Discussion: Remove daily deed advancement limit

Please remove the limit as to how far you can advance a deed per day.

Now that LotRO is F2P it makes little sense to have an arbitrary limit on deed progress. Back when the only way to play was to subscribe, this meant that you (Turbine) were guaranteed that people would be subscribed as long as possible to complete their deeds.

I propose either the limit be removed or an item be placed in the store that you can buy per character to remove the limit.

I think it still makes sense as if provides a throttling mechanism for how fast a non-paying player can earn TPs. There has to have some incentives to buy TPs and thus generate revenue. Remember, the commercial goal is still to persuade players to pay something, even if it is not a subscription. Your suggestion of a limited time per-character limit increase or removal might be a suitale compromise.

Envoyé par mjk47

I think it still makes sense as if provides a throttling mechanism for how fast a non-paying player can earn TPs. There has to have some incentives to buy TPs and thus generate revenue. Remember, the commercial goal is still to persuade players to pay something, even if it is not a subscription. Your suggestion of a limited time per-character limit increase or removal might be a suitale compromise.

It's a throttling mechanic on how fast anybody can go from noob to fully traited 65 as well, and an annoying one at that.

I see why it's there, understand why it's there, but that doesn't mean i have to like it =P

Envoyé par Almagnus1

It's a throttling mechanic on how fast anybody can go from noob to fully traited 65 as well, and an annoying one at that.

I see why it's there, understand why it's there, but that doesn't mean i have to like it =P

Taking less than 6 months would be an unseemly rush.

Sounds like an argument for removing the daily cap for subscribers!

It's always been a nonsensical P.I.T.A.

Why is it unreasonable to just sit there and spend 5 hours completing a deed? Never understood this garbage.

I do not agree with the OP at all.

I think the most it takes to complete any other those deeds is 10 days if you really work at it. 10 days is not forever and is not too long.

Envoyé par Maxal

I think the most it takes to complete any other those deeds is 10 days if you really work at it. 10 days is not forever and is not too long.

I have to agree with this analysis. A hard worker can get to from level 1 - 65 in two weeks. Have all their class quests and deeds done by the end of the month. The daily limit on class skill deeds is not serious issue. The issue is finding enough game play hours to accomplish all the tasks - 64 levels - class quests - virtues - class quests - racial deeds - class skill deeds - gathering pages.

It is mind boggling planning operation to get it all done. I could never do it in a month. I do not have the planning and execution skills. I am sure there is someone could do it. The less dedicated you are on a daily basis. The less a barrier the daily limit is.

On spammable skills (Most gambits and skills that a soloer would use all the time anyway), the cap makes a good bit of sense imo. On skills that are not . . . those with long CDs, reactive skills (as well as other deeds requiring a roll of the dice, like "Crit with" or "Evade an attack"), and those with other requirements that make it a pain to do (Dark Before Dawn one, rez deeds, the RK skills that require high Healing attunement) should not have those limits.

I pay a subscription every month to play. I expect to be able to work on my deeds when and for how long I please. Not to mention the new daily task.

Remove this limit.

1) Completely remove the cap for Subscibers

They are paying for the game so throttling them is excessive attempts at trying to wallet gouge

2) Trait Deeds should NOT be capped at all

Slayer or hobbie deeds... I can sort of understand since you earn TP for them and it's essentially cosmetic.

Throttling the ability to get traits for classes is entirely silly and borderline ******** when some skills can be difficult to actually use. I.E RKs being unable to get sufficient Attuenement to USE the skills let alone use them enough.
Either the amount for these kinds of skills needs to be reduced or the cap limit removed so that they can be gotten as fast as the person is willing to grind doing it.

If I spend an entire day using a skill then I should be able to get FULL credit for doing so. Not hit my head against an invisible barrier that says only X amount of skill usage counts...

Envoyé par Galabrien

Slayer or hobbie deeds... I can sort of understand since you earn TP for them and it's essentially cosmetic.

1. Slayer deeds do not have a daily limit.
2. Slayer deeds give you virtues (which are vital at high levels), not just some cosmetic title.

Envoyé par StavroMuellerBeta

1. Slayer deeds do not have a daily limit.
2. Slayer deeds give you virtues (which are vital at high levels), not just some cosmetic title.

So one can kill hundreds of NPCs and get virtues without being capped but skill usage is capped, do you not see why this is insanely stupid ?

Envoyé par Galabrien

So one can kill hundreds of NPCs and get virtues without being capped but skill usage is capped, do you not see why this is insanely stupid ?

Personally, I think both are stupid. Casting a skill x hundred times won't teach my character anything more than a book can (which is how higher level traits are bestowed), and killing 400+ of any one particular type of mob won't magically cause my character to magically gain removable stats.

To me, all of these grinds seem to be the devs saying "ok, we're getting low on content, so here's a grind to keep you going back to the older areas for a few more months".

I personally find it ludicrous that killing stuff improves my character's traits. The whole kill x to gain y thing is so incredibly archaic and out of fashion in nearly every other MMO. I fail to see why Turbine hangs onto this primitive model of advancement.

I yearn for an MMO where i can develop my character without killing 200 wolves who never did anything to me..

Exploration deeds? Make sense. Crafting? Same. Downing an epic boss/tyrant? Fine. But I still have yet to work out how killing 90 slugs makes me slightly more agile. Insane with boredom maybe, but not agile.

Time sink pure and simple.

Envoyé par Playswithmatches

I pay a subscription every month to play. I expect to be able to work on my deeds when and for how long I please. Not to mention the new daily task.

Remove this limit.

Now that class deeds give Turbine Points Turbine will never remove this limit. It prevents customers from creating characters leveling them up. Quickly grinding the early class deeds for points.

This is the same reason players are limited to five tasks per day to start with. Turbine does not want players grinding tasks for the rewards.

Envoyé par Yula_the_Mighty

Now that class deeds give Turbine Points Turbine will never remove this limit. It prevents customers from creating characters leveling them up. Quickly grinding the early class deeds for points.

This is the same reason players are limited to five tasks per day to start with. Turbine does not want players grinding tasks for the rewards.

Then what is the point of having task and deeds if your not allowed to enjoy the rewards? Or at least you can't enjoy them until Turbine says it's ok.

The ten points or so I get for completing a deed with not break Turbines store. It cost 295 tp just to get a lousy emote!

Envoyé par Playswithmatches

Then what is the point of having task and deeds if your not allowed to enjoy the rewards? Or at least you can't enjoy them until Turbine says it's ok.

The ten points or so I get for completing a deed with not break Turbines store. It cost 295 tp just to get a lousy emote!

Turbine is not giving us Turbine Points via in game activities just to be nice. They are a teaser just like a half price coupon to get us to buy points with dollars. The free points are figured into the prices just like coupon discounts are figured into the prices of everything a store sells. The more free points they let us get --> The higher prices of stuff in the store will be in Turbine Points.

Like the airline years ago that decided they could save dollars by taking one cherry tomato out of every airline salad. That single tomato did not cost much. The optimization folks went - we use millions of these tomatoes in a year. One tomato per salad works out to be $10,000 over the course of a year. That ten points - ARV - ten cents is multiplied across all the characters and players. It works out to be a decent number of dollars across the entire customer base.

It is this method that companies use to save money. They do not save money via a big cost savings. It is thousands of little savings of thousand here, ten thousand there for a billion dollar a year company done by knocking one cent of something they buy or do a lot.

It is the most effective way to save money at the personal level. You buy a coffee from Dunkin Donuts on the way to work. That is 250 coffees a year for most people (50 work weeks - 5 days a week). Easy way to save 500 dollars.

The tasks are the same way. A teaser to give players a little of reward each real time day. Only for a limited range of levels. You want more reputation. More experience points. You have to access the quests in the region. That means buying a content pack. You need points for that. You can not get them by grinding class deeds - they are daily limited. So you have to buy the points with dollars. That what Turbine wants. Dollars.

For folks like me. I have a lifetime. If there something in the store I want. I got my stipend. I got limits on class deeds for earning points. I either have to wait. Or I have to put dollars into the basket. I am like most people. I did not want to wait. I put some dollars - 50 for the 6,900 pt specials.

Bottom line - Companies do not see it as 10 cent for a deed. They sum the ARV of all such deeds done by entire customer base over a period of time like a month.

I have no issues with the deed limit per day. I still have a couple on my LM I have not finished. Why, because I am not going to sit someplace and hit Share the power 75 times a day. If I did I would have that finished in two or three more days. but to me that is just plain boring and a waste of my playing time.

If there was no limit you know that some folks would sit in a safe location and do this 750 times in a row to get the 5 or 10 TP along with the trait. But they would not do it at their home they would pick someplace like the middle of the 21st hall and do it over and over and over.

So I am happy for the way it works. But them again I understand how business does try to save money. I use to help other companies find ways to improve their bottom line. So I know how removing a simple set in an operation or an item from a salad can save a ton of money for a company.

I'm only a premium player, but I do agree with both parts. Subscribed players shouldn't have deed limits, but since Turbine gives Turbine points for completing them, I understand why they do want to limit them.

As a F2P player, the only thing I'd wish is that the deeds would change color in the tracker when you reach their limits. That way, I would know a lot faster when it's useless to keep on using certain skills for the day.

The only thing I care about is being unable to level trait deeds.

The cap needs to be removed on these or simply allow players to BUY these traits from the class vendor when they reach appropriate levels. This is not just some cosmetic title or virtue which you can BUY from the store or earn across multiple areas.

These class traits are part of the class functionality and should be uncapped. If someone wants to sit and cast X skill 300 times to earn the deed... so what ?
In some situations that isnt even possible I.E RKs are going to be unable to reach the proper attunement to earn their own traits unless they are in combat.

What is extremely annoying is the simple fact a player could end up using that specific skill 300 times in a day but only X amount will count because for some unfathomable reason ACTUAL CLASS FUNTIONALITY is being throttled based on an arbitary number set for... no reason but to create a pointless grind.
Remove the turbine point reward from the Trait Deeds and farming no longer becomes an issue from the traits.

I think removing the cap is not required, but have level delimits would make things better. I have a friend that played a Warden and a lot of warden trait skills required a lot of different combo uses. Once he was 65 he wanted to go back and finish a trait that would allow him to gain aggro easier but couldn't do it in time for our instances because he got caped.

This is where the problem is, why should a level 65 player not be able to go use his skills and get his trait deeds maxed? Why must he wait 10 days? In general if someone wants to work hard and complete their 1000 uses of a skill in a day they should be allowed to they chose to do that and worked for it no matter what.

The mechanism is there, as much as anything, to prevent the kind of grinding you're talking about.

Turbine puts a lot of effort into crafting quests and incorporating lore. They dont want you to just go out and kill 80,000 random spawns till you hit your level, farm your mats, grind your deeds, etc. Daily caps mean that you can progress your daily allotment in the course of normal gameplay, more naturally, without having to go out and grind for every achievement, to be better equipped to go grind somewhere else.

And before someone counters with "i should be able to grind if i wanna grind!", there are plenty of games centered around grinding. Go play SotNW. If everyone just grinds, it detracts from overall gameplay because things happen like: no one groups because everyone's out killing 400 wargs or whatever; everyone plays the same class because they're the best grinders; grind spots get overcamped and then people ***** that they cant advance their deeds; no one crafts; the devs get frustrated building content no one does, and so the game gets boiled down to numbers and minmaxing with a LotR skin.

I like to think that Turbine is testing the waters with tasks and the reset feature in the store. I expect it won't be long before we see resets for cooldowns of all flavours available in the store.

Envoyé par droid

The mechanism is there, as much as anything, to prevent the kind of grinding you're talking about.

Turbine puts a lot of effort into crafting quests and incorporating lore. They dont want you to just go out and kill 80,000 random spawns till you hit your level, farm your mats, grind your deeds, etc. Daily caps mean that you can progress your daily allotment in the course of normal gameplay, more naturally, without having to go out and grind for every achievement, to be better equipped to go grind somewhere else.

And before someone counters with "i should be able to grind if i wanna grind!", there are plenty of games centered around grinding. Go play SotNW. If everyone just grinds, it detracts from overall gameplay because things happen like: no one groups because everyone's out killing 400 wargs or whatever; everyone plays the same class because they're the best grinders; grind spots get overcamped and then people ***** that they cant advance their deeds; no one crafts; the devs get frustrated building content no one does, and so the game gets boiled down to numbers and minmaxing with a LotR skin.

Being able to grind is a way of playing the game. Removing that is forcing some people to do quests and such. The point is that people should have multiple ways to level and if they want to grind they can grind. It a design concept.

Envoyé par droid

Go play SotNW.

Instead of sentencing criminals to prison time, I suggest they be forced to play SotNW for a few months. I know I would certainly go straight-&-narrow to avoid such a fate.

Do subscribers have the daily deed advancement limit? If so, why? It can't be simply because Turbine doesn't want us grinding endlessly for TPs, because you can do that on Slayer Deeds as it stands now -- burn through all Ered Luin, Shire, & Bree-lands Slayer Deeds, get TPs, delete character, wash-rinse-repeat. I note that even non-subscribers can do that.

Since the pace of leveling has been sped up so dramatically, I think they need to modify the trait skill gain accordingly. 10% or whatever per day used to make sense, but seeing as you can probably get to lvl 20 in a day or two, all the system does is create gimped characters for the first grouping instance. I'm fine with cool downs, but they should take into account the pace of leveling, or new traits should be added to balance a character until the system can catch-up. That or tell characters to roll lots of alts.

Envoyé par droid

there are plenty of games centered around grinding. Go play SotNW.

This seems to be status quo. You aren't the first person to join this game and tell all the existing players they should go find something else to play if they want to enjoy the kind of game they have been all along with this title.

Envoyé par Kanathalas

Once he was 65 he wanted to go back and finish a trait that would allow him to gain aggro easier but couldn't do it in time for our instances because he got caped.

Once I got to Bree-land at level 16, I wanted to challenge the Watcher, the level 60 Moria Instance... but I couldn't because I was 44 levels too low. What is the solution to this problem? Its no different than what you describe. Why are you playing the game if you hate playing the game so much?

I think the limits are just fine as is. We are about 2 steps away from ChaTRO... the very pretty IM client that sells funny hats on the side.

As a subscriber I personally feel Turbine can keep their points. I have 3500+ sitting in credit and nothing I want to spend them on.

They remove the limits, I'll surrender my points. Deal?

Actually, if you're willing to spend a wee bit of points, like 75 or 100 I think (easy to grind out with Slayer rerolls IMO), you can get Class Deed Accelerators from the LOTRO store. Not only does you Deed limit get lifted (while the accelerator lasts), but you also get double credit for each skill use. I thin LOTRO did this as a concession to people that want the deed limit removed while also making sure they make a hopeful profit off of Turbine Points.