to snatch it up before it aggros lots of unwanted npcs, granted the pet line is probably the least used line that i know of.

Companion Teleport = this is great for those few times that a pet will get bugged out when you leave the beaten path, not sure if i like the flank sound being effected by combat sounds as i usualy have those turned down a bit so i can hear voice chat.

Companion Appearance Changes = this is really! great because i refuse to store necklaces to slow each and every time i want to summon my pet, honestly just refused to ever do it and i like some of the appearances too, also isnt it about time we got some new non combat pets

Fire-lore = this is a great change, i cant tell you how many times ive tried to use fire lore on targets that it wouldnt work on.

Call to the Valar = wow the 10 second immunity to inductions makes this change worth it completely, i dont understand what it means by reducing the time for it to cast part this, its already instant cast skill

Sign of Power: Vigilance = does this mean that for now on this skill will only be allowed to be cast on fellowship members like how a traited proof against all ills works? ive never really cared for this skill to much, has never made or broken any pvp event for me.

Knowledge of the Lore-master = this is a nice addition to a underused skill.

Wards = can we get some unseen type mob action in here too for, or does these actually work out as ancient evil?

Blinding Flash = omg i cant even begin to say how much i like this, cant tell you how many times it has come up how i cant interrupt anything if i cant mez or stun it

Inner Flame = agree that this is a weak skill and a improvement to it will go far, just curious when you say cannot be interrupted, that means that i am immune to stuns and mezes while using this skill?

Fellowship Maneuvers= cant wait to utilize these changes, i hate running up to a mob from 25ish meters away to get my red or yellow in.


also another note please give us some tactical critical passives!

Excellent improvements. Thanks to all that worked on them.

I love the change to Fire Lore and the addition of Frost Lore. I can't believe SoP:V is changed to anchored aoe. I never would have thought we'd see that. Mostly I love the improvements to the pets. KoA was somewhat weaker and Hardy Bear -> Hardy Companion is most welcome. I've wanted this change for a long long time now.

A couple points of feedback:

1. Warding Circles: I like the improvements and agree it was odd that ancient evil were excluded. However, I think the standard and traited versions are confusing or at least don't make much sense to me. Untraited one circle wards against orcs, then when traited down AM another circle wards against orcs. Ancient Evil isn't affected under "the dead" as would seem somewhat logical. I know they aren't the dead, but they seem more closely related there than drakes. Maybe there is some reason this was arranged as so that is eluding me, but it just seems counter-intuitive to me.
2. Pet Food: I would have hoped these foods would have been combined into a single food like Purina Pet Chow, rather than Purina Bog Water, Purina Kitty Kibble, etc. It's a minor point, but managing multiple foods for pets seem cumbersome and inventory heavy.

Thanks again. The changes are excellent, well thought out, and look to significantly improve the fun playing a lore-master.

Now ... that's a nice package! Thanks!

Originally Posted by corrakkas

going down the list.....

Staff Sweep = but will it stun on a crit with the current master of the staff trait?

Inner Flame = agree that this is a weak skill and a improvement to it will go far, just curious when you say cannot be interrupted, that means that i am immune to stuns and mezes while using this skill?

Staff Sweep is not currently affected by the Master of the Staff trait in any way. We believed that giving an AoE melee stun would be a little power more than we thought advisable.

Inner Flame is not interupted do to normal attacks. It does not make the Lore-master immune to Stuns, Dazes or Interrupts.

Graalx2,

I need to apologize to you. You see, I love morale, and I had a captain, and .... after .... well... I saw what you and George Lucas did to my Morale Captain in the last patch. I cried for days.

I went to the old Gypsy Lady in the woods and had her put a bad Mojo JuJu on you. I'm deeply sorry because I LOVE what you've done with my loremaster.

In fact, I'm so happy, I'm going back to the old Gypsy Lady in the woods after work, and I'm going to have her take off the bad... really bad... Mojo JuJu that I had her put on you.

Once again. Deeply sorry. That "little problem" you've been suffering quietly with for the last month. That was all me and a voodoo hex that I had done out of ... my unquenchable rage and sorrow. But really, you deserved it. But I promise, after work, you, me, the old Gypsy Lady in the woods. I'll get it taken care of.

Lets let bygones be bygones. Good job on the Loremaster!

I love the Fellowship maneuver and the SOP: Vigilance changes. I think they are the best of the update and much needed. The in combat pet summoning is sort of meh since it involves going down the Pet Fluffer line. Fire-Lore changes, Frost Lore and Ancient Evil Warding are going to be fantastic. I am wondering if Master of the Staff trait will affect the Staff Sweep Skill in any way?

The Talisman changes; I have one request : Just auto-grant the recipes to the jewelers on the update. Have you not seen the debacle of the Captain Banners every update?

Wonderful diary! You have made this old LM smile bigger than he has in quite a while

companion teleport? beautiful! The existing skill for it is a bit cumbersome. (mount/dismount-horse )

the SoP:Vigilance change seems a little nerf-ish to me, as I used to hand those things out to tons of folks randomly in the moors as they went out hunting hehe

staff sweep? awesome!
so much to love in this update, great work Turbine!

oh, one more thing... id like a new quickslot bar please!!

I am very happy and excited to hear of all of these changes! The work for making the ranged slot much more useful sounds great too!

My inventory was quite clogged with pet appearance amulets that I just used for a summon and then switched to better jewelry so I'm very happy to have that space back. Also eager to see what the new appearances will be! I'll admit part of why I play a LM is I enjoy pet classes.
I just hope that the Talisman versions can just replace the existing Jewelcrafter recipies? Also will the currently owed Amulets automatically become Talismans?

I will agree the point brought up about pet food, it'd be nice if that was universal as well. I didn't even know about feeding your bear and all the levels of food very much until late in the game.

Alls I can say is... AWESOME! WOOHOOO!!!! Thank you LOTRO! I knew I picked a good class back in closed beta.. and its come a long way to where it is now. So thank you LOTRO DEVs for not forgetting about our special class!

Faelveren LVL 65 LM

Originally Posted by swattz101

The consumable appearance scroll is a one time thing that adds a new skill. After you "consume" it, you have the skill for the life of you LM.

I certainly hope that's true...I copied my lvl 57 LM to BR, but didn't have any amulets to play with. I long ago quit carrying them around.

Hi, if work is still being still being done on LM, I have a niggle... I have the sword and staff skill equipped but there is a glitch in the animation when summoning a pet, towards the end the sword freezes in tmid air while the hand keeps moving... just a niggle but it would be nice to see it all smooth

Some changes sound fine. But do these changes mean lore masters will get more life? Lore masters lose life quickly and THAT needs to be improved. And, why a Talisman? ALot of us lore masters like our pets we have. And does this mean lots of players, who have been on the game for a good long while will lose their nice pets (like the black bear, frost linx, blood raven, etc) will lose them and have to get new? Honestly, THAT STINKS.

Originally Posted by FairyPrincess

Some changes sound fine. But do these changes mean lore masters will get more life? Lore masters lose life quickly and THAT needs to be improved. And, why a Talisman? ALot of us lore masters like our pets we have. And does this mean lots of players, who have been on the game for a good long while will lose their nice pets (like the black bear, frost linx, blood raven, etc) will lose them and have to get new? Honestly, THAT STINKS.

You won't lose any of your current pet appearances. Your crafted necklaces will be converted to consumables that will be added as skills, similar to the way mounts were converted. It will allow you to have multiple pet appearance skills with you without crowding your inventory.

Originally Posted by corrakkas

also another note please give us some tactical critical passives!

Yes, agree completely.

I created this table a few weeks ago and I can't imagine there being too much publicity for this table, so here it is again.

Maybe I'm confused, but I think the talisman idea is terrible. Single use? So, should we want our favorite type of companion, we'll have to carry around single use talismans instead of one necklace? Am I wrong here? That's horrible. I can equip my necklace and leave it on.

Is it that the single use talisman grants you an infinitely reusable skill? That would be okay, but pointlessly switching from necklaces to talismans doesn't seem like it's enough to warrant a change. So it must be that you have to use a talisman to call your "pet" that you like (a black bear, for instance) each time it disappears because it's falling behind on a run or gets "stuck" or dies? It seems more like something to give jewellers to do more than positively affecting loremasters, especially in a case like a spotted lynx vs. a normal looking cat. We're going to have to carry single uses around or what?

Single use talismans is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. Leave the cosmetic pet stuff alone please. DO NOT make this change. I feel like this is something that is slipping by.

Originally Posted by Ardineck

Maybe I'm confused...

Yes, you are. Read through the developer diary. It will answer all of your concerns and more.

Great Dev Diary, it's clear and concise.

Thank you for the much needed changes.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by Ardineck

Maybe I'm confused, but I think the talisman idea is terrible. Single use? So, should we want our favorite type of companion, we'll have to carry around single use talismans instead of one necklace? Am I wrong here? That's horrible. I can equip my necklace and leave it on.

Is it that the single use talisman grants you an infinitely reusable skill? That would be okay, but pointlessly switching from necklaces to talismans doesn't seem like it's enough to warrant a change. So it must be that you have to use a talisman to call your "pet" that you like (a black bear, for instance) each time it disappears because it's falling behind on a run or gets "stuck" or dies? It seems more like something to give jewellers to do more than positively affecting loremasters, especially in a case like a spotted lynx vs. a normal looking cat. We're going to have to carry single uses around or what?

Single use talismans is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. Leave the cosmetic pet stuff alone please. DO NOT make this change. I feel like this is something that is slipping by.

It took me less time to find out that you are wrong than reading your whole rant.

Originally Posted by Ardineck

Maybe I'm confused, but I think the talisman idea is terrible. Single use? So, should we want our favorite type of companion, we'll have to carry around single use talismans instead of one necklace? Am I wrong here? That's horrible. I can equip my necklace and leave it on.

Is it that the single use talisman grants you an infinitely reusable skill? That would be okay, but pointlessly switching from necklaces to talismans doesn't seem like it's enough to warrant a change. So it must be that you have to use a talisman to call your "pet" that you like (a black bear, for instance) each time it disappears because it's falling behind on a run or gets "stuck" or dies? It seems more like something to give jewellers to do more than positively affecting loremasters, especially in a case like a spotted lynx vs. a normal looking cat. We're going to have to carry single uses around or what?

Single use talismans is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. Leave the cosmetic pet stuff alone please. DO NOT make this change. I feel like this is something that is slipping by.

Yup. You're very confused.

Originally Posted by Ardineck

Maybe I'm confused, but I think the talisman idea is terrible. Single use? So, should we want our favorite type of companion, we'll have to carry around single use talismans instead of one necklace? Am I wrong here? That's horrible. I can equip my necklace and leave it on.

Is it that the single use talisman grants you an infinitely reusable skill? That would be okay, but pointlessly switching from necklaces to talismans doesn't seem like it's enough to warrant a change. So it must be that you have to use a talisman to call your "pet" that you like (a black bear, for instance) each time it disappears because it's falling behind on a run or gets "stuck" or dies? It seems more like something to give jewellers to do more than positively affecting loremasters, especially in a case like a spotted lynx vs. a normal looking cat. We're going to have to carry single uses around or what?

Single use talismans is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. Leave the cosmetic pet stuff alone please. DO NOT make this change. I feel like this is something that is slipping by.

Companion Appearance Changes

We have completely re-worked the way we are handling the Lore-master’s companion appearances. All of the necklaces that previously granted a new pet appearance have been converted to single use Talismans. These new Talismans will grant the Lore-master a new skill that will summon a raven, bear, or other pet with the new appearance. Unfortunately, this means that anyone using the old necklaces for their stats will have to find new neckwear.

Originally Posted by Graalx2

Staff Sweep is not currently affected by the Master of the Staff trait in any way. We believed that giving an AoE melee stun would be a little power more than we thought advisable.

Inner Flame is not interupted do to normal attacks. It does not make the Lore-master immune to Stuns, Dazes or Interrupts.

I would have to agree here. Personally if MotS was to effect Staff-Sweep I'd suggest it change the damage type to frost and apply a Power over Time, PoT, to the group on a flank. Instead of a stun or more damage. LRMs don't need another near melee distance AoE stun skill, Storm-lore seems good enough.

Im going to keep grumbling about the whole business of needing three different --resist legacies and the balancing involved in that, but otherwise this is a very nice, satisfying bunch of changes and improvements to the class. Looking forward to trying them out.

I logged into Bullroarer last night and rolled a new LM to see the changes to Ered Luin as well. I currently have a 62 Elf LM on live. I was very disappointed in the Raven. It died in every fight. I used the Inner Flame, but the cooldown was so long it was really worthless. My LM actually did well on the health part tho. Her morale and power lines stayed high. Only in Limael's Vinyard did she get defeated. Three goblins jumped on her at once and they were all at level. The Raven died on the first one, and the LM died on the third one. And this was only trying to glean the grapes. Maybe I am remembering the raven wrong as used to the sabre tooth cat. But was very disappointed in the raven now. Is there some new way I should be playing her?

Don't play LM...only experience with one was way back in SOA and canned it at about level 10.

But with the new changes I might have to give LM a shot.

It looks like the devs are working hard. Good work people!

Read about these changes when you first posted.... was glad to see SOME attention given to an otherwise forgotten class in the game, but where are the skills that would truly make the LM VITAL (not just an afterthought) in group, or more battle ready for PVP?

Induction times appear to all still be the same (i.e. slow)

Healing is still best done by RK's and Mini's

Damage is "mid level" at best

Still won't be able to CC in PVP to any signifigant level (thus eliminating the ability to cast an induction)

No changes in range to what is a "ranged" class.....

Appreciate group stealth detection, but wouldn't group stun immunity have been a wiser and much more vital ability? I mean make a LM work for it an all, but PVP or PVE BOTH need SI..... and that one single change would have LM's being sought out, versus.... "Oh... yea, we have room, lets add an lm" when it comes to PVE, or for that matter PVP.

So my question to you is this........ If you classify RK's and Mini's as healers....... Hunters as ranged attackers...... Tanks as....well tanks..... guards as slice and dice....... captains as off heal/melee/etc.... RK's as ultimate damage.... burgs as debuffers, and wardens as aggro machines..... where exactly are you fitting in LM's that don't heal much, can't truly cc (outside of PVE instances), and with stand still and slow inductions, don't last long without a group?

Don't get me wrong..... as a long time LM player, anything at this point is appreciated, but after reading the very lengthy post about the changes coming for the RK class, in comparison (imo) it would seem the LM class was thrown a bone (again) of sorts.

C'mon.... give us LM's something we really need..... reduced inductions, or make the induction unbreakable in battle, or dare I say it.... makes the cast do some major damage for the amount of time it takes to get the sucker off!!!!

Tie it to armor, a bracelet, a long chain quest.... heck even a "Lotro Store Special".... I don't care, but give us something we all really need and that's to make the LM toon more viable and VITAL as most other classes are.

- M

LM is my absolute favorite toon and I have to say I was EXTREMELY pleased to see the new moves and stuff that are coming. I would like to echo what some of the others have said about health issues and a ranged slot. The addition of those two changes would be most helpful.

My only other comment is, WHEN IN NOVEMBER IS THE UPDATE?!

The Changes look good anything new is refreshing.

THANK YOU for the FM change! It's bugged me ever since I started my LM that I couldn't do red/yellow from range.
The Talisman idea is neat. I have a bunch of receipes for Lore Master Amulets that I was getting ready to sell for Vault space. Glad I waited (and new skins for the Sabertooth cat! yay!)

Originally Posted by Nanwin

... Maybe I am remembering the raven wrong as used to the sabre tooth cat. But was very disappointed in the raven now. Is there some new way I should be playing her?

My first impression is: Don't try to play a Baby LM like a 62 Traited LM with LI and such.. The raven is not (even at 62) a "tank pet". It WILL die.

Not to be stinky but how exactly are these new changes (as well as the RK) going to be leveled for PvP. I can forsee an LM sending a pet up, aggro npcs, then teleport it back and bugging out npcs

Maybe I missed that part of the dev discussion but since I play creep side alot just curious what the dev's plan for PvP adjustments (if any)

Are you missing the phrase "It is not useable in combat" from the pet teleport skill description?

Changes:
Thanks a ton for "fixing" Fire-lore and buffing Blinding Flash! The other buffs to skill are a good change as well.

Inner-Flame- Though while I like the increase in healing and the threat transfer, is less then what I expected. The skill is a big risk to use solo because of the channel. Its also a bad idea to use it during a group fight as a LRM's CC/battery job would be on hold for 16 seconds. I would suggest making it a fellowship wide channel skill like Rousing Words, though much weaker. Maybe it heals power instead of or as well as morale. Just a thought.

Request/Suggests:

Is there any chance that all the LRM's DoTs could have their DoT pulse reduced from every 5 seconds to 1-3 seconds? I request this because the pulses are so far apart. The DoT's damage would be the same after it expires, just that each pulse would do less damage more often within the 10 second duration, or how ever long the DoT is.

Note: I originally posted the following here

Master of the Staff should change Staff Sweep, SS2 damage type from common to frost damage just like it grants Staff Strike, SS1 light damage. The other MotS buffs +25% Damage, +20% crit chance, +50% crit damage, 5s stun on crit hit, extra damage on flank would be cool too. I'd like to see the LRM receive more power when critting or hitting a flanked target rather then doing more damage. As a LRM only has 3 light damage skills, including SS1 with MotS traited, that are all single target, it would make sense for LRM's frost skills to all be AoE. This would also mean LRMs would have 2 frost skill instead of just Gust of Wind.

As for Frost-lore I would suggest a trait or a 2 trait set bonus from TAM that buffs its effect the way The Study of Fire-ore and The Study of Wind-lore are. The devs could merge the the traits Fast Loader and Explosive Force and make a new trait called The Study of Frost-lore, which I my self don't think most devs would want to do. I think that replacing the useless Bane's Flare , BF2 bonus from the The Ancient Master set makes more sense. BF2 has a legacy already and all the lore skills are used more then BF2, as it only effect the dead atm So it's safe to say that Frost-lore will be used more then BF2. Or just have either the Fire-lore or Wind-lore traits effect Frost-lore too.

Note: BF2= Bane's Flare because BF/BF1= Blinding Flash.


Few the far future:
Name: Calvary of Waves
Effect: AoE frost damage skill with slow. In line with Cracked Earth and Gust of Wind damage.
Reason: LRM have few frost damage skills. Also this skill is based on the scene in LOTR:FOTR end of Book1 at the Ford where the Ring-Wrath got washed away by a "calvary of wave", the Professor's words iirc. It could reuse the blue Stallion's Spirit animation just like Ents Go To War does. That is a great sence in the novel and should be in game. I suggest this skill every year and figure I am wearing Turbine down, see they added Frost-lore

Name: You Cannot Pass/Shall Not Pass
Effect: An AoE CC. Either a root or daze, not a stun.
Reason: It's in the books and is arguabaly Gandalfs most dramatic and powerful moment of heroism! What Lore-master doesn't want to strike their staff down holding them in place, as the Grey Wizard did.

My LM has been around lvl 40 for 2 years now. Just way to squishy to play solo... and until lvl 60ish, people just dont group. I will try out the changes, but squishy is shuishy.

When will these changes go into effect? I can't seem to find anything about when the November update will take place.

Thanks.

I'm trying to get excited for these changes, but lets face it. The class is still...'meh." Its still going to be, 'meh.' Seems like we still have to deal with the longest collection of inductions and cooldowns in the game. I find the debuffs pretty pathetic. Nothing reads, "ZOMG! We NEED to have an LM in the group!" LMs are still sitting in the back of the bus. whee.

I appreciate the bare bones statements, but lets face it. We're pretty pathetic. I'll still play my LM, I like him after all. But I still feel like my Kinship brings me along cos they feel sorry for me.

Sorry, but while the changes are neat and all, my bars are already full! No more room! And nothing here will make me play my LM more than I already do. Mostly because he's my favorite character out of them all and I play him the most! A truly neat update would combine skills, not add more separate ones.

Still, thanks. It's nice to know that if Reed, my pet, actually dies, I'll be able to summon him up immediately. Not that it's actually possible to kill him, though. I've survived stuff my captain struggles with, and my minstrel runs from. I'm geared much worse than either of them, too, I just think the way I play my LM makes him extremely survivable.

Staff sweep sounds neat, but I don't think I'll slot it. A power over time? Seriously? For the class that has so much power to begin with that we get a spell to share it? My staff strike is fantastic by itself, too. When I do skirmishes, I share power with my pet, my soldier if she needs it, and I STILL have plenty left over.

Actually, the companion teleport is about the only thing I'll wind up using out of the bunch of new updates. And that's because the pathfinding is still horrible in this game. Tonight, my pet got caught behind a lamp post and no matter where I ran, he couldn't get out. I see this as a band-aid for the path finding.

The only other thing I thought was neat was the ranged slot item... which isn't in this patch. And from my experience with promises from you guys, I might not see it before I die.

I don't mean to sound negative. Even though there's nothing here I need or want. You're doing stuff for the LM community and that's good. Unlike others here, I don't feel my class is neglected. I love my LM, and I love playing as KoA, which I never see any more. My LM really is my favorite out of the bunch. So thanks, at least, for not nerfing the LM, like you did my RK!

I was very excited when I noticed this - having read the RK changes first.
I have to say - I am very disappointed.

1. Why do you have a class trait that increases Sign of the Wild duration? Those skills are not even that useful. Pets are ineffectual in group scenarios. The trait is useless.

2. This really fails to address the core problem with Lore Masters - higher inductions than all other casters and less damage. Considering we have to sacrifice morale and wait twice as long to hit something, we should have some kind of benefit.

I'm aware there are class traits that help with these issues - but that means we're using our traits to become even remotely playable, as opposed to other classes who use their traits to provide different play styles.

I think it's really awesome you're going to let me buy a new appearance for my pet from your store. That way when he dies in 3 hits in a group and then I get murdered while trying to cast a 3 second induction spell that uses my own morale... atleast i'll go out with a cute pet.

Originally Posted by Morris1

Read about these changes when you first posted.... was glad to see SOME attention given to an otherwise forgotten class in the game, but where are the skills that would truly make the LM VITAL (not just an afterthought) in group, or more battle ready for PVP?

Induction times appear to all still be the same (i.e. slow)

Healing is still best done by RK's and Mini's

Damage is "mid level" at best

Still won't be able to CC in PVP to any signifigant level (thus eliminating the ability to cast an induction)

No changes in range to what is a "ranged" class.....

Appreciate group stealth detection, but wouldn't group stun immunity have been a wiser and much more vital ability? I mean make a LM work for it an all, but PVP or PVE BOTH need SI..... and that one single change would have LM's being sought out, versus.... "Oh... yea, we have room, lets add an lm" when it comes to PVE, or for that matter PVP.

So my question to you is this........ If you classify RK's and Mini's as healers....... Hunters as ranged attackers...... Tanks as....well tanks..... guards as slice and dice....... captains as off heal/melee/etc.... RK's as ultimate damage.... burgs as debuffers, and wardens as aggro machines..... where exactly are you fitting in LM's that don't heal much, can't truly cc (outside of PVE instances), and with stand still and slow inductions, don't last long without a group?

Don't get me wrong..... as a long time LM player, anything at this point is appreciated, but after reading the very lengthy post about the changes coming for the RK class, in comparison (imo) it would seem the LM class was thrown a bone (again) of sorts.

C'mon.... give us LM's something we really need..... reduced inductions, or make the induction unbreakable in battle, or dare I say it.... makes the cast do some major damage for the amount of time it takes to get the sucker off!!!!

Tie it to armor, a bracelet, a long chain quest.... heck even a "Lotro Store Special".... I don't care, but give us something we all really need and that's to make the LM toon more viable and VITAL as most other classes are.

- M

Devs-

Mythicman and I are in consensus here, us Firefoot LMs have to stick together! It has always been an ongoing nag in my spirit that my favourite toon (Eadran-65 LM) is an after thought in a raid/fellowship. The character creation screen "alleges" LMs are a Crowd Control Class, but it seems that at every turn we're pushed toward being cloth wearing champions. No offense to my fellow red traited LMs, but most of them couldn't CC to save their lives (or that of a fellowship) if they wanted to, because the game has in so many ways bred crowd controlling out of Lore-masters. To fit into a fellowship we have to go red-traits. A yellow traited LM recieves a raised eybrow and a "really?", and a blue traited LM is laughed at in most circles. I love the changes, it's a morsel that'll I gladly take, but give us back our Vital role. I want to send creeps and mobs scurrying for the rocks and caves at the sight of an Lore-master who can nerf them into inneffectiveness. I don't want to blast their pants off (that's what RKs, Hunters, and Champions are for), I just want to stop them dead in their mayhem causing tracks. I can't kill you, but you surely aren't killing me or anyone else!

Eadran Tadral of Dale
Lore-master

Oh yeah! Speaking of blue traited Lore-master. I have been an advocate of this line of traiting for a very long time. I don't want to be turned into a pet-based-DPS class by any means, if I wanted that I'd go play a WoW hunter-fail, or for you fellow older people a Magician or Beast-Master from EQ. Thank you, Devs for adding some utility to the Keeper of Animals line. Being able to summon pets based off the stage of battle will definitely be nice. Also, making some of the bear specific skills universal to all the Lore-master's animal friends will be great! Now that's adding some support role to a support class.

Now with the blinding flash change to being an interrupt now, it might make the Helegrod set worth getting. That decrease to my target's resist chance to that skill might make the Gorothul fight a bit easier, and might make an LM a viable option to instances and runs that require an interrupter (Sammath-Gul for instance). How about a legacy to the LM legendary item legacy pools that drops the Blinding Flash CD? That'd be beast and no doubt strike fear in the heart of un-stun-potted creeps and mezzable targets. I really do like the Ancient Master line and worked that trait line for a long time. I still miss the effectiveness of those wards, and now lopping man, undead, and orc together, that's awesome!

Thanks for all the other fun skills too like Staff Sweep (I might need to go find some might jewelry and a special legendary designed to take a might legacy scroll and toy around with this) and Frost-lore. They'll be fun. And for my last two cents.

Cent #1.) Like Mythicman stated, and I support his message, if we're a support role, why is a good chunk of our legendary item pools aimed at DPS? Can we get a few more legacies that don't say "damage", "damage", "damage"? Also, why is two of the four Lore-master armour skill bonuses aimed at DPS (Moria and BG)? We have two others that target Ancient Craft (DN and Helegrod), where's a set that affects Keeper of Animals? It seems like our class suffers a bit from an identity crisis. Please stop pushing us toward having to be DPS to fit in with everyone else! Our identiy crisis amongst Lore-masters is bad; it's like a Guardian saying, "if I drink morale potions does that make me a healing guardian?" Just because I wear Moria gear and have imp. sticky goard does not make me a DPS class. If I (or someone else) wanted to be an AOE DPS class go play a champion (at least then we'd get the benefits of heavy armour).

Cent #2.) Please: fix our revive skill. All that induction at point blank range (oh yeah, and with a component) revives someone to a step shy of defeated-warmed-up. Maybe add this to the Keeper of Animals Line (maybe adjust the wording in the Healer trait to include helping this revive skill). Pretty Please? And asking a wild request: can we make it an in-combat revive maybe? Huh?

You could not fix any of this, turn us into a red-headed-step-child-class-that-everyone-laughs-at, and not do any of these changes you posted in the Dev Diary and I'd still be happy putzing around in Middle-Earth on my Lore-master. A skilled lore-master still is a force to be reckoned with, and that's enough for me! Love all you fellow Lore-masters!

Eadran Tadral of Dale

Originally Posted by VdubGuy

Devs-

Mythicman and I are in consensus here, us Firefoot LMs have to stick together! It has always been an ongoing nag in my spirit that my favourite toon (Eadran-65 LM) is an after thought in a raid/fellowship. The character creation screen "alleges" LMs are a Crowd Control Class, but it seems that at every turn we're pushed toward being cloth wearing champions. No offense to my fellow red traited LMs, but most of them couldn't CC to save their lives (or that of a fellowship) if they wanted to, because the game has in so many ways bred crowd controlling out of Lore-masters. To fit into a fellowship we have to go red-traits. A yellow traited LM recieves a raised eybrow and a "really?", and a blue traited LM is laughed at in most circles. I love the changes, it's a morsel that'll I gladly take, but give us back our Vital role. I want to send creeps and mobs scurrying for the rocks and caves at the sight of an Lore-master who can nerf them into inneffectiveness. I don't want to blast their pants off (that's what RKs, Hunters, and Champions are for), I just want to stop them dead in their mayhem causing tracks. I can't kill you, but you surely aren't killing me or anyone else!

Eadran Tadral of Dale
Lore-master

/signed

Although it's more or less the overall changes to the game that's pushed us to how you so elegantly put it: cloth-wearing champions. At this point a lot of people will cry "FOUL!" if they took away what burst DPS we have. The issue is making CC a valid strategy once again.

Right now the content screams: AE! Healz! Tankzz!!! Moar DPS!!!! And until the devs decide to introduce content that forces less DPS and more CC, we won't see the Popo root out our friendly LM DPS gangs.

I suggested an idea of changing skills to get the best of both worlds, but they've not added it. It was giving Herb-lore a DoT that would not break the root. Like the Morvuls (or whatever those things are called) have. You'll want to read most of my posts in the thread for extra clarification on how it would work in my mind.

Anyways, very lovely changes. I'll take it. A little more OP never hurt anyone (save for da Monsters!). But I do feel bad for the Champions. They are fast becoming a solitary role. No more tank, no more interrupt. Just AE mess-em-up. I can't help but notice the game is splitting away from class-based grouping. Other than Champions it seems every class can double as another nowadays, whereas beforehand you needed very specific so-and-so's for just about every instance


Sad. Anyways, once again -------

/signed

Hi,

I appreciate all the changes and am thankful for them, except for one. If it's a choice between Knowledge of the Loremaster being usable in combat or having it give a debuff, I'd prefer the way it was (usable in combat). [However, it's my guess that the change is going through no matter what I or anyone else says or has said.]


Thanks,

- Whitnoc