Thread: Haunted Burrow Map - *SPOILER*

*SPOILER WARNING*

I have prepared a map of the Haunted Burrow which I'd like to offer to anyone who may be interested in such a thing. The Haunted Burrow is possibly the most interesting (and fun) festival event we've seen thus far. And while I encourage everyone to explore the space on their own I know there are those who will benefit greatly by having a map to study.

This drawing was prepared with rudimentary survey techniques and details the locations of walls within the space, connections between areas and locations of items within those areas. Apart from that, the map gives no indication of what to do, or where to go first - you'll have to work all that out yourself.

I'm providing links instead of images here to prevent the undue spoilage of surprises. This way, you'll have to click a link if you want the map. I'm providing the map in PNG format in 2 resolutions as well as PDF file suitable for printing (the suggested course of action). So, for the cartographically challenged, I present, The Haunted Burrow Survey:

The Haunted Burrow Sm v1.1.PNG (1600x1236) {for viewing}
The Haunted Burrow Lg v1.1.PNG (6600x5100) {for printing}
The Haunted Burrow v1.1.PDF (4000 DPI) {for anything}

Note: If you print the PDF on 8.5" x 11" paper it should come out to scale (or very near to it).

Note: Also, if the map looks fuzzy - zoom in. There's plenty of resolution in these images (excepting the first one).

AWESOME!
+rep

Excellent job! Thank you very much for making this and sharing it, especially at high resolutions. +rep

Awesome! I had started doing this with graph paper and a pencil, your map is much prettier than mine!

Wow, good job.

Though I won't actually be looking at it until I run this myself a few times. I like surprises

Thank you all for your most kind and supportive comments! I'm very glad you like the map and hope it serves you well during the festival!

Originally Posted by Nardian

AWESOME!
+rep

Thank you very much Nardian! Plus rep is always appreciated!

Originally Posted by cipher_nemo

Excellent job! Thank you very much for making this and sharing it, especially at high resolutions. +rep

Thank you as well Cipher_nemo! I'm glad I went ahead and pushed the resolutions up now. I didn't know if anyone would find that useful but I'm very glad you did. It should make it easier to print and still be able to read everything.

Originally Posted by rhondalicious

Awesome! I had started doing this with graph paper and a pencil, your map is much prettier than mine!

Thank you also, Rhondalicious! I started in the same place - with graph paper and a mechanical pencil. And trust me, if it wasn't for the drafting software my map wouldn't have been pretty at all!

Originally Posted by Rawlor

Wow, good job.

Though I won't actually be looking at it until I run this myself a few times. I like surprises

Thank you too, Rawlor! I totally understand...that's why I posted links to images and not just images. I like making maps, but I don't like spoiling surprises! And it wouldn't surprise me a bit if, after a few runs, you find you don't need a map at all.

Very nice work!

A minor quible (and mild spoiler)-










you can get Bilbo's wine in places other than the ones you show.

Nonetheless, +1 rep for you.

Awesome, some rep4u!

Great job! Thanks for all your hard work!

nice... I'll definitely check the cellar out tonight.

Rep added,

Always love to see people putting in the yards for the community.

I've downloaded the pdf, but wont use it until I'm done .. I just love the work that has gone into this festival..

here's to hoping that the Devs can put this much work into the next raid cluster, and make it as much fun

As a (VERY) directionally challenged person - I thank you for this (Finding the poor scared hobbits today took me 45 minutes ) At the rate I'm going, I *might* get in a speed run on the day the festival closes!!!

Nice map, thanks!

my map it is in my mind, but we can do the quests again in 9 hours so... thanks for that man ^^ i don't have too much memory

Really impressive and clear design, thank you

You can haz rep! Great map, will be useful for someone like me who gets lost easily.

thanks for sharing

Excellent -- thank you! I'm going to try it on my own, but nice to know I have the map bookmarked for when I assuredly become lost!

+repcookies for the map. Now I'll just do it the easy way a couple of times until my brain catches on! YAY for helpful people!

I had made myself a crude map as well because I kept getting turned around & now looking at your layouts, I see I kept going between the Main Cellar & the Basement & didn't realize they were two different areas. Hah. Guess I need to buff my Dungeonering stat. Consider yourself rep'd.

Thanks for taking the time to do this. +Rep for you!

I just wanted to say thanks for all the positive responses from everyone. I'm not going to try to respond to everyone individually, but please know I appreciate the positive feedback (and +rep) you've all provided. I'm very very glad you all like the map and find it useful.

Sthrax - That's no minor quibble - that's an important detail and I'm glad you brought it to my attention! I don't know if the quest has changed since I made the map or if I just overlooked something from the start. Either way, I will investigate this anomaly and have a corrected version of the map available as soon as I can. Thanks again for pointing it out.

And thanks again to everyone who's posted in this thread. It really does mean a lot to me.

Nice map! One issue:

For the Valuables Gone Astray quest, only one cocoon, etc. is correct and remains correct every time you start the quest.

Originally Posted by Rainyman

Nice map! One issue:

For the Valuables Gone Astray quest, only one cocoon, etc. is correct and remains correct every time you start the quest.

Thank you very much. And yes, you are correct. However, there's a lot of people who will want to solve the puzzles themselves and I wanted the map to be useful to as wide an audience as possible. So, I made the map to help more with navigation than quest completion.

But you're absolutely right. It's in the same place every time and I showed all the different locations - on purpose. But at least you know why now.

What program did you use to create this?
It is very well designed.

Originally Posted by Dyfrin

What program did you use to create this?
It is very well designed.

He mentioned this in a different thread, so I'll quote him for this thread...

Originally Posted by TheREALify

Yes, the drawing was prepared using AutoCAD (well spotted by the way). I've been working in the survey field for several years now and I basically superimposed my job onto the game and did a proper survey and drawing of the Haunted Burrow (mostly just to see if I could).

It is well designed. It's a great starter map for those going there the first time to fully understand it. After they have it memorized or at least are familiar with it, CasualStrollToMordor's map is easier for a quick reference. This map is more detailed and technical to help with learning the Haunted Burrow.

Ah auto cad (didn't want to assume so, but the one circle with black/white with arrow protruding is indication of it, didn't know if he copied it as an icon or not)... I was about to attempt it with illustrator, but for all that cs5 mc can do, it really isn't set up to do that.. without lots of segments. So I gave up before I even began.

Hello, sorry I'm late and thanks for picking up the slack for me, Cipher_nemo.

Yes, I used AutoCAD. It's a great program and I use it a lot at work (and at home)! I've never used illustrator but I can't even imagine doing this project without AutoCAD. Regarding the North arrow and scale: even thought they may look like any other North arrow and scale on any other set of plans, I did actually draw them myself.

I'm still not sure why I included a scale though. I can't imagine anyone actually checking dimensions with it - but they could!

I realized that some of the folks that had tried to download the PDF were denied because the daily bandwidth had been exceeded on the host I was using. Well, I've got the files somewhere else now so no one should get denied anymore. Just wanted to give you a heads up and let you know the link should be working again if anyone still needs the PDF.

Originally Posted by Sthrax

...you can get Bilbo's wine in places other than the ones you show...

I finally got around to addressing this issue - thank you for bringing it to my attention. I added two locations and produced new image files. All the links in the first post have been updated. If anyone knows of anything that's missing or inaccurate in regards to the map, please let me know and I'll make the appropriate changes.

It's that time of year again and Harvestmath is upon us. And what Harvestmath Festival would be complete without a romp through the Haunted Burrow?

I haven't had the opportunity to visit the Haunted Burrow this year so I don't know whether my map is as accurate this year as it was last year. However, I suspect that the Haunted Burrow map has changed little over the intervening months. So, for those who may benefit from it I present:

The Haunted Burrow Survey

Equally useful for the cartographically challenged, the discerning sightseer or the discriminating speed-runner. All the links from the original post still work, but I'll reproduce them here for ease of access.

And please - if you notice anything on the map that looks inaccurate, out of place or outdated please let me know and I will update the map as soon as I'm able. Links follow...

The Haunted Burrow Sm v1.1.PNG (1600x1236) {for viewing}
The Haunted Burrow Lg v1.1.PNG (6600x5100) {for printing}
The Haunted Burrow v1.1.PDF (4000 DPI) {for anything}

Note: If you print the PDF on 8.5" x 11" paper it should come out to scale (or very near to it).

Note: Also, if the map looks fuzzy - zoom in. There's plenty of resolution in these images (excepting the first one).

Wow - this is the single most useful (and best executed!) player contribution to the game I've ever seen, bar none.

Thank you *SO* much for enabling players like me - who, even after three years in-game, can still get lost in Bree-town! - to actually attempt one or two of the Haunted Burrow Quests.

I gave The Haunted Burrow my best shot - several hours' worth of wandering, resulting in much non-success! - before sadly deciding that it just "wasn't for me", after managing to complete only one of the Quests (and an easy one, too: finding the six Scared Hobbits): I really could no longer stand wandering in circles, ending up back in the rooms where I started (er, 20 times in a row, or so, for each room!) and generally having less of a "scary" time than a pretty frustrating one. I have literally zero sense of direction, and of course the in-game maps of the Burrow are purposely vague, so chancing upon your map has been an absolute delight.

Not only do I finally get a sporting chance at completing a couple more of the Burrow Quests, but I might even be lucky enough to complete one or other of the timed ones (!!), which really was unthinkable without your most beautifully drafted cartography to consult.

Even though your map has every last detail, and is spectacularly accurate (how did you DO that?!), I'm resisting the urge to just follow it slavishly... I'm using it instead as an invaluable "emergency assistance" tool, to consult when desperate, so I still get plenty of chances to enjoy getting lost and run around in the dark... only now, I don't HAVE to spend an hour finding the exit door once I decide that enough is enough and end up porting out - er, yes, I really did have to do that in the end...!

Rather like having the answers to a crossword given at the back of a newspaper, this wonderful map allows players to do their best with The Haunted Burrow unaided, but also gives them an optional fallback when the sheer misery of circular running takes over. It enhances the Burrow, rather than "spoiling" it - well, for me, at least. There may well be others who will be really pleased to be able to follow your map step by step, and if so, good luck to them too!

If I could give you more than one +Rep, I would - it goes without saying that the one vote I *can* give you is cast.

Thank you so much. You've just turned horrid frustration into great fun, for me. Priceless.

Best,

Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

P.S. : If any Turbine Reps should be reading: I'd like to nominate TheREALify for a Forum Title - how about "The Burrower", since surely nobody else in the game can have earned any greater right to wear that Title...?!

Thank you very much! I appreciate your work and dedication.

Although I have learnt my way through the Burrow, I like this map as a collection item . I was wondering if somebody could do an aged, parchment like one so we could print it and frame it ? I would do this myself, but I am not so talented...I come up only with the ideas .

Great maps Very detailed.

Wow - I really must start checking the forums more regularly on the weekends!

Originally Posted by Demelza

Wow - this is the single most useful (and best executed!) player contribution to the game I've ever seen, bar none.

Thank you so much! I'm not sure how to even respond to your most kind words and glowing review! Heck, if I didn't know better I'd have thought this post was written by me!!

In all seriousness and with the greatest of sincerity, thank you. I don't know if I'd agree with your assessment (check out this Warden skill chart! This chart made me want to start a warden - and I did!) but I do honestly appreciate your compliments. It means a lot to me.

Originally Posted by Demelza

Thank you *SO* much for enabling players like me - who, even after three years in-game, can still get lost in Bree-town! - to actually attempt one or two of the Haunted Burrow Quests.

I gave The Haunted Burrow my best shot - several hours' worth of wandering, resulting in much non-success! - before sadly deciding that it just "wasn't for me", after managing to complete only one of the Quests (and an easy one, too: finding the six Scared Hobbits): I really could no longer stand wandering in circles, ending up back in the rooms where I started (er, 20 times in a row, or so, for each room!) and generally having less of a "scary" time than a pretty frustrating one. I have literally zero sense of direction, and of course the in-game maps of the Burrow are purposely vague, so chancing upon your map has been an absolute delight.

I'm very glad to hear this, Demelza! You (and other players like yourself) are exactly who I hoped to help with this map. I happened to get into beta and got an early look at the Haunted Burrow. As soon as I saw how things worked in the Haunted Burrow I knew I was going to make a map. It was a labor of love, but has been well worth the effort. Your response is the "chery on top" so to speak.

Originally Posted by Demelza

[...] Even though your map has every last detail, and is spectacularly accurate (how did you DO that?!), I'm resisting the urge to just follow it slavishly...

And now I'm resisting the urge to launch into a detailed description of exactly how I made that map! Trust me, I could go on and on for pages about the techniques involved. (Click on the "Coordinate Systems" link in my signature for a sample of my longwindedness.)

Instead I'll just say that I'm a guy who works for a small Engineering and Survey company. I basically superimposed what I do in my day-to-day job onto the game. I employed the same survey techniques for the Haunted Burrow map that I would have used in any other type of Topographic Survey in the real world. I collected data in the field, I processed it into useable coordinates, brought the data into AutoCAD and then made a drawing from it. As such, yes, the results are very accurate and drawn to scale. Thank you so much for noticing!

Originally Posted by Demelza

I'm using it instead as an invaluable "emergency assistance" tool, to consult when desperate, so I still get plenty of chances to enjoy getting lost and run around in the dark... only now, I don't HAVE to spend an hour finding the exit door once I decide that enough is enough and end up porting out - er, yes, I really did have to do that in the end...!

Rather like having the answers to a crossword given at the back of a newspaper, this wonderful map allows players to do their best with The Haunted Burrow unaided, but also gives them an optional fallback when the sheer misery of circular running takes over. It enhances the Burrow, rather than "spoiling" it - well, for me, at least. There may well be others who will be really pleased to be able to follow your map step by step, and if so, good luck to them too!

If I could give you more than one +Rep, I would - it goes without saying that the one vote I *can* give you is cast.

Thank you so much. You've just turned horrid frustration into great fun, for me. Priceless.

Best,

Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

Again, that's pretty much how I'd hoped the map would be used. I didn't want to give away all the answers or riddles - I just wanted to make it easier for players to find those answers and solve those riddles on their own. And thank you (all) for the +rep. It isn't necessary but it's always appreciated. Moreover, I'm just glad everyone likes the map and finds it useful!

Originally Posted by Demelza

P.S. : If any Turbine Reps should be reading: I'd like to nominate TheREALify for a Forum Title - how about "The Burrower", since surely nobody else in the game can have earned any greater right to wear that Title...?!

You really are far too kind. I do agree that I think there are very few (if any) others running surveys inside the virtual realm of LotR:O, but I doubt I will be recognized with a special forum title as I tend to be somewhat critical of Turbine. I certainly wouldn't mind it though! And, if I may be so bold, I would ask for either "Cartographer of Realms" of "Surveyor of Realms".

Again, thank you for your most kind and generous comments, Demelza! It's comments like yours (and those of others) that make the project feel like time well spent!

PS. Please forgive me. I had to take out your smiley faces so I could add some of my own. Something to do with the law of conservation of smileys... :P

Originally Posted by Rosslin

Thank you very much! I appreciate your work and dedication.

Although I have learnt my way through the Burrow, I like this map as a collection item. I was wondering if somebody could do an aged, parchment like one so we could print it and frame it ? I would do this myself, but I am not so talented...I come up only with the ideas.

Thank you, Rosslin. I like your idea! I hadn't really thought about it before you suggested it but I think that would look pretty cool. I'm not sure how we could get a copy of the parchment that is layered under all the in-game maps. But it shouldn't be too hard to layer that parchment under the map. I suspect the parchment would have to be whited-out in the middle so that any texture in the parchment wouldn't interfere with the fine lines of the map. I may work on that for next years Harvestmath festival. If anyone else who is reading this wants to do it themselves you have my official okie-dokie to reuse the Haunted Burrow map in any way you see fit! I drew it - but the map belongs to the community.

PS. You'd frame it? Really? Wow, that's just awesome! I'm glad you like it enough to consider putting it on your wall! Of course it's on my wall - I just didn't expect anyone else to want to put it on theirs!

Originally Posted by Eartholloth

Great maps Very detailed.

Thank you for saying so, Eartholloth! I'm glad you like the maps!

Again, thanks to all who have posted a response. I'm glad you found the map / survey useful. I only wish I'd been able to get it to you sooner. But, I suppose it's about time to roll it up and store it away till next year. Thanks again for all the kind comments!

I didn't need this - I've been doing all 10 daily quests on 9 alts since almost the start of the event, so I'm almost at the point I can navigate the burrow on sound alone - but nice work nonetheless. +rep.

Originally Posted by TheREALify

I have prepared a map of the Haunted Burrow which I'd like to offer to anyone who may be interested in such a thing.

Well-done; thanks for sharing.

I could have sworn someone had posted information about the burrow when it first launched, in fact, I think I still have the thread link in my browser.

http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/...lfestival2010/

Nothing has changed as far as I am aware, it's all the same content as before with only mount changes. The map on the site is the same map I used last year, and really, once you've done the thing more than 50 times, it's pretty much burned into memory; if there were cheese in the middle you'd find it before the proverbial rat did.

And after looking over the maps and comparing to the old one on CSTM, I find I like the old one better. It's just easier on the eyes, and less graphical spaghetti. My opinion though, I like the simplicity of the old one. About the only benefit to the new maps is perhaps a lot less use of the black ink. But the map had some nice pics on it, worth the ink in my opinion. You do do a good job TheREALify. Thanks for making my burrow travels easier to remember.

Now if Turbine could swap portals around, that would be something to get the brain working again.

Originally Posted by DarkAkuma

I didn't need this - I've been doing all 10 daily quests on 9 alts since almost the start of the event, so I'm almost at the point I can navigate the burrow on sound alone - but nice work nonetheless. +rep.

I totally understand. I've been doing the exact same thing. But I reached my quota days ago and as such have stopped the madness! Thanks for the compliment and reputation.

Originally Posted by auximenes

Well-done; thanks for sharing.

You're welcome! Thanks for the compliment.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Probitas,

I had to read your post several times before it clicked for me. Correct me if I'm wrong but, after reading your post I get the feeling that you are under the impression that the map you are commenting on was posted recently, perhaps during the 2011 Harvestmath festival. If you check the date on the first post in this thread and the date on the CSTM map page you linked you'll find that the were both made available on the same date - though I think CSTM beat me by a few hours. In other words, I started this map thread last year but it's still hanging around. I did, however, give this thread a bump when the Harvestmath Festival opened this year.

Apart from that, you made some interesting comments I'd like to respond to. I also agree that perhaps most of the people who visit the Haunted Burrow probably don't need a map anymore. Once you learn the connections, create your own course through the maze, the need for a map is minimal. However, there are always new players coming in and players who need help getting their bearings in the maze. For them a workable map will always be a benefit.

Originally Posted by probitas

[...] And after looking over the maps and comparing to the old one on CSTM, I find I like the old one better. It's just easier on the eyes, and less graphical spaghetti. My opinion though, I like the simplicity of the old one. About the only benefit to the new maps is perhaps a lot less use of the black ink. But the map had some nice pics on it, worth the ink in my opinion. You do do a good job TheREALify. Thanks for making my burrow travels easier to remember.

First, thank you for the compliment. I think there's something to be said for each version. However, I agree with you. I always thought that the survey map (my map), with all the door connections drawn in, bore a striking resemblance to a plate of spaghetti. I did what I could to minimize the mess but it's still difficult to follow.

You really hit one of the main issues right on the head. I always intended/expected my map to be printed. That's why it's black on white and formatted to fit nicely on an 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper. It's also why I included very high-resolution versions of the map - so that it would look as good printed as it did on the screen. Also, I figured people who only have one monitor may want to have a map they could print instead of alt-tabbing between windows.

Also, this was an experiment of the in-game survey methodology I'd dreamed up. I'd thought about it for a long time and when I saw the Haunted Burrow in beta I knew this was the place I was going to put my methodology to the test. Short story - it worked. I was pleased enough with the results that I wanted to share. I cleaned it up as much as I could, tried to present all the information succinctly while still remaining true to the 'survey' nature of the project. I could have moved the various wings around to untangle the spaghetti some, but it wouldn't have been an accurate depiction of the area. In the end I found what I felt was a fair compromise between accuracy and readability. (For example, I had to move the basement as it actually exists directly below the Main Cellar.)

Essentially though, the CSTM map and mine convey all the same information, they fulfill the same need. The only difference being a few minor details that surround them - like how much ink is it going to use up if you print it. Both maps work the same. This gives players more options and I think that's almost always a good thing!

Originally Posted by probitas

Now if Turbine could swap portals around, that would be something to get the brain working again.

I wondered if they would do that! There's certainly enough doors that it would be easy to re-route traffic in there. I think you'll understand when I say I was both disappointed and relieved to find the Haunted Burrow worked exactly the same as it did last year.

Map Still Works Nicely :3