Thread: The Palantir Private Preview Program

The Palantir Private Preview Program is currently offline.

Please keep an eye on these forums for when the program will be accepting applications again!

New information coming soon.

New FAQ coming soon.

are you using the applications from the last time you asked for applications for the program? or do I need to apply again.

OOooOOOoooh, a snazzy new name. (That will definitely save the confusion with the point that we're sposed to be heading to Isengard in game.)

I'm assuming we may need to fill out a new application, it's been a long while. Things, account status, ambitions, etc may have changed since last. I'm betting K used all the previous applications to line the hamster cages.

*eagerly awaiting the rest of the post with all the detail goods.*

Originally Posted by lf2536

are you using the applications from the last time you asked for applications for the program? or do I need to apply again.

Frequently Asked Questions
Q: I applied to Isengard earlier this year. Do I have to reapply for Palantir?
A: Yes, you do. All the applications we received earlier this year have been purged. We are starting from scratch!
NOTE: If you are just resending your earlier application, please note the email address has changed to LOTROPreview@turbine.com

Q: I was on Isengard before. Do I have to apply?
A: Yes, you do. We are starting from scratch, so no pre-invites to the program will be issued. If you are interested in the program you need to apply to be considered.

I may not have a prolific posting history on the live forums, but I did where it counted, in Moria Beta. I will be applying.

Thank you.

I've been in a number of NDA test programs for various games over the years, and I'd encourage people with free time and an enjoyment of beta-type environments to participate! It's really the only place where your feedback and testing efforts can make a significant difference in the short term, and more developers are more likely to interact with the players there due to the urgent needs of their current job tasks and due to the fact that obnoxious/uncivil interaction can be punished with expulsion. More pleasant, more constructive, and more on point: win.

However, I'd also caution people to pay attention to what Kehleyr said up above. Game developers have tight testing windows, and if you're quite busy in real life much of the time, you simply might not be able to help when they need it. This is frustrating for you, and robs them of much-needed testing and feedback at critical junctures. Because of this, I won't be applying - I'll have to give my feedback as best I'm able after new content/features are released.

Khafar

Another FAQ is "When will I know?" And "Will I know if I don't get accepted?" As I asked this with a handful of others when Kehleyr posted for Isengard Preview Applications a while back.

Mr. Kehleyr?

As soon as you answer this, I highly suggest you put it in your FAQs :P

Originally Posted by Khafar

I've been in a number of NDA test programs for various games over the years, and I'd encourage people with free time and an enjoyment of beta-type environments to participate! It's really the only place where your feedback and testing efforts can make a significant difference in the short term, and more developers are more likely to interact with the players there due to the urgent needs of their current job tasks and due to the fact that obnoxious/uncivil interaction can be punished with expulsion. More pleasant, more constructive, and more on point: win.

However, I'd also caution people to pay attention to what Kehleyr said up above. Game developers have tight testing windows, and if you're quite busy in real life much of the time, you simply might not be able to help when they need it. This is frustrating for you, and robs them of much-needed testing and feedback at critical junctures. Because of this, I won't be applying - I'll have to give my feedback as best I'm able after new content/features are released.

Khafar

This ^ and 1 more point...

First off, if you like to be surprised, or like content to be all fresh and new...you don't want to be in the test - it can detract from your enjoyment of the Live game, because you'll be replaying content. Second, things change in these tests. Something you really like might get cut, or changed before it hits the game. It causes the "this was better before..." feeling in Live. What I mean is, if you didn't see it in Beta, the change, addition, whatever that makes it to Live would be taken at face value. If seeing something change that you like might detract from your Live gaming...think twice. :-)

Originally Posted by Kehleyr

Q: Can players with only Codemasters accounts apply even though they cannot post on these forums?
A: Unfortunately we are not open to Codemasters players at this time.

Can I ask why you aren't taking applications from Codemasters players? You used to accept applications from them before when it was the Isengard Private Preview program, but why not now? I can sort of see the reasoning for not accepting Free or Premium players, but why not take players from Codemasters who are also VIPs?

Originally Posted by Amphoras

Can I ask why you aren't taking applications from Codemasters players? You used to accept applications from them before when it was the Isengard Private Preview program, but why not now? I can sort of see the reasoning for not accepting Free or Premium players, but why not take players from Codemasters who are also VIPs?

My guess would be that Codemaster's does not at this time have the f2p system in play for one.

Originally Posted by fifenator09

Ms. Kehleyr?

FTFY.

Sapience is not Patience, and Kehleyr is not a He.

Originally Posted by Kehleyr

Q: Can players with only Codemasters accounts apply even though they cannot post on these forums?
A: Unfortunately we are not open to Codemasters players at this time.

Yay! Codemaster players are still getting shafted from all directions

Originally Posted by Amphoras

Can I ask why you aren't taking applications from Codemasters players? You used to accept applications from them before when it was the Isengard Private Preview program, but why not now? I can sort of see the reasoning for not accepting Free or Premium players, but why not take players from Codemasters who are also VIPs?

This is actually for the same reason we are limiting it to US VIP's only - with the new billing system throwing Codemasters at it is not a variable we are ready to deal with at this time.

The old Isengard billing system was completely manual - accounts were made and maintained by hand. The new system has everything automated.

If we can get the billing systems to work with Codemasters we will discuss opening apps to our overseas folks, but we simply can't do it right now.

Hopefully Turbine has changed the way it's doing betas/tests. In the past my beta experience was soured by the way Turbine handled it. Perhaps they're starting with a new slate for applications since they realize past testers will already be put off after their past experiences?

For example, I was part of the Mines of Moria beta -- NDA long since expired -- in 2008. There was no direction for the testers, little communication from QA or devs during the test, and many of our bugs were never addressed/fixed before Moria's launch any ways (even the small, easy fixes).

Then I was part of a stress test in Spring of 2009 in which we sat around staring at a character unable to move anywhere and unable to participate in what was supposed to be part of the fun due to the enormous server lag (it was a less than ideal stress test). When the dev-lead events started, no one could really do anything. I'm sure the devs got some useful information as a result of that stress-test, but they never guessed the servers would be so burdened that they'd be unable to do the testing events.

Both of these past experiences left me feeling like the testing was either mismanaged and that our feedback and bugs didn't make any difference at all. I understand these are supposed to be tests and things happen, but twice in a row of bad experiences means I'll pass on any volunteer testing for Turbine products.

Don't get me wrong: I love LOTRO and love what Turbine has done with it so far. It's just the beta testing and stress testing I felt was managed/planned poorly. Hopefully that has changed since then?

Originally Posted by cipher_nemo

Hopefully Turbine has changed the way it's doing betas/tests. In the past my beta experience was soured by the way Turbine handled it. Perhaps they're starting with a new slate for applications since they realize past testers will already be put off after their past experiences?

For example, I was part of the Mines of Moria beta -- NDA long since expired -- in 2008. There was no direction for the testers, little communication from QA or devs during the test, and many of our bugs were never addressed/fixed before Moria's launch any ways (even the small, easy fixes).

Then I was part of a stress test in Spring of 2009 in which we sat around staring at a character unable to move anywhere and unable to participate in what was supposed to be part of the fun due to the enormous server lag (it was a less than ideal stress test). When the dev-lead events started, no one could really do anything. I'm sure the devs got some useful information as a result of that stress-test, but they never guessed the servers would be so burdened that they'd be unable to do the testing events.

Both of these past experiences left me feeling like the testing was either mismanaged and that our feedback and bugs didn't make any difference at all. I understand these are supposed to be tests and things happen, but twice in a row of bad experiences means I'll pass on any volunteer testing for Turbine products.

Don't get me wrong: I love LOTRO and love what Turbine has done with it so far. It's just the beta testing and stress testing I felt was managed/planned poorly. Hopefully that has changed since then?

Interesting, because my experience in the recently finished beta was different than what you describe. There was a dedicated forum with things to test each week and provide feedback on. The devs were also very engaged with us and were willing to make changes based on user feedback.

Originally Posted by Wibs

Yay! Codemaster players are still getting shafted from all directions

As the great David Byrne said "Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.."

Originally Posted by cicdle

Interesting, because my experience in the recently finished beta was different than what you describe. There was a dedicated forum with things to test each week and provide feedback on. The devs were also very engaged with us and were willing to make changes based on user feedback.

Good to hear. We also had private forums for beta testers back with Mines of Moria beta, but the devs very rarely communicated there. I think they recruited way too many people for it instead of keeping the beta community small and meaningful. That also turned me off from the experience.

Except for Cryptic's Star Trek Online beta (which was also very poor), every other beta I've been in for MMOs were much more positive and rewarding experiences. Granted, the point of these beta tests is to give feedback, report bugs, and help refine the final product for the betterment of LOTRO as a whole, from the community to the developer. But how these tests are handled makes a huge difference with tester loyalty and the fanbase. My experiences were negative in the past, so I'm glad you had a much better one recently.

Originally Posted by Thando

As the great David Byrne said "Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.."

This is why I only play on US servers for US developers (other than the fact that I'm in the US). You guys still don't have F2P yet, do you? Any ETA on that for Europe?

But don't feel too bad, as US players get shafted when the developer is in a country from Europe or the UK. That happened with Funcom and Age of Conan. I still enjoyed AoC a lot, even if we didn't get the same level of communication and updates as the European players.

Cool new name!!

Originally Posted by cipher_nemo

Hopefully Turbine has changed the way it's doing betas/tests. In the past my beta experience was soured by the way Turbine handled it. Perhaps they're starting with a new slate for applications since they realize past testers will already be put off after their past experiences?

For example, I was part of the Mines of Moria beta -- NDA long since expired -- in 2008. There was no direction for the testers, little communication from QA or devs during the test, and many of our bugs were never addressed/fixed before Moria's launch any ways (even the small, easy fixes).

Then I was part of a stress test in Spring of 2009 in which we sat around staring at a character unable to move anywhere and unable to participate in what was supposed to be part of the fun due to the enormous server lag (it was a less than ideal stress test). When the dev-lead events started, no one could really do anything. I'm sure the devs got some useful information as a result of that stress-test, but they never guessed the servers would be so burdened that they'd be unable to do the testing events.

Both of these past experiences left me feeling like the testing was either mismanaged and that our feedback and bugs didn't make any difference at all. I understand these are supposed to be tests and things happen, but twice in a row of bad experiences means I'll pass on any volunteer testing for Turbine products.

Don't get me wrong: I love LOTRO and love what Turbine has done with it so far. It's just the beta testing and stress testing I felt was managed/planned poorly. Hopefully that has changed since then?

The beta for both Mirkwood and F2P were much different. Each week QA would post things to focus on - be it new instances/areas, tracking how gameplay changes affected old content, etc. The testing process has come a long way since the SoA and MoM beta days. So if you are basing your opinion on Turbine testing to MoM/Bullroarer-Stress tests alone, you should reconsider applying if you are interested in helping out. Testing and feedback requests have become a lot more focused.

Originally Posted by cipher_nemo

For example, I was part of the Mines of Moria beta -- NDA long since expired -- in 2008. There was no direction for the testers,

Laying out specific tasks, doing any sort of scheduling etc, is something that's not going to happen in any beta program anywhere (in the US) probably. Thank the AoL and EQ "Volunteer" lawsuits for that. btw...Anyone know if either has ever been resolved?

little communication from QA or devs during the test, and many of our bugs were never addressed/fixed before Moria's launch any ways (even the small, easy fixes).

I've been in more then a few Turbine tests...little communication has never been an issue - there's usually lots of activity in the forums, and direct access to the devs in game.

Due to scheduling and prioritizing, 90% of bugs reported in the final month of a beta won't be in time for a fix to go in pre-release. Code freezes are a fact of development. At some point they *have* to say "nothing game breaking, we freeze here for launch" and fix the bugs in a later update. Especially for one-off things like a boxed expansion - they have deadlines to meet. For other things, like, say, the Skirmish system...or other unannounced features, that cycle is different, and there's more time to react to bugs.

Then I was part of a stress test in Spring of 2009 in which we sat around staring at a character unable to move anywhere and unable to participate in what was supposed to be part of the fun due to the enormous server lag (it was a less than ideal stress test).

That's a stress test...and honestly, an ideal one at that. I personally feel a great sense of achievement if we bring the servers to their knees.

And that's not just here - every stress test in every MMO I've tested for - like 90% of them - turn out exactly the same. That's sort of the whole point...they *want* to drive the servers beyond capacity, in order to find out what that capacity is. That's why they alway announce contests for the test - to maximize attendance.

Originally Posted by Kehleyr

This is actually for the same reason we are limiting it to US VIP's only - with the new billing system throwing Codemasters at it is not a variable we are ready to deal with at this time.

The old Isengard billing system was completely manual - accounts were made and maintained by hand. The new system has everything automated.

If we can get the billing systems to work with Codemasters we will discuss opening apps to our overseas folks, but we simply can't do it right now.

Although I'm sure it wouldn't be necessarily be easy to make it work, surely there must be some way? How about if you accepted Codemasters VIPs but gave them a Free status US account and enough points to unlock everything on the server? Bullroarer and the live servers have two completely separate point accounts, so presumably you could do the same here. Surely it would be better for testing purposes to have a sample of players from all over your playerbase rather than cutting out half straight away?

Originally Posted by Arbalister

Laying out specific tasks, doing any sort of scheduling etc, is something that's not going to happen in any beta program anywhere (in the US) probably. Thank the AoL and EQ "Volunteer" lawsuits for that.

Really? Interesting how delphinius just contradicted you with what actually happened...

Originally Posted by delphinius81

The beta for both Mirkwood and F2P were much different. Each week QA would post things to focus on - be it new instances/areas, tracking how gameplay changes affected old content, etc. The testing process has come a long way since the SoA and MoM beta days.

Delphinius, thanks, I was basing my experience on older beta/stress tests. As I mentioned in other posts, it's good to hear the public testing process from Turbine has improved.

Originally Posted by Arbalister

That's a stress test...and honestly, an ideal one at that. I personally feel a great sense of achievement if we bring the servers to their knees.

Not when the devs and NetOps didn't plan for this. They planned events for us to put some large-scale group combat load on the servers and such, but things went south before any of that happened. In other words it was someone's fault at Turbine. It wasn't supposed to happen. I can't fault them for unexpected things during a stress test, but I can fault them for poor planning for when something bad happens.

Originally Posted by cipher_nemo

Really? Interesting how delphinius just contradicted you with what actually happened...

Not really - unless you count "focus on X" as direction - but we've always had that.

What I mean is that they have to be purposely "vague" with anything that looks like it might be a company representative managing a test team. That's what killed the Asheron's Call volunteer team. Those lawsuits by former volunteers did almost nothing but illustrate how badly someone can stretch the definition of "employment" to try to hold a company liable for back wages.

Not when the devs and NetOps didn't plan for this. They planned events for us to put some large-scale group combat load on the servers and such, but things went south before any of that happened. In other words it was someone's fault at Turbine. It wasn't supposed to happen. I can't fault them for unexpected things during a stress test, but I can fault them for poor planning for when something bad happens.

It was a stress test. It *was* planned for. It was planned that we'd pooch the server. That's the entire point.

Originally Posted by Arbalister

Not really - unless you count "focus on X" as direction - but we've always had that.

We did not have that for the Mines of Moria beta I tested in 2008, or at least I couldn't find anything like that. It would have helped quite a bit.

Both Khafar and Arbalister offer great advice to potential applicants. Both of those posts are above this one - if you haven't seen them yet, be sure and take a gander.

Good to see this is back Kehleyr. I'm definitely reapplying because I've missed the server.

So, what exactly is being ******, the name makes it unclear. Is it the next expansion? A new zone? New gameplay being tested? Or do only the participants know this?

Originally Posted by Arbalister

Laying out specific tasks, doing any sort of scheduling etc, is something that's not going to happen in any beta program anywhere (in the US) probably.

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

Originally Posted by TheNefarious

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

That's great! I know a lot of people felt unguided in other tests. Frankly, I never expected to see anything like again, after the aforementioned lawsuits. There was, actually, a time when I was on a similar test program where, in order to avoid the conditions the plaintiffs used to "define" employment, we were actually "hired" as independent contractors, for a minimum number of hours, at a fixed, tiny stipend. (I'm being vague because even though the NDA is long since dead, I tend to stick to the letter...) Anyhow...we were free to test for as many hours as we wanted, but doing this allowed the perception that we're contractors, working for ourselves...etc. Most of the people in the program were actually against getting paid for it, and it didn't last too long. And a month later we were all voluteers again. :-p Hehehe.

Originally Posted by cipher_nemo

Hopefully Turbine has changed the way it's doing betas/tests. In the past my beta experience was soured by the way Turbine handled it. Perhaps they're starting with a new slate for applications since they realize past testers will already be put off after their past experiences?

For example, I was part of the Mines of Moria beta -- NDA long since expired -- in 2008. There was no direction for the testers, little communication from QA or devs during the test, and many of our bugs were never addressed/fixed before Moria's launch any ways (even the small, easy fixes).

Then I was part of a stress test in Spring of 2009 in which we sat around staring at a character unable to move anywhere and unable to participate in what was supposed to be part of the fun due to the enormous server lag (it was a less than ideal stress test). When the dev-lead events started, no one could really do anything. I'm sure the devs got some useful information as a result of that stress-test, but they never guessed the servers would be so burdened that they'd be unable to do the testing events.

Both of these past experiences left me feeling like the testing was either mismanaged and that our feedback and bugs didn't make any difference at all. I understand these are supposed to be tests and things happen, but twice in a row of bad experiences means I'll pass on any volunteer testing for Turbine products.

Don't get me wrong: I love LOTRO and love what Turbine has done with it so far. It's just the beta testing and stress testing I felt was managed/planned poorly. Hopefully that has changed since then?

Mines of Moria testing was with out a doubt the funnest most rewarding testing experience i've ever had.

The feedback via forums, ingame, mIrc and even in vent was phenomenal. I started a RK and a Warden when there were only skills available to lv 10. Every single time they updated the classes I started again from scratch with both classes and wrote of 100s of words worth of feedback, balance concerns and bugs in threads I started. Every single update something was addressed, for better or worse. I can look at both classes and point to specific things that were changed based primarily from my feedback.

The quality of feedback you give, with the data to back up your feedback goes a long way in testing.

Originally Posted by Malachi108

So, what exactly is being ******, the name makes it unclear. Is it the next expansion? A new zone? New gameplay being tested? Or do only the participants know this?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here, but I'm going to guess you're curious if the program's name has significance? Not really. It's just a word we liked.

Since we're starting all over with new hardware, a new community, and a new billing process, a new name seemed like a good idea.

Originally Posted by Grampsaz

Mines of Moria testing was with out a doubt the funnest most rewarding testing experience i've ever had.

The feedback via forums, ingame, mIrc and even in vent was phenomenal.

Yeah, I didn't really remember any issues with lack of feedback.

Originally Posted by TheNefarious

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

Having been to all previous programs so far. I gotta say those schedules in F2P were so very nice, Nef. Logging in, just to end up twiddling my thumbs often enough, I never would have imagined putting together a group of 24 people for Helegrod so effeciently. (Having an admin porting them helped a lot too. ) People made themselves available to be there, and I was sorry that we couldn't take them all.
I don't know how many other groups formed that day (or on other Hele-testing days), but I was pleased with the amount of folks who came and asked if there was room for them in the Helegrod testing that I too was able to make myself available for.

Originally Posted by Arbalister

That's great! I know a lot of people felt unguided in other tests. Frankly, I never expected to see anything like again, after the aforementioned lawsuits. There was, actually, a time when I was on a similar test program where, in order to avoid the conditions the plaintiffs used to "define" employment, we were actually "hired" as independent contractors, for a minimum number of hours, at a fixed, tiny stipend. (I'm being vague because even though the NDA is long since dead, I tend to stick to the letter...) Anyhow...we were free to test for as many hours as we wanted, but doing this allowed the perception that we're contractors, working for ourselves...etc. Most of the people in the program were actually against getting paid for it, and it didn't last too long. And a month later we were all voluteers again. :-p Hehehe.

The agreements you "sign" when volunteering for beta programs these days have since changed. You'll notice that they specifically state that no compensation will be provided and since it is voluntary, that you are under no obligation to test for some minimum number of hours each week. The weekly foci are for guidance purposes, although I've heard of QA teams from various MMOs observing players as they interacted with content to be tested. But even in those cases, there was never a requirement to test at that time. If you wanted to start a group at some non-standard time to test the same content, you were always able and encouraged to.

Originally Posted by Kehleyr

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here, but I'm going to guess you're curious if the program's name has significance? Not really. It's just a word we liked.

Since we're starting all over with new hardware, a new community, and a new billing process, a new name seemed like a good idea.

When I first saw it, I thought you were referring to Digital_Utopia's Palantir plug-in. I got very confused why Turbine would be hosting a separate program to preview his already released Lua script.

Originally Posted by Grampsaz

Mines of Moria testing was with out a doubt the funnest most rewarding testing experience i've ever had.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I had a much different experience.

Originally Posted by TheNefarious

Originally Posted by Arbalister

Laying out specific tasks, doing any sort of scheduling etc, is something that's not going to happen in any beta program anywhere (in the US) probably.

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

Thanks! I'm glad that is changing. I will still pass on applying for this testing round, but it's good to know it has improved.

Glad to hear this is back. If there's anything extra I can do to get in, (read: bake cookies and pie) let me know.

As to everyone with questions about testing schedules and directions as to what and where to test, having participated in all the previous betas, I can strongly say that the recent F2P beta was the best one yet. The blue-names did a fantastic job letting us know what they needed, and the forums were very very busy with feedback and suggestions. If Palantir is anything like that, and Nef says it will be, you should be very excited to apply and even more anxious to actually test it out!