Don't know if this is the answer or not, but I find the line of thought amusing so, I thought I'd post it anyways.
The Elendilmir, or The Star of Elendil.
It was a royal device of the Kings of Gondor and Arnor until it was lost in the Anduin, which was then found and locked away by Saruman in the Tower of Orthanc. For a time you could say it was "forgotten" as it was replaced, and thus not much thought went into the original's fate.
The forgotten (from the view point from Sauron?), or locked away (referring to his hiding in Rivendell) royal in this case would be Aragorn, who re-discovered the Elendilmir in the tower sometime after his crowning as King Elessar.
Wow. I hope the original Elendilmir is the answer because that is a truly phenomenal answer. I love the way these riddles have been going as of late.
As my own similar guess, I will throw out Glamdring. Sword of Turgon, lost in Gondolin, eventually oublietted and forgotten amongst the spoils of uncouth stone trolls.
Last edited by darkoutcast; Jan 12 2011 at 10:19 PM.
Reason: added my second guess
Sadly, the Elendilmir is not the answer, as impressive a guess as it may be. Nor is Glamdring.
Now for the stronger hint. The riddle is two stages, and the first stage involves a non-JRRT lore interpretation of the original clue. The resulting second clue points directly to a specific JRRT lore reference. The riddle is thus designed along the lines of the "Odin's time" => "Wednesday" => "tea-time with Gandalf" riddle. My apologies if this format is overly complicated.
It's quite alright. I just haven't had any idea what to throw out even as a lame guess along those lines and have thus avoided them. The answer shall be pursued with renewed vigor, regardless.
I'm not sure if you still intend for the clue to be pressed upon the final answer, but with the idea that it's only meant for the first step, then my next guess at the answer would be:
Gandalf
Obliquetted Royal = Odin, who along with two other Norse 'gods' in mythology was once imprisoned by an evil wizard for having killed his son, and is now forgotten as a god. Odin of the three was considered the ruler of the Asgard, thus royal?..
And of course, Gandalf is described by Tolkien as a Odinic wanderer.
I would like for this to be pursued further, if you are willing to play along. The Odin/Gandalf angle is not the correct answer, but you are on the right path with that type of approach.
I want to let this marinate a bit longer and would still appreciate your attempts to solve it. However, since my riddle was unfairly unorthodox, in the meantime allow me to present an alternative puzzle following the usual format:
I want to let this marinate a bit longer and would still appreciate your attempts to solve it. However, since my riddle was unfairly unorthodox, in the meantime allow me to present an alternative puzzle following the usual format:
Fortunate Fivesome?
The 5 ponies Merry hired that stayed with Barliman (or rather, came back to him) and didn't accompany the hobbits.
On the oublietted royal only one idea came to me:Morgoth. He was thrown outside the paths of time and reality into the void, and forgotten by most people of middle earth(Except elves) , and as for "Royal" he is/was an Ainu, the lords of the Vala, and he was the dark lord
Thank you Seltin, but that is not correct either (although it is yet another guess that fits the clue pretty well).
To recap what I explained above, for this particular riddle you need to find a non-JRRT lore solution to the "oublietted royal" clue, and this intermediate solution will point directly to a single and (hopefully) obvious final answer found in one of the three main JRRT texts (Hobbit, LotR and Silmarillion). I have also advised the audience that final answer is not someone or something that was "oublietted" - that part of the clue only applies to the intermediate step.
If it helps narrow things down, the intermediate answer can be found pretty explicitly in an old book and a relatively recent (last 15 years) movie based on that book.
Wait! I just got an idea! If the old book is at least in some way related to Tolkien, and a movie came out recently, than the only thing i can think of is Beowulf(Tolkien studied it extensively). Is that correct?
Because if it is, that only advances us a little bit, as i cant seem to remember any "Oublietted" Things, both in the sense of forgotten or jailed... Beowulf was a royal.so was Hroogar. The only other thing i can thing of is that sword made by the giants that laid there for a untold number of ages... Of course, i may be completely off...
Wait! I just got an idea! If the old book is at least in some way related to Tolkien, and a movie came out recently, than the only thing i can think of is Beowulf(Tolkien studied it extensively). Is that correct?
Because if it is, that only advances us a little bit, as i cant seem to remember any "Oublietted" Things, both in the sense of forgotten or jailed... Beowulf was a royal.so was Hroogar. The only other thing i can thing of is that sword made by the giants that laid there for a untold number of ages... Of course, i may be completely off...
Thank you for your continued efforts on this. The answer to the intermediate clue is a royal person who has been jailed. It is unrelated to Beowulf.
The book in question is by a 19th century European author.
First step: The Man in the Iron Mask by Dumas?
Second step: There are three prominent possibilities I can think of. I'll go first for the one that doesn't fit with the others: Azaghal, Lord of Belegost, though no doubt he'd resent being referred to as a man, even obliquely.
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
They are presumed missing in the North and the South, some hobbits wonder if there ever was a king in the first place. If they hadnt been "forgotten" agents of Sauron would have hunted them down.
Second step: There are three prominent possibilities I can think of. I'll go first for the one that doesn't fit with the others: Azaghal, Lord of Belegost, though no doubt he'd resent being referred to as a man, even obliquely.
Ding ding ding! Nicely done, and thanks for unraveling that one.
Well, I'm glad you liked it when all was said and done. I think in the future I will have to use that format judiciously, and when presenting two step riddles like that should probably provide some limiting parameters up front. It's one thing to ask our group to find the needle in a haystack consisting of three books by JRRT. It's quite another when the haystack consists of the entire breadth of world mythology, modern literature and popular culture.
"I do not counsel prudence." i.e., the apparent folly of Gandalf (Called by Aragorn "our captain and our banner.") in advising a frontal assault on Mordor after Pellenor?
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
"I do not counsel prudence." i.e., the apparent folly of Gandalf (Called by Aragorn "our captain and our banner.") in advising a frontal assault on Mordor after Pellenor?
Captain's Folly:
My next guess would be Arvedui refusing the counsel of the Lossoth and getting aboard the ship that would be wrecked by a storm of the Witch-king ending the line of the kings and losing two of the palantiri.
Folly actually can have a specific meaning in connection with a place. It means something to the effect of an building or structure that is inordinately extravagant but of little practical purpose. It could be that Konstantin is using it in that sense, but I am struggling to think of an example of such a structure in LotR, much less one that was built by a "captain."
Did Aldarion the great sea-captain build such a structure for Erendis? Would his massive ship count? I wouldn't think so since I don't recall it having an accident and sinking.
Did Earnur build anything that might qualify?
There is Bronwe's Folly in near Archet in LOTRO, but that was invented for the game and as I recall Berephon just made up the name Bronwe (or rather appropriated for use with LOTRO without a lore basis).
Im pretty sure the Old Winyards vintage of 2980 was known as "Captains Folly" to commemorate the drunken night time boating antics of "Captain" Drogo Baggins.
Vinyalonde was considered a folly by Tar Aldarions daughter and fell into disuse and wasnt compeleted untill the war between Sauron and the elves.
All good answers, everyone, but Morthaur you are correct. Tar-Aldarion was the "Great Captain", and even in his lifetime most thought Vinyalonde to be folly (considering it fell apart almost every single time he left Middle-Earth).
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Originally Posted by Vilnas
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