Thread: The Palantir Private Preview Program

Oh! Exciting! A new name! Great FAQ, Ms. Keyl!

Originally Posted by Khafar

Game developers have tight testing windows, and if you're quite busy in real life much of the time, you simply might not be able to help when they need it.

This is the part I'm worried about. Ie, is this a "please log in during east coast hours" sort of thing so that the devs are still online? Or is it a "please test this feature today and today only"? Is this a case of having to monitor the particular forums carefully and daily (a pain with the new forums)?

Generally when I was on Bullroarer I did things at my own pace. I tried to avoid the masses all going to whatever the fashion was, and instead focused on what I thought was useful for for me and my kin and friends; ie, does the low level content still work, does the new storyline make sense, etc. The weekly focused testing often tended to be askew from what I was doing - I had not interest in doing helegrod that week, and probably I didn't have the skills either; or I had already tested the festival stuff the week before; etc. I could never tell if I was the first player to find an obscure bug or merely the one thousandth.

On the other hand, I'd love the chance to do stuff like comment on some of this stuff before they get to the "too late to change it now" bullroarer stage.

Originally Posted by Arbalister

It was a stress test. It *was* planned for. It was planned that we'd pooch the server. That's the entire point.

And it was declared a success after the fact. They learned about issues that needed fixing - a success in my book. The idea of these events wasn't to have fun, so it doesn't matter if two sides in the moors are just staring at each other unable to move.

The other important point here is that Palantir isn't a "beta test", and it isn't replacing Bullroarer. It's replacing Isengard, which was earlier testing than the "nearly ready for release preview-beta". It's a severely smaller set of testers as well.

It seems like a strange coincidence that this new program has the exact same name as one of the most popular lua plugins, maybe even a little confusing. I seen this post and immediately thought Turbine was doing something with the plugin.

Didn't see anything in the original post about it, but asking as I'm unsure...Do you allow Canadians into your testing program? Many game companies do not, so though I'd check and see

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Kaarnyj

Didn't see anything in the original post about it, but asking as I'm unsure...Do you allow Canadians into your testing program? Many game companies do not, so though I'd check and see

Thanks!

I think you just need to have an active US subscription.

Originally Posted by Kaarnyj

Didn't see anything in the original post about it, but asking as I'm unsure...Do you allow Canadians into your testing program? Many game companies do not, so though I'd check and see

Thanks!

Living in Canada is not an issue so long as you have an active VIP subscription on one of the U.S. servers.

Originally Posted by Malachi108

So, what exactly is being ******, the name makes it unclear. Is it the next expansion? A new zone? New gameplay being tested? Or do only the participants know this?

The PPP (now PPPP) is not a one-off program. It isn't being opened to test one particular release. Isengard was open from shortly before SoA launch until just before SoM and tested almost everything in between. Betas are for expansions (and F2P, being a special case). Isengard/Palantir is for testing everything else. It will probably get first shot at everything up until the Isengard xpac next year.

Would it be possible to set up an auto-responder that acknowledges applications this time around? I had a bit of apprehensiveness when I last applied to Isengard a long time ago because there was no email notification that an application was received.

Originally Posted by Lohi

This is the part I'm worried about. Ie, is this a "please log in during east coast hours" sort of thing so that the devs are still online? Or is it a "please test this feature today and today only"? Is this a case of having to monitor the particular forums carefully and daily (a pain with the new forums)?

Generally when I was on Bullroarer I did things at my own pace. I tried to avoid the masses all going to whatever the fashion was, and instead focused on what I thought was useful for for me and my kin and friends; ie, does the low level content still work, does the new storyline make sense, etc. The weekly focused testing often tended to be askew from what I was doing - I had not interest in doing helegrod that week, and probably I didn't have the skills either; or I had already tested the festival stuff the week before; etc. I could never tell if I was the first player to find an obscure bug or merely the one thousandth.

On the other hand, I'd love the chance to do stuff like comment on some of this stuff before they get to the "too late to change it now" bullroarer stage.

In my experience the QA guys will also get on while at home to do focus testing and not just at work depending on what it is. Other things they will stay at work late to do it.
The focus testing was also broken up, they had a weekly list of things to test but they also scheduled test events, major instances and raids were scheduled so that they could have groups set up and multiple QA members watching progress and taking notes on what happened and how, and if it coincided with what they expected or wanted the players to do.

Also, being the first or thousandth person to put in a report on a bug doesn't matter. The other 999 people might have missed a detail on what they were doing to cause it that you didn't and that detail might be the key detail for finding the problem.
They prefer to get 1000 reports on the same bug so they can sort by severity of issue and frequency. If 3/1000 people report the bug, but 1000/1000 people actually experience the bug then they don't know the true scale of the problem.

Hats off to you folks at Turbine. I love seeing programs like this.

Had I more of an inkling of how this game works, I'd consider applying, but I fear that I'd ultimately be taking a spot from someone who would be able to provide more useful feedback. I still, far too often, find myself having to look up how anything works in this game (new since f2p here, just on the off chance that wasn't clear. hehe)

Anyway, once again, kudos!

Originally Posted by Dpsburgping

It seems like a strange coincidence that this new program has the exact same name as one of the most popular lua plugins, maybe even a little confusing. I seen this post and immediately thought Turbine was doing something with the plugin.

In order to avoid confusion, Palantir will now be known as Isengard. lol

(yes, that is a joke )

Originally Posted by Arbalister

Laying out specific tasks, doing any sort of scheduling etc, is something that's not going to happen in any beta program anywhere (in the US) probably. Thank the AoL and EQ "Volunteer" lawsuits for that. btw...Anyone know if either has ever been resolved?

My ex-wife said they settled the AOL Community Leader lawsuit a couple of months ago, and she got about $500. She was expecting a couple thousand. I expect the truth lies somewhere in between. :-) I can't find any specific amounts online.

Originally Posted by TheNefarious

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

Good to hear, I like knowing what needs to be tested.
I have to say, the F2P testing was good, and the stress testing seemed to get better with each test. The Moors test we did started out slow, with lots of lag, but by the end, I was almost playable. :-) I got a few good hits on some of the dev creeps also.

Originally Posted by delphinius81

When I first saw it, I thought you were referring to Digital_Utopia's Palantir plug-in. I got very confused why Turbine would be hosting a separate program to preview his already released Lua script.

Originally Posted by Dpsburgping

It seems like a strange coincidence that this new program has the exact same name as one of the most popular lua plugins, maybe even a little confusing. I seen this post and immediately thought Turbine was doing something with the plugin.

I got here by the dev tracker, and my first thought was that Digital_Utopia was doing some sort of testing on his plug-in and and one of the devs commented on it. As much as I enjoy his plug-in, this announcement is also great.

Originally Posted by Lohi

This is the part I'm worried about. Ie, is this a "please log in during east coast hours" sort of thing so that the devs are still online? Or is it a "please test this feature today and today only"? Is this a case of having to monitor the particular forums carefully and daily (a pain with the new forums)?

Generally when I was on Bullroarer I did things at my own pace. I tried to avoid the masses all going to whatever the fashion was, and instead focused on what I thought was useful for for me and my kin and friends; ie, does the low level content still work, does the new storyline make sense, etc. The weekly focused testing often tended to be askew from what I was doing - I had not interest in doing helegrod that week, and probably I didn't have the skills either; or I had already tested the festival stuff the week before; etc. I could never tell if I was the first player to find an obscure bug or merely the one thousandth.

On the other hand, I'd love the chance to do stuff like comment on some of this stuff before they get to the "too late to change it now" bullroarer stage.

I expect a little bit of both, something for everyone. There will probably be some content that will be up for a little while for testing and some that needs a certain kind of testing. I remember Orion's blog about working on the GA instances. He made comments that he made a few changes, uploaded it for testers to run through, got feedback, made a few more changes, let QA at it...rinse repeat. He didn't mention the Private Preview Program specifically, but I would not be surprised if it was involved at some point.

Originally Posted by swattz101

My ex-wife said they settled the AOL Community Leader lawsuit a couple of months ago, and she got about $500. She was expecting a couple thousand. I expect the truth lies somewhere in between. :-) I can't find any specific amounts online.

Wow, took almost 12 years. I found a bit of info - apparently there were 2400 people registered to the class action, and AoL agreed to settle for $15 million - about $6250 per claimant. Of course, that's assuming they got the whole thing, I'd bet more then half went to lawyers and legal fees.

Still, I'm surprised that AoL chose to settle. The definition of "employment" that the claimants used was only a smidge broad. Well, actually, it was stretched beyond belief...

Wonder what the story with the EQ version is.

Edit: Correcting myself...it was against Origins...which is UO, not EQ. :-p

Originally Posted by Dpsburgping

It seems like a strange coincidence that this new program has the exact same name as one of the most popular lua plugins, maybe even a little confusing. I seen this post and immediately thought Turbine was doing something with the plugin.

i'm sure Turbine had chosen this name well before the Lua plugin was created

From time to time during past betas, they would ask for focused feedback on specific items, instances, etc, but most of the beta testing in the past has centered around "Play as you normally would on the live servers" and report bugs as you ran across them.

I am sure things are a bit different on Palantir, though, as I am guessing that everything moves along at a faster pace.

From what I've "heard" the devs take a much more active role in this preview program. They actually just into characters and play the game/do instances with players and get their feedback live, in addition to looking for bugs and such at the same time.

Looking forward to having the billing sorted out so that EU players can join, as well as F2P/Premium players. Quite a few of the exceptional testers in the most recent F2P testing were from Europe, or Premium/F2P players. Glad that the program is up and running at the very least! *looks ominously into an orb*

Crell, Vanguard, Riddermark
-F2P

I hope that they get get our subscribers from Codemasters in here, but hopefully they make Palantir only for VIP lifetime/subscribers. After-all its (supposed to be) a mature environment for previewing new content before it's released to the public. In my opinion Free and Premium players shouldn't get the privilege of seeing new content before it's ready/released to VIP players NOT in the Palantir Private Preview Program. You have to remember that this isn't like Bullroarer, not everyone who applies to Palantir will get accepted if it's anything like the Isengard Private Preview Program.

Plus, if Free and Premium players are allowed in over VIP players there's going to be complaints and such from people paying to play the game who applied but didn't get in... I suppose if VIP players who apply get considered before Free and Premium players that might put some of them at ease. There's also going to be that group of people that don't want all the "garbage" that a free player-base tends to bring to a server.

That's just my opinion on it. I wouldn't be one to complain if Free and Premium players were allowed in, or even if they were allowed in with the same consideration as VIPs.

Question:
What is the purpose in the NDA being so strict such that you are not even allowed to tell anyone that you do this? It is still your responsibility to keep what you see and do on the server to yourself. I am curious because I don't see this as much in other MMO's NDA's.

Originally Posted by msbunglexx

Question:
What is the purpose in the NDA being so strict such that you are not even allowed to tell anyone that you do this? It is still your responsibility to keep what you see and do on the server to yourself. I am curious because I don't see this as much in other MMO's NDA's.

Let's just say that they don't want you being bribed/annoyed/griefed to the point that you give in and spill the beans.

Secondly, tons of things actually change in the testing process, so if you ("you" being general) do give in and say something, there is bound to be pitchforks by at least one group, even if there is no guarantee that this change is going live. In the past, there have been leaks on things that have not been fully tested out and just complete craziness on these forums. They want to prevent that as much as possible, I imagine.

Certainly, as mentioned, they cannot know if you tell your spouse or something that you are in the program, but in the end just use your best judgment.

I've read just the developer posts on the thread and the original post, so please forgive me if it's already been answered, but I'm asking because maybe others are thinking the same thing.

Is "Palantir" the name of a new game Turbine is working on? I'm really unclear as to just what this program is or is for.

Originally Posted by Velea

I've read just the developer posts on the thread and the original post, so please forgive me if it's already been answered, but I'm asking because maybe others are thinking the same thing.

Is "Palantir" the name of a new game Turbine is working on? I'm really unclear as to just what this program is or is for.

Palantir is just the name of the program. Its basically the closed test server. All the new stuff they are making for LOTRO goes on there and is tested before either going on Bullroarer for open beta or straight onto the Live servers.

Originally Posted by cipher_nemo

Hopefully Turbine has changed the way it's doing betas/tests. In the past my beta experience was soured by the way Turbine handled it. Perhaps they're starting with a new slate for applications since they realize past testers will already be put off after their past experiences?

For example, I was part of the Mines of Moria beta -- NDA long since expired -- in 2008. There was no direction for the testers, little communication from QA or devs during the test, and many of our bugs were never addressed/fixed before Moria's launch any ways (even the small, easy fixes).

Then I was part of a stress test in Spring of 2009 in which we sat around staring at a character unable to move anywhere and unable to participate in what was supposed to be part of the fun due to the enormous server lag (it was a less than ideal stress test). When the dev-lead events started, no one could really do anything. I'm sure the devs got some useful information as a result of that stress-test, but they never guessed the servers would be so burdened that they'd be unable to do the testing events.

Both of these past experiences left me feeling like the testing was either mismanaged and that our feedback and bugs didn't make any difference at all. I understand these are supposed to be tests and things happen, but twice in a row of bad experiences means I'll pass on any volunteer testing for Turbine products.

Don't get me wrong: I love LOTRO and love what Turbine has done with it so far. It's just the beta testing and stress testing I felt was managed/planned poorly. Hopefully that has changed since then?

This is an excellent post, cipher_nemo, it gives players a really excellent look into what they need to consider before applying to any program.

I don't see their process as being mismanaged at all. I see it as the difference between being an "internal" tester and an "external" one. We players are "external" testers. The devs know what their priorities are, and they have too much to do to concern themselves with holding the hands of testers. They let us know what they want tested, the testing is done, the reports are filed, and the tester base often is not informed of what, if any, changes are being made, what if any, things are being corrected, and/or when we'll see the results. Those are all internal decisions. Sometimes they can and do talk about what their plans are, sometimes they don't, and there are myriads of reasons why. If you're someone who needs that kind of feedback, you'll want to take a good hard look at whether testing in this environment is something you want to pursue. It can be frustrating "working in the dark" so to speak, but often (not always) that's the task. It can also be very rewarding, when you see changes made that you had an influence on.

In other words, the devs and QA make the best use of the time they have, and to expect them to keep the player-testers fully informed is asking something of them that they don't always have the luxury to do. So consider carefully if you can be happy testing in that kind of environment.

As a former participant in Turbine Betas, I disagree with what cipher_nemo has posted above. I thought the interaction with the Devs was very good.

Here's a Q for the Staff: I am still stuck with an unintended log-in/account situation on the forums. I am logging-in via an SoA Beta account and I cannot log-in with my current game account info as intended. Most players with this situation seem to have had it remedied, but I'm still 'broken'. Is this going to cause a problem when reviewing post history as part of the Palantir application process? I am hoping that my years of forum interactions will be considered and not just my interactions since the new forum luanched.

Aux:

I agree on both points. I have always found that QA was quite responsive in closed betas. On the other hand, the job is not to test, not have our hands held.

Like you, I have this beta chat handle...my permanent one, like yours, is still missing

Originally Posted by Xero852

I hope that they get get our subscribers from Codemasters in here, but hopefully they make Palantir only for VIP lifetime/subscribers. After-all its (supposed to be) a mature environment for previewing new content before it's released to the public. In my opinion Free and Premium players shouldn't get the privilege of seeing new content before it's ready/released to VIP players NOT in the Palantir Private Preview Program. You have to remember that this isn't like Bullroarer, not everyone who applies to Palantir will get accepted if it's anything like the Isengard Private Preview Program.

Plus, if Free and Premium players are allowed in over VIP players there's going to be complaints and such from people paying to play the game who applied but didn't get in... I suppose if VIP players who apply get considered before Free and Premium players that might put some of them at ease. There's also going to be that group of people that don't want all the "garbage" that a free player-base tends to bring to a server.

That's just my opinion on it. I wouldn't be one to complain if Free and Premium players were allowed in, or even if they were allowed in with the same consideration as VIPs.

this is not a preview. its a test server. you are not 'seeing new content before it's released to the public', you are testing, finding bugs and providing feedback.

Originally Posted by newwwwb

this is not a preview. its a test server. you are not 'seeing new content before it's released to the public', you are testing, finding bugs and providing feedback.

You may want to check the thread title there buddy. "Private Preview Program". Seeing new content before it is released to the public is a benefit for providing testing manpower and opinions to the QA and dev team. They are "previewing" their new content to us and asking for opinions and feedback, that's a big part of testing my friend!

Originally Posted by auximenes77

As a former participant in Turbine Betas, I disagree with what cipher_nemo has posted above. I thought the interaction with the Devs was very good.

Here's a Q for the Staff: I am still stuck with an unintended log-in/account situation on the forums. I am logging-in via an SoA Beta account and I cannot log-in with my current game account info as intended. Most players with this situation seem to have had it remedied, but I'm still 'broken'. Is this going to cause a problem when reviewing post history as part of the Palantir application process? I am hoping that my years of forum interactions will be considered and not just my interactions since the new forum luanched.

Originally Posted by Aolain

Aux:

I agree on both points. I have always found that QA was quite responsive in closed betas. On the other hand, the job is not to test, not have our hands held.

Like you, I have this beta chat handle...my permanent one, like yours, is still missing

Khafar posted something about this in another thread, second post. See if that helps you out- I am not sure if it's the same problem or not.

so how long until we're notified of being accepted or denied to the preview program?

Witch:

No idea how long it will take for us to get word. A month? Less? More? If selected we will find out when we find out.

Just a word about Turbine betas. It is a beta...things will be broken...things will not work right...there will be stress tests and things will freeze up.

This is normal and expected. By breaking things, by crashing the server, by just being there in some cases, we are doing our jobs as beta testers (if any of us become beta testers, that is)--and by filing bugs when one is found.

Also.....one last word...what happens in beta stays in beta...folks need to keep their traps shut.
You will not be paid for beta...you will not get snazzy stuff for being in beta....

And no, you cannot transfer your beta character to live....nothing you get in beta can be taken to live...nothing,,,nothing at all..............nothing!

8)


Oh! And nothing anyone gets in beta can be brought to the live servers!

If you aren't accepted it's likely that you won't receive any notification by email. The only way to tell is if one of the Palantir team mention something in the thread here saying that invites have gone out.

I love bug finding (software coder myself) but I no longer have the luxury of as much free time as I used to have. Though I do usually have a couple of good hours in the morning I wonder if thats good for them a couple of evening hours EST.

I'll most likely end up not apping just because I can't commit to the time requirements, but best of luck to those that get in don't ruin my game

Man, I've applied to alot of beta programs like this in different games, unfortuantly I never got in any of them (Although I did have the privelage of being in the F2P beta)

If I do get in the PPP...P I think I'll be estatic, I love testing any sort of new content, although this beta program seems like an uber version of Bullroarer. Can anyone from Isenguard confirm this?

Originally Posted by orcfeller

If I do get in the PPP...P I think I'll be estatic, I love testing any sort of new content, although this beta program seems like an uber version of Bullroarer. Can anyone from Isenguard confirm this?

Probably not, considering that unless something drastic happened, their NDAs are still classified as in-effect.

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

Probably not, considering that unless something drastic happened, their NDAs are still classified as in-effect.

ROFL, that's almost word for word what *this* post was going to say. :-)

Originally Posted by newwwwb

this is not a preview. its a test server. you are not 'seeing new content before it's released to the public', you are testing, finding bugs and providing feedback.

Originally Posted by Xero852

You may want to check the thread title there buddy. "Private Preview Program". Seeing new content before it is released to the public is a benefit for providing testing manpower and opinions to the QA and dev team. They are "previewing" their new content to us and asking for opinions and feedback, that's a big part of testing my friend!

This is actually an argument of semantics, here in Turbineland.

Private Preview is equivalent to test in the eyes of Turbine. As folks have mentioned earlier in this thread, there were some, shall we say, taboos about using the word test for programs such as these, so we called it preview.

Your role in this program will be exactly the same as a Beta Tester. It just doesn't have a definitive end, as Palantir will roll into the next development cycle instead of closing down when one goes live as a beta program does.

Applied yesterday. It would be great to help continued development of one the best mmo's on the market.

Curtis

I think it'd be fun to help test the new Isengard area. Throw my helm in the ring!...