Thread: Hunters 2nd Legendary Weapon

Why, oh why do we have a weapon as second legendary item? Who had this "brilliant" idea to do so? The more I think about it and the more weapons I identify to find a useful one, the more I wonder. As for now, the only legacies I look for on the melee weapon are those that don't concern melee. Needful Haste, Runspeed, Precision, Max. Targets for AoE and Inconspicuous CD. The rest is kind of useless (a 20% chance for a bleed on one skill at max?!? What were you thinking?). How about a legendary quiver with legacies for attack speed, general induction shortening or HS induction shortening, bonus focus points? Something that actually matters?

Hmm that would have been a nice idea I think.. It would add a nice flow, @lvl 40 use the tome of the wind rider till you get your LIs.. It would be hot to have Túrvegil x2 and not loose out on the second LI

Well, I know I'm not the first one with this idea, I've seen it mentioned several times before. But I felt it was necessary to cry it out loud once again. Maybe someone will finally listen.

I think there are going to be changes to the LI system so I'm just not going to worry about it too much until after the changes happen. It was a really unique new system that they took a chance on and it needs some wrinkles ironed out, but I'm still glad they took the chance with it. Weapons that lvl up with you is a really cool idea. And I really think they are going to improve it.

Originally Posted by RedDwarf

I think there are going to be changes to the LI system so I'm just not going to worry about it too much until after the changes happen. It was a really unique new system that they took a chance on and it needs some wrinkles ironed out, but I'm still glad they took the chance with it. Weapons that lvl up with you is a really cool idea. And I really think they are going to improve it.

Actually they don't level up with you. If you get another level, especially as a hunter, you probably need/want a new one.

The upside of a class slot LI? You can finally use title scrolls on your class item. The upside of a weapon LI? You don't lose -12% Power Cost tomes because your class LI uses the slot. I'm pretty sure a class slot LI wouldn't be awesome enough for me to enjoy spending 12% more Power on every single skill.

Be careful what you wish for people...you might get it.

Originally Posted by Nelavor

Actually they don't level up with you. If you get another level, especially as a hunter, you probably need/want a new one.

QFT. How does it level with you when you can acquire a newer, better one at 53, 55, 57, 59, 60, 61...65? We're constantly swapping weapons for higher level ones. The only time this applies is when you hit 65, but you're already capped so it's not truly leveling with you

I'm really hoping for a major overhaul sooner rather than later. I, along with several others I've spoken to, are beyond frustrated with this system.

Originally Posted by NameAlreadyTaken

The upside of a class slot LI? You can finally use title scrolls on your class item. The upside of a weapon LI? You don't lose -12% Power Cost tomes because your class LI uses the slot. I'm pretty sure a class slot LI wouldn't be awesome enough for me to enjoy spending 12% more Power on every single skill.

Be careful what you wish for people...you might get it.

Well, how about that: on 2. Age Items you get head stats, how about a a head stat that reduces power cost... Or how about that? Instead of tactical rating or healing rating on the class item, how about a power cost reduce rating...

Originally Posted by Nelavor

Well, how about that: on 2. Age Items you get head stats, how about a a head stat that reduces power cost... Or how about that? Instead of tactical rating or healing rating on the class item, how about a power cost reduce rating...

2nd Age -Power Cost line bonus: Then everyone that's not using a 2nd Age is hosed. Those are also ranges, and since I doubt the range would go from -12% to -20% you'll wind up with some 2nd Ages giving a small power savings and some giving a large. Rolling the dice constantly to get not only the right legacies but the right legacies plus the best -Power Cost line bonus would be hell.

'Built in' -Power Cost legacy: That would work, assuming Turbine is generous enough to build it that way. Unfortunately that would also mean you have to spend 230 points (the cost to cap the built in 'DPS' legacy) that you don't have to spend today. That's two less capped legacies (give or take) to reclaim your lost -12% power costs from a Tome.

They are both fine ideas, and they've been discussed before (darn forum purges), but both have a down side. A melee LI for a class item isn't really as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

The best solution, at least to me, two fold:

1. Tweak the Hunter melee LI legacy pool. All the melee damage oriented legacies are pretty pointless. Change then to have a point. More Focus returned from Blindside? Cool down on Dazing Blow? Blindside cool down? These are all better than +Melee Critical Chance and the like.
2. Better tomes. -Power Cost and +Ranged Defense, -Power Cost and +Tactical Defense, -Power Cost and -Induction%, -Power Cost and Armor Penetration, -Power Cost and -Avoidance all sounds nice. Make single shot scholar ones that are as awesome as crit one shot RK chisels and no one will want to replace them with a LI.

Originally Posted by Nelavor

Actually they don't level up with you. If you get another level, especially as a hunter, you probably need/want a new one.

Yeah that's one of the wrinkles I was talking about. lol The original idea was to have items that lvl with you, if I remember correctly, and I'm pretty sure they're going to overhaul it and hopefully it will become more like the original idea. And maybe I'll get a pony this christmas. Who knows, it could happen.

Originally Posted by NameAlreadyTaken

The upside of a class slot LI? You can finally use title scrolls on your class item. The upside of a weapon LI? You don't lose -12% Power Cost tomes because your class LI uses the slot. I'm pretty sure a class slot LI wouldn't be awesome enough for me to enjoy spending 12% more Power on every single skill.

Be careful what you wish for people...you might get it.

What's to stop them from making power cost an inherent on a class item to replace the tomes? Burgs get incoming healing on their bags, Guards get shield use on their belt (not to mention the aggro modifiers on 1st and 2nd ages), i have no first hand knowledge regarding the other classes, but i would bet they get something like that as well. another bonus of a class slot LI, no more wasting points on dps when most other classes don't have to (warden's excepted).
it could be argued that having to put points into the incoming healing or shield use is the same as putting points into the dps of our weapon, but lets just remember, incoming healing and shield use were things added AFTER MoM, so saying it's the same isn't really true since they were a bonus addition that aren't something you HAVE to put points into. how many of you want your main hand weapon severly gimped just because you don't have enough points to put into the legacies AND the weapon's dps? it's true that normally we shouldn't be using our melee weapon that much, but i'd rather be doing as much dps as possible if i do have to use them and that shouldn't require me to gimp my other legacies for that purpose.

*this will teach me to scroll further down before replying to a post...it seems this was already addressed. my apologies if it seemed like i was just piling on.*

No worries. I will touch on the concept of leveling the DPS legacy on your melee weapon though as it relates to 'doing as much DPS as possible'. Yeah, I'm that bored.

I don't currently have any points in my melee weapon's inherent DPS legacy. Why? Because in a group, where I am concerned about maximizing my DPS, I'm not in melee range. Even if I were the itty bitty increase in melee damage output I'd get from increasing my weapon DPS isn't worth the 230 point sacrifice it would cost. For that price I can cap two other legacies. Even if they are stat legacies I'd rather have that +20/22 to 2 stats than a little more melee DPS. Solo I don't care a bit...melee skills get used for their utility and I work to stay out of melee range (or to gain distance after being in it). That means my LI is built to maximize my group performance, so no points in to DPS.

If I PvP'd a lot in small groups/solo that might change. I want all the damage I can get there, and I will constantly be in melee range, and I don't care about things like Beneath Notice CD or S:P Crit Mag. That means I have some points to spare again so it's worth leveling the DPS. Of course if I PvP'd a lot I'd have a LI just for PvP so I wouldn't really have to make any sacrifices for grouping.

Most important of all though is this: If the LI was changed to a class slot item what would you put in your main hand? Would you put something like Mirist to maximize your melee damage or would you use something for stat buffs irregardless of the DPS, like you do off-hand? If you would go for stats over DPS then why level the DPS on your LI today?

I completely agree with your points and tbh, i've been in the moors so much lately that's where my frame of mind was when i posted. that said, i have a kind of an "all around" 3rd age melee with prec crit mult, AR heal, AOE targets, NH duration, and a vit legacy. they're all max'd but, like you said, i don't have enough points left over to put into the dps which i feel is a bit of a gimp compared to other classes. do i think maxing the dps on my melee will make a huge difference? not in the least, but it could def mean life or death in the moors when you're really using those melee skills to keep yourself alive.

Wasn't one of the things hunters said in our class thread before the big content patch that our class item capped at the level 40 version while other classes were scaling all the way to 65? Most of that scaling was due to their class item becoming their second legendary while ours (and wardens) are still crafted items scaled for when the level cap was lower. It isn't as if a basic fix would be difficult to implement either. Turbine could throw out some legendary book plans to scholars with the -12% (or higher) power and/ or threat modifiers as a fixed feature, then move the legacies hunters actually use to the books. If they're really feeling generous, in the process they could dump the legacies that mark a weapon as something to be crunched (low cut bleed, extra imp SToE moral regen, etc) entirely.

Pretty much a win for everyone except the handful of "hardcore raiding hunters" trying to game the system by dumping all the points for an LI into the ranged legacies. Something that Turbine will eventually choose to counter, which will end up hurting every hunter. Turbine heads off a potential scuffle with the majority of hunters and sees all the dropped weapons finally being used. Weapon smiths get a market for more than off-hand weapons and a reason to have better weapon plans put into the game. Scholars get to make a legendary item. Hunters gain scaling on our power & threat reductions plus the extra stats from an additional weapon.

Originally Posted by Treerat

Pretty much a win for everyone except the handful of "hardcore raiding hunters" trying to game the system by dumping all the points for an LI into the ranged legacies. Something that Turbine will eventually choose to counter, which will end up hurting every hunter.

Its never a good idea to choose what you like and don't like to have by anticipating what Turbine might do.

About our books: Changing the LI from weapon to the books has another advantage. The diversity of one handed weapons is massivley higher than that of the books we can choose. With weapons you can choose maximize your agility, morale, power or ICPR, or even DPS. With the books you can choose between power cost or threat. And who uses the threatbook? If you want less threat, you dont change the books, you change stance. If I have to guess, I'd say 95% or more of all hunters using the power cost book.

Originally Posted by Nelavor

And who uses the threatbook? If you want less threat, you dont change the books, you change stance.

Just one more indication (to me) that not one dev actually actively plays a hunter. never in the 3 years since i've been playing have i switched books (or used a consumable back in SoA) to reduce my threat. The threat reduction from it is just too little to make a difference if you suddenly need to reduce threat in a hurry, and not nearly enough to allow for S:S in a group situation. the only real option is to use S:P or S:E, making the threat reducing tomes utterly useless.

Originally Posted by RenamedFS

Just one more indication (to me) that not one dev actually actively plays a hunter. never in the 3 years since i've been playing have i switched books (or used a consumable back in SoA) to reduce my threat. The threat reduction from it is just too little to make a difference if you suddenly need to reduce threat in a hurry, and not nearly enough to allow for S:S in a group situation. the only real option is to use S:P or S:E, making the threat reducing tomes utterly useless.

TBH, on particularly sensitive fights (for example, first DN boss when level cap was still 60... when running 1 tank vs both, not so big a deal now), I would rock that for an earlier portion of the fight, then go ape poop nut-so later. And that was stacking it w/ S:P or S:E.

It's not that big a deal (IMHO, the threat legacies on our legendaries are utter and complete ****), but if you KNOW you might use S:E, then slotting graceful draw turns that -10 to -20, and then screw the -power book, put - threat, and build WAY less threat later for those threat-reset fights.




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TL;DR
-threat usually sucks